Harrison Phillips knee injury

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

15 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The interview is on Bills Twitter and they talk injuries right away. McDermott said they didn't have any long term injuries and the longest he said was potentially a week or two.

I look forward to listening. I wonder why MLJ said this.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Giuseppe Tognarelli

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

One thing though, in order for this to work the player cut has to not be open to Waivers (cause if they are and another team claims them they don't have the option to sign with the Bills.)

 

Good point - as a player with 3 seasons, Phillips is subject to waivers, so an injury settlement would have him "waived, injured" meaning another team could claim him.

 

[NickelCity]

12 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I do hope is not serious. Right now Phillips is better than Butler. I would much rather have Harry getting snaps than him. 

 

This right here. Butler is doing nothing, even with all the pressure for roster spots.

[billsbackto81]

40 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Time to cut bait. He seems like a good dude but can't stay healthy. 

I'm just curious. It appears a few disagree with my opinion on releasing him. First let me say I respect your opinion as you are of course entitled. But honestly what has he shown in the 3 seasons he's been here? We were all hoping he'd become the second coming of our beloved Meatball. In 3 seasons he's been active 31 games and started 3. He has a grand total of 0.5 sacks in that time. He's only played 33% of defensive plays on average even when healthy and a lot of times appeared over matched. I get that he's a good dude with high character and is community active but that doesn't win games. Please, give me some type of reason as to why he should be kept? Jordan Phillips was much more productive and he wasn't retained although I understand not wanting to pay 10 mil. per like Arizona did. Meh, maybe I'm wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. JMO..

[Utah John]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

Time to cut bait. He seems like a good dude but can't stay healthy. 

I don't see why.  Keeping him on IR and letting him compete next summer seems like a good bet.  The guy can really play when healthy.  

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good point - as a player with 3 seasons, Phillips is subject to waivers, so an injury settlement would have him "waived, injured" meaning another team could claim him.

 

What other team would claim him?  They're all trying to cut down to 53 and won't have room for an injured guy, not unless the guy has a proven track record which Phillips doesn't.  I would like to see him IR'd and give him another shot next year.

4 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I'm just curious. It appears a few disagree with my opinion on releasing him. First let me say I respect your opinion as you are of course entitled. But honestly what has he shown in the 3 seasons he's been here? We were all hoping he'd become the second coming of our beloved Meatball. In 3 seasons he's been active 31 games and started 3. He has a grand total of 0.5 sacks in that time. He's only played 33% of defensive plays on average even when healthy and a lot of times appeared over matched. I get that he's a good dude with high character and is community active but that doesn't win games. Please, give me some type of reason as to why he should be kept? Jordan Phillips was much more productive and he wasn't retained although I understand not wanting to pay 10 mil. per like Arizona did. Meh, maybe I'm wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. JMO..

All good points.  It's seemed as if every time Phillips starts to really figure things out and become productive, he gets hurt.  So he doesn't have the stats that we'd like to see.  But what we HAVE seen is production at the times when he's gotten healthy.  Maybe he doesn't make this year's 53 but things could look a lot different next year.

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Wasn't that Eric Woods first few years too?

I was going to look it up, but yeah.   A couple years in a row, down with injuries.  Then he was a stud until the final injury.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

I don't see why.  Keeping him on IR and letting him compete next summer seems like a good bet.  The guy can really play when healthy.  

What other team would claim him?  They're all trying to cut down to 53 and won't have room for an injured guy, not unless the guy has a proven track record which Phillips doesn't.  I would like to see him IR'd and give him another shot next year.

 

So here's the problem with that last: this is Phillips' contract year, 4th year.  If we IR him this year, he's a FA next year, with a track record of 1 OK season + 3 games, remainder of 1 season on IR, and a "return year" where he was a healthy scratch 1/4 of the season.  That's not gonna get him much of a new contract.

 

If the Bills IR him for the season, he's gonna ask for an injury settlement/release and, if unclaimed, try to catch on somewhere else once he's healthy and can work out, so he can show he's worth a decent 2nd contract.  As to "what other team?" it would be a team with a relatively weak DL that thinks he's an improvement on their other players based on his film this preseason and at the end of last season.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

23 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

One thing though, in order for this to work the player cut has to not be open to Waivers (cause if they are and another team claims them they don't have the option to sign with the Bills.)

 

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good point - as a player with 3 seasons, Phillips is subject to waivers, so an injury settlement would have him "waived, injured" meaning another team could claim him.

 

 

Agree.  I looked up what you said Hap and it was true but I knew something was put in place for teams not to be able to "stash" young guys using

this.  Thanks Cpt Caveman for your input.  If memory serves (I'm old and it ain't what it use to be) this rule got put in around the time that

they started letting players come back from IR without being "designated to return". 

