Does Any Team That Passed on Josh in 2018 Draft NOT Regret It?

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Almost four years out.  Regrets, there are a few.

NY Giants - Saquon Barkley.  Uh yeah.  Compounded mistake of picking a RB too high with a top ten pick of Daniel Jones the following year.  

 

Of the six teams (after Browns), I was most happy that Giants stupidly passed on a QB. This virtually guaranteed that Buffalo would get a top pick QB. Of course, at the time, I didnt know that the Bills wanted Allen or how good he would turn out to be

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

but Buffalo passed on Mahomes

 

people in glass houses…..

That was not the question posed by the OP. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Almost four years out.  Regrets, there are a few.

 

Cleveland - Baker Mayfield.  Uh, yeah.  If they had picked Josh, their 2018 draft could have ranked with '74 Steelers (Allen, Ward, Nick Chubb).

NY Giants - Saquon Barkley.  Uh yeah.  Compounded mistake of picking a RB too high with a top ten pick of Daniel Jones the following year.  

NY Jets - Sam Darnold.  Uh, yeah.

Cleveland- D. Ward.  If they had drafted Allen #1, this would have been an ok pick.

Denver - B. Chubb.  Uh yeah.  They decided that they were good with Case Keenum and have cycled through Drew Lock and Teddy Bridgewater (am I missing anyone?).

Indy - Q. Nelson.  This is at least an interesting discussion.  All Pro guard for next 10 years and future Hall of Famer.  Plus they've been able to plug in Rivers and Wentz for passable QB play.  On the whole, however, yeah.  

TB - Traded with Buff.  Took Vita Vea at #12 and picked up a couple of CB's in Round 2.  Also ended up clearing the way for Brady in a round about way.  Doubt there are any regrets here.  You win a Super Bowl, you don't ask what if.

Quentin Nelson is the only not miss...

[Fan in Chicago]

43 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

they all do, Colts fans may tell you otherwise with Nelson but in reality they'd swap players if they could all day long, and Tampa fans are content, but the ageless Brady has to retire at some point 

Bucs played it well and turned it into a SB victory. But the time to draft the Brady replacement is in the upcoming draft. While Brady looks ageless. no human is. 

Just now, Sherlock Holmes said:

Quentin Nelson is the only not miss...

I would argue that Chubb and Ward aren't either. But the OP's point still stands. in retrospect, Colts would pick Allen over him

[dhgold]

2 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

... how in the world did Elway miss on drafting Allen to the Broncos.  

 

I was wondering that during last Sunday's game as JA was reminding me of a young Elway.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

24 minutes ago, dhgold said:

 

I was wondering that during last Sunday's game as JA was reminding me of a young Elway.

 

When you want to be known as the best QB in Bronco history, you don’t draft any challengers.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

Big thank you to John Elway for this....and for the pick-6 to Carlton Bailey...

It was almost a bigger thank you than what has been said so far:  If Bradley Chubb had been selected in the top 4, Elway would have traded the pick to the Bills for our 2 #1s & a #2.  Then the Bills would have drafted Josh at #5.  Not only was Elway not interested in drafting a QB, he was willing to trade the pick to a team that was trading up for a QB. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Of the six teams (after Browns), I was most happy that Giants stupidly passed on a QB. This virtually guaranteed that Buffalo would get a top pick QB. Of course, at the time, I didnt know that the Bills wanted Allen or how good he would turn out to be

That was not the question posed by the OP. 

The Giants didn’t want to hurt Eli’s feelings.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

The Colts still had Luck though at the time, that's the only team on the list that I can't fault them for not taking Josh.  Was just having the discussion with a friend at the gym today about how in the world did Elway miss on drafting Allen to the Broncos.  

@Zerovoltz is pretty good at explaining how the Broncos screwed up the top of rhe 2018 draft.

 

I’ve always looked at it as just terrible timing for the Broncos. They just failed twice with big project QB’s in Oz and Lynch. And Lynch was mobile like Allen too. There was no way Elway could sell swinging for the fences again for a similar type prospect.
 

Of course the irony of it all is that even more so than Oz and Lynch, Elway could not have crafted his prototypical QB in his mind better than the real Josh Allen entering that draft. And coming out of Woyming of all schools! Right in their backyard.

 

 

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The Browns could've had Nelson at #1 and Allen at #4.

please tell me their GM from that draft is unemployed.

