EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Anyhthing short of a move to a NON US MARKET, is just he Pegulas posturing and looking for leverage to get their building done.  

 

There is no quote from Pegulas in article.  Someone supposedly stated there are other markets but not say who.

Likely it someone from Legends who told in meeting that unsupported teams have moved in past.

 

it could have been as far as we know Lamar Hunt.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Limeaid

[Nelius]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

Hard for ownership to have a worse month than the Pegulas without moving their teams.  

 

Their PR department is woefully unprepared for the onslaught that's coming from the fans.  

 

Yo Maddie Glibb's got this. Right? Right?! Who else is even in the building? Who is the Buffalo Bills PR department?

[Punching Bag]

25 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

Don't forget about cheap bastards watching from New Zealand!

 

They could not tell difference between rugby and cricket matches so should we remember them?

[Malazan]

23 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

the reason why is twofold for Austin...and you all have the first one covered.  Jerry doesn't need another Texas team treading on his territory....and Austin isn't all that far away from Houston...I am SURE they also don't want a team in Austin.

 

Eh? It's as far away as Buffalo and Pittsburgh. I don't think Houston has too much fandom in Austin. The Cowboys would definitely be the more popular team in the area. 

 

Austin is an unlikely area in my opinion, but not because of anything to do with Houston. 

 

17 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

There is no quote from Pegulas in article.  Someone supposedly stated there are other markets but not say who.

Likely it someone from Legends who told in meeting that unsupported teams have moved in past.

 

it could have been as far as we know Lamar Hunt.

 

Honestly, sounds like the reporter needed some clicks and found "someone" related to the team in some abstract way to make a comment. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by jeremy2020

[Dr.Sack]

Click-bait city. 

[CheshireCT]

1 hour ago, Process said:

This got lost in all the relocation BS, but anyone else find it ridiculous that an open air stadium in freakin Orchard Park would cost $1.1B? How is that possible?

 

Hienz field in downtown Pittsburgh cost $280M. Lucas oil stadium, a dome in downtown Indianapolis cost $770M. US Bank stadium, in downtown Minneapolis, with a dome, and probably one of the nicest stadiums in the league cost $1.05B. 

Thanks for those numbers. must all be huge exaggerations to start negotiations.

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Process said:

This got lost in all the relocation BS, but anyone else find it ridiculous that an open air stadium in freakin Orchard Park would cost $1.1B? How is that possible?

 

Hienz field in downtown Pittsburgh cost $280M. Lucas oil stadium, a dome in downtown Indianapolis cost $770M. US Bank stadium, in downtown Minneapolis, with a dome, and probably one of the nicest stadiums in the league cost $1.05B. 

 

Exactly, in today's dollars the cost to build Heinz Field would be around $430M. No way they should even consider plans any more expensive than that. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

What would move the needle would be an NFL team in Toronto.  make whatever case you want about that...but having one team in Canada...they become alot like the Blue Jays, where that is Canadas MLB team....and THAT would bring more TV revenue to the NFL having those new and additonal eyeballs on TVs.   

 

Anyhthing short of a move to a NON US MARKET, is just he Pegulas posturing and looking for leverage to get their building done.  

Or London, Montreal, Vancouver, Barcelona, etc...  Even just sticking to America there will always be cities with a bigger population an owner can use as threats to relocate in negotiations with the Bills.  The identity of Buffalo is strongly tied to the Bills so fans will put tremendous pressure on their elected politicians to pony up the dough.  The Pegula's recognize that and will take full advantage.  

[NobesBLO13]

The Buffalo News is reporting today (8/2) that the Pegulas are disputing the report on the cost of the stadium, but won’t say how much. And the Sabres arena is not involved in public funding. 

The Pegula spokesperson said that a stadium owned and operated by the public is not unprecedented.

 

That is me paraphrasing the article and no I don’t have a link it’s not on the web site yet. If you want to see the article right now, take your lazy butts to 7-11 and get a paper 😘.

Edited August 2, 2021 by NobesBLO13

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Austin or any other UNITED STATES CITY, makes ZERO sense as a destination for a team like the Bills.  

 

the reason why is twofold for Austin...and you all have the first one covered.  Jerry doesn't need another Texas team treading on his territory....and Austin isn't all that far away from Houston...I am SURE they also don't want a team in Austin.