 

I imagine a lot of board members don't give a rats behind about this stuff but some of us do.  LOL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I was going to look it up, but yeah.   A couple years in a row, down with injuries.  Then he was a stud until the final injury.  

 

Yeah, Wood missed 6 games of his rookie season and 7 games of his 3rd year on IR.  Then, depending on who you listen to, he either had better luck or he learned how to play "within himself" better to avoid injury.

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I'm just curious. It appears a few disagree with my opinion on releasing him. First let me say I respect your opinion as you are of course entitled. But honestly what has he shown in the 3 seasons he's been here? We were all hoping he'd become the second coming of our beloved Meatball. In 3 seasons he's been active 31 games and started 3. He has a grand total of 0.5 sacks in that time. He's only played 33% of defensive plays on average even when healthy and a lot of times appeared over matched. I get that he's a good dude with high character and is community active but that doesn't win games. Please, give me some type of reason as to why he should be kept? Jordan Phillips was much more productive and he wasn't retained although I understand not wanting to pay 10 mil. per like Arizona did. Meh, maybe I'm wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. JMO..

Look, it's obviously anyone's guess.  But Jordan Phillips was drafted higher, and he didn't light it up in his early years.  For most guys, it takes a few years to grow into the league, both in terms of strength and knowledge.  Harrison Phillips got drafted because he had the basic physique and athleticism that made him project as a long-term player in the league.  He has the potential, but he hasn't had the benefit of being on the field a lot.   So, the question is whether you think he's always going to be hurt.   If that's what you believe, then you let him go.   If you think he's just had a bad run of injuries that isn't likely to continue, then you probably keep him. 

 

My rule is that you're better off cutting talent too late than too early.   Cut him too late, you wasted a roster spot for a year.   Cut him too early, and you missed out on a talented guy for five or six years.  

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

My rule is that you're better off cutting talent too late than too early.   Cut him too late, you wasted a roster spot for a year.   Cut him too early, and you missed out on a talented guy for five or six years.  

Wyatt Teller agrees with this take. 

[Warcodered]

37 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I look forward to listening. I wonder why MLJ said this.

I suppose since when specifically asked about Phillips he said he could miss some time. I just don't know if that's actually a long time or he means the week or two he said instead a few days that he also said.

[billsbackto81]

14 minutes ago, BTB said:

Wyatt Teller agrees with this take. 

Wish they gave him as much time to develop as Phillips. Oh well, Brownies got a good one.

[ProcessTruster]

this is why I don't begrudge the $$ pro athletes make.  could all be gone tommorow.  

 

its Boogie time

Edited August 22, 2021 by ProcessTruster
more info

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Any word on Zimmer?

[BaaadThingsMan]

Harrison continues his almost there nfl career. You gotta feel for the man.

 

Tough time for an injury, this could be his best shot at significant playing time or it could lead to his release. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Any word on Zimmer?

Sounded like standard GameDay getting banged up.

[Dablitzkrieg]

22 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Any word on Zimmer?

Hes fine

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.  So what we did last year with (I believe it was) Tommy Sweeney could work.  Sweeney, who had a foot injury, was on the initial 53.

To accomodate him, we actually cut a player we truly wanted to keep, Andre Roberts, whom other teams immediately tried to sign. 

 

Roberts had a "gentleman's agreement" with Beane, which he honored.  As soon as the season began, Sweeney was placed on IR and Roberts was re-signed at his original contract, but with his season's salary fully guaranteed as it would have been if he'd been on the 53 man roster opening day.

 

Same thing was done with Dean Marlowe who was still talking Bills up on talk circuit between being cut and resigned to roster.  When you are in that situation players' agents should be looking for multiyear contracts IMO.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

If Phillips is just out for a few weeks I think he'll make the 53.  Maybe inactive for a time and then used.  He's been good in the two games, has fought through rehabbing both knees and spent time in the offseason working with the Bills training staff to reshape his body.  He is a "trust the process" player and cutting him loose sends the wrong message to the rest of the team.  I really hope it's minor and not a threat to roster or season status.  From TBN.

 

"Phillips spent the majority of the 2021 offseason in Buffalo, something that Sean McDermott took note of. The head coach recently told reporters that Phillips was at the facility, “helping lead our football team,” throughout the offseason before suggesting that he expects the defensive tackle to take a leap in his second year back from his injury.

In the face of adversity – an ACL tear, a temporary fall down the depth chart, and a brutal postseason loss – Phillips has not only battled back to full health, but he’s also evolved into a leader, a role model who sets the standard for his teammates on and off the field."

 

I do not think Brandon/Sean gives up on this man unless he is unavailable for a longer stretch of time.

[TheBeaneBandit]

Even if we lose Phillips long term I'd still cut Butler and just sign the best 1tech after final cuts. Butler does nothing for me. We have Zimmer and a few DEs to spell Oliver.

