Change Pass Interference to 15 yd penalty (edited title)

[Mikie2times]

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Good idea with these refs nowadays. But can be a bad idea as well in lots of ways.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

I think it's a good idea.   PI is the only penalty in pro football that awards yardage based on an assumption something would have happened.   Who knows whether the ball would have been caught?   Nobody.  

 

Why don't they give a touchdown if a receiver holds, based on the assumption that but for the hold, the guy would have gone for a TD?   

 

Teams, including the Bills throw deep in part because they know the chances are good they can get a penalty worth 30-40 yards.  I don't like it.  

[Jrb1979]

If you are talking about rule changes, can we get rid of the fair catch? I watch the CFL a lot and their rule is they have to give the receiving player 5 yards to make a play. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

I think they’re trying to disincentivize dbs just tackling receivers while the ball is in the air to save tds. Which wouldn’t you know it is exactly what happened to diggs in the end zone Sunday 🤣

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Need a “P.I. Only” sky judge...obviously the field officials cannot handle it.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think they’re trying to disincentivize dbs just tackling receivers while the ball is in the air to save tds. Which wouldn’t you know it is exactly what happened to diggs in the end zone Sunday 🤣

That's the spirit of the rule, but I don't think the rule can be fairly applied and I also don't think the rule alters play. If anybody can recall a moment watching a college game where this occurred, I can't and I've watched a disgusting amount of college football.  

[BassToMouth]

31 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

It’s another way they adjusted to help them

steer outcomes. All their changes have been for this reason. The extra point being moved to 33 yards is the most obvious shout out and also helps them steer outcomes. You have to stop taking this league at face value, assuming that like any other business, they’re attempting to make their product or service better. Obviously the NFL is not doing this. It’s all for other reasons, actually to the detriment of their product, and very few of you seem to want to accept this.

[Nextmanup]

I have thought going with the college 15 yard rule was a good idea for many years now.

 

Giving the ball at the spot of the foul is often a gigantic penalty, and you're not sure the player would have caught the ball in the absence of the foul anyway!

 

 

15 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think they’re trying to disincentivize dbs just tackling receivers while the ball is in the air to save tds. Which wouldn’t you know it is exactly what happened to diggs in the end zone Sunday 🤣

How about having a 2 tier type of penalty.

 

If PI is "egregious" it's the spot of the foul.  I.E., the DB was horribly beaten and tackled the WR to avoid a huge completion.  

 

If not, it's 15 yards.  

 

It would still require the official to exercise subjective discretion (which is a terrible idea) but it might be a sound approach overall.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought going with the college 15 yard rule was a good idea for many years now.

 

Giving the ball at the spot of the foul is often a gigantic penalty, and you're not sure the player would have caught the ball in the absence of the foul anyway!

 

 

How about having a 2 tier type of penalty.

 

If PI is "egregious" it's the spot of the foul.  I.E., the DB was horribly beaten and tackled the WR to avoid a huge completion.  

 

If not, it's 15 yards.  

 

It would still require the official to exercise subjective discretion (which is a terrible idea) but it might be a sound approach overall.

 

 

Logically that’s a great idea…they used to have that for face masks right?  I don’t trust these guys with judgement calls at all though lol I’m honestly at the point where I think no ref backyard football rules where players call their own fouls on the honor system would be a better product lol if penalties were completely turned off we maybe win against the bucs…part that pissed me off was not only were the bucs getting away with stuff but we were also getting hit with it 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought going with the college 15 yard rule was a good idea for many years now.

 

Giving the ball at the spot of the foul is often a gigantic penalty, and you're not sure the player would have caught the ball in the absence of the foul anyway!

 

 

How about having a 2 tier type of penalty.

 

If PI is "egregious" it's the spot of the foul.  I.E., the DB was horribly beaten and tackled the WR to avoid a huge completion.  

 

If not, it's 15 yards.  

 

It would still require the official to exercise subjective discretion (which is a terrible idea) but it might be a sound approach overall.

 

 

I can't trust egregious and not egregious with these guys. It would put us right back to a indisputable vs disputable and they don't get that right with unlimited time and slow motion. 

[BearNorth]

27 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

If you are talking about rule changes, can we get rid of the fair catch? I watch the CFL a lot and their rule is they have to give the receiving player 5 yards to make a play. 