 

But the more important and bigger reason is that NON NFL MARKETS get just as high of television ratings and NFL markets do.  Moving a team into a market does nothing to bring in more eyes and more TV money (wich is where the leauge makes the big bucks)  To that end, Jerry could care less if teh Bills were in Buffalo or Des Moines Iowa....the TV money is all the same no matter where they have teams now...you don't generate a single new dollar by moving to a new town.  Those days are over.  

 

What would move the needle would be an NFL team in Toronto.  make whatever case you want about that...but having one team in Canada...they become alot like the Blue Jays, where that is Canadas MLB team....and THAT would bring more TV revenue to the NFL having those new and additonal eyeballs on TVs.   

 

Anyhthing short of a move to a NON US MARKET, is just he Pegulas posturing and looking for leverage to get their building done.  

You make a great deal if sense, but if what you say is true, why is JJ and the other NFL owners pushing the Bills for a new stadium if non TV revenue is not important to them?

 

I really don't want have to worry about Western New York losing the Bills.  Been there, done that.

[ALF]

1 hour ago, NobesBLO13 said:

The Buffalo News is reporting today (8/2) that the Pegulas are disputing the report on the cost of the stadium, but won’t say how much. And the Sabres arena is not involved in public funding. 

The Pegula spokesperson said that a stadium owned and operated by the public is not unprecedented.

 

That is me paraphrasing the article and no I don’t have a link it’s not on the web site yet. If you want to see the article right now, take your lazy butts to 7-11 and get a paper 😘.

 

That pretty much sums up the new article . 

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/state-and-regional/as-talks-simmer-for-a-new-bills-stadium-some-of-the-basics-already-are-in/article_bf9f835a-f30a-11eb-b386-2375ef441e55.html

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by ALF

[JMF2006]

If you start your negotiations at 50/50 you will be lucky to get 25%

 

Start at 100% and work your way to 50/50:)  

[LabattBlue]

6 hours ago, foreboding said:

2. If item 1 above is not true, then I don't care what it costs in tax dollars, the state better pay--if needed.

😡

[eball]

43 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

If you start your negotiations at 50/50 you will be lucky to get 25%

 

Start at 100% and work your way to 50/50:)  

 

Pretty much this.  I don’t know who ESPN’s “well placed source” is for the news that broke over the weekend but if the Pegulas threatened the state with leaving Buffalo I’d be shocked.  And as far as Austin goes, that’s simply a comment about a city who wants a team, not a “threat” the Bills will move there.  NYS officials know they need to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

 

I hate leaks like this but some a$$hat wanted to make him or herself more important.  This stuff will take care of itself; I’m on to Pittsburgh.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by eball

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

Yo Maddie Glibb's got this. Right? Right?! Who else is even in the building? Who is the Buffalo Bills PR department?

Derek Boyko is the PR Director 

 

Maddie glab isn’t in that dept. she’s multimedia.

[Mango]

14 hours ago, davefan66 said:

The Bills and the State know what the end game is.  This is a dance meant to rile up fans to put “pressure” on the state.  

Mostly it’s about selling it to residents of NYS.  Tell ‘me the Bills are leaving, get them freaked out and they won’t fight public payout.

Right. But I still think that misses the mark. Just scrolling though comments on FB, Reddit, Insta, I think the Pegula’s missed on the temperature of the community. Just from the eye test, most comments are “Fine, GTFO”. Pegula’s bet that Buffalo would ferociously go to Albany to keep the team here now that they are competitive. But it turns out people feel slighted at the threat 

[LabattBlue]

5 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

Yo Maddie Glibb's got this. Right? Right?! Who else is even in the building? Who is the Buffalo Bills PR department?

Of course there is no one else left in the building. Every time she opens her mouth, her “nails on a chalkboard” voice causes another person to quit. 😂

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right. But I still think that misses the mark. Just scrolling though comments on FB, Reddit, Insta, I think the Pegula’s missed on the temperature of the community. Just from the eye test, most comments are “Fine, GTFO”. Pegula’s bet that Buffalo would ferociously go to Albany to keep the team here now that they are competitive. But it turns out people feel slighted at the threat 

If people truly thought they might move, you’d probably see a different reaction - but nobody truly believes that - so you are correct in that people feel slighted that they would make a threat, even if just a veiled one, as leverage in a negotiation.  
 

We just went through this before the Pegula’s bought the Bills.  You can’t expect to open that wound again a second time and things go well for you.  
 

