Tasker & Brown don't know the cap rules

[Albany,n.y.]

They are on the air and think bonus money can be spread out over the remaining 8 years.  Now I must admit I only learned this last Friday when I saw the Sportrac numbers, and then looked up the salary cap rules, but the cap rules are a team can only spread out the bonus for 5 years.  So the $16.5 million Josh got is spread out over the next 5 seasons not the next 8.  Next year's bonus will be spread out from 2022 through 2026.  They had all weekend to learn this but didn't before they went on the air today.  

[YoloinOhio]

As long as Beane knows, that’s all that matters. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

They are on the air and think bonus money can be spread out over the remaining 8 years.  Now I must admit I only learned this last Friday when I saw the Sportrac numbers, and then looked up the salary cap rules, but the cap rules are a team can only spread out the bonus for 5 years.  So the $16.5 million Josh got is spread out over the next 5 seasons not the next 8.  Next year's bonus will be spread out from 2022 through 2026.  They had all weekend to learn this but didn't before they went on the air today.  

I have to admit that I haven't read or heard anything from the two of them in a month or more.   I'm not reading and listening to every last thing any more, but if I'm looking for quality in depth stuff, they aren't the go-to source.  Plus, of course, they're slow. 

 

Not to beat up on them, but it seems to me that if that were my job, I would be on top of the mechanics of the cap rules.  Personally, I'm not terrifically interested in them - Beane will manage the cap as he sees fit.  I care about the football, not the business of football.  But if my job is to cover the team, my full time job, the business of football is an important subject.   I'd like to think if I had their job, I'd make it my business to understand the ins and outs - and cap consequences - of Josh's contract.  

[eball]

Chris Brown is a Bills’ shill who loves to hear himself speak, yet rarely says anything enlightening.

 

Steve Tasker was a wonderful ST ace and pretty good WR.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

As long as Beane knows, that’s all that matters. 

I agree that's all that matters. But, it also really irks me when (and Shaw kind of said the same) I'm listening to people whose job it is to discuss the Bills and inform us and yet I know facts that they do not. Just seems lazy. In this case, the cap hit of our largest contract in team history seems relatively important for them to know and be able to inform their customers, the listeners, about.

[RiotAct]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 I'm not reading and listening to every last thing any more, but if I'm looking for quality in depth stuff, they aren't the go-to source.  Plus, of course, they're slow. 

 

whoa now.

[Doc]

According to Spotrac, Josh has (just) a $16.5M signing bonus which is spread-out over 2021-2025.  Not sure why 2026-2028 aren't included but that's why I'm not getting the big bucks.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

whoa now.

Slow to report stuff.   They can't say it until the Bills have said it publicly. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

I agree that's all that matters. But, it also really irks me when (and Shaw kind of said the same) I'm listening to people whose job it is to discuss the Bills and inform us and yet I know facts that they do not. Just seems lazy. In this case, the cap hit of our largest contract in team history seems relatively important for them to know and be able to inform their customers, the listeners, about.

Listen to the daily joe Marino “locked on bills” podcast instead for any real information and credible analysis. OBL is just for fun banter.  How I see it. 

[Billosopher]

Chris Brown can not make any point or non point with out yelling like a tard. Dude is super annoying. And Tasker can not say a sentence without using the phrase "I get it"  his tomb stone will say here lies Steve Tasker he finally got it.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Tasker does no research or prep for the job.

 

Not knowing a detail about the salary cap doesn't even register on the list of mistakes he makes daily..........as Yolo says that show is just banter.

[John from Riverside]

50 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

They are on the air and think bonus money can be spread out over the remaining 8 years.  Now I must admit I only learned this last Friday when I saw the Sportrac numbers, and then looked up the salary cap rules, but the cap rules are a team can only spread out the bonus for 5 years.  So the $16.5 million Josh got is spread out over the next 5 seasons not the next 8.  Next year's bonus will be spread out from 2022 through 2026.  They had all weekend to learn this but didn't before they went on the air today.  

I think it is important to note that along the way of this mega deal Josh Allen is going to restructure it as needed to get who we want..........

 

Josh Allen probably retires a Buffalo Bill

[BringBackFergy]

Tasker is always licking his gums and smacking his lips like he just ate a bowlful of Cool Ranch Doritos and the soda machine is out of order. 