[RunTheBall]

1 hour ago, First Round Bust said:

 

The reigning first pick  - Baker 0- is a pocket qb who has and will have plenty of big games - reminds me of favre - pocket passer, limited mobility, gun-slinger - plays behind an outstanding line but not the best receiving corp ?

 

The best of the rest - Nelson - love this guy but a hall-of-fame guard versus hall-of-game qb ?  

 

 

 

You can’t seriously be putting Baker Mayfield’s name in the same sentence as Brett Favre can you? Favre was a 4th quarter hero, Baker SUCKS in the 4th and from behind, one of the worst in the league.  Name his big games, he’s got maybe 5 tops. He’s a near bust as a number one pick and the Browns are still going to swallow and ridiculously overpay him.

 

All you clowns who are still sucking on the “we could have had Mahomes” teat need to STFU. Mahomes is great, Allen is Buffalo. The guy is a better version of Jim Kelly and I LOVE me some Jimbo. When he’s done he’s going to be the greatest QB in franchise history - book it. 

 

It’s easy to judge in retrospect, but there is ZERO question that McD made the right call on passing up on Mahomes and we ended up with the best QB for Buffalo in Allen. Oh and oh yeah, an All Pro CB in Tre White in addition.

[bigK14094]

2 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

OK then...the Giants will not regret it after Barkley rips off 2500 yards next year...

It did take OJ a couple of seasons before he was tearing up the league.

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

This, and let’s not forget hindsight is 20/20.  Allen was an unknown and a ‘project’ QB (as labeled by the ‘experts’) coming out of college. I freaking love that we struck gold with Allen… but even many, many Bills fans thought we got the Wrong Josh when Goodell made that announcement…

 

Imagine the disaster if we had actually drafted Josh Rosen?  And I still wonder which QB we would’ve drafted if we had the #1 pick.

 

And I distinctly remember about 70% of this board wanting nothing to do with Allen because of the accuracy concerns.  

[CSBill]

40 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

And I distinctly remember about 70% of this board wanting nothing to do with Allen because of the accuracy concerns.  

I can proudly (and in full honesty) say, Josh Allen was the QB I wanted in that draft. And Lamar was my second choice.   Pretty confident they have been 1 & 2 from that draft. 

[TailgateChef]

2 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

This, and let’s not forget hindsight is 20/20.  Allen was an unknown and a ‘project’ QB (as labeled by the ‘experts’) coming out of college. I freaking love that we struck gold with Allen… but even many, many Bills fans thought we got the Wrong Josh when Goodell made that announcement…

 

Imagine the disaster if we had actually drafted Josh Rosen?  And I still wonder which QB we would’ve drafted if we had the #1 pick.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm in an alternate universe.  Because in my universe, the Bills always do this.

[streetkings01]

4 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

The Colts still had Luck though at the time, that's the only team on the list that I can't fault them for not taking Josh.  Was just having the discussion with a friend at the gym today about how in the world did Elway miss on drafting Allen to the Broncos.  

Crazy because it made so much sense.

[clearwater cadet]

Colts had Andrew Luck, why would the have pick JA

[billsfan89]

5 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

The Colts still had Luck though at the time, that's the only team on the list that I can't fault them for not taking Josh.  Was just having the discussion with a friend at the gym today about how in the world did Elway miss on drafting Allen to the Broncos.  

You can’t blame the Colts, they had no clue Luck who was proven and just 29 years old would retire after one season. They traded down picking up a pair of second round picks and got a great guard they thought would help protect a good young QB in his prime for the rest of his prime. It was the right move you just can only predict so much. Teams 1 to 5 have to feel like idiots.

[First Round Bust]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

 

You can’t seriously be putting Baker Mayfield’s name in the same sentence as Brett Favre can you? Favre was a 4th quarter hero, Baker SUCKS in the 4th and from behind, one of the worst in the league.  Name his big games, he’s got maybe 5 tops. He’s a near bust as a number one pick and the Browns are still going to swallow and ridiculously overpay him.

 

All you clowns who are still sucking on the “we could have had Mahomes” teat need to STFU. Mahomes is great, Allen is Buffalo. The guy is a better version of Jim Kelly and I LOVE me some Jimbo. When he’s done he’s going to be the greatest QB in franchise history - book it. 

