Bills trade for Nyheim Hines

[Mango]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

I cant wait until next Bills GDT where people freak out about his lack of use or a mistake 5 days after being traded.

 

Or maybe he will get the Sammy Watkins/Lee Evans "decoy" treatment. Like he might not produce, but he is the reason that everything else around him happens even. 

[Nitro]

41 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Not sure if this has been posted here. I always like to see how the other team feels about the trade. Colts fans seem pissed which is good

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/74316-hines-traded-to-the-bills/

Living here in Indy I am hearing from friends that are huge Colts fans.  They love Hines.   He was stuck behind Taylor and an under performing O line.  Moss was going no where in Buffalo.  Having another receiving threat makes the Bills more dangerous. 

[Bangarang]

I like Hines and what he offers. I’m disappointed that we needed to make this move after drafting Cook in the 2nd. It would have been nice if Cook was able to play the role of Hines as anticipated. 

[Buddo]

I like this pickup, as the guy adds more speed to the backfield.

 

I feel like he’s going to be a replacement for Moss, with added value from return ability, and the simple fact he hits holes quickly.

 

Looks like a solid upgrade imho, and at the end of the day, it’s all about improving the team - even if it doesn’t immediately look like by a whole bunch.

 

When you are good in the first instance, small improvements can often end up making a significant difference.

[UKBillFan]

Just now, Bangarang said:

I like Hines and what he offers. I’m disappointed that we needed to make this move after drafting Cook in the 2nd. It would have been nice if Cook was able to play the role of Hines as anticipated. 

 

He's got a very similar career record as McKissic; would have been interested to see if we would have still drafted Cook and possibly traded or cut Moss before the season had he not stayed with Washington.

[OldTimer1960]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wasn’t speaking on physical attributes.  More of a mental tool for 17.  Knowing that he has a guy on third down that can get open.  Diggs is often double teamed on 3rd.    Isaiah’s size limitations and past miscues hurts his reliability on 3rd down.  Hines is a guy that can get open quick, is a seasoned playmaker and will likely be matched up with someone slower than him.  A guy Josh can lean on on 3rd down.  
 

 

Well, you are right that McKenzie can't be trusted.  When I look at this receiver group it is 80% Diggs, 20% Davis and a bunch of nobodies.  I thought that Shakir would have gotten more opportunities by now, but the fact that he can't bump McKenzie from the lineup makes for a scary situation.  

[RiotAct]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's the Colts forum thread on the trade:

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/74316-hines-traded-to-the-bills/

 

They universally hate the trade and think Hines will be a great player for us.

this was pretty funny:

 

”Moss is a better RB than Hines.   Bigger and will be better as JTs backup and breather back.”

 

… who wants to break it to him? 🤣😬

[BillMafia716ix]

I don’t think this move does much for us this year but I could see him playing a bigger role next season when we move on from Motor. He’s going to be too expensive to bring back. 

[mikemac2001]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Well, you are right that McKenzie can't be trusted.  When I look at this receiver group it is 80% Diggs, 20% Davis and a bunch of nobodies.  I thought that Shakir would have gotten more opportunities by now, but the fact that he can't bump McKenzie from the lineup makes for a scary situation.  

We added a weapon at a cheap cost that’s how I look at this.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

He's got a very similar career record as McKissic; would have been interested to see if we would have still drafted Cook and possibly traded or cut Moss before the season had he not stayed with Washington.

I think Beane might’ve panicked and drafted Cook for the role he wanted instead of him being BPA. Pure speculation, obviously.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I like Hines and what he offers. I’m disappointed that we needed to make this move after drafting Cook in the 2nd. It would have been nice if Cook was able to play the role of Hines as anticipated. 

 

This has been said numerous times.  What are your reasons that Cook cannot be the RB1 next year?

If he happens to be able to do more as a receiver too, is that a bad thing?

Beane just needs to get a cheap, bigger back that can play some ST to round out the room.

[WotAGuy]

Good trade for the Colts.  They have a history of turning lemons to lemonade when it comes to RBs. Remember they made something out of the little known Eric Dickerson not too long ago. 