[Dukestreetking]

Adding empiricism/anecdotal thoughts to HP injury:

 

To all the ACLers out there, you know it never really goes away. Dings, bangs, little twists, swelling. Always 10-15% worse (temporary) than before even a successful surgery, in my view.

 

So:

(a) no idea re Harry specifics, but could it fall under amorphous ACL syndrome?

(b) interested to hear fr others--I know you're out there--re your ACL experience, as it might relate to Hp going forward.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I suppose since when specifically asked about Phillips he said he could miss some time. I just don't know if that's actually a long time or he means the week or two he said instead a few days that he also said.

I think I saw “week-to-week”

that paired with rap sheet saying it’s not a serious knee injury, I would put it in the category of it doesn’t need surgery but it’s not yet known when he will return 

[vincec]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think I saw “week-to-week”

that paired with rap sheet saying it’s not a serious knee injury, I would put it in the category of it doesn’t need surgery but it’s not yet known when he will return 

After listening to the PC, this sounds right to me too. The interesting thing is that he’s in a battle to make the team and will now probably miss the rest of preseason. So, does he make the team or not? I assume they’re going to give Butler a long look next week so that he can make his case.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

After listening to the PC, this sounds right to me too. The interesting thing is that he’s in a battle to make the team and will now probably miss the rest of preseason. So, does he make the team or not? I assume they’re going to give Butler a long look next week so that he can make his case.

I do think he will make the team. He’s a draft pick of this regime on a cheap Rookie deal and was playing well in TC.  I think butler is on the ropes. 

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think I saw “week-to-week”

that paired with rap sheet saying it’s not a serious knee injury, I would put it in the category of it doesn’t need surgery but it’s not yet known when he will return 

Yeah when talking about all the injuries as a whole he said the longest was potentially a few days to aweek or two and when asked specifically about Philips K took him saying he'd miss some time to be meaning he was in that 1-2 week window. Then again he didn't have enough info on Stevenson so who knows. We'll have a better idea on Thursday. 

[scuba guy]

35 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Adding empiricism/anecdotal thoughts to HP injury:

 

To all the ACLers out there, you know it never really goes away. Dings, bangs, little twists, swelling. Always 10-15% worse (temporary) than before even a successful surgery, in my view.

 

So:

(a) no idea re Harry specifics, but could it fall under amorphous ACL syndrome?

(b) interested to hear fr others--I know you're out there--re your ACL experience, as it might relate to Hp going forward.

Yes I twisted my knee the first time when I was 13 pulling a soccer ball out of the net leg turned foot stayed in the net.

Both coaches herd me yell.

Years later walked down the pool deck and the knee just went sideways. People in the stands were horrified. Docs said if we do the surgery know you will be laid up for 1 years plus given the recovery time.

 

So they did a smaller procedure to repair it had knee brace on put still swan good threpy they said. Came back stronger senior years walked to the bus to go to a soccer game and went right to the ground (dam rubber mats).

All through college and work wore a small bracelet had it cleaned up several times and 5 surgies later still very weak go it replaced and now I have never felt better and it does not burn every day like it used to.

 

Should have done it 30 years ago.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

I remember on the old BBMB a lot of people saying move on from Kyle Williams when he had repeated bone spur issues in the middle of his career.  But at the same time that was a different team. This team is deep and its a hard roster to make, whether its bad luck, bad genes, weak joints whatever, availability has to factor in.

[Dukestreetking]

22 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

All through college and work wore a small bracelet had it cleaned up several times and 5 surgies later still very weak go it replaced

Thanks for that Scuba. Exact thing I'm trying to convey. Even w all the amazing advances in surgery (I've had 3x ACLs) it's still there.

 

Maybe one of our docs can clue us in re: successful surgery vs what I've termed Amorphous ACL Syndrome"...the kind of thing where "yeah, I'm good, but I keep getting the nagging nicks".

 

** Uhhh, I'm not a medical pro, nor claim any such expertise

[HardyBoy]

17 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I remember on the old BBMB a lot of people saying move on from Kyle Williams when he had repeated bone spur issues in the middle of his career.  But at the same time that was a different team. This team is deep and its a hard roster to make, whether its bad luck, bad genes, weak joints whatever, availability has to factor in.

Agree, but the IR and practice squad rules the last two years make it a lot easier to keep players available, but let them actually recoup more from injuries. Beane and McD love to give rookies a break early or middle of the season and then have them peaking again when they start figuring out the mental part the last quarter of the season. 
 

They seem to have workloads pretty well organized across a season where players get chunks where they are less critical in the game plans as a way to manage snaps and workloads in a way I have not seen an nfl team do in the past (doesn’t mean it never happened).

Edited August 23, 2021 by HardyBoy

[wppete]

Awful news

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's time to move on from Phillips. He is not big enough to play the1 tech and not athletic enough to play the #3. 

Next yest the first two picks need to be C and NT.