 

It’s easy to judge in retrospect, but there is ZERO question that McD made the right call on passing up on Mahomes and we ended up with the best QB for Buffalo in Allen. Oh and oh yeah, an All Pro CB in Tre White in addition.

yeah is going to get paid and overpaid, like a ton of others..and he is 1-0 versus Josh Allen btw

browns made the playoffs with him for the first time in ever, and remain a good team in the hunt, he is playing hurt and even tho playing hurt and threw 4 picks last week they lost by 2 points to the packers on the road...he  also doesnt have a good WR crop to work, OBJ did not work out, they run the ball well but he is a limited pocket passer with no RPO and athleticism other than being a gun-slinger

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

It did take OJ a couple of seasons before he was tearing up the league.

OJ wasn't a walking injury, his problem was the Bills coaches.  Barkley is in his 4th season & has steadily declined since his rookie year.  

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

This, and let’s not forget hindsight is 20/20.  Allen was an unknown and a ‘project’ QB (as labeled by the ‘experts’) coming out of college. I freaking love that we struck gold with Allen… but even many, many Bills fans thought we got the Wrong Josh when Goodell made that announcement…

 

Imagine the disaster if we had actually drafted Josh Rosen?  And I still wonder which QB we would’ve drafted if we had the #1 pick.

No need to wonder-Josh was #1 on their board per the leaked photo of their board that WGR showed.  They had 3 QBs they were willing to trade up for, in order Josh, Darnold & Mayfield.  Rosen was 4th, but they were only trading up to 5 (the original plan before Chubb was there for Denver) for the top three.  

 

Josh wasn't "unknown", everyone had him top 10 in mock drafts, even Mina Kimes who went nuts when the Bills took Allen over Rosen.  

Edited January 2, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[BisonMan]

I'm not sure a that many of the teams above the Bills in that draft can actually regret not picking JA. The fact is that Allen was a "project" QB of sorts. He had all the physical talent but lacked refinement. The key to the Bills' success with Allen was both his own internal drive to be better (off-season work on mechanics, etc.) and the team's willingness to help him grow and build an offense around his skills. That takes the right GM, the right coaches (McD, Daboll and others), the right scheme, the right complementary pieces and patience. 

 

I'm wholly unconvinced that almost any of the teams above the Bills in that draft had the leadership to succeed with Josh. Would Josh fail in bigger city with more unrelenting media? Would he have succeeded with the coaches on the other teams over the last several years? Would they make a change at OC to help better develop their potential Franchise QB? Besides limited physical skills, one of the reasons Mayfield has not excelled is franchise instability and poor coaching. Darnold suffered a worse fate and so would have Josh if drafted by the Jets. I'd say the same about the Broncos.

 

Lots of things had to be architected for Josh to become the player he has, and the franchise deserves a lot of credit for that. That's ownership, coaching and management. Plus, an awesome football town that made JA feel right at home. 

 

My 2 cents.

[John from Riverside]

Meh......dude cant even make the Pro Bowl

[PromoTheRobot]

You have to ask how many other teams would have nurtured Allen like the Bills did? I think most would have tossed him out there to sink or swim. He would have lived down to the draft guru takes. Players are more than talent. They are the sum of their coaching too.

Edited January 2, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, flaz said:

 

I don't think he's think he's reached the grade that teaches algebra 

Which grade teaches proofreading, though?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

47 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You have to ask how many other teams would have nurtured Allen like the Bills did? I think most would have tossed him out there to sink or swim. He would have lived down to the draft guru takes. Players are more than talent. They are the sum of their coaching too.

how much did we actually nurture him though? It was probably a blessing he inured his elbow to get some more time learning in the film room. But I’ve always thought Allen’s athletic ability would have enabled him to succeed anyway. It’s not like the Bills had a great supporting cast around him his rookie year.

 

so many other fans of other teams always say, “yea if he was a Jet or Bronco he would have flamed out just like Darnold or Locke” I think that greatly undersells Allen’s own talents though. And since Allen was not surrounded by the best offensive talent his first year I don’t really buy that argument. Even the talent around him his second year was only average at best.

[Zerovoltz]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

@Zerovoltz is pretty good at explaining how the Broncos screwed up the top of rhe 2018 draft.

 

 

 

For those interested -

 

Denver is a great case study on how teams can ruin a draft with moves and decisions far off from draft day itself.

