If Dorsey leaves then what?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Bills have prepped for whatever is happening.

 

Ever notice there is a ton of conjecture about coaching moves and it falls out however it falls out?  
 

Deals have been made across the board behind the scenes.  New HC’a don’t take jobs workout assurances of whom will be their coordinators.  Info that is most likely shared with the new team.

 

Agsin, McDermott had prepared for this and had a guy on the hook already.  

 

New HCs talk to guys they want about possibilities.  And for sure, "what are your thoughts on who you'd like for OC and DC?" is part of the interview process.  It's much easier now that lower-tier assistants who are under contract can't be blocked from interviewing for OC jobs. 

 

But there's no way they can have "assurances" going in who will be their coordinators, because there are a lot of moving parts.  What if the guy gets an offer he likes better?  There's no way a young assistant looking for a step is going to promise "I will work for you and only you and tell everyone else to F off" because what if "you" doesn't get the HC job or a better job opens up?

 

I do agree that McDermott has prepared and he and Beane have a "short list", but I don't agree they "had a guy on the hook already"

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

Bills would have to grant permission for him to seek another job. That would speak to what McD thinks of his future.

 

I don't believe that is true if another job includes a promotion.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, NoSaint said:

ive said it a few times: what if he’s not sure he’s 100% fully ready for full control? 
 

maybe having extra support is appealing to him as a first time OC

Who knows, could be bigger pay day might be more important. We'll see soon enough

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

ive said it a few times: what if he’s not sure he’s 100% fully ready for full control?

maybe having extra support is appealing to him as a first time OC

 

That extra support is a "blessing and a curse".  The same extra support that might be reassuring at first, is going to lead to him being perceived as not fully the OC, as standing in the HC offensive shadow, right about when he's ready to take his step.

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't believe that is true if another job includes a promotion.

 

You're correct and I just learned this tonight.  An assistant can not be blocked from interviewing for the OC or DC position with another team.

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, bills6969 said:

Bill O’Brien?

Agreed.

 

People can say what they want about O’Brien but Deshaun Watson developed rather nicely under him in Houston. He also runs the same offense we’re running now. Coached under Belichick and Saban.. Sound familiar? Way more polished as a coach than Daboll ever was, much better credentials too.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That extra support is a "blessing and a curse".  The same extra support that might be reassuring at first, is going to lead to him being perceived as not fully the OC, as standing in the HC offensive shadow, right about when he's ready to take his step.

 

You're correct and I just learned this tonight.  An assistant can not be blocked from interviewing for the OC or DC position with another team.

right but if he isn’t actually ready, going solo isn’t a fast track to long term career growth either. It’s not always a sprint to create a successful path.

 

we will see where it goes but I think there are a lot of considerations beyond “he doesn’t like McD” that could be in play

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Marcia...his retirement is “imminent”

[davefan66]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

New HCs talk to guys they want about possibilities.  And for sure, "what are your thoughts on who you'd like for OC and DC?" is part of the interview process.  It's much easier now that lower-tier assistants who are under contract can't be blocked from interviewing for OC jobs. 

 

But there's no way they can have "assurances" going in who will be their coordinators, because there are a lot of moving parts.  What if the guy gets an offer he likes better?  There's no way a young assistant looking for a step is going to promise "I will work for you and only you and tell everyone else to F off" because what if "you" doesn't get the HC job or a better job opens up?

 

I do agree that McDermott has prepared and he and Beane have a "short list", but I don't agree they "had a guy on the hook already"

I believe they have guys who agree to come on as the new OC before the old one leaves.  They may even have the blessing of the outgoing coach.

 

I also believe they have guys they vetted and offers before they fire.  Just like most Fortune 500 companies do.

 

That’s how those who are good, stay good.

[NoSaint]

19 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Who knows, could be bigger pay day might be more important. We'll see soon enough

Hell, could be their wives are best friends and he likes Broadway plays a lot. 
 

just was seeing a lot of fans harping on it being an indictment of our HC if he leaves. There are plenty of very reasonable, and less reasonable possibilities that don’t speak ill of Buffalo or McD though. 

