Houston and Miami could have Deshaun Watson deal (update - no deal prior to trade deadline)

[Doc]

Yeah this upcoming draft looks terrible for QBs.  That could/should make Watson very in-demand this coming off-season.  

[LeGOATski]

Ya hate to see it

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So here's a question from a different perspective (I should probably start another thread, but I can't stomach Yet Another Watson Thread clogging up the board):

 

Suppose Ross waives a fairy wand and all Watson's legal troubles vanish like Dust in the Wind.

Watson gets traded to Miami

 

====> Is it a given he's the same blue-chip, top-of-the-league QB that he was in 2019 and 2020 in Houston?

 

Assume his skill level is unimpaired (a big assumption since I think there's some "use it or lose it" in field vision and decision making)

 

What's on my mind is the ever-elusive "locker room leadership" intangible.

 

Over and over we hear that the guys play harder for Josh because they know he will put it all on the line, put it all out there to win for the team; he won't make "career decisions" and hold back. 

 

Watson has just pulled the ultimate "career decision" of quitting on his teammates and holding back to get what he wants (out of Houston).  Will that automagically be washed away on the first brilliant downfield scoring drive saved by a scramble and a top-of-the-league deep pass? 

 

Or will it linger in the back of his new teammates minds, like the stench of a dead woodchuck under the porch "He quit on his Houston peeps, will he quit on us?"

Winning cures everything, and talent makes this whole league overlook things like this. Players compartmentalize pretty well imo. If you've been catching balls from Brissett or Tua, or blocking for him, and you show up to practice day 1 and see throws that make your jaw drop... I just can't picture a football guy not getting swept up in the excitement... and thats ignoring his potential to make you look good and stack up a fat contract. 

 

Is he going to be popular in a team setting, locker room, meetings, yes for sure. They're PROFESSIONAL football players. 

 

Do I think he's getting invited to cook outs? Likely no, even if the player can overlook it, how well is that going to go over with the wife's on the team?

 

  It's sad on any level what sexual impulses do to people, on any level. Especially at this extreme, but I think every guy has let their drive cause them to make decisions they normally wouldn't when kitty's involved. Our over sexualized culture has done so much damage. Scares me as a father /rant

[JohnNord]

I wouldn’t say the trade is unlikely.  

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I wouldn’t say the trade is unlikely.  

The report is that it is unlikely to take place prior to the trade deadline due to the stipulations put forth by Miami 

[gonzo1105]

So I guess I want to ask in a polite diligent way. The rumors when Watson first wanted to be traded, before the allegations, was two fold. First he didn’t trust the Texans to build a team around him after shipping away Hopkins, Bill O’Brian being a tool etc. The 2nd rumor was that Watson wanted to go specifically to the Dolphins because I believe that they are the only team in the NFL that has an African American Head Coach/GM combo. 
 

If the Dolphins go up in flames and Grier and/or Flores is fired, is that still going to be Watsons preferred destination? 

[DJB]

12 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

So I guess I want to ask in a polite diligent way. The rumors when Watson first wanted to be traded, before the allegations, was two fold. First he didn’t trust the Texans to build a team around him after shipping away Hopkins, Bill O’Brian being a tool etc. The 2nd rumor was that Watson wanted to go specifically to the Dolphins because I believe that they are the only team in the NFL that has an African American Head Coach/GM combo. 
 

If the Dolphins go up in flames and Grier and/or Flores is fired, is that still going to be Watsons preferred destination? 

 

Honestly looking back I think all that was a bunch of crap and he was trying to get out of Houston because of these now brought up allegations. Maybe he had an inkling that someone was going to complain and maybe he hope if he went away so would these women. 

 

Dude is a moron. I hope he never takes another snap in the NFL

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

The report is that it is unlikely to take place prior to the trade deadline due to the stipulations put forth by Miami 

Miami needs to fire everyone.  They let a trade offer go public with the stipulation that the guy with 22 rape allegations somehow clear up his leagl trouble in one week.  Meanwhile their second year QB has to field questions about his feelings.  Complete s show.

[Billznut]

37 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Miami needs to fire everyone.  They let a trade offer go public with the stipulation that the guy with 22 rape allegations somehow clear up his leagl trouble in one week.  Meanwhile their second year QB has to field questions about his feelings.  Complete s show.