 

coming off the 2017 Season, Denver had just gone 5-11 with 11 Starts from Siemien, and a few from Oswieler and a couple from Lynch.  Lynch as many will recall, had been drafted by the Broncos late in round 1 of the 2016 NFL Draft.  It is a confirmed fact that both Jerry Jones of the Cowboys and Andy Ried of the Chiefs also wanted Lynch.  

 

Going into that draft Dallas had no.4 overall, that they used on Ezekial Elliot, and had picks 34 (rd 2) and 67 (rd 3)  

KC had pick 28 (rd 1) pick 59 (rd 2) and didn't have a 3rd round choice...which is VERY important, and I'll get to it in a moment.

Denver had pick 31 (rd 1) 63 (rd2) and 94 (rd 3)

 

As the draft progressed toward the later part of round 1, it was known by the Broncos, Chiefs and Cowboys that all 3 were looking to draft Lynch.  When Seattle and Pick 26 came up, they were willing to deal out and started taking calls.  Denver ultimately traded 31 and 94 to move up to 26 and take Paxton Lynch.  Kansas City only would have needed to move up 2 spots from 28 to 26 but did not have a third round selection to beat Denvers offer.  KC did have a 4th at 126, but clearly 31 and 94 are better than 28 and 126.  The Cowboys also couldn't beat Denvers offer....and ended up taking Dak Prescott later on.

 

The next domino to fall for Denver was the rift this caused between Gary Kubiak and John Elway.  Kubiak who was the head coach, did not want Paxton Lynch...as it turns out, he wanted Prescott.  It should be noted that Prescott missed a flight to Denver for a pre draft interview with Elway.  Kubiak would go on and coach the Broncos in 2016, with Trevor Simien, not Lynch, as his QB.  Lynch couldn't beat out Simien, a rookie 7th rounder.  Kubiak "retired" after the 2016 season.

 

Elway hired Vance Joseph to be the new HC in 2017.  Lynch, could not beat out Simien still, and Brock Oswieler was also back at this point.  The Broncos went 5-11 and it was clear at this piont that Lynch was a bust but......Joseph was only 1 year into his contract and Denver still had alot of the peices on defense that won them super bowl 50.  During the offseason, Elway considered a coaching change and new direction, but decided to retain the staff and announce publicly that the staff would return but must win to earn another season. It was a public ultimatum.   At this point they were  NOT drafting a QB.  It is unusual a team with a lame duck coach, to draft a QB...the coach doesn't have the luxury of time to develop that QB.  Denver then signed Case Keenum, further cementing the idea they weren't in the QB market heading into the 2018 Draft.....and Lynch was still on the roster even though at this point it was known he was a bust.  

 

When draft day came, Denver, I believe may have had a deal in place to move out of 5 with Buffalo...but when the Browns surprised everyone at pick 4 and took CB Denzel Ward, Denver stayed at 5 and took Bradley Chubb, DE, North Carolina State.  He's been OK...and hurt quite a bit.  Josh Allen was sitting there, at 5, and couldhave been had for NOTHING, if Denver was in the market.  It was pretty well known Elway really thought highly of Allen but since he had a coach, who had to win now, and was still stung by the Lynch bust, Elway passed.

 

ultimately, Denver would only go 6-10, with poor QB play, Joseph was fired after the year anyhow, Case Keenum proved to not be the answer and Denver went into the 2019 offseason NO BETTER OFF than they had been the year before....and had Josh Allen in their lap.  They would hire Vic Fangio, and trade for a washed up Joe Flacco heading into 2019.

 

...and if you are a Bills fan...that pretty much sums it up....and you can stop reading here if you want...but...remember how I said that missing 3rd round pick in 2016 was very important?  Keep reading if you want to learn more about that....not having that pick set up not just the Broncos and Lynch and those dominoes...but had a profound impact on the Chiefs future as well.

 

Just a few days before that 2016 Draft, KC had to forfiet their 3rd round pick (no 91 overall) due to tampering with Jeremy Maclin who KC ended up signing as a FA.  When it came time to make the move up from 28 to 26, KC didn't have the ammo to beat the Broncos.  Denver got pick 26 for 31 and 94.  KC would have been able to offer 28 and 91 for that pick if Roger Goodell hadn't taken it away for tampering.  