[Paul Costa]

If Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it’s pretty obvious he’s not ready. If he was ,the decision is a no brainer. If your not ready for prime time stay by daddy’s side so he can help you if you get in trouble. He’s doing us a favor. Be happy. Bring Joe Brady in and let’s move on. No one knows how good Dorsey even is. A lot of speculation because JA17 & him are buds. 

[jahnyc]

I guess it depends on what Dorsey wants.  If he wants to be a HC at some point, staying with the Bills and working with Josh Allen seems the way to go, similar to Daboll's path, because Josh is about the best contributor to potential success an OC can have.  If he has a strong relationship with Daboll and/or wants out of Buffalo as a place to live, then he will leave.  Job security should be somewhat similar if tied to the job security of his head coach since McDermott is safe for the foreseeable future and Daboll should get at least two, if not three years with the Giants to prove he is the right coach for the team.

 

One wild card here is what is Dorsey's relationship like with McDermott?  Do we know anything about how McDermott gets along with the coaches on his coaching staff?  Also have seen reports that our assistant QB coach and assistant o-line coach may be going with Daboll.  That would be a bit of a problem if our OC, QB coach and assistant QB coach all leave at the same time.

[gobills1212]

24 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Agreed.

 

People can say what they want about O’Brien but Deshaun Watson developed rather nicely under him in Houston. He also runs the same offense we’re running now. Coached under Belichick and Saban.. Sound familiar? Way more polished as a coach than Daboll ever was, much better credentials too.

After hearing what BOB did in Houston to put himself in position for the Pats job while employed there in the book Its Better To Be Feared... thats not someone who seems to fit w what they have going on here. Dude sounds like a bit of a tool and Me First type of cat

Edited January 29, 2022 by gobills1212

[Donuts and Doritos]

Wondering if the Beane got outplayed here? Giants may have already fulfilled all the interview requirements (under the guise of a head coaching search) that will take the Bills days to complete & can offer Dorsey the job & $ now. Bit concerning.

[Malazan]

1 minute ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Wondering if the Beane got outplayed here? Giants may have already fulfilled all the interview requirements (under the guise of a head coaching search) that will take the Bills days to complete & can offer Dorsey the job & $ now. Bit concerning.

 

I think your jump to conclusions mat is broken. 

[McBean]

At this point, I’d love to see Pederson.

 

Guy is a winner. Brass balls. Beat the GOAT in the Super Bowl with Nick freakin Foles.

 

Also, would love to see him take over potentially as HC whenever the inevitable happens with McClappy.

 

I doubt our horrible HC will want Pederson tho because he doesn’t want to feel the heat from a former super bowl winning HC underneath him on Staff.

Edited January 29, 2022 by McBean

[Ross Murdock]

This is silly. It's Dorsey's job period. Josh wants him, McD has raved about him, He was a decent QB in the NFL, a two-time Heisman Trophy finalist with Miami, worked with Cam Newton in Carolina (When he was good). OC is the next logical step for him. The announcement will come next Monday/Tuesday. Dropping these other names is a waste of time... Chill.  

 

OK - I'll play the game. If Dorsey leaves, and decides to the Montreal Alouettes,  Let's bring back Kay Stephenson as OC. He did wonders with Joe Ferguson and Joe Cribbs, plus he was the head coach when they drafted Jim Kelly. Unfortunately, Jim decided to go to the Houston Gamblers instead of play for Kay. He also changed the Bills helmets from white to red. Plus he's still alive! This is as good of a choice as the sorry retreads I've seen mentioned here.        

 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, ctk232 said:

Not only this - which is why this thread is a bit silly - but it's more likely the Bills would block the move and appoint him OC if they wanted to keep him. This FO's policy has been to block horizontal moves in the past so likely Dorsey wouldn't even get the choice if they wanted to keep him for OC.

if they make him OC/Associate Head Coach it's not a lateral.

4 minutes ago, McBean said:

At this point, I’d love to see Peterson.

 

Guy is a winner. Brass balls. Beat the GOAT in the Super Bowl with Nick freakin Foles.

 

Also, would love to see him take over potentially as HC whenever the inevitable happens with McClappy.

 

I doubt our horrible HC will want Peterson tho because he doesn’t want to feel the heat from a former super bowl winning HC underneath him on Staff.

Pederson's last year in Philly was an absolute trainwreck in every way.

