Beane needs to spend serious resources on the OL

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

You trust Beane to use the resources to find the right players?

 

What players along either line has he hit on?

 

 

Morse, Oliver, Rousseau, Brown and Zimmer to name a few. 

 

No, they haven't put together a great unit, but the lines got us to the championship game last year. 

 

Yeah, they need improvement. But you'd be crazy not to trust Beane.

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, ngbills said:

Like they did with the DL?

 

The DL by and in large has been good.

[BillsFanForever19]

And Running Back. And another Tight End. And a Linebacker. And Interior D-Line.

 

He's got a lot of work to do with not a lot of cap space, not to mention a number of players we'll need to replace at other positions. Beane really screwed the pooch not making improvements this past offseason.

[ngbills]

43 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The DL by and in large has been good.

Not for the price tag, but that should change next year. Guessing Hughes, Butler, Addison, Obada, Phillips, and possibly Star are all goners. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't care if the first 3 picks in the draft are OL. Spends in FA to get a premium OL player or two...whatever. We simply CANNOT afford to keep playing this way on offense. 

 

No run game...Allen running for his life most plays...this offense is too good to allow poor blocking to kill it the way it is.

 

Forget the defense for a minute. Yeah that's important and some more  quality CBs are important...but OLine has a far better return on investment for this team...would allow them to basically be unstoppable on offense...

 

Beane...you need to fix this once and for all this off-season. Not by signing below average players to contracts to keep things together. They aren't good enough. Bring in better talent.

didn’t we already do this a little with Morse (high paid free agent center), Ford (2nd round pick), and Brown (3rd round pick)? 

[thenorthremembers]

At minimum they need a guard at most they need two.  Its not a total wash.   Beyond that they need a running back with real NFL speed who isnt a journeyman 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Our interior O Line is a joke, the one good player we have is Morse who is ancient, expensive and an injury risk.  I think Spencer Long will be a stud and give Dawkins a pass this year assuming his drop off is Covid related.

 

Spencer Long retired from football prior to the 2020 season.

9 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

didn’t we already do this a little with Morse (high paid free agent center), Ford (2nd round pick), and Brown (3rd round pick)? 

 

We did, and it improved our OL from sub-par to "serviceable".  But Ford seems to be a bust, and we need an upgrade.

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

You trust Beane to use the resources to find the right players?

 

What players along either line has he hit on?

You mean OTHER then QB?

 

Dude

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I will be posting opposite of what I said at the time of the draft. I was beating the drum for Najee Harris.  Then I thought Ford was the answer at LG. But I've come to my senses. They need to get younger and better on the o-line. Brown looks like he can play. It is time to end Dawkins at LT. Move him to LG and draft an elite OT in the first round. Then sign a top 3 OG in free agency. Morse is ok for another year. Keep Williams as a guy who can play G or OT. He will be expensive but is insurance at multiple spots.

[Success]

Am I the only one who thought the pass protection was much improved last night?

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Bills are +9 million in Cap space next year 😬

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

didn’t we already do this a little with Morse (high paid free agent center), Ford (2nd round pick), and Brown (3rd round pick)? 

 

Ford is a bust so that didn't pan out. I am talking about taking the best player in the draft at their position in the first round 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Ford is a bust so that didn't pan out. I am talking about taking the best player in the draft at their position in the first round 

 

i am not disagreeing that our current interior oline isn’t great. But will investing high draft picks really help? 
 

look at the patriots. They have undrafted and late round picks at their three interior oline spots and their backup guard (Owenu— who is better than anyone we have). 
 

i think the problem is oline philosophy and evaluation. We try to get quicker athletic guys, not road graders. Maybe we need to change the type of interior olineman we are looking for. 

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Not to mention provides zero push in the run game.  He’s useless unless he pulling 

…and yet he’s probably the best lineman on the team

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

…and yet he’s probably the best lineman on the team

Sad but probably true.  Hopefully Brown changes that and Dawkins can get back to his pre covid level of play.