 

Having lost out in the Paxton Lynch derby, KC ended up trading out of pick 28, moving back with the 49ers and 

 Kansas City traded its first-round selection (28th) and seventh-round selection (249th) to San Francisco in exchange for San Francisco's second-, fourth-, and sixth-round selections (37th, 105th, and 178th).  With pick 37 KC would end up taking DT Chris Jones.  with the 4th rounder, KC took OG Parker Ehinger, who they ended up trading to the Cowboys for practice squad CB, Charvarious Ward, who has started for KC the last 3 years.  But more important was that having missed out on Lynch, KC was still in the QB market in 2017, and of course moved up from 27 to 10 in the trade with the Bills and drafted Mahomes.  that 27th overall ended up being Tre White and the next season, the Bills drafted Josh Allen. 

 

How different it all might have been for alot of teams and players....

 

 

 

[PolishPrince]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You have to ask how many other teams would have nurtured Allen like the Bills did? I think most would have tossed him out there to sink or swim. He would have lived down to the draft guru takes. Players are more than talent. They are the sum of their coaching too.

I dont get this,  and I see a lot of media pundits talk about "Bills example of how to groom a young QB." Maybe I am miss-remembering but our staff DID throw him to the wolves halfway through his first game of rookie season against a top defense, and without any solid vets on the team helping him out (until later in season when he got injured).... AFTER he took QB3 reps all training camp. Our offense was the most unskilled awful group I have watched even compared to all of the drought years. Yes Beane went out and got some FA budget WR's and O-Line (outside of Morse not being budget). But thats about it. We still complain about our Oline, and we havent spent high draft picks to help Josh out like the Bengals have. 

 

From what I remember from Josh's rookie season the Bills did about everything they could have TO bungle Josh's development.

Edited January 2, 2022 by PolishPrince

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You have to ask how many other teams would have nurtured Allen like the Bills did? I think most would have tossed him out there to sink or swim. He would have lived down to the draft guru takes. Players are more than talent. They are the sum of their coaching too.

Huh?  This makes no sense.  The Bills did exactly what you say others teams would do and screw up their QB.  Allen took over for Peterman in the first game of his rookie season.  And then he started week 2.  He was the starter until he injured his elbow.  Then they fired his first OC at the end of the season.    

[mannc]

5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

For those interested -

 

Denver is a great case study on how teams can ruin a draft with moves and decisions far off from draft day itself.

 

coming off the 2017 Season, Denver had just gone 5-11 with 11 Starts from Siemien, and a few from Oswieler and a couple from Lynch.  Lynch as many will recall, had been drafted by the Broncos late in round 1 of the 2016 NFL Draft.  It is a confirmed fact that both Jerry Jones of the Cowboys and Andy Ried of the Chiefs also wanted Lynch.  

 

Going into that draft Dallas had no.4 overall, that they used on Ezekial Elliot, and had picks 34 (rd 2) and 67 (rd 3)  

KC had pick 28 (rd 1) pick 59 (rd 2) and didn't have a 3rd round choice...which is VERY important, and I'll get to it in a moment.

Denver had pick 31 (rd 1) 63 (rd2) and 94 (rd 3)

 

As the draft progressed toward the later part of round 1, it was known by the Broncos, Chiefs and Cowboys that all 3 were looking to draft Lynch.  When Seattle and Pick 26 came up, they were willing to deal out and started taking calls.  Denver ultimately traded 31 and 94 to move up to 26 and take Paxton Lynch.  Kansas City only would have needed to move up 2 spots from 28 to 26 but did not have a third round selection to beat Denvers offer.  KC did have a 4th at 126, but clearly 31 and 94 are better than 28 and 126.  The Cowboys also couldn't beat Denvers offer....and ended up taking Dak Prescott later on.

 

The next domino to fall for Denver was the rift this caused between Gary Kubiak and John Elway.  Kubiak who was the head coach, did not want Paxton Lynch...as it turns out, he wanted Prescott.  It should be noted that Prescott missed a flight to Denver for a pre draft interview with Elway.  Kubiak would go on and coach the Broncos in 2016, with Trevor Simien, not Lynch, as his QB.  Lynch couldn't beat out Simien, a rookie 7th rounder.  Kubiak "retired" after the 2016 season.