 

And people who are saying Bill O'Brien are insane. O'Brien is a snake and I don't want him anywhere near here.

[Malazan]

6 minutes ago, McBean said:

At this point, I’d love to see Peterson.

 

Guy is a winner. Brass balls. Beat the GOAT in the Super Bowl with Nick freakin Foles.

 

Also, would love to see him take over potentially as HC whenever the inevitable happens with McClappy.

 

I doubt our horrible HC will want Peterson tho because he doesn’t want to feel the heat from a former super bowl winning HC underneath him on Staff.

 

You could have at least spelled his name right..

[Donuts and Doritos]

7 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

I think your jump to conclusions mat is broken. 

Don't think so. Have to interview minority candidates before making a hire. Per Sal's tweet below the Giants may have already fulfilled the interview requirements ahead of the Bills.

 

 

 

Bills are also interested in Dorsey as OC, see below: 

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10025270-nfl-rumors-ken-dorsey-eyed-by-giants-bills-for-oc-job-after-brian-dabolls-move.amp.html

 

Dorsey actively in contract talks with Giants to be their new GM, see below:

 

Giants Daily (@NYGDaily) Tweeted:

Bills QB coach Ken Dorsey is in negotiations with #Giants to become their offensive coordinator, per @Schultz_Report. Would be a huge addition. https://twitter.com/NYGDaily/status/1487213092316618752?s=20&t=TC_mN7gYw8efPjYiY2djDw

 

G.T Bobby Thompson (@BThomps81) Tweeted:

#Giants and Ken Dorsey are still working on a deal per source. Both sides want to get this done. https://twitter.com/BThomps81/status/1487244285619707905?s=20&t=pf9VjwxQVYrJirbU9l6pWA

 

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

Ken Dorsey has an agent.

 

id bet that agent is happy to tell people that there is an active bidding war.

 

I bet he’d be glad to say that no matter what was happening 

Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was his agent putting this out.

 

But it also wouldn’t surprise me if this guy is just throwing **** at the wall hoping it sticks.

Looking at some of his tweets, my guess is the latter.

 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

If reports that Dorsey also goes to the Giant become true then who would you like to see become our new offensive cordinator or new QB coach

Jordan Palmer. Had already has a great relationship with Josh. 

[NewEra]

We still have Josh Allen.  That’s what

[gobills404]

Hopefully someone from outside the organization. I don't like the idea of having a first time offensive coordinator with a defensive head coach.

[Real McClappy]

Josh Allen gets OC's head coaching jobs.

 

I get why people are "concerned" though. Just keep the balance of pass/run to 70/30 and we are good. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Real McNasty

[brianthomas]

1 hour ago, sirebors said:

I'm curious... If an offensive coordinator leaves... Is the playbook his to take? Or is it the property of the team? Or are they both allowed access to it? 

During the Hard Knocks where Anthony Lynn was head coach of the Chargers, the camera showed Lynn in his office & he had a shelf of playbooks from the BILLS there. So i'm guessing they keep them

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Jordan Palmer. Had already has a great relationship with Josh. 

 

How can I put this nicely?

 

Obviously, there will need to be a sound working relationship with mutual respect and good communication between Josh Allen and the new OC and new QB coach, whoever it may be.

 

But beyond that, I think it's far more important of the new offensive coordinator can draw up plays that effectively exploit our opponent's defense and let our players win.  Do that, and the great relationship will come.

 

Palmer shmalmer.  He has never been an NFL coach at any level.  No way would he be a sound choice at OC.

[Bubba Gump]

4 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Screw It; I'll do it!

 

So will I. How hard could it be. Me into Josh's helmet....."Hey Josh, do what you want". Couldn't be anymore easier. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

Josh Allen gets OC's head coaching jobs.

 

I get why people are "concerned" though. Just keep the balance of pass/run to 70/30 and we are good. 

 

Pass/run was 55/45 this season and 59/41 in 2020 so why would you want the shift?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Don't think so. Have to interview minority candidates before making a hire. Per Sal's tweet below the Giants may have already fulfilled the interview requirements ahead of the Bills.

 

 

 

How can I say this?  I respect Sal Capaccio, but I think this is Radicchio.  How would any assistant credibly believe they are being interviewed for an OC position without the HC hired and in the loop (part of the interview process)?