[Billz4ever]

More love of this trade from Colts fans, lol

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

Just now, mikemac2001 said:

We added a weapon at a cheap cost that’s how I look at this.

Hines is ok and can maybe be a better punt and kick returner than Bills currently have (though I thought Shakir was fine returning punts).  Is he any better than Cook or just more experienced?  For a team that doesn't run the ball much, another RB is an "interesting" acquisition.

 

Also, note that this team has zero RBs that could be described as "short-yardage" backs.   That is an area the team is pretty deficient in.

 

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

wow! you found one. Good job.

In the top 15 backs there are only 3 drafted after the 2nd round and none after the 4th.

Good players get drafted high for the most part. Tune in for more breaking news at 11.

 

The major point I was making (you skated) was that teams who intend to focus their offense on the run are the ones who are motivated to invest high draft picks in RBs, so there's a bit of circularity there - top RBs need lots of carries to become such, lots of carries come from run-first offenses, run first offenses draft RBs high.

 

But now I'm honestly puzzled what your criteria is for "top backs" and where you're looking, because when I look up top RB by yards, I find:

Chubb

Henry

Barkley

Jacobs

Jones - 5th round

Etienne

Sanders

Herbert -6th round

Cook

Stevenson - 4th round

Pierce  - 4th round

McCaffrey

Pollard - 4th round

Wilson - UDFA

Williams -4th round

 

That's 7 out of 15 drafted after the 2nd round, and 3 drafted after the 4th 🤷‍♂️. 

 

[mikemac2001]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Hines is ok and can maybe be a better punt and kick returner than Bills currently have (though I thought Shakir was fine returning punts).  Is he any better than Cook or just more experienced?  For a team that doesn't run the ball much, another RB is an "interesting" acquisition.

 

Also, note that this team has zero RBs that could be described as "short-yardage" backs.   That is an area the team is pretty deficient in.

 

Gilliam and Josh Allen 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

 

Also, note that this team has zero RBs that could be described as "short-yardage" backs.   That is an area the team is pretty deficient in.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, the Bills short yardage back is lined up under center taking snaps

[Airseven]

33 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I have no problem with the trade compensation, but I don't understand why the Bills would view Hines as better than Cook. 

 

Neither Singletary or Cook catch the ball all that often in this offense, and both Singletary and Cook are ~ 5 yards/carry back. 

 

 

 

Perhaps the Bills would view Hines as better than Cook because he's an established veteran with vastly more production and experience than Cook. Cook's numbers aren't relevant due to limited opportunities and when/how the Bills have used him (which doesn't inspire confidence at this point). Singletary and Cook may not catch the ball all that often in this offense because they aren't good at it. Hence...Hines.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Airseven

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Hines is ok and can maybe be a better punt and kick returner than Bills currently have (though I thought Shakir was fine returning punts).  Is he any better than Cook or just more experienced?  For a team that doesn't run the ball much, another RB is an "interesting" acquisition.

 

Also, note that this team has zero RBs that could be described as "short-yardage" backs.   That is an area the team is pretty deficient in.

 

He's more explosive than Cook, which I was a little surprised by. Higher vertical jump and quicker 40 and split times.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

32 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The difference is this is a great D scheme for a LB to shine 

 

This is not a running offense for a RB to shine.

 

 I don't think he's on same level of RB as Milano is for LBers. I think they have different goals and expectations of what they can be now and in the future at their positions. He's not going to get big money anyhow. 

 

That's why I think he takes less money to stay on a team of guys he loves and continue to play for a perennial Super Bowl contender.

 

 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

I am a little surprised they wanted Moss in the deal.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

This has been said numerous times.  What are your reasons that Cook cannot be the RB1 next year?

If he happens to be able to do more as a receiver too, is that a bad thing?

Beane just needs to get a cheap, bigger back that can play some ST to round out the room.

Cook hasn’t even been able to consistently get on the field as RB2 this year, though his usage is increasing slowly, so I’m not really thinking about him being RB 1 next year. 
 

If you take a RB in the 2nd then the goal should be having someone that can be your workhorse and not just someone that is in the game for 10 plays. I can’t imagine Cook’s usage is going to increase now. He’s now the clear odd man out in that RB room until next year. 