 

Elway hired Vance Joseph to be the new HC in 2017.  Lynch, could not beat out Simien still, and Brock Oswieler was also back at this point.  The Broncos went 5-11 and it was clear at this piont that Lynch was a bust but......Joseph was only 1 year into his contract and Denver still had alot of the peices on defense that won them super bowl 50.  During the offseason, Elway considered a coaching change and new direction, but decided to retain the staff and announce publicly that the staff would return but must win to earn another season. It was a public ultimatum.   At this point they were  NOT drafting a QB.  It is unusual a team with a lame duck coach, to draft a QB...the coach doesn't have the luxury of time to develop that QB.  Denver then signed Case Keenum, further cementing the idea they weren't in the QB market heading into the 2018 Draft.....and Lynch was still on the roster even though at this point it was known he was a bust.  

 

When draft day came, Denver, I believe may have had a deal in place to move out of 5 with Buffalo...but when the Browns surprised everyone at pick 4 and took CB Denzel Ward, Denver stayed at 5 and took Bradley Chubb, DE, North Carolina State.  He's been OK...and hurt quite a bit.  Josh Allen was sitting there, at 5, and couldhave been had for NOTHING, if Denver was in the market.  It was pretty well known Elway really thought highly of Allen but since he had a coach, who had to win now, and was still stung by the Lynch bust, Elway passed.

 

ultimately, Denver would only go 6-10, with poor QB play, Joseph was fired after the year anyhow, Case Keenum proved to not be the answer and Denver went into the 2019 offseason NO BETTER OFF than they had been the year before....and had Josh Allen in their lap.  They would hire Vic Fangio, and trade for a washed up Joe Flacco heading into 2019.

 

...and if you are a Bills fan...that pretty much sums it up....and you can stop reading here if you want...but...remember how I said that missing 3rd round pick in 2016 was very important?  Keep reading if you want to learn more about that....not having that pick set up not just the Broncos and Lynch and those dominoes...but had a profound impact on the Chiefs future as well.

 

Just a few days before that 2016 Draft, KC had to forfiet their 3rd round pick (no 91 overall) due to tampering with Jeremy Maclin who KC ended up signing as a FA.  When it came time to make the move up from 28 to 26, KC didn't have the ammo to beat the Broncos.  Denver got pick 26 for 31 and 94.  KC would have been able to offer 28 and 91 for that pick if Roger Goodell hadn't taken it away for tampering.  

 

Having lost out in the Paxton Lynch derby, KC ended up trading out of pick 28, moving back with the 49ers and 

 Kansas City traded its first-round selection (28th) and seventh-round selection (249th) to San Francisco in exchange for San Francisco's second-, fourth-, and sixth-round selections (37th, 105th, and 178th).  With pick 37 KC would end up taking DT Chris Jones.  with the 4th rounder, KC took OG Parker Ehinger, who they ended up trading to the Cowboys for practice squad CB, Charvarious Ward, who has started for KC the last 3 years.  But more important was that having missed out on Lynch, KC was still in the QB market in 2017, and of course moved up from 27 to 10 in the trade with the Bills and drafted Mahomes.  that 27th overall ended up being Tre White and the next season, the Bills drafted Josh Allen. 

 

How different it all might have been for alot of teams and players....

 

 

 

My immediate reaction: Elway is an f-ing moron. But I already knew that.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

For those interested -

 

Denver is a great case study on how teams can ruin a draft with moves and decisions far off from draft day itself.

 

coming off the 2017 Season, Denver had just gone 5-11 with 11 Starts from Siemien, and a few from Oswieler and a couple from Lynch.  Lynch as many will recall, had been drafted by the Broncos late in round 1 of the 2016 NFL Draft.  It is a confirmed fact that both Jerry Jones of the Cowboys and Andy Ried of the Chiefs also wanted Lynch.  

 

Going into that draft Dallas had no.4 overall, that they used on Ezekial Elliot, and had picks 34 (rd 2) and 67 (rd 3)  

KC had pick 28 (rd 1) pick 59 (rd 2) and didn't have a 3rd round choice...which is VERY important, and I'll get to it in a moment.

Denver had pick 31 (rd 1) 63 (rd2) and 94 (rd 3)

 

As the draft progressed toward the later part of round 1, it was known by the Broncos, Chiefs and Cowboys that all 3 were looking to draft Lynch.  When Seattle and Pick 26 came up, they were willing to deal out and started taking calls.  Denver ultimately traded 31 and 94 to move up to 26 and take Paxton Lynch.  Kansas City only would have needed to move up 2 spots from 28 to 26 but did not have a third round selection to beat Denvers offer.  KC did have a 4th at 126, but clearly 31 and 94 are better than 28 and 126.  The Cowboys also couldn't beat Denvers offer....and ended up taking Dak Prescott later on.