They also have 20 yard deep end zones, and a punt or kickoff that is not returned can give the kicking team a point, called a rouge.  Doubtful the NFL with their emphasis on player injury avoidance would ever force a returner to return a kick.

[Ya Digg?]

51 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

So one thing that has to be taken I to consideration with the college rule is that a lot of these corner backs in college can’t react quickly enough to tackle some of these receivers as they run right by them, which is why you don’t see many wide receivers get tackled for a DPI. That won’t happen in the pros. It seems that I’m in the minority, but I’m fine with it being a spot foul

[Livinginthepast]

Make PI a coaches challenge. It works in the CFL and is limited to once a game if you have a timeout. Had the Bills had any timeouts they could have challenged the endzone pass play. But the Big time NFL cant possibly poach a good idea from the two bit CFL can they?

[without a drought]

20 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Make PI a coaches challenge. It works in the CFL and is limited to once a game if you have a timeout. Had the Bills had any timeouts they could have challenged the endzone pass play. But the Big time NFL cant possibly poach a good idea from the two bit CFL can they?

2019 wasn't that long ago.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think it's a good idea.   PI is the only penalty in pro football that awards yardage based on an assumption something would have happened.   Who knows whether the ball would have been caught?   Nobody.  

 

Why don't they give a touchdown if a receiver holds, based on the assumption that but for the hold, the guy would have gone for a TD?   

 

Teams, including the Bills throw deep in part because they know the chances are good they can get a penalty worth 30-40 yards.  I don't like it.  

Problem is based on the amount of passes thrown this season by the Bills, they have received the fewest DPI's.  Thank God for Xavien Howard or we'd be shutout.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought going with the college 15 yard rule was a good idea for many years now.

 

Giving the ball at the spot of the foul is often a gigantic penalty, and you're not sure the player would have caught the ball in the absence of the foul anyway!

 

 

How about having a 2 tier type of penalty.

 

If PI is "egregious" it's the spot of the foul.  I.E., the DB was horribly beaten and tackled the WR to avoid a huge completion.  

 

If not, it's 15 yards.  

 

It would still require the official to exercise subjective discretion (which is a terrible idea) but it might be a sound approach overall.

 

 

people’s solution to officials having too much leeway is seemingly almost always to force them to make even more judgement calls.

[Doc Brown]

Make it 25 yards.  Anything under that is a spot foul.  No half the distance to the goal.  If you throw it from the 30 and the player and DPI is called in the end zone the ball goes to the five.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Doc Brown

[Hebert19]

I hate to say it but the challenge idea was a good one...just poorly executed.   

42 minutes ago, without a drought said:

2019 wasn't that long ago.

Ha.  True that.  But it was 09orly executed in NFL but it's the right way to do it.  

[Bferra13]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

If you are talking about rule changes, can we get rid of the fair catch? I watch the CFL a lot and their rule is they have to give the receiving player 5 yards to make a play. 

There going to rule every time on safety... not because they care, but because of the law of the public court of approval and any future litigation against them. I can't see them spinning that rule the CFL uses as more safe but maybe I don't know the stats. I am told that punt returns the way they are now are relatively safe in the nfl.

[BigAl2526]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Good idea with these refs nowadays. But can be a bad idea as well in lots of ways.

Agreed.  When referees make a bad PI call on a 40 yard pass play, the penalty ought to be 15 yards, but when defenses protecting a 4 point lead tackles the receiver 45 yards downfield to protect that lead with 8 seconds left in the game, it probably ought to be a spot foul.  The problem is you can't have it both ways.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Half the distance to the spot of the foul

 

Edit: if over 15 yards

Edited December 15, 2021 by JohnBonhamRocks

[djp14150]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Good idea with these refs nowadays. But can be a bad idea as well in lots of ways.

 

that’s why they need some predefined degrees.

 

Low contact might be a 5 yard but no 1st. Contact made not near the balls arrival. No PI calls away from the balls intended target.

mid..15 yards…

flagrant is spot foul like hooking or clearly grabbing an arm before the ball arrives, tackling the player before ball gets there.

 

receivers need to be called more.  Such as them stopping and have player run into them is not a penalty unless they are about to get the ball. Them stopping or slowing down just to try and draw a penalty gets called against offense.

[Bferra13]

NFL wants offense. Scoring =money. It will only change when people stop watching (I'm not advocating this as I have no plans of stopping any time soon). NFL has no motivation to change this rule. Kind of like that pos EA Madden game. Have to hit them in the wallet or nothing will change.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Bferra13

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought going with the college 15 yard rule was a good idea for many years now.

