Do you really want a rookie Offensive Coordinator ?

[GaryPinC]

19 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

If you like gambling, sure

It's a gamble no matter who you choose. 

 

We also don't know what, if any, opportunities they gave Dorsey this past season to groom him for the job.  

 

We don't know what kind of coordinator  Josh needs, and if Josh is going to play a larger role in calling his own plays.

 

We do know Josh really likes Dorsey and endorses him.

 

An experienced coordinator may be stuck in his own ways and could fail badly.

 

I'm going to trust the FO and Josh to make the best choice for them.  I think McD more then realizes the weapon he has in JA and isn't looking to go ultra conservative  anymore.

[Max Fischer]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

 

Its less of a gamble IF the Head Coach has OC experience , McD does not, JMO

That “might” be true but there is little evidence it is true in this case. Also, we have no idea whether Daboll truly succeeds without McDermott’s leadership and input. 

[stevewin]

What I care about is continuity and keeping Josh comfortable.  The new OC needs to understand it is not about him or his scheme, it is about Josh and making/keeping him successful.  If I'm McD the requirement for the new OC is work with Josh and implement the things he is most comfortable with

Edited January 29, 2022 by stevewin

[MrEpsYtown]

A rookie OC who is already in the program is okay. A rookie OC from outside is a no from me dawg. 

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

Dorsey was a 2 time Heisman finalist with Miami. He has been a performance coach with IMG, similar to what Palmer does.

 

from 2013-2018 Dorsey was the QB coach in Carolina. (Newton's 3rd year) This time frame correlated with Cam Newton improving and earning MVP honors in 2015.

 

On March 26, 2018, Dorsey was hired to serve as the assistant director of athletics for the sports program at Florida International University effective April 2018. Former Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton was quoted as saying "He'll bring a newness and spark to FIU. Not only is he a hard worker, but he has a vibrant killer instinct. He's a known proven winner over the years."

 

in 2019 Dorsey was brought in as Buffalo QB coach for Allen's second year. A year later Allen was a top 5 selection for NFL MVP.

 

He is a proven QB coach. 1 MVP and a runner up. He clearly has a 'type' he is successful with. He has been an assistant to Mike Shula and Daboll, two very good OC minds.

 

I think we forget that prior to this season Dorsey was promoted to passing game coordinator/ QB coach. The passing game took a few games to adjust, but ended with Allen's nearly perfect game vs Hoodie and the Pats, and another spectacular performance against KC.

 

I fully believe the promotion to passing game coordinator/ QB coach was to keep Dorsey in house, and to give him more OC responsibilities and groom him for this opportunity.

 

my 2 cents

[gjv001]

I'm hoping that Dorsey is an outstanding Offense Coordinator just waiting for his opportunity. Would very much like to see the Bills promoting from within because the best candidate for OC is already on the payroll.

[HOUSE]

1 minute ago, gjv001 said:

I'm hoping that Dorsey is an outstanding Offense Coordinator just waiting for his opportunity. Would very much like to see the Bills promoting from within because the best candidate for OC is already on the payroll.

 

Oh boy...

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

Dorsey is the only first timer I look at simply due to the familiarity with Josh, the offense, the scheme and the fact he was a really freaking good college qb (makes me feel better at last that he understands game flow and the game from the qb position, which I feel is important.

 

After him my list and I feel McDs and Beane's is to look at experience and candidates who have at least been to a superbowl and played in those situations. Not only do the players need it, but that experience is necessary with the coaching staff too...

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

 

..

Lol you think they are going to hire someone who never coached at any level before?

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

Hire the best guy, experience as an OC is not required, eliminating that entire population would be a mistake.

Experience is required, this person will be the HC of the offense Dorsey is the only young unproven guy who gets a look for the obvious reasons...

 

There person they hire needs to understand our scheme as well and not be a WC only guy or such either. They need to understand who we are, how we are built, lean on what works and expand with what fits us. 

[ProcessTruster]

9 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

Dorsey was a 2 time Heisman finalist with Miami. He has been a performance coach with IMG, similar to what Palmer does.

 

from 2013-2018 Dorsey was the QB coach in Carolina. (Newton's 3rd year) This time frame correlated with Cam Newton improving and earning MVP honors in 2015.

 

On March 26, 2018, Dorsey was hired to serve as the assistant director of athletics for the sports program at Florida International University effective April 2018. Former Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton was quoted as saying "He'll bring a newness and spark to FIU. Not only is he a hard worker, but he has a vibrant killer instinct. He's a known proven winner over the years."

 

in 2019 Dorsey was brought in as Buffalo QB coach for Allen's second year. A year later Allen was a top 5 selection for NFL MVP.