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, BTB said:

Beane has made a huge investment (picks and cap space) on the DL, and the results are mixed at best.
 

Not sure I have any confidence in him to fix the OL woes. 

Beane might be only as good as his scouts are. I know he signs off on the picks but maybe our scouts are failing to find any decent trench players? His scouts this spring do not have the luxury to screw this up.

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sad but probably true.  Hopefully Brown changes that and Dawkins can get back to his pre covid level of play.

Morse is going to be a tough call in the off-season.  He has 1 year left on his deal.  I think it’s either going to be Morse or Williams that get cut

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Morse is going to be a tough call in the off-season.  He has 1 year left on his deal.  I think it’s either going to be Morse or Williams that get cut

We need depth and I wouldn’t mind keeping Morse and Williams. We will need them even with a heavy o-line investment in the draft this year. Still need experience. I’d rather save money by cutting Addison and some others. We need all the o-line help we can get. 

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Steptide said:

Our d line really isn't as bad as everyone says. As far as o line, I'm starting to wonder if it's coaching to an extent. We have young players on the o line who should be solid. I think one issue, and this falls on coaching, is the constant o line shuffling over the last few years. I don't think this helped in the long run. Having said that, the bills do need to upgrade it in next years draft or via free agency 

 

The Bills made a decision in to work on pass protection linemen and that resulted in some players like Quittin' Spain being less effective.

That decision should have been made before they signed him to an extension and released him for being quitter and whining.

 

Mitch Morse was a good decision regardless.  The Bills needed a center to lead that line and they got one.

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

I swear every year centers get picked in second and third round and are automatic. Cut Morse. Second round center. Use Morse coin on a free agent wr. First round maybe a guard. 

[Turf Toejam 34]

29 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Mitch Morse was a good decision regardless.  The Bills needed a center to lead that line and they got one.

 

I have seen enough of Mitch getting pushing directly back into Josh's lap again and again.    He is a finesse center that fit great in KC with some quality guards around him.    Can we invest in some young talent that can be Josh's security blanket straight up for the next decade?    

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Buffalo’s offensive line is clearly a liability in run blocking and frequently allows Allen to be pressured. Dawkins and Brown are the only offensive linemen with long term starting upside on the team at this point. Maybe Doyle, but his upside is likely swing OT. We need 2 new starting OGs and a starting C. Feliciano, Williams, Boettger, and/or Bates are good depth if they can be had at decent $. 
 

Buffalo’s defensive line cannot stop the run well enough and is inconsistent in pressuring the opposing QB. The future of the defensive line is Oliver for sure, seemingly Rousseau, Epenesa, and Phillips, and hopefully Obada and Basham. We need a starting DT and possibly a starting DE, especially if Hughes, Addison, and Lotulelei are jettisoned. I’d really like a DT above Oliver’s caliber to pair with him. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We need depth and I wouldn’t mind keeping Morse and Williams. We will need them even with a heavy o-line investment in the draft this year. Still need experience. I’d rather save money by cutting Addison and some others. We need all the o-line help we can get. 

Of course, but it’s a cap issue.  You can save $3M by cutting Morse and next year the Bills can get out of the Williams contract.  If he isn’t playing RT than he’s an overpaid guard.  They will need to clear his cap space (as well as Feliciano) if they want to give new deals to players like Edmunds or Oliver

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Of course, but it’s a cap issue.  You can save $3M by cutting Morse and next year the Bills can get out of the Williams contract.  If he isn’t playing RT than he’s an overpaid guard.  They will need to clear his cap space (as well as Feliciano) if they want to give new deals to players like Edmunds or Oliver

At this point, I want to keep as many good o-line around as humanly possible. It’s all about Josh Allen right now and we need to do everything possible to give him enough time and a good scheme to run game when needed. I’d rather see us struggle on the D-line than struggle on the o-line. 