[ProcessTruster]

49 minutes ago, eball said:

Chris Brown is a Bills’ shill who loves to hear himself speak, yet rarely says anything enlightening.

 

Steve Tasker was a wonderful ST ace and pretty good WR.

Tasker gets a pass for that amazing playoff ad he did last year

 

[TPS]

51 minutes ago, Doc said:

According to Spotrac, Josh has (just) a $16.5M signing bonus which is spread-out over 2021-2025.  Not sure why 2026-2028 aren't included but that's why I'm not getting the big bucks.

That is the point made by the OP, the rules state you can only spread it over a max of 5 years.

[thenorthremembers]

If you listened to every podcast, radio show, and TV show about football you'd see that a lot of these guys dont know as much as they pretend to.   If you spent enough time with any of us at work, you'd probably see the same thing. 

[DrDawkinstein]

I think the point they were trying to make (albeit poorly) is that the Bills get to spread some of the new deal money over Josh's low rookie deal.

 

Whether they get to spread it out over 5 or 8 years is less the point than being able to move future money into this year where he is only set to make $10M.

 

Before this thread, I too thought the Bills could spread it out over 8 years. But I am not a pro, and oh well. At least we still get to use this year on a deal that doesnt start until 2023.

[The Dean]

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Tasker does no research or prep for the job.

 

 

THIS is my biggest issue with Tasker as a broadcaster. I'm certain he didn't become an ace ST player by phoning it in. But virtually every time I see/hear him doing game commentary, it's clear that's exactly what he is doing in his new job. It's an insult to broadcast professionals who take the job seriously and to the audience.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

I agree that's all that matters. But, it also really irks me when (and Shaw kind of said the same) I'm listening to people whose job it is to discuss the Bills and inform us and yet I know facts that they do not. Just seems lazy. In this case, the cap hit of our largest contract in team history seems relatively important for them to know and be able to inform their customers, the listeners, about.

If they didn't lead off today's show with bad information, it wouldn't have upset me.  They could have talked about the contract without talking about stuff they didn't know.

 

I can't beat them up too much because as I said I only learned this on Friday when I didn't understand the numbers shown on Sportrac, but then I never went on the air & gave out bad information.  

Just now, The Dean said:

 

 

THIS is my biggest issue with Tasker as a broadcaster. I'm certain he didn't become an ace ST player by phoning it in. But virtually every time I see/hear him doing game commentary, it's clear that's exactly what he is doing in his new job. It's an insult to broadcast professionals who take the job seriously and to the audience.

The good news is Eric Wood is back as the color man this season.  

[Ned Flanders]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

As long as Beane knows, that’s all that matters. 

The Beane Counter...

 

I'm here all week; try the veal, tip your waiters...

 

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Tasker is always licking his gums and smacking his lips like he just ate a bowlful of Cool Ranch Doritos and the soda machine is out of order. 

 

Yep, the bad takes are expected,  they hardly register with me anymore.

 

The second most annoying thing on WGR is hearing Tasker slurping.

 

Most annoying is Bulldog's relentless stuttering and stammering as he tries to formulate takes.    I know they hired him out of a pizza shop but it's crazy how unprofessional his presentation is after decades of doing it.    Sometimes he's gotta say "I" five times before he can spit out the second word of a take.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

Tasker is always licking his gums and smacking his lips like he just ate a bowlful of Cool Ranch Doritos and the soda machine is out of order. 

That's one of the reasons he is one of the best in the business!

[ndirish1978]

I was going to add a comment agreeing with the OP and half way through I thought "what am I doing?" We're talking about a podcast that is the equivalent of cliffs notes in terms of depth. If you ran this past 90% of listeners they'd probably shrug and not care. For the 10% who would care, they already know what the show is and know other places they can get accurate informtion. I don't really consider this a huge deal or significant negligence on their part, the show is the Bills equivalent of E!

 

If you want to see willful ignorance, we have national media guys like Stephen A Smith refering to Jordan Poyer, who is from Oregon, as Jordan "Po'yeh" as if he were some sort of secret cajun, while others make comments that the Bills were highly motivated to sign Josh because he was getting interest from other teams and was considering not re-signing (smh). Taking that level of "preparation" into account, the minutiae of capology isn't something I'm prepared to drag anyone for. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by ndirish1978

[Rochesterfan]

I know that they get this stuff wrong, but they are just there to provide good feelings to fans.  They do not typically have good info or intel - unless the Bills want them to have something.