They eventually will fire everyone. But the owner will remain and he is a huge problem and the main reason that franchise has been a dumpster fire for 20-25 years now. 

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Miami needs to fire everyone.  They let a trade offer go public with the stipulation that the guy with 22 rape allegations somehow clear up his leagl trouble in one week.  Meanwhile their second year QB has to field questions about his feelings.  Complete s show.

 

It is not 22 rape allegations to be clear. It is 22 civil suits containing accusations of sexual misconduct, two of which allege sexual assault - those being coercive behaviour to induce oral sex. The allegations are mostly about inappropriate sexual touching and indecent exposure. Not that I am in any way trying to suggest those are not in themselves serious allegations, they are. But they are not rape allegations.

[Scott7975]

12 hours ago, DJB said:

 

Honestly looking back I think all that was a bunch of crap and he was trying to get out of Houston because of these now brought up allegations. Maybe he had an inkling that someone was going to complain and maybe he hope if he went away so would these women. 

 

Dude is a moron. I hope he never takes another snap in the NFL

 

I have actually had this same thought and had it since I first heard about the allegations.  The timing of everything just fits this.

[Big Blitz]

No trade till March:

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

No trade till March:

 

 

Their season will end Sunday so not necessarily 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is not 22 rape allegations to be clear. It is 22 civil suits containing accusations of sexual misconduct, two of which allege sexual assault - those being coercive behaviour to induce oral sex. The allegations are mostly about inappropriate sexual touching and indecent exposure. Not that I am in any way trying to suggest those are not in themselves serious allegations, they are. But they are not rape allegations.

 

I dunno about UK law, but just a little note that in Texas, "Sexual assault" is the legal term for rape.

 

https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-sexual-assault-laws.html/

Quote

Sexual assault, commonly known as rape, occurs when a defendant -- intentionally and knowingly -- commits any of a number of prohibited sexual activities listed under Texas' sexual assault law without the victim's consent.

 

Correct that 20 of the 22 civil suits do not allege sexual assault (rape).  The NY Times did a pretty good summary if anyone still cares.

[DCOrange]

14 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

So I guess I want to ask in a polite diligent way. The rumors when Watson first wanted to be traded, before the allegations, was two fold. First he didn’t trust the Texans to build a team around him after shipping away Hopkins, Bill O’Brian being a tool etc. The 2nd rumor was that Watson wanted to go specifically to the Dolphins because I believe that they are the only team in the NFL that has an African American Head Coach/GM combo. 
 

If the Dolphins go up in flames and Grier and/or Flores is fired, is that still going to be Watsons preferred destination? 

I think it was also that Watson just flat out hates the Texans owner, president, GM, etc. Beyond just the moves they make, he hates them as people. And he likely also likes the idea of living in Miami.

 

It has gone from "Miami is just a QB away" to "Tua is one of the only reasons they have a chance in games right now" though which you'd think would give him some pause (but it doesn't sound like it has).

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about UK law, but just a little note that in Texas, "Sexual assault" is the legal term for rape.

 

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about UK law, but just a little note that in Texas, "Sexual assault" is the legal term for rape.

 

https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-sexual-assault-laws.html/

 

Correct that 20 of the 22 civil suits do not allege sexual assault (rape).  The NY Times did a pretty good summary if anyone still cares.

 

Correct that 20 of the 22 civil suits do not allege sexual assault (rape).  The NY Times did a pretty good summary if anyone still cares.

 

So in the UK serious sexual assault and rape are different. In the 2 particular allegations with Watson that reach that bar I suspect they would be tried as sexual assault based on the description of "coercion" rather than as rape. In the UK manipulating someone into sexual activity is usually sexual assault and forced sexual activity is rape. Hard to know without more detail but certainly possible they would be prosecuted as rape. Interesting to know that they two terms are used interchangeably in Texas. Of course, these remain at this stage civil claims and in the UK the technical term for such a claim would be a "trespass against the person." No idea if that makes a difference in Texan law. 

[Mat68]

By what margin do the Bills need to win by for the Dolphins to panic and pay the Texans a kings ransom?  21?  I think 35 to 14 does it.  