 

He is a proven QB coach. 1 MVP and a runner up. He clearly has a 'type' he is successful with. He has been an assistant to Mike Shula and Daboll, two very good OC minds.

 

I think we forget that prior to this season Dorsey was promoted to passing game coordinator/ QB coach. The passing game took a few games to adjust, but ended with Allen's nearly perfect game vs Hoodie and the Pats, and another spectacular performance against KC.

 

I fully believe the promotion to passing game coordinator/ QB coach was to keep Dorsey in house, and to give him more OC responsibilities and groom him for this opportunity.

 

my 2 cents

yep.  getter done McD

[gonzo1105]

We have Josh Allen, we will be fine regardless of who is hired as OC. 

[Reed83HOF]

38 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

“Bills pass on McDermott and Beane, want a coach and GM with experience.”

 

It's a tad bit different now than back in 2017. We were the giants in 2017....

37 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

So you wanna keep recycling the same crop of fired head coaches and offensive coordinators because that’s all that’s left out there?

 

Bellicheck has the same record as Rex Ryan without Brady...

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

Oh boy...

But isn’t that the case of every hire? We hope it pays off but who knows if it does or not. Pederson was mentioned earlier in the thread but he eventually oversaw a dumpster fire in Philadelphia which tipped Wentz over the edge towards hatred of the guy - what if that happens with Josh? We hope it doesn’t.

 

As he has overseen the development of Josh and our offensive game I would be fine, more than happy, with Dorsey as OC. If he moves to the Giants then my pick would be Bill Musgrave. Either way, as long as Josh is involved in the process and 100% happy with the outcome, considering the limitations which may be in place such as Dorsey wanting to go, then I’m happy with that.

[Floydboy12]

If you can coach and teach the game experience is over rated. I’d certainly prefer a rookie who can do these things, than a retread who has bounced around the league getting hired and fired time and again because he’s a great “interview”. 

[HOUSE]

7 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Lol you think they are going to hire someone who never coached at any level before?

 

No, I never said that

[YoloinOhio]

45 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

S

Should Dorsey go to the Giants he will have the advantage of having the experience of Brian Daboll. Dorsey in Buffalo will have McD. Who was never an offensive coordinator. I like Dorsey, but it is a gamble

It is a bigger gamble for the Bills than the Giants because of the level of responsibility that he will have but I think they do have some idea of what he wiill do after promoting him to passing game coordinator. McDermott and Beane had him in Carolina and brought him here. I think an interesting hire if Dorsey is OC will be QB coach. Shea Tierney would be natural promotion but he’s a daboll guy, anticipate he and asst Ol coach Ryan Wendell go to NYG

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

 

No, I never said that

Then you have nothing to worry about. See, that was easy.

Edited January 29, 2022 by TBBills

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

 

..

I still remember the years after Kelly left where we thought having a big name coordinator made a difference on how our offence looked and performed..  End of the day it's all about the most important player on the field.  Allen is a top 2-3 player and QB in the NFL and he will make his next coordinator a lot of fame &  money.  So if Dorsey leaves the Bills will have plenty of options.

[ProcessTruster]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

Maybe Chad Hall the WR's coach could be the guy.

don't laugh, he may end up getting Dorsey's passing game coord job if Dorsey is OC.. the players absolutely love that guy

[Bookie Man]

I’d be ok with KD as a first time OC. Continuity is a good thing and KD seems like a bright mind and held in high regards. But it’s looking like he will be gone. I would just hope that Josh has a strong say in the hire. 

[Rockinon]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....Should I run or pass, how about a trick play, OMG !

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

 

..

A new OC may want to make a bunch of changes and then the players themselves would have the learning curve instead of the OC. An in house promotion would allow the players to hit the ground running. Not saying this is the best option, because hiring experience has advantages too. Going to be interesting to see which way they go. I think I am actually leaning toward an experienced OC because the offense took half the season to figure out how to defeat two deep safeties. They did, but a different perspective on offensive game planning may actually be a good thing.

[PrimeTime101]

Lets be realistic here... You can plug and play Josh Allen into just about any system and he is going to excel. 

 

I would not mind grabbing a guy like Frank Smith, Chargers OL, RB coach. His time is due and think he would do well here.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

28 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

No, I never said that

Think outside the box, man!  

[Sweats]

This is interesting cause i just brought this up the other day and oh, how i was the worst poster ever in the history of these boards cause of the meandering topic.

 

These boards are a fickle place.........a fickle place indeed.