 

What I really noticed with the way this is set up is the flexibility built in.  
They have the initial bonus for 5 years starting now (2021-2025).

They have the option bonus next year running (2022-2026).

 

They have the big salary jump for 2023, but the extra years means if they convert the 2023 salary to a signing bonus (ala’ Mahomes and Tre’ White) - they can free up about 10 million in 2023 and spread that out (2023-2027).

 

They can repeat that in 2024 by changing the base salary to bonus and save about 5-7 million for 2024 and spread that out (2024-2028).

 

Then they switch tactics to signing bonuses starting in 2025 and hopefully by that time the salary cap will be balanced out from COVID and more importantly- the new TV money is in place and we see huge jumps in salary cap from 2023 to 2024 and especially in 2025 - allowing this contract to be below new market value as the market skyrockets.

 

[MJS]

I'm not sure why anyone would care or expect those two to understand the intricacies of contracts and signing bonuses.

[Tuco]

Yes a signing bonus can only be prorated over 5 years, and those guys should know that.

 

To the point, the initial signing bonus is $16.5 million spread from 2021 - 2025. But look further on Spotrac or wherever, and you will see $8.48 million listed under "option bonus" for the years 2022 - 2026. Then look at the notes down below you will see an option bonus due in 2022 for $42.4 million. This is the same bonus - $42.4 million = $8.48 million X5.

 

Many people don't realize "option" doesn't mean the team has the option of whether or not to pay the bonus. Actually, sometimes that's exactly what it means, but in most cases, as well as this one, it's referring to a fully guaranteed bonus that the team has the "option" of either charging the whole amount to the cap in the season it's due, or "opting" to turn it into a signing bonus at that time it's due and spreading out the cap hit for 5 years from that point. Rarely is it the former, and since Spotrac knows the plan is to convert the 2nd year bonus when it's due, they already have it listed as prorated for 5 years starting in 2022 when it's paid. In essence, converting next year's option bonus into a signing bonus hasn't been done yet, but when the time comes next off season it will just be a formality - although no doubt people will try to make a big story out of it.

 

Since both bonuses in 2021 and 2022 are fully guaranteed, this actually amounts to the Bills giving Josh a $58.9 million ($16.5+$42.4) signing bonus, but using the "option" bonus in year 2 as a way to spread the whole $58.9 million over the next 6 years instead of only 5, AND keep the cap charge relatively low in the first year. Teams do this with bigger contracts all the time.

 

I didn't listen to Brown and Tasker, I never do. But this is what they should have known, and the point they may have been trying to make. But any talk of spreading anything out over 8 years shows lack of knowledge. Or possibly just a Freudian slip made when speaking? Either way, it's why I never listen to radio sports shows, I get irritated when the supposed experts don't know what they're talking about.

 

And while you've got me ranting (lol), I often feel the same way when I'm amazed at how often game day announcers on TV don't know the rules. Drives me nuts. Thanks for listening.

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Listen to the daily joe Marino “locked on bills” podcast instead for any real information and credible analysis. OBL is just for fun banter.  How I see it. 

Thanks, have been listening to it the past hour.  Informative, not a lot of useless babble and Joe is well spoken.  Much better than trying to listen to the intermittent WGR crap, esp the Bulldog.  Thanks.  

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

I was going to add a comment agreeing with the OP and half way through I thought "what am I doing?" We're talking about a podcast that is the equivalent of cliffs notes in terms of depth. If you ran this past 90% of listeners they'd probably shrug and not care. For the 10% who would care, they already know what the show is and know other places they can get accurate informtion. I don't really consider this a huge deal or significant negligence on their part, the show is the Bills equivalent of E!

 

If you want to see willful ignorance, we have national media guys like Stephen A Smith refering to Jordan Poyer, who is from Oregon, as Jordan "Po'yeh" as if he were some sort of secret cajun, while others make comments that the Bills were highly motivated to sign Josh because he was getting interest from other teams and was considering not re-signing (smh). Taking that level of "preparation" into account, the minutiae of capology isn't something I'm prepared to drag anyone for. 