 

[Turk71]

Great move. Moss and Singletary are a lot alike and Singletary is running well, playing better. Hines has the highest catch rate among rbs 89% and is 6th in VOA when receiving. Good hands and good after the catch, one of the top pass catching backs is just what the team needs. Great move.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Turk71

[BillsFanForever19]

Just now, OldTimer1960 said:

Hines is ok and can maybe be a better punt and kick returner than Bills currently have (though I thought Shakir was fine returning punts).  Is he any better than Cook or just more experienced?  For a team that doesn't run the ball much, another RB is an "interesting" acquisition.

 

Also, note that this team has zero RBs that could be described as "short-yardage" backs.   That is an area the team is pretty deficient in.

 

James Cook showed improvement on Sunday - but he's still a work in progress who spent most of the year dropping passes. Nyheim Hines is a veteran who is one of the best receiving RB's in the league right now. He provides much more stability, especially if Devin Singletary we're to go down.

 

James Cook could become a star. But right now he's still acclimating to the game. He's been much more of a project than I or probably the team expected. McDermott implied he has just now started to practice the way he likes.

 

In Hines we get much more of a sure thing as we push towards a Championship right now.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The major point I was making (you skated) was that teams who intend to focus their offense on the run are the ones who are motivated to invest high draft picks in RBs, so there's a bit of circularity there - top RBs need lots of carries to become such, lots of carries come from run-first offenses, run first offenses draft RBs high.

 

But now I'm honestly puzzled what your criteria is for "top backs" and where you're looking, because when I look up top RB by yards, I find:

Chubb

Henry

Barkley

Jacobs

Jones - 5th round

Etienne

Sanders

Herbert -6th round

Cook

Stevenson - 4th round

Pierce  - 4th round

McCaffrey

Pollard - 4th round

Wilson - UDFA

Williams -4th round

 

That's 7 out of 15 drafted after the 2nd round, and 3 drafted after the 4th 🤷‍♂️. 

 

And that's all that's in the top 30.

I didn't skate your point. It's just wrong.

Edited November 1, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Cook hasn’t even been able to consistently get on the field as RB2 this year, though his usage is increasing slowly, so I’m not really thinking about him being RB 1 next year. 
 

If you take a RB in the 2nd then the goal should be having someone that can be your workhorse and not just someone that is in the game for 10 plays. I can’t imagine Cook’s usage is going to increase now. He’s now the clear odd man out in that RB room until next year. 

 

 

 But, the same thing was done by McDermott with Singletary his rookie year. Until about the 2nd half of the year.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

I am a little surprised they wanted Moss in the deal.

Seems like a salary dump for them and they just took him to fill a roster spot 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Cook hasn’t even been able to consistently get on the field as RB2 this year, though his usage is increasing slowly, so I’m not really thinking about him being RB 1 next year. 
 

If you take a RB in the 2nd then the goal should be having someone that can be your workhorse and not just someone that is in the game for 10 plays. I can’t imagine Cook’s usage is going to increase now. He’s now the clear odd man out in that RB room until next year. 

 

 

Maybe you are not thinking about next year.  That doesn't mean Beane isn't.  Doesn't this also protect the RB room now in case of injury?

Were you one of the few confident in Moss taking over a larger role?

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

I am a little surprised they wanted Moss in the deal.

Beane: "I can give you a conditional 6th Rounder and Zack Moss."

 

Ballard: "If it's OK with you, we'll just take the draft pick, thanks."

 

LOL

 

In all seriousness though, there's colts fans on their board who actually like this trade and say Moss is better than Hines.

 

Sounds like a coping mechanism to me, but hey...whatever.

[frostbitmic]

If we were trading Moss to the Colts, why didn't we at least trade him for Jonathan Taylor ?

[Warcodered]

54 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think the BetMGM twitter guy is a Bills fan. 😂

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Gilliam and Josh Allen 

 

Have we ever used Gilliam as a short yardage back in the regular season?

 

Seems I've seen it in preseason some.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

This has been said numerous times.  What are your reasons that Cook cannot be the RB1 next year?

If he happens to be able to do more as a receiver too, is that a bad thing?

