How valuable is Hyde really?

[Einstein]

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

[KingBoots8]

I don’t think anyone is trading for a guy who can’t be used for a year 🤷‍♂️

Edited October 26, 2022 by KingBoots8

[The Wiz]

Hyde is already under contract for next season.  Poyer isn't.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

 

Wait, you want to trade a guy missing the rest of the season due to neck surgery? That should go well. 

[Richard Noggin]

One could ask how valuable any of the guys in the secondary are on an individual basis, given what we've seen this season.

 

(I think Hyde is valuable, ftr)

Edited October 26, 2022 by Richard Noggin

[Warcodered]

I don't know I like having him around.

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

 So, so far this month I have learned we don't need Hyde or White. Learning alot this October.😂

 

 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Wait, you want to trade a guy missing the rest of the season due to neck surgery? That should go well. 

 

I asked if anyone thought it was possible, yes.

 

I have no doubt he will play next year for someone.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

more valuable then this thread, for sure!

[bigK14094]

Hyde has McD's confidence.  That is why he gets the big bucks.  Hamlin has been great ,and next year will be Hyde's last.  But, Hamlin likely will be gone the year after that.

[Big Turk]

You don't miss them...until you do. Eventually there will be a game where Hyde would have made a play Hamlin doesn't.

 

Just gotta hope it's not in the playoffs.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

more valuable then this thread, for sure!

I’m surprised he didn’t suggest trading Hyde for Bailey Zappe…

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I asked if anyone thought it was possible, yes.

 

I have no doubt he will play next year for someone.

 

You would get pennies on the dollar for what he’s worth. 

 

If I’m selling, I won’t want a bag of used balls for an All Pro level player. 

 

If I’m a buyer, I’m paying VERY little for a a guy coming off of neck surgery. Should be fine, but kind of a big deal. 

 

I sit put, at least until we know more. 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 So, so far this month I have learned we don't need Hyde or White. Learning alot this October.😂

 

 

You're wrong. We still need white, he just needs to play safety is all. 😆 

[HappyDays]

I figured out why your name is Einstein, it's because your threads are black holes.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

You would get pennies on the dollar for what he’s worth. 

 

If I’m selling, I won’t want a bag of used balls for an All Pro level player. 

 

If I’m a buyer, I’m paying VERY little for a a guy coming off of neck surgery. Should be fine, but kind of a big deal. 

 

I sit put, at least until we know more. 

 

I respect where you’re coming from.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

This is a good point. It is becoming clearer to me that the scheme we run here may have contributed to the success of our safeties (and corners.). 
 

hyde and Poyer are great, and they are always around the ball And are very opportunistic.  But you have to remember that both these guys were late draft picks and mostly backups until they got here. 
 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Tre White hasn’t played either…does that mean he’s not valuable?

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I figured out why your name is Einstein, it's because your threads are black holes.

Two things are infinite. The Universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the universe. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Tre White hasn’t played either…does that mean he’s not valuable?

 

We have to wait and see if the defense improves with his arrival.

 

If it doesn’t, well…

 

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is a good point. It is becoming clearer to me that the scheme we run here may have contributed to the success of our safeties (and corners.). 
 

hyde and Poyer are great, and they are always around the ball And are very opportunistic.  But you have to remember that both these guys were late draft picks and mostly backups until they got here. 

 

Thank you.

 

.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Einstein

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, The Wiz said:

You're wrong. We still need white, he just needs to play safety is all. 😆 

 

 Oh no. This was someone openly questioning whether we should trade Tre because the rookies are playing so well.

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

Very. Why settle For average when you can have better

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Very. Why settle For average when you can have better

 

I’m assuming you are not a marriage counselor. 

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Oh no. This was someone openly questioning whether we should trade Tre because the rookies are playing so well.

 

 

Oh, so it was some other "Einstein" that suggested moving Tre to safety.  I got it now.

[HappyDays]

Just now, Einstein said:

We have to wait and see if the defense improves with his arrival.

 

No, we don't. Other than QB even the most elite players in the league are worth about 0.5 points in the Vegas odds. Fans vastly overrate the impact of a single player. But that doesn't mean you don't need elite players. Hyde and White aren't great players because they singlehandedly take the defense from 20 PPG to 15 PPG, they're great because they make game changing plays in critical moments and make very few mistakes.

[gtw3]

I get where you are coming from OP and you could make the same argument about Tre.  The fact that we are even having a discussion about it speaks to how well our coaching staff does with the DBs in the locker room.  

 

At the end of the day, I believe two things to be true -    White would've made a difference in that KC game & Likely no other safety intercepts that pass from Jones in the Patriots game.   

 

White and Hyde are both all-pro caliber players that make a difference on every play.  