 

The next domino to fall for Denver was the rift this caused between Gary Kubiak and John Elway.  Kubiak who was the head coach, did not want Paxton Lynch...as it turns out, he wanted Prescott.  It should be noted that Prescott missed a flight to Denver for a pre draft interview with Elway.  Kubiak would go on and coach the Broncos in 2016, with Trevor Simien, not Lynch, as his QB.  Lynch couldn't beat out Simien, a rookie 7th rounder.  Kubiak "retired" after the 2016 season.

 

Elway hired Vance Joseph to be the new HC in 2017.  Lynch, could not beat out Simien still, and Brock Oswieler was also back at this point.  The Broncos went 5-11 and it was clear at this piont that Lynch was a bust but......Joseph was only 1 year into his contract and Denver still had alot of the peices on defense that won them super bowl 50.  During the offseason, Elway considered a coaching change and new direction, but decided to retain the staff and announce publicly that the staff would return but must win to earn another season. It was a public ultimatum.   At this point they were  NOT drafting a QB.  It is unusual a team with a lame duck coach, to draft a QB...the coach doesn't have the luxury of time to develop that QB.  Denver then signed Case Keenum, further cementing the idea they weren't in the QB market heading into the 2018 Draft.....and Lynch was still on the roster even though at this point it was known he was a bust.  

 

When draft day came, Denver, I believe may have had a deal in place to move out of 5 with Buffalo...but when the Browns surprised everyone at pick 4 and took CB Denzel Ward, Denver stayed at 5 and took Bradley Chubb, DE, North Carolina State.  He's been OK...and hurt quite a bit.  Josh Allen was sitting there, at 5, and couldhave been had for NOTHING, if Denver was in the market.  It was pretty well known Elway really thought highly of Allen but since he had a coach, who had to win now, and was still stung by the Lynch bust, Elway passed.

 

ultimately, Denver would only go 6-10, with poor QB play, Joseph was fired after the year anyhow, Case Keenum proved to not be the answer and Denver went into the 2019 offseason NO BETTER OFF than they had been the year before....and had Josh Allen in their lap.  They would hire Vic Fangio, and trade for a washed up Joe Flacco heading into 2019.

 

...and if you are a Bills fan...that pretty much sums it up....and you can stop reading here if you want...but...remember how I said that missing 3rd round pick in 2016 was very important?  Keep reading if you want to learn more about that....not having that pick set up not just the Broncos and Lynch and those dominoes...but had a profound impact on the Chiefs future as well.

 

Just a few days before that 2016 Draft, KC had to forfiet their 3rd round pick (no 91 overall) due to tampering with Jeremy Maclin who KC ended up signing as a FA.  When it came time to make the move up from 28 to 26, KC didn't have the ammo to beat the Broncos.  Denver got pick 26 for 31 and 94.  KC would have been able to offer 28 and 91 for that pick if Roger Goodell hadn't taken it away for tampering.  

 

Having lost out in the Paxton Lynch derby, KC ended up trading out of pick 28, moving back with the 49ers and 

 Kansas City traded its first-round selection (28th) and seventh-round selection (249th) to San Francisco in exchange for San Francisco's second-, fourth-, and sixth-round selections (37th, 105th, and 178th).  With pick 37 KC would end up taking DT Chris Jones.  with the 4th rounder, KC took OG Parker Ehinger, who they ended up trading to the Cowboys for practice squad CB, Charvarious Ward, who has started for KC the last 3 years.  But more important was that having missed out on Lynch, KC was still in the QB market in 2017, and of course moved up from 27 to 10 in the trade with the Bills and drafted Mahomes.  that 27th overall ended up being Tre White and the next season, the Bills drafted Josh Allen. 

 

How different it all might have been for alot of teams and players....

 

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

17 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

but Buffalo passed on Mahomes

 

people in glass houses…..

And I prefer who we have.  Give me Tre white and Josh Allen all day long. Frankly I’d take Allen over Mahomes standing alone.  So I’m cool with how we ended up. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by SectionC3

[78thealltimegreat]

17 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

The Colts still had Luck though at the time, that's the only team on the list that I can't fault them for not taking Josh.  Was just having the discussion with a friend at the gym today about how in the world did Elway miss on drafting Allen to the Broncos.  