 

Giving the ball at the spot of the foul is often a gigantic penalty, and you're not sure the player would have caught the ball in the absence of the foul anyway!

 

 

How about having a 2 tier type of penalty.

 

If PI is "egregious" it's the spot of the foul.  I.E., the DB was horribly beaten and tackled the WR to avoid a huge completion.  

 

If not, it's 15 yards.  

 

It would still require the official to exercise subjective discretion (which is a terrible idea) but it might be a sound approach overall.

 

 

 

Sort of like a 'running into the kicker, 5 yds' vs 'roughing the kicker, 15 yds & automatic 1st down' difference. 

[Pitch left]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think it's a good idea.   PI is the only penalty in pro football that awards yardage based on an assumption something would have happened.   Who knows whether the ball would have been caught?   Nobody.  

 

Why don't they give a touchdown if a receiver holds, based on the assumption that but for the hold, the guy would have gone for a TD?   

 

Teams, including the Bills throw deep in part because they know the chances are good they can get a penalty worth 30-40 yards.  I don't like it.  

Interestingly they give whatever the yardage is where the PI is committed assuming the player would have caught the ball but if it's in the endzone they put it on the one ????

[Southern_Bills]

I wouldn't want to see it, in college players/coaches use it as an advantage.  Your beat? Grab him. 

 

I see the point, but I would hate to change a good rule because the refs have somehow forgot how to call it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Make PI a coaches challenge. It works in the CFL and is limited to once a game if you have a timeout. Had the Bills had any timeouts they could have challenged the endzone pass play. But the Big time NFL cant possibly poach a good idea from the two bit CFL can they?

 

Didn't the NFL try that a couple years ago, and abandoned it because they were never, but never, overturning the ruling on the field?  Not once.

 

Edit: yes, they introduced it for the 2019 season and didn't make it permanent

https://www.nfl.com/news/owners-make-pass-interference-non-calls-reviewable-0ap3000001024371

 

 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Problem is based on the amount of passes thrown this season by the Bills, they have received the fewest DPI's.  Thank God for Xavien Howard or we'd be shutout.

I think you're confused.  Only two defensive holding calls.  PI numbers aren't out of whack.  

[pennstate10]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think it's a good idea.   PI is the only penalty in pro football that awards yardage based on an assumption something would have happened.   Who knows whether the ball would have been caught?   Nobody.  

 

Why don't they give a touchdown if a receiver holds, based on the assumption that but for the hold, the guy would have gone for a TD?   

 

Teams, including the Bills throw deep in part because they know the chances are good they can get a penalty worth 30-40 yards.  I don't like it.  

Yeah, i dont know, I'd take it a step further.

 

the logic for making DPI a spot foul, even if it leads to a 50 yd penalty, is that you're assuming the reciever would have caught the ball, if not for the DPI.

 

Everyone agree?

 

So, using that same logic, the penalty for OPI should assume that, if not for the interference, the defender woudl have caught the ball.

 

Therefore OPI should be a turnover, same as an interception.

 

I dont think anyone would be happy with that rule.

 

So......

 

ipso facto, presto chango

 

Spot foul makes no sense.

 

Should be a 15 yd penalty either way...DPI or OPI.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, pennstate10 said:

Yeah, i dont know, I'd take it a step further.

 

the logic for making DPI a spot foul, even if it leads to a 50 yd penalty, is that you're assuming the reciever would have caught the ball, if not for the DPI.

 

Everyone agree?

 

So, using that same logic, the penalty for OPI should assume that, if not for the interference, the defender woudl have caught the ball.

 

Therefore OPI should be a turnover, same as an interception.

 

I dont think anyone would be happy with that rule.

 

So......

 

ipso facto, presto chango

 

Spot foul makes no sense.

 

Should be a 15 yd penalty either way...DPI or OPI.

Correctemundo!

[Nitro]

Watching the game change since the 1960s.  The current PI rule was in response to DBs intentionally interfering on deep throws.  NFL wanted to enhance the passing game and changed the rule.  Now the WRs are causing PI by their actions.  Since it is a judgement call, the NFL does not want a review done.  The experiment several years ago cured them of reviews.  Look for the NFL officiating staff to have the refs be more aware of the intentional short passes or WRs causing contact in the off season.  Doubt there will be a rule change.