[Billl]

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Of course, but it’s a cap issue.  You can save $3M by cutting Morse and next year the Bills can get out of the Williams contract.  If he isn’t playing RT than he’s an overpaid guard.  They will need to clear his cap space (as well as Feliciano) if they want to give new deals to players like Edmunds or Oliver

What do you think Edmunds and Oliver will get in their next deals?

[MasterStrategist]

9 hours ago, BTB said:

There is a lot of money tied up in DL and LB…yet not a lot of impact plays. 

Exactly! @GunnerBill mentioned this a couple weeks ago, but we lack bluechip/true difference makers.  Especially on defense, IMO, Tre being the only one.

 

We have some very good pieces/complimentary talent, and hopefully some young guys who will become great for us.  

 

I think Beane has done great in his handful of years and our expectation for this season was through the roof because of his success.  But he's not perfect.  He's missed and cost us value cap $$$s, especially on the lines. 

 

To me the strategy is perplexing on how they built the front 7.  Hindsight is 20/20 but when you want to be a "primarily nickle" defense, with more fast than physical LB play, then I'd think you want serious beef up the middle and balanced DEs (which we've primarily gone after).  Or, you change how you attack with Edmunds and Milano, ie: get more creative with them run blitzing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i think the problem is oline philosophy and evaluation. We try to get quicker athletic guys, not road graders. Maybe we need to change the type of interior olineman we are looking for. 

 

Would you describe Ford as a "quicker athletic guy"? 

[Since1981]

Felt like we built last year to beat KC style or Mahomey specifically. They didn’t plan for NE run blast.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you describe Ford as a "quicker athletic guy"? 

Absolutely. That was his draft profile. He was considered very athletic. They want guys it seems who are athletes and can pass protect and get out into

space on these wide zone runs.

 

The problem is all their athletic linemen aren’t athletic enough. Maybe they would be better off with some big beefy guys who can plow into defenders and run more gap-style runs? 

[Milanos Milano]

Penning and Faalele would help this team tremendously. 

[Locomark]

But we need a CB2 and some serious inside DL help also beyond 2 quality interior OL. I believe Mitch leaves this year and Feliciano is the short term Center place holder. So that leaves at least one guard spot open and some money to spend for it. 

[Pete]

If the Bills draft a stud RB and draft 6  offensive line, I’m ok with that

[BobbyC81]

19 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

You trust Beane to use the resources to find the right players?

 

What players along either line has he hit on?

Yeah, he traded up to get guys like Ford.  He also thought Singletary was so great because of film he saw on him.

 

I believe Dawkins can still be an above average LT.  Dealing with COVID is difficult for many.  He may still not be close to 100%.  

 

It would be interesting to find out how they really ranked the QBs in 2017.  Did they really get who they wanted at the time? They may have actually lucked into Josh developing into arguably the best of those 5 first-rounders.  

 

Believe it or not, they may also need to again look for WRs,  Beasley will be 33 in April, with 1 year left on his contract.  Might he be a cap casualty?   Sanders is on a 1 year deal and has been disappointing.  That leaves Diggs and Davis plus McKenzie, who’s in the doghouse and not really a starting WR.

[Back2Buff]

1 hour ago, BobbyC81 said:

Yeah, he traded up to get guys like Ford.  He also thought Singletary was so great because of film he saw on him.

 

I believe Dawkins can still be an above average LT.  Dealing with COVID is difficult for many.  He may still not be close to 100%.  

 

It would be interesting to find out how they really ranked the QBs in 2017.  Did they really get who they wanted at the time? They may have actually lucked into Josh developing into arguably the best of those 5 first-rounders.  

 

Believe it or not, they may also need to again look for WRs,  Beasley will be 33 in April, with 1 year left on his contract.  Might he be a cap casualty?   Sanders is on a 1 year deal and has been disappointing.  That leaves Diggs and Davis plus McKenzie, who’s in the doghouse and not really a starting WR.

 

Beane wasnt even here for the Dawkins pick.