The thing about Elway is he went to Josh’s bowl game too guy just has a tin ear for qb talent see Paxton Lynch and Drew Lock 

[bigduke6]

they all may regret it a tiny bit,  but there are so many moving parts to every NFL team,  theres absolutely no guarantee Josh becomes what he has at another franchise.   coaching,  scheme,  health,  etc, etc.   i believe Josh would have worked his butt off anywhere,   gotten better,  but theres more to it than just the player.    these guys are all guessing when it comes to drafting.    so many busts,  so many late round wonders punching above their weight.     

 

as much as these pro scouts/analysts/etc think they know,  they really dont.

 

all that being said,  im more than pleased that we have Josh,  and things have worked out for us.

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, NewEra said:

I agree with you, but he’s also not just an all pro guard. He’s likely going to be an all time guard.  

 

Colts fortunes will never turn on a guard.

[Mr. K]

Who doesn't regret missing on Brady, Rodgers, Lamar to an extent? You could use this for every good player who is drafted outside of the top 10 - first 2 rounds. How'd we miss on this guy or that guy? Because there is a multitude of variables that contribute to the success or failure of an individuals in their professional careers. And some dumb luck too.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mr. K

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Colts fortunes will never turn on a guard.

Not sure what that has to do with my comment, but do you.

[Albany,n.y.]

11 hours ago, PolishPrince said:

I dont get this,  and I see a lot of media pundits talk about "Bills example of how to groom a young QB." Maybe I am miss-remembering but our staff DID throw him to the wolves halfway through his first game of rookie season against a top defense, and without any solid vets on the team helping him out (until later in season when he got injured).... AFTER he took QB3 reps all training camp. Our offense was the most unskilled awful group I have watched even compared to all of the drought years. Yes Beane went out and got some FA budget WR's and O-Line (outside of Morse not being budget). But thats about it. We still complain about our Oline, and we havent spent high draft picks to help Josh out like the Bengals have. 

 

From what I remember from Josh's rookie season the Bills did about everything they could have TO bungle Josh's development.

I remember fans going crazy because the Bills had to start Josh after Peterman failed on opening day & until Anderson signed, they had no veteran backup.  A lot of Bills fans were up in arms that the Bills didn't have a veteran mentor for Josh the 1st half of his rookie year.  

[Greatdane21]

How were they to know that the space capsule that landed on the Allen farm back in 1998 would contain such a humble and talented individual. 
think of how foolish the pac ten coaches must feel having him right under their noses and not even make an offer. The Buffalo 🦬 community has been extremely lucky 🍀 to have gotten this new asset to the community.

win or lose Buffalo has already won 🥇.

[TH3]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You have to ask how many other teams would have nurtured Allen like the Bills did? I think most would have tossed him out there to sink or swim. He would have lived down to the draft guru takes. Players are more than talent. They are the sum of their coaching too.

Didn’t the Bills pretty toss him out to sink or swim at the end of the day anyway?

 

well….at the end of that ravens game?

Edited January 2, 2022 by TH3

[Albany,n.y.]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Huh?  This makes no sense.  The Bills did exactly what you say others teams would do and screw up their QB.  Allen took over for Peterman in the first game of his rookie season.  And then he started week 2.  He was the starter until he injured his elbow.  Then they fired his first OC at the end of the season.    

Daboll has always been Josh's OC.  They changed QB coaches after Josh was a rookie because Baltimore offered Culley a promotion and he left voluntarily with an assistant head title in Baltimore-a title that makes it very difficult for a team to keep a coach from moving on.  

 

Different Reply:  

The one part missing from Z's story is what effect did missing out on Cousins have on Elway's panic move to sign Keenum?  

Edited January 2, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

 

41 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Daboll has always been Josh's OC.  They changed QB coaches after Josh was a rookie because Baltimore offered Culley a promotion and he left voluntarily with an assistant head title in Baltimore-a title that makes it very difficult for a team to keep a coach from moving on.  

 

Different Reply:  

The one part missing from Z's story is what effect did missing out on Cousins have on Elway's panic move to sign Keenum?  

You are correct. Dennison was fired after 2017 and Daboll was hired for 2018 season