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

15 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is a good point. It is becoming clearer to me that the scheme we run here may have contributed to the success of our safeties (and corners.). 
 

hyde and Poyer are great, and they are always around the ball And are very opportunistic.  But you have to remember that both these guys were late draft picks and mostly backups until they got here. 
 

 

 

 If that was the case I'm pretty sure Beane would've let them walk and not given them hefty pay raises. I'm sure he knows both scheme and what players are needed to run it.

 

 With how tight we are on cap space, if he could've let them walk and used the money on another marquee player or two, he would've done so in a second.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Nephilim17]

I have no doubts as to Hyde's value. I'm just concerned about extending a couple of great safeties who will both be 32 next season.

 

Saving $4 million but taking a $7 million hit to ditch Hyde means you need to find a player as good for less than $4 million to make that a good move; it's not gonna happen. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Pretty *****in' valuable.  Slow your roll, boot.

[Mojo44]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

Purely speculative and not at all empirical. How do you know that the defense wouldn’t have been even better with Hyde playing?  You don’t because you can’t know that.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mojo44

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, we don't. Other than QB even the most elite players in the league are worth about 0.5 points in the Vegas odds. Fans vastly overrate the impact of a single player. But that doesn't mean you don't need elite players. Hyde and White aren't great players because they singlehandedly take the defense from 20 PPG to 15 PPG, they're great because they make game changing plays in critical moments and make very few mistakes.

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

[DCofNC]

10 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I have no doubts as to Hyde's value. I'm just concerned about extending a couple of great safeties who will both be 32 next season.

 

Saving $4 million but taking a $7 million hit to ditch Hyde means you need to find a player as good for less than $4 million to make that a good move; it's not gonna happen. 

You can designate him a post June 1 cut and that Dead cap is 3.5 for next year and 2024.  Or you can convert his base to signing bonus, then add a couple of voidable years to his contract, allowing the hit to be kicked down the line.

[Mojo44]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

This is not the most relevant Criterion to assess the quality of his play. Frankly, given your chosen screen name, I thought you would know that.

[US Egg]

Well, its not a ‘what if’ thread. 🫤

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

39 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is a good point. It is becoming clearer to me that the scheme we run here may have contributed to the success of our safeties (and corners.). 
 

hyde and Poyer are great, and they are always around the ball And are very opportunistic.  But you have to remember that both these guys were late draft picks and mostly backups until they got here. 
 

 

Poyer (and Hyde to a lesser extent) is a ball hawk unlike the guys we have backing them up. Turnovers win games. Some guys just have a knack for it. Poyer has 4 picks. How many does Hamlin or Johnson have? And who cares that they were backups? Players can’t improve themselves and fit better in a different system / scheme? Hamlin & Johnson are serviceable, but Poyer & Hyde have single-handedly won us games. Our front 7 is among the best in the league and I want my safeties to take full advantage of every forced throw, tipped pass, etc. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Ya Digg?]

42 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I’m surprised he didn’t suggest trading Hyde for Bailey Zappe…

I’ve heard if you also add in Moss and a 5th teams are just lining up to give you their best players!

[Dablitzkrieg]

Another beautiful thread

[Beast]

If the playoffs were to start today and Micah Hyde was healthy, I would have no doubt that the Bills would be raising their first Lombardi trophy in February.

 

That’s how valuable I believe he is.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Beast

[K-9]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

Is this the extent of your understanding of how various players can impact games? Because if it is, then I think you have a lot to learn. For instance, how many game changing plays has Hyde made by changing a QB’s pre or post snap decision? How many routes has he altered? How many times has an offense had to settle for less simply because Hyde didn’t give it any thing more? 
 

Players like Hyde impact games in numerous ways that don’t show up on a stat sheet. 

[MasterStrategist]

54 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

It's an interesting topic, really about how and what will provide most value on this team with available cap space.

 

It goes without saying that Micah is an allpro player and leader/person.  However, the way our defense operates (and ability for our coaches to scheme success for our secondary), I still think the front 4 (and LBs) is where to put the $$.  

 

1. Von and improved DT play: this has more than replaced the loss of Micah, and if I'm building a team I continue to put the $ into this front 4.

 

2. LB play (and Taron): Milano and Tremaine have been outstanding, not many better duos in the NFL...especially important for a team playing nickle.  Taron Johnsons won't stand out on stats, but he's having a great year, consistent in coverage and tackling.

 

Beane has put alot of resources into the DL in past years, this year seems to finally be the one that's paying off.  Going forward, you keep the focus there and giving Josh more weapons/improved OL.  As much as it's nice to have a duo of all pro safeties, QB DE WR CB OL will continue to be the most critical/inpactful positions.