I've gotten used to the ignorance about the Bills that was on display on the regular season NFL broadcasters.  They weren't really interested in what was going on in Buffalo all those years.  Their attitude was, "well, when you do something we'll pay attention to what you're doing.  Until then, we're sorry, but we simply aren't going to know a lot about you."   Finally, last season, the Bills said, "Hello?  Fellas?   Time to pay attention."  The knowledge gap will narrow, mercifully. 

 

But the point about Tasker and Brown is different.   They have what a lot of us would think would be a dream job - just hanging around the Bills all day, having occasional access to players, coaches, the GM.   All I had to do in return is know what is going on, write some about it, talk some about it.  Well, if it were me, I would think it was my obligation to know enough capology to be able to understand and talk about how the contract might affect the Bills.  That is a pretty important factor as we look to the coming years, with the inevitable flipping of the roster.   Seems to me you're not doing your job if you aren't learning that stuff?

 

Imagine this.   Say, Brown gets a half hour to interview Beane.  They know each other, obviously, have traveled together, had casual conversations.  While they're standing around waiting for some tech guy to hook something up, just chatting, and the subject of Josh's contract came up.  In the course of the conversation, Brown demonstrates to Beane that he doesn't understand capology.  Beane would be gracious about it and gently correct him, but don't you think that Beane's thinking, "What is it with this guy?  He's been here fifteen years and he still doesn't understand this stuff?" 

 

I know it's details, but it's important details.  

 

(I'm chuckling to myself, because personally I've lost pretty much all interest in capology.  I'm just a fan, and I can know and not know about whatever I like.  I know the cap's important, I know there are strategies, and I live in hope that the people responsible for that stuff are taking care of it.)

 

 

[ndirish1978]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Imagine this.   Say, Brown gets a half hour to interview Beane.  They know each other, obviously, have traveled together, had casual conversations.  While they're standing around waiting for some tech guy to hook something up, just chatting, and the subject of Josh's contract came up.  In the course of the conversation, Brown demonstrates to Beane that he doesn't understand capology.  Beane would be gracious about it and gently correct him, but don't you think that Beane's thinking, "What is it with this guy?  He's been here fifteen years and he still doesn't understand this stuff?" 

 

I know it's details, but it's important details.  

 

(I'm chuckling to myself, because personally I've lost pretty much all interest in capology.  I'm just a fan, and I can know and not know about whatever I like.  I know the cap's important, I know there are strategies, and I live in hope that the people responsible for that stuff are taking care of it.)

 

 

 

I understand this point, but if you think any question Brown is asking Beane hasn't been given to Brown by the PR guy I think you're hoping for more than that show is capable of. Back in the day when we were absolutely terrible, press conferences were vicious and then Brown would be called on and lob a ridiculous question like "how does it actually help the team that we're 4-10, does it take pressure off the guys so they can really get out there and develop?" He's not n investigative journalist, he's a team mouthpiece.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

I was going to add a comment agreeing with the OP and half way through I thought "what am I doing?" We're talking about a podcast that is the equivalent of cliffs notes in terms of depth. If you ran this past 90% of listeners they'd probably shrug and not care. For the 10% who would care, they already know what the show is and know other places they can get accurate informtion. I don't really consider this a huge deal or significant negligence on their part, the show is the Bills equivalent of E!

 

If you want to see willful ignorance, we have national media guys like Stephen A Smith refering to Jordan Poyer, who is from Oregon, as Jordan "Po'yeh" as if he were some sort of secret cajun, while others make comments that the Bills were highly motivated to sign Josh because he was getting interest from other teams and was considering not re-signing (smh). Taking that level of "preparation" into account, the minutiae of capology isn't something I'm prepared to drag anyone for. 

So...you would rather not discuss capology when there's so much crapology out there.  Succinct! 😁

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

I understand this point, but if you think any question Brown is asking Beane hasn't been given to Brown by the PR guy I think you're hoping for more than that show is capable of. Back in the day when we were absolutely terrible, press conferences were vicious and then Brown would be called on and lob a ridiculous question like "how does it actually help the team that we're 4-10, does it take pressure off the guys so they can really get out there and develop?" He's not n investigative journalist, he's a team mouthpiece.  

It's a little unfair to Brown, but only a little.  You describe it well.  But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have some level of all-round competence?  The Bills may have hired him to be a mouthpiece, but it's in the Bills' interest that he be competent.  The Bills want clicks, like everyone else, and they lose some eyeballs when the guy demonstrates that he doesn't know the game he's covering.  