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

I think a lot of us really want Harry to succeed - he’s such a good dude, and when healthy, a good player.  
 

That said, the staff loves Zimmer, and Harry isn’t noticeably better than Butler… Love to keep all of them, but if we have to choose, you’ve got to pick the guy who stays healthy.  

100%    Harry is in his final year of his contract,...He may be gone anyways next year.   You have to play your healthy and most available players.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Anyone have any clue how injury settlements work? I imagine it has to do with the specific players contract value?

 

Injury settlement means he is released and can sign a contract with any team except Buffalo.

 

 

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.  So what we did last year with (I believe it was) Tommy Sweeney could work.  Sweeney, who had a foot injury, was on the initial 53.

To accomodate him, we actually cut a player we truly wanted to keep, Andre Roberts, whom other teams immediately tried to sign. 

 

Roberts had a "gentleman's agreement" with Beane, which he honored.  As soon as the season began, Sweeney was placed on IR and Roberts was re-signed at his original contract, but with his season's salary fully guaranteed as it would have been if he'd been on the 53 man roster opening day.

 

I thought there may have been a little extra cash involved too.

[hemma]

I am disinclined to discard a loyal fire hydrant.

 

If he’s ready for week 5 & week 6, he’ll make a ++ difference.

[MAJBobby]

My Honest Opinion. 
 

it is either Phillips or Zimmer. Both are not making it and are essentially the same player. Sooooo. Stay with Zimmer because availability matters in this league. 

[John from Riverside]

I’ve actually been pretty impressed with Brandon Bryant and would keep him over Butler

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Even if we lose Phillips long term I'd still cut Butler and just sign the best 1tech after final cuts. Butler does nothing for me. We have Zimmer and a few DEs to spell Oliver.

 

So you're the BeaneBandit because if you could, you'd steal Beane's mojo and replace it with a pungent sock?

 

The question isn't who spells Oliver, it's who spells Lotulelei, and the answer isn't "some dude off the street that no other team wants"

We saw last year that it took Butler some time to figure out his role as a 1T in this defense .  By the end of last season he was filling it capably, so we want to throw him out and bring in some other guy who may take time to figure it out - if he can do it at all?  (remember Peko tried and got cut pretty quickly)

 

If there's someone they have reason to believe is better available, they will sign him - but they won't pre-emptively cut someone who has shown they can play in this system, even if they do nothing for you.

 

7 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Less than an hour ago, McDermott did not give this impression; many were saying it sounded like IR is coming (I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but I'm going based off MLJ's tweet and others). Now this from Rapoport right away. Methinks this is coming from Phillips' agent.

 

I listened to McDermott's presser and I don't think he intended to give the impression IR was coming. 

 

He said he didn't know as much as he'd like, doctors were still reviewing films.  He said nothing "long term" as far as he knew as yet, maybe a couple of weeks.  I think his intent was to say Phillips might be on the long end and others on the short end of that. 

 

But of course, with these injuries there is often swelling and the trainers have to get that down before there can be a good quality MRI to tell what's really going on in there.

[TheBeaneBandit]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So you're the BeaneBandit because if you could, you'd steal Beane's mojo and replace it with a pungent sock?

 

The question isn't who spells Oliver, it's who spells Lotulelei, and the answer isn't "some dude off the street that no other team wants"

 

I listened to McDermott's presser and I don't think he intended to give the impression IR was coming.  He said he didn't know as much as he'd like, doctors were still reviewing films.  He said nothing "long term" as far as he knew as yet, maybe a couple of weeks.  I think his intent was to say Phillips might be on the long end and others on the short end of that.

It isn't Vernon Butler either, that's for sure.

[Da webster guy]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.  So what we did last year with (I believe it was) Tommy Sweeney could work.  Sweeney, who had a foot injury, was on the initial 53.

To accomodate him, we actually cut a player we truly wanted to keep, Andre Roberts, whom other teams immediately tried to sign. 

 

Roberts had a "gentleman's agreement" with Beane, which he honored.  As soon as the season began, Sweeney was placed on IR and Roberts was re-signed at his original contract, but with his season's salary fully guaranteed as it would have been if he'd been on the 53 man roster opening day.

 

That's right I remember that now.  Roberts did get a bunch of offers too.   Still surprised the Jets let him go, and now we were crazy enough to do the same thing.  All Pro kick returner in his prime.   

 

Anyway, I don't see where it makes sense to just cut 99 here.  He's playing well and is in good shape otherwise, give the kid one more chance here with IR and lets see if he can turn it around.  Feel so awful for the guy he has worked so hard and now this.   I'm assuming the knee brace he was wearing during the game probably saved him from being done for the year.  They say those surgically repaired knees can be 100% if rehabbed properly.   

 

If Willis Mcgahee can come back from his disasterous knee injury, Harry can get past this setback.