[Rigotz]

1. Josh wants Dorsey.

2. Beane wants to promote from within.

3. Dorsey will run a similar system to Daboll.

4. Dorsey already knows all the players on offense, their skills, and the playbook.

 

Whether you like it or want it or not, it’s happening. Could we possibly upgrade and get a genius? Yes, but who says Dorsey isn’t that genius? And anybody coming in doesn’t know the players, coaches, playbook, etc., so it’s MORE risky to go with someone external.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Fellas fellas we all need to relax just like Mr Rodgers would say. 
 

Hof caliber QBs don’t need great coordinators never have never will. We’ve seen every great QB have multiple OC’s during there careers and they don’t skip a beat. MOF I think it’s the QB that makes the coordinators not the other way around. Just look at Nathaniel Hackett he was fired by the Jags then he goes to the Packers and now he’s a head coach. Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Brees , Favre, Kelly, Marino etc etc all had multiple OC’s during there HOF careers let’s just relax and see what King Maker Josh gets another OC hired within a couple of yrs to be a head coach.

[eball]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Where’s @The Senator these days, banging the drum for Mike Leach?

 

Ok, so I feel like crap now.  Apparently The Senator is no longer with us, which saddens me.  RIP.

 

Now, McD, go get Mike Leach.

 

20-0, baby!!!!!!!!

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Fellas fellas we all need to relax just like Mr Rodgers would say. 
 

Hof caliber QBs don’t need great coordinators never have never will. We’ve seen every great QB have multiple OC’s during there careers and they don’t skip a beat. MOF I think it’s the QB that makes the coordinators not the other way around. Just look at Nathaniel Hackett he was fired by the Jags then he goes to the Packers and now he’s a head coach. Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Brees , Favre, Kelly, Marino etc etc all had multiple OC’s during there HOF careers let’s just relax and see what King Maker Josh gets another OC hired within a couple of yrs to be a head coach.

yep.  And this is why if the Bills offer Dorsey the OC position he’s staying.  It’s all about the QB.  

[HOUSE]

24 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Think outside the box, man!  

 

Would you hire a young in experienced guy to fix your car, or would you choose a guy that has been working on cars for 20 years?

 

Just saying

[NastyNateSoldiers]

16 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

1. Josh wants Dorsey.

2. Beane wants to promote from within.

3. Dorsey will run a similar system to Daboll.

4. Dorsey already knows all the players on offense, their skills, and the playbook.

 

Whether you like it or want it or not, it’s happening. Could we possibly upgrade and get a genius? Yes, but who says Dorsey isn’t that genius? And anybody coming in doesn’t know the players, coaches, playbook, etc., so it’s MORE risky to go with someone external.

I agree let’s promote Dorsey and on the defensive side of the ball fire Frazier and hire a DC like Zimmer or Fangio. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

20 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

1. Josh wants Dorsey.

2. Beane wants to promote from within.

3. Dorsey will run a similar system to Daboll.

4. Dorsey already knows all the players on offense, their skills, and the playbook.

 

Whether you like it or want it or not, it’s happening. Could we possibly upgrade and get a genius? Yes, but who says Dorsey isn’t that genius? And anybody coming in doesn’t know the players, coaches, playbook, etc., so it’s MORE risky to go with someone external.

Might not happen. What if Dorsey values his relationship with Daboll and wants to prove he can develop another quarterback. Not saying it’s Daniel Jones, but Dorsey might see this as an opportunity to prove himself verse staying with Josh and having his coaching skills diminished by the skills of Josh the player. Just a thought and I could be wrong.

[HOUSE]

I can live with any decision made, I prefer a guy who has seen it all, knows Bellichick  & Andy Reids tendencies .

 

We shall see...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

Would you hire a young in experienced guy to fix your car, or would you choose a guy that has been working on cars for 20 years?

 

Just saying

I’m in my early 60s.  A guy with only 20 years experience is a whipper snapper and I don’t ascribe to the newfangled ways. 
 

I would like to see Dorsey in the role, but that’s based more of the perception that JA seems to want him in the role.  I think at times these assumptions about relationships and who the natural fit is can be overstated.   
 

For example, I don’t really have any idea if JA truly wants him as OC. I think he does, but don’t think I would know if he didn’t.   Josh seems like a loyal guy.   I don’t know if Dorsey prefers to be OC in Buff, or maybe he’s appreciative of the experience but he wants to live near NYC.  
 

So, end of the day, I ride the wave, hoping the Bills and Josh get who they want. Good for Dabol in ascending to coach of the NYG, great story for a local guy.  If Dorsey “chooses” the Giants over the Buffalo opportunity, I’m reminded of the fable of the bird taken in and nursed back to health. If the bird loves you, set it free.  If it comes back to you, it was meant to be.   If it does not, you go total slash and burn until you find that bird and make it pay for it’s traitorous ways.  