 

Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe most listeners don't care about the cap, anyway, and they don't care if Brown doesn't understand it.  All they want is content, any content, about Josh or one of your favorite players.  Any content will do, people will listen no matter how simple it may be.  And maybe a few listeners, who understand and are looking for better content, will go find it.  Maybe the Bills don't care about those few.  

 

Still, if it were my job, I would want to know how this stuff works.   I'd want to now how pass protection schemes work, how the cap works, how the marketing works.  I don't think I could have been there for 15 years and NOT learned those things.  

[HOUSE]

I am easily offended by inaccurate cap spreading

[JESSEFEFFER]

The Bills suspended Chris Brown last year for answering a Tasker question about who was playing where on the OL. Probably an innocent mistake as he had been reporting on his practice observations his entire career.  Tasker asked Beane the theorerical question about cutting an unvaccinated player over a vaccinated one.  I doubt that was cleared by anyone.  I like Brown as the host more than I did Murphy and he tends to keep Tasker on point, often completing his thoughts when he loses them, correcting him for name slips and the like.  Brown is better at the interviews as Steve's thoughts tend to ramble during a the formulation of a question.  Steve is very good a story telling, I think, which is when he is at his best. 

 

Suffice to say there are different types of bonuses that make up the 150 million and there will be cap hits from them all 8 years.  

[Mike in Horseheads]

A few years ago after the fisco in Cleveland, tasker and Brown got into a argument about the play calling. It was great entertainment as Tasker was pouting from Brown pounding to him that it was too conservative. Murphy sat there like a lump of coal shocked at what was going on.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, TPS said:

That is the point made by the OP, the rules state you can only spread it over a max of 5 years.

 

I never knew that myself.  Although why it would just be limited to 5 years and not the life of the contract I guess is the real question.

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

They are on the air and think bonus money can be spread out over the remaining 8 years.  Now I must admit I only learned this last Friday when I saw the Sportrac numbers, and then looked up the salary cap rules, but the cap rules are a team can only spread out the bonus for 5 years.  So the $16.5 million Josh got is spread out over the next 5 seasons not the next 8.  Next year's bonus will be spread out from 2022 through 2026.  They had all weekend to learn this but didn't before they went on the air today.  

Steve Tasker was one of the greatest special teams players of all time.  And a pretty solid WR.  He gave his blood sweat and tears to the Bills.  Was an excellent analyst for CBS, and is a great ambassador for the team....Period.  So he is not 100% up to the speed on the nuances of the salary cap.  SO WHAT!!  

[The Dean]

3 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Steve Tasker was one of the greatest special teams players of all time.  And a pretty solid WR.  He gave his blood sweat and tears to the Bills.  Was an excellent analyst for CBS, and is a great ambassador for the team....Period.  So he is not 100% up to the speed on the nuances of the salary cap.  SO WHAT!!  

 

So what? He's being paid to do a job and his is shirking his duties. That's why. Can you imagine if he approached playing football with the attitude you suggest?  He isn't a football player anymore, he is a broadcaster. His contributions on the field are a completely different matter. I have mad respect for what he did as a Bill. But as a broadcaster, he is cringeworthy.

 

With that said, I think there may be bonus payments that can be spread into later years, if they aren't due until future years. But I'm not positive about that.

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm not sure why anyone would care or expect those two to understand the intricacies of contracts and signing bonuses.

They’d only really need to know that stuff if they were going to talk about it on air.  Oh, wait.  

Edited August 9, 2021 by BarleyNY

[ColoradoBills]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I never knew that myself.  Although why it would just be limited to 5 years and not the life of the contract I guess is the real question.

 

I would think that most teams don't want to pay out too much cash in signing bonuses the first year.

Only a handful of contracts are more than 5 years and for those (especially the high $ ones) there is other ways to give players

guaranteed money.  I've noticed signing bonuses are going down (in % of total contract) and Option and Roster Bonuses are going up.

[TPS]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I never knew that myself.  Although why it would just be limited to 5 years and not the life of the contract I guess is the real question.

Me too, and I"m sure most didn't. 

I would guess it's so teams don't try to game the cap by creating long-term contracts to spread the bonus, when there would be little probability that a player would actually play the entirety of the contract.