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

By what margin do the Bills need to win by for the Dolphins to panic and pay the Texans a kings ransom?  21?  I think 35 to 14 does it.  

 

At this point 1-6 it doesn't matter considering that the Dolphins season has already......

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

By what margin do the Bills need to win by for the Dolphins to panic and pay the Texans a kings ransom?  21?  I think 35 to 14 does it.  

This week doesn’t matter. It’s next week when the Texans go to Miami.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

This week doesn’t matter. It’s next week when the Texans go to Miami.

 

They lose that one I could see Flores getting the boot.

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I think it was also that Watson just flat out hates the Texans owner, president, GM, etc. Beyond just the moves they make, he hates them as people. And he likely also likes the idea of living in Miami.

 

It has gone from "Miami is just a QB away" to "Tua is one of the only reasons they have a chance in games right now" though which you'd think would give him some pause (but it doesn't sound like it has).

 

 

Watson was upset that ownership didn't value his opinion on the direction of the franchise.   It's generally believed that teams do that with their QB's..........though it's not really true in most cases(ask Brady and Rodgers).    Then he got exposed as a sexual predator and perhaps it's a little more understandable why Houston might have wanted to treat him like a player on the team instead of a co-owner.   Now he looks like a total creep and just wants to get away.  Miami sounds like a good place to hide.  Big city,  lower moral bar to clear,  not a rabid pro fan base etc........nice place to hide in plain sight while he tries to re-build his image/career.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Watson was upset that ownership didn't value his opinion on the direction of the franchise.   It's generally believed that teams do that with their QB's..........though it's not really true in most cases(ask Brady and Rodgers).    Then he got exposed as a sexual predator and perhaps it's a little more understandable why Houston might have wanted to treat him like a player on the team instead of a co-owner.   Now he looks like a total creep and just wants to get away.  Miami sounds like a good place to hide.  Big city,  lower moral bar to clear,  not a rabid pro fan base etc........nice place to hide in plain sight while he tries to re-build his image/career.

 

I mean they did get Rodgers and LaFleur to speak on the phone before he was offered the Green Bay job..... they haven't cut Aaron out of the decision making in Green Bay as much as he likes to portray. That said, can't disagree with you that if the ownership in Houston had even an inkling of Watson's alleged off the field behaviour it makes sense not to hitch your whole waggon to him. Houston's ownership is totally incompetent though. 

[TheFunPolice]

I just hope this drags into the offseason and a bunch of teams become involved, causing him to go the NFC.

 

2 plusses:

 

1) One less top QB in our way

2) One more top QB in Brady's way

[JohnNord]

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

[TheFunPolice]

I like how Flores repeats the question in a condescending way before not answering it...

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

At this point Tua’s agent has to be demanding his client be traded out of there 

[Blank Stare]

35 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

[mannc]

48 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I like how Flores repeats the question in a condescending way before not answering it...

 

 

He’s in an impossible position…either flat-out lie or be evasive and slippery…he’s not very good at it.

[JDubya76]

Flores is not wrong. He is the coach, not the gm. It doesn’t seem like the Phins structure allows the coach as much input as our system does. I would hazard a guess that maybe that the gm’s silence and that he doesn’t have direct input may be a source of his visible frustration. Either way, Flores can’t really talk about someone on another team.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 

 

I don't know why he didn't just say "I'm not the General Manager of this team". Seems like an easy out. I'd just say:

 

"He and I discuss a lot of scenarios. The likely and the very unlikely alike. And I'd like to think he bases some of his decisions off these discussions. But they're always hypothetical, until they're not. When he makes a move, he'll talk to me a little just before it goes down to make sure we're on the same page. But I'm not the General Manager of this team. I'm not looking over his shoulder all day, asking for updates on everything he's doing and looking into. I'm focusing on coaching the players I have and the day to day that goes with that."

Edited October 29, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I think it was also that Watson just flat out hates the Texans owner, president, GM, etc. Beyond just the moves they make, he hates them as people. And he likely also likes the idea of living in Miami.

 

It has gone from "Miami is just a QB away" to "Tua is one of the only reasons they have a chance in games right now" though which you'd think would give him some pause (but it doesn't sound like it has).