Beane just needs to get a cheap, bigger back that can play some ST to round out the room.

 

Not to stray too far, but what is the deal with Cook? I’ve heard he made a sour face when the Bills drafted him, and he’s maybe not a great practice player. Is there an attitude problem? I expected him to be brought along slowly to avoid putting Josh in danger, But I did expect a little more by now. (Though he seems to be progressing now.) Maybe my expectations were unreasonable? Has he been a good soldier and done all the right things? 

 

Is there something to this, or am I making too much out of idle speculation?  I guess you need to look behind the scenes to know.   🤷‍♂️

2 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

If we were trading Moss to the Colts, why didn't we at least trade him for Jonathan Taylor ?

 

The trade deadline ended before Irsay could hit happy hour. Just bad timing. 

[Billz4ever]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:02 PM, frostbitmic said:

If we were trading Moss to the Colts, why didn't we at least trade him for Jonathan Taylor ?

Why would the Colts trade their starting RB for a dude we were just hoping someone would take off our hands?

 

It would take more than a 6th round conditional pick and Moss to get Taylor, and besides that, Beane said he got Hines for how he can fit in our offense and play in the slot, return kicks, etc.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

35 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Cook is averaging 5.5 ypc and 15 ypc on a handful of catches. 

 

So not sure how arrived at this conclusion. 

 

Cook was a 2nd Round pick, and outside of his fumble against the Rams, he looks like he belongs. 

 

In a vacuum, if you just made him the starter today, and gave him 14 carries like Singletary got against the Packers, I think he'd be fine. I think he'd average +4 ypc and look like an NFL player. 

 

I don't understand why the Bills are rolling Cook out so slowly. Congrats to them for figuring out Moss was useless, but Hines comes in and plays above Cook right away? Not sure the reasoning on this. 

Better route runner…Hines is pretty much a receiver 

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Well, you are right that McKenzie can't be trusted.  When I look at this receiver group it is 80% Diggs, 20% Davis and a bunch of nobodies.  I thought that Shakir would have gotten more opportunities by now, but the fact that he can't bump McKenzie from the lineup makes for a scary situation.  

The rams won the super bowl with a 80% Kupp.  I’m really only worried if Diggs gets hurt.  As long as we have him, we have a great chance regardless of the competition.  He’s better than ever.  

[Turk71]

I like the trade and I think Moss will be a decent rb and have a decent career in the NFL.

  The Bills already have a currently better version of him and Hines gives them something they were lacking.

Cook has caught only 63% of his targets, Hines leads the league at 89%.

[Billz4ever]

12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

James Cook showed improvement on Sunday - but he's still a work in progress who spent most of the year dropping passes. Nyheim Hines is a veteran who is one of the best receiving RB's in the league right now. He provides much more stability, especially if Devin Singletary we're to go down.

 

James Cook could become a star. But right now he's still acclimating to the game. He's been much more of a project than I or probably the team expected. McDermott implied he has just now started to practice the way he likes.

 

In Hines we get much more of a sure thing as we push towards a Championship right now.

According to Rotowire, Cook has 2 drops on the year.

 

Breece Hall has 3.

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Not to stray too far, but what is the deal with Cook? I’ve heard he made a sour face when the Bills drafted him, and he’s maybe not a great practice player. Is there an attitude problem? I expected him to be brought along slowly to avoid putting Josh in danger, But I did expect a little more by now. (Though he seems to be progressing now.) Maybe my expectations were unreasonable? Has he been a good soldier and done all the right things? 

 

Is there something to this, or am I making too much out of idle speculation?  I guess you need to look behind the scenes to know.   🤷‍♂️

 

 On one hand, practice habits were brought up when discussing why he became the #2 RB behind Singletary. But on the other, several players have mentioned throughout the year about the unbelievable plays he makes in practice. I don't get it was he a good practice player or not? Maybe he didn't have the playback down? That and learning how to pick up the blitz probably.

 

 

 

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This also a future move. Cook and Hines RB 1 and 2 next year.

 

Maybe the part of the trade I don't understand is how anyone could think Cook and Hines are the 1 and 2 next year.

Neither can play in short yardage or between the tackles situations, which, ya know, is important.