[DrPJax]

4 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

I like some concept of that but I feel with nfl qb arms, capable of 60-70 yard throws, dbs would never take a chance on getting beaten    What I would throw out would be something like the first pi in a half be worth a 20 yard penalty. ( 2 first downs).  2 nd PI in a half worth 30 yards( 3 first down equivalents).  This would discourage PI on 10 yard patterns as an example as a db tries preventing a first down. This way the offense still has to perform , but the d is not going to want to keep grabbing receivers!  Third PI in a half would revert then to either 30 yards or classic spot penalty , which ever is more.    I think it would be stiff enough to prevent grabbing but quit placing the ball 50 yards downfield on the basis of a questionable ref call.   Mitigates holding / PI AND  BAD REF  calls at the same time. Certainly could be tweaked but need something in between college and currrent system esp given state of refs in NFL today. 

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Most of you are probably aware of this but in college football pass interference is a 15 yard penalty. I like that it's a 15 yards penalty. I do not trust the referees ability to judge PI in real life and do not want the risk of a penalty being called that is undetermined in length. If you object I imagine it's most likely out of the fear defenders will start tackling open WR's downfield. I used to think that way, never happens. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a clearly defeated college player decide that committing a penalty is better than not committing one. No player can react that logically with something so instinctual, in real time, and those speeds. It NEVER happens. 

 

15 Yards, good idea, bad idea?

I actually hate this rule in college to... every defender overplays or just drops the wr early on deep plays... its horrible. 

[pennstate10]

46 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I actually hate this rule in college to... every defender overplays or just drops the wr early on deep plays... its horrible. 

Really?

not sure what college games you’re watching. 
Maybe you can give a few examples because I don’t think I’ve seen this all season. 

[Doctor Duck]

7 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Agreed.  When referees make a bad PI call on a 40 yard pass play, the penalty ought to be 15 yards, but when defenses protecting a 4 point lead tackles the receiver 45 yards downfield to protect that lead with 8 seconds left in the game, it probably ought to be a spot foul.  The problem is you can't have it both ways.

Yes you Can. All reviews are upstairs within 2 mins warning. No Coach Discretion.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Interference isn't a major problem in college football. There's controversial calls sure, but not a major problem. 

 

I would like a rule that had 15 yard penalties and spot fouls greater than 15 yards. A spot foul greater than 15 yards would be for an intentional interference call. So say a player reaches out and grabs the WR while the ball is in the air, that's an intentional  interference. A 15 yard Foul would be for unintentional pass interference.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[bmur66]

But the league wants to see points on the board

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Didn't the NFL try that a couple years ago, and abandoned it because they were never, but never, overturning the ruling on the field?  Not once.

 

Edit: yes, they introduced it for the 2019 season and didn't make it permanent

https://www.nfl.com/news/owners-make-pass-interference-non-calls-reviewable-0ap3000001024371

 

 

 

Yes, the officials did not like it and there was clearly a conspiracy to not overturn any calls. So the league dropped it.

 

I hope there is enough push-back after this season to do it again, with a serious intent. Especially as the general quality of officiating goes down (maybe a better way to say it: "as the difficulty of officiating goes up") the need for an Eye-In-the-Sky official that can quickly respond to any egregious error should be seriously considered? One can hope.

[Mickey]

Interfering with and holding receivers on purpose happens all the time in the NFL.  The notion that for it to be "on purpose" the DB has to blatantly tackle the guy makes no sense.  DB's aren't that stupid, they do their best to disguise it but if they are beaten they purposefully take the foul. That is exactly what the Bucs did to Diggs when they grabbed him by the jersey to keep him from getting to that deep ball.  If they will do it with the current penalty (spot of the catch) then they will certainly do it if you reduce the penalty to 15 yards. 

 

I also don't buy for a moment that players would simply be unable to purposefully decide to take a foul because playing football is too "instinctual".  NBA players will take a a foul when it makes sense, soccer players do it all the time.  I can't count how many times I have seen a lineman hold on to a rusher that blew by him to keep him from killing the QB. 

 

The problem with interference calls is that it happens on sooooo many plays and refs aren't going to call it every play.  That means it all comes down to fairly random judgments and a whole lot of chance.  These plays happen downfield far from where most of the refs are located. They can't see everything.  Making the penalty less severe is not going to help.