 

Well I guess I would question why he signed that contract then.  

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So in the UK serious sexual assault and rape are different. In the 2 particular allegations with Watson that reach that bar I suspect they would be tried as sexual assault based on the description of "coercion" rather than as rape. In the UK manipulating someone into sexual activity is usually sexual assault and forced sexual activity is rape. Hard to know without more detail but certainly possible they would be prosecuted as rape. Interesting to know that they two terms are used interchangeably in Texas. Of course, these remain at this stage civil claims and in the UK the technical term for such a claim would be a "trespass against the person." No idea if that makes a difference in Texan law. 

 

Its fairly similar here.  Might be state dependent but sexual assault is any form of unwanted sexual contact like fondling, touching, and can include rape.  Rape is unwanted penetration.

[JohnNord]

54 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I don't know why he didn't just say "I'm not the General Manager of this team". Seems like an easy out. I'd just say:

 

"He and I discuss a lot of scenarios. The likely and the very unlikely alike. And I'd like to think he bases some of his decisions off these discussions. But they're always hypothetical, until they're not. When he makes a move, he'll talk to me a little just before it goes down to make sure we're on the same page. But I'm not the General Manager of this team. I'm not looking over his shoulder all day, asking for updates on everything he's doing and looking into. I'm focusing on coaching the players I have and the day to day that goes with that."

That definitely would’ve been the better approach.  The problem is most of the press knows that Flores probably has the biggest say in football decision despite his title.  I just wonder if he’d be digging himself into a Doug Whaley hole by playing dumb.

 

Either way, Miami did a terrible of job prepping him for the questions.  

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

 

This is almost as bad as when Whaley said he wasn't privy to the details of that conversation.

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

 

 

 

He was proven a loser week 17 last season.

 

 

I wonder how many people he has told "I wanted Herbert."

 

Which I'm sure would be a lie to.  

 

Tua should tell the team to pound sand - he knows he's not going to be there next season.  Why risk injury for a franchise that's going to dump you?

 

I'm sure it's what Deshawn Watson would do.  This is the NBA now right?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Punching Bag]

On 10/28/2021 at 2:53 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Watson has just pulled the ultimate "career decision" of quitting on his teammates and holding back to get what he wants (out of Houston).  Will that automagically be washed away on the first brilliant downfield scoring drive saved by a scramble and a top-of-the-league deep pass? 

 

Or will it linger in the back of his new teammates minds, like the stench of a dead woodchuck under the porch "He quit on his Houston peeps, will he quit on us?"

 

 

 

Some will have no issue (career first), some will give him a chance and some will not ever support him.

The key is of course those in middle unless one of the ends has majority of the weight already.

 

Now if the Phish change their name to the Sharks he will fit in much better.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 10/28/2021 at 3:48 PM, Doc said:

Yeah this upcoming draft looks terrible for QBs.  That could/should make Watson very in-demand this coming off-season.  

 

Especially in court.

[K-9]

5 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

Flores didn’t not say he’d like Watson. He also didn’t not say Tua wasn’t his QB, either.

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Miami press absolutely grilled Flores and his response was terrible.  It’s 100% clear they want Watson.   A really bad look for the franchise - reminds me of a mix between Rex Ryan’s final games in 2016 and Doug Whaley’s “I wasn’t privy” press conference 
 

 

 

Well - I was reading a thread about how this is the week that Tua blows up and is the QB Miami wants.  
 

Just a terrible job by the HC and Flores just looks defeated.  He can’t even look the room in the eye.  Terrible posture and terrible speaking - he needs to be released.  
 

Miami has eaten him up.

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Well - I was reading a thread about how this is the week that Tua blows up and is the QB Miami wants.  
 

Just a terrible job by the HC and Flores just looks defeated.  He can’t even look the room in the eye.  Terrible posture and terrible speaking - he needs to be released.  
 

Miami has eaten him up.

 

 

I mean you're not supposed to be worse in year 3 of your rebuild than in year 1. 🤷‍♂️

[JohnNord]

19 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Flores didn’t not say he’d like Watson. He also didn’t not say Tua wasn’t his QB, either.

can you not see that the handling of this situation is a terrible look for Flores as a leader?