[colin]

20 hours ago, Steptide said:

Our d line really isn't as bad as everyone says. As far as o line, I'm starting to wonder if it's coaching to an extent. We have young players on the o line who should be solid. I think one issue, and this falls on coaching, is the constant o line shuffling over the last few years. I don't think this helped in the long run. Having said that, the bills do need to upgrade it in next years draft or via free agency 

 

bro, this is it entirely.  motivation, scheme, basic coaching, and most of all identifying talent and ability.

 

cody ford is trash, but it seems it took some serious failure to figure that out for our coaches.  we let teller and spain walk (i understand spain had attitude issues of some kind, but he was good here for a while, and has been good on his new team).

 

we could have

 

dawkins, spain, morse, teller, brown

 

assuming the coaches who would have pushed to keep those guys would be at least a bit better at scheming and coaching them up, that's a killer line.  all guys who were on our team, all guys who played.  we'd be able to pay teller by ditching williams as of next season, meanwhile he'd be on the roster this year as depth.  we could have sacrificed the sanders signing to make easy room for all of this.

 

i honestly think that alone, even w dabol being not my personal favorite (i admit, i've railed on him a bit much) we'd be able to run and protect just enough better in the red zone to have snuck in an extra TD and woulda won vs jax, ne, and likely one of pittz or Tenn.  9 and 3 would have us sitting super pretty, with the ability to actually execute on O

 

 

oh my, what could have been!

[Solomon Grundy]

21 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Our interior O Line is a joke, the one good player we have is Morse who is ancient, expensive and an injury risk.  I think Spencer Long will be a stud and give Dawkins a pass this year assuming his drop off is Covid related.

I'm all for drafting a starting LT and moving Dawkins to G. Get a young C in the draft too

21 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

They’ve already spent “serious resources” on both lines and have little to show for it.  Throwing money at the problem won’t solve it.  

This is where the scouts earn their paychecks. Get some young, nasty players in the draft. 

[Solomon Grundy]

21 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Yet they've got to do something. I surmise the draft is the main resource. Creed Humphrey is wearing a helmet with an arrowhead. That's a miss.

I really can't properly evaluate coaching, but maybe they should throw money at the best possible oline coach while they are at it.

Don't forget Trey Smith who was a dominating player at Tennessee. We drafted Wildgoose, who's no longer on team, and Stevenson. Don't know why Smith slid so far, but that's where the scouting department earn their paychecks

[Solomon Grundy]

19 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I wonder if we could end up with any of these guys.....they will probably all be gone when we pick!  

 

DAMN!

 

8. Tyler Linderbaum, C, Iowa (6-3, 290 pounds)

Linderbaum is a strong, athletic and relentless interior blocker. He has the intelligence and natural run blocking skills to be a decade-long fixture in the NFL.

 

11. Ikem Ekwonu, G, NC State (6-4, 320 pounds)

Ekwonu has shot up boards showing his strong and powerful run blocking with the required nasty streak to push around and strike fear into his defensive line assignments.

 

15. Charles Cross, OT, Mississippi State (6-5, 310 pounds)

Cross has a powerful upper body, strong hands and a mean and nasty aspect to his blocking. He could still develop his agility and footwork to raise his game.

Check out Trevor Penning. UNI product and former teammate of Spencer Brown. 

19 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

It’s sad because we had Teller and Spain here and let them go.

Maybe it's time to let Bobby Johnson go. I'd do it before I draft any incoming offensive linemen

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

9 hours ago, Billl said:

What do you think Edmunds and Oliver will get in their next deals?

I would focus on Oliver and let Edmunds walk or trade Edmunds for OL.

[Solomon Grundy]

14 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

At minimum they need a guard at most they need two.  Its not a total wash.   Beyond that they need a running back with real NFL speed who isnt a journeyman 

RB needs speed and vision. Really think this offense is missing deep threat at receiver. Yes, Diggs can fill that void but his specialty/gift is his route running. 

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you describe Ford as a "quicker athletic guy"? 

Ford was considered a "road grader" going into draft.