[Mat68]

35 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

1. Josh wants Dorsey.

2. Beane wants to promote from within.

3. Dorsey will run a similar system to Daboll.

4. Dorsey already knows all the players on offense, their skills, and the playbook.

 

Whether you like it or want it or not, it’s happening. Could we possibly upgrade and get a genius? Yes, but who says Dorsey isn’t that genius? And anybody coming in doesn’t know the players, coaches, playbook, etc., so it’s MORE risky to go with someone external.

I wouldnt want Buffalo forced to pull the trigger Dorsey before looking at all options.  Is he a top choice? Yes.  Would I be comfortable with replacing Daboll without looking at other options? No I would not.
 

Buffalo is the best Oc job in the league.  Defensive coach so have full control of offense.  You have a full developed qb still not in his prime who can make every throw.  Find the best offensive mind and play caller.  What can they bring to the offense? 

[T master]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....Should I run or pass, how about a trick play, OMG !

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

 

..

 

I'm glad you weren't in on the meetings to choose a HC if so we may have a Fangio or Culley i said that because you don't know what a rookie OC can bring to a team there may be a entire new look or way of going about certain situations .

 

Lokk at what Matt Lafluer brought to Green Bay then there is Zac Taylor for the Bengals & our own McD all of them were rookie HC's & they have had their teams playing at championship levels .

 

I believe that given what Dorcey has been through in his career doing what he did on the field then moving to his place & situations on  Carolina going to the lay offs and now being behind Dabol for 2 seasons and not only learning by watching Dabol but also continuing to develop with Josh .

 

He's called plays on the field and on the sidelines if we don't think that he did;t have any input on some of the play calls and what Josh needed to look for in this situation in game and did nothing but told Josh how to throw the ball i think we are trying to fool our self .

 

So what OC out there can beyond a shadow of a doubt if hired can guarantee they will bring a SB to Buffalo none of them can sure experience speaks volumes but neither McD or Beane had been in their respective positions until they came here & they have turned this franchise around completely Oh by the way neither did Marv .

 

So i'm hoping that Dorsey gets his chance he could be just a piece of the puzzle we won't know & if he isn't given the chance we will never know i will leave that to Beane & McD to decide .

[Gunner]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

I just put this in the Dorsey thread, and I think it has strong relevance here. I tend to agree with you House, we do not want any experiments or unknown quantities. Furthermore . . .

 

"If Dorsey does move on, I wonder (worry a bit) how that affects Josh Allen?

 

Exhibit A: I am reminded of the quick downward spiral of the Texans when they did not hire the guy Watson wanted. I realize there were a bunch of other factor there, but my point is that you want the organization to do everything they can to keep your star player's emotional psyche in balance. Allen has alway talked about how Daboll was more than a Coach to him. It appears (from the outside) he has a similar relationship with Dorsey. I worry how it will affect him if both go.

 

Exhibit B: Green Bay. Aaron Rodgers is uber talented, but it appears (by the results) that his on-the-edge psyche, along with his abrasive personality, does not play well on his teammates over the course of a long season. It seems the Packer have done everyhting wrong in keep him happy and content, and the team has paid for it.

 

I think Allen is built on a much stronger platform than these two examples, but I do not want the Bills to test that either. I do hope McDermott and Beane are serious when they discussed that Josh would be involved in the process. He has to be fully on board with whatever they end up doing."

 

My Point: Whomever it is, they have to connect fast and well with #17.

 

 

If Green Bay being the number one seed in the NFC is "The team paying for it" then its working well.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Gunner said:

If Green Bay being the number one seed in the NFC is "The team paying for it" then its working well.

Are you @GunnerBill and got banned, or are you just ruining my life with the same name and color?

[Protocal69]

All I want from the next OC is for him to still run and have experience with the Ernhart-Perkins offense that Daboll ran. I like the flexible of the play calling and personal packages that it allows you to have.

[ArtVandalay]

3 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Now is not the time to fool around with an experiment hoping the next guy can do the job. This is a high powered offense and defenses around the NFL will come up with new strategy to stop it. There is a learning curve here, do you have the necessary  patience ?

Sure you do.....😁, We are a very forgiving bunch here....

 

Enter a rookie OC.....Should I run or pass, how about a trick play, OMG !

 

 

Sorry Guys, I want an experienced OC with a proven track record. The Next guy needs to be an upgrade over Daboll, not a settled for rookie

 

Time is wasting away, the window won't be open forever...Rookie coaches are for expansion teams or bottom feeders, not a Superbowl Contender

 

 

..

Dorsey, could be a great hire. He's our passing game coordinator, it appears he been groomed for the role. Allen himself said his career changed with his arrival. 

 

My main concern is keeping continuity with the EP offense.  There's not so many experienced EP Coordinators out there for hire,  maybe Bill O'Brien.