 

Likewise, if it were to come out as true that the Giants were negotiating a contract with one guy before interviewing their OC candidates, that would not be "in good faith".

 

Also the chap who claimed they were already hard at work drafting Dorsey's contract is now walking it back:

 

 

That's a bit of a step back from:

 

which is a substantial step back from:

 

So we've gone from "Daboll getting his wish to hire Dorsey as OC.  Dorsey currently in negotiations with Giants"

to "Bills want to retain Dorsey, Giants need big payday to swipe him"

to "Oh yeah, Giants need to interview two minority candidates from outside the organization before they can hire Dorsey, so Hold the Presses"

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I don’t think he has the experience to be OC (yet), but I do wonder if Davis Webb slides into the QB coach role next year. 

[ShakAttack]

At least this is the first thing to come up that kinda takes my mind off 13 Seconds 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[Bookie Man]

4 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Anyone who doesn't have orthodox or "old school" view on offensive play calling. I don't want to see runs on 1st and 2nd down in all situations or any of that run to open up the pass garbage. We need innovative. So Daboll but without the weird random onset run obsessions or strange need to get cute at times.

Are there honestly any OCs left that run on 1st and 2nd down in all situations? I can't think of any. I am on board with a dynamic running game. But definitely not run on 1st and 2nd all the time. 

[Real McClappy]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Pass/run was 55/45 this season and 59/41 in 2020 so why would you want the shift?

Cause we need it and Josh will lead us to the promise land Hap!  I swear that is the mix to win it all. If a new OC comes in here to run heavy we could be screwed. McD has to find that perfect balance if so.

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Don't think so. Have to interview minority candidates before making a hire. Per Sal's tweet below the Giants may have already fulfilled the interview requirements ahead of the Bills.

 

Yes, so.. your insanity that they got 'outmaneuvered' is silly. Dorsey wasn't the choice. 

[Doc Brown]

17 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

Yes, so.. your insanity that they got 'outmaneuvered' is silly. Dorsey wasn't the choice. 

Last Sunday at 8:30 I would've agreed with this and then 13 seconds happened.

[BillsMailman]

I vote Jim Kelly!

[UKBillFan]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How can I say this?  I respect Sal Capaccio, but I think this is Radicchio.  How would any assistant credibly believe they are being interviewed for an OC position without the HC hired and in the loop (part of the interview process)?

 

Likewise, if it were to come out as true that the Giants were negotiating a contract with one guy before interviewing their OC candidates, that would not be "in good faith".

 

Also the chap who claimed they were already hard at work drafting Dorsey's contract is now walking it back:

 

 

That's a bit of a step back from:

 

which is a substantial step back from:

 

So we've gone from "Daboll getting his wish to hire Dorsey as OC.  Dorsey currently in negotiations with Giants"

to "Bills want to retain Dorsey, Giants need big payday to swipe him"

to "Oh yeah, Giants need to interview two minority candidates from outside the organization before they can hire Dorsey, so Hold the Presses"

Maybe I’m cynical but I wouldn’t be surprised if Daboll had been tapped up and knew he was going pretty soon after Judge had been fired. 

[Nextmanup]

10 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I’m sure there are plenty of coaches around the league who would love to get their hands on Allen. 

I think there are a ton of posters here who would love to get their hands on Allen.

 

😂

[gonzo1105]

If not Dorsey or Hall, I’m on the Doug Pederson train. The problem with that is Pederson beat out McDermott for the Eagles job so is there some sort of ego getting in the way? 
 

If you look into the McDermott past, Mike Shula is a guy whether we want or not, there is a connection.  Same with Rob Chudzinski. Just a couple names. Hope they don’t go down this route but who knows 

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

If not Dorsey or Hall, I’m on the Doug Pederson train. The problem with that is Pederson beat out McDermott for the Eagles job so is there some sort of ego getting in the way? 
 

If you look into the McDermott past, Mike Shula is a guy whether we want or not, there is a connection.  Same with Rob Chudzinski. Just a couple names. Hope they don’t go down this route but who knows 

I don't think Pederson and McDermott would get along.  

 

That would be like matter meeting anti-matter on the conservative scale.