Edited August 2, 2021 by SCBills

[Niagara Bill]

Over the years I have wasted too much energy on this subject. 

Move if you wish Terry. Move if you want Terry. Move if you must Terry. Move to Austin, move to Wyoming, move to one of your fracking sites, move to London. I don't care.

JUST WIN A SUPERBOWL THIS YEAR and then you can frig off. 

[AmishRifle]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right. But I still think that misses the mark. Just scrolling though comments on FB, Reddit, Insta, I think the Pegula’s missed on the temperature of the community. Just from the eye test, most comments are “Fine, GTFO”. Pegula’s bet that Buffalo would ferociously go to Albany to keep the team here now that they are competitive. But it turns out people feel slighted at the threat 

Absolute conjecture on my part:  Perhaps the firm hired to negotiate planted the seed of “other cities are interested” and not the Pegulas.  One of the advantages of a third party negotiating tactic is to keep yourself in a position to play the savior or just generally above the knife fighting to not soil your reputation.  

[YoloinOhio]

40 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Pretty much this.  I don’t know who ESPN’s “well placed source” is for the news that broke over the weekend but if the Pegulas threatened the state with leaving Buffalo I’d be shocked.  And as far as Austin goes, that’s simply a comment about a city who wants a team, not a “threat” the Bills will move there.  NYS officials know they need to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

 

I hate leaks like this but some a$$hat wanted to make him or herself more important.  This stuff will take care of itself; I’m on to Pittsburgh.

 

 

 

I don’t think there were any sources within the team being used in yesterday’s news. They said “ownership” source but never said which ownership or whether they are connected to the Bills . Seth Wickersham all of a sudden has a Bills source? Doubt it. 
 

the story is already changing today. 

[teef]

nah.  this has been held over our head for far too long.  this is a big zero, and even if it was a legit concern, i'd have trouble caring about it. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

what they say

 

That’s a fake account (not PSE)

[dollars 2 donuts]

F’n Beasley’s fault!

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

great. let me go back to being pissed off now and continue to consider dumping the NFL for good.

 

 

have a good day!

 

What changed in 1973 that made you become a Bills fan?

 

Was it 2,000 yards?  Was it OJ?

 

it was OJ, wasn’t it?

 

I knew it was The Juice.

[Trogdor]

7 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Ralph lived in Michigan and Florida...

I think the founder with a much longer record who didn't accumulate his wealth by destroying areas his business operates gets a longer leash. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

great. let me go back to being pissed off now and continue to consider dumping the NFL for good.

 

 

have a good day!

PSE did go on record today though  - it’s in TBN article upthread 

[Virgil]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

PSE did go on record today though  - it’s in TBN article upthread 

Damn it man, don’t you know you’re my Google.  I can’t be expected to look for things.  
 

Link? 

[JMF2006]

Sure the team gets good....then its the Sword of Democles hanging over our heads  

 

 

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

Damn it man, don’t you know you’re my Google.  I can’t be expected to look for things.  
 

Link? 

 

TBN has a paywall.

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Damn it man, don’t you know you’re my Google.  I can’t be expected to look for things.  
 

Link? 

Ha, I actually didn’t post it originally but this is it 

 

[Punching Bag]

34 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think there were any sources within the team being used in yesterday’s news. They said “ownership” source but never said which ownership or whether they are connected to the Bills . Seth Wickersham all of a sudden has a Bills source? Doubt it. 
 

the story is already changing today. 

 

I think that was a quote from ownership of Kansas City Chiefs.

10 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

Sure the team gets good....then its the Sword of Democles hanging over our heads  

 

 

 

TBN has a paywall.

 

It is not precisely a paywall - it is a pay gate which you can get around by saving article from link and eliminating the block stuff since when you save the article gets saved too.

 

I also saved the original article as PDF so I can see all of the tweaks made by the author a political reporter in Albany Tom Precious

Contents have changed multiple times and now subject.

.

[Punching Bag]

I wonder how many subscribers Buffalo News will get from angry fans?

I hope as many burn papers in front of offices.

It is no coincidence this got "leaked" after open practice.

[Back2Buff]

Does anyone actually know how the lease agreement works for the Bills and Erie County/NYS?

 

I have a decent amount of background in corporate leases, and I can tell you, the "landlord" makes out like a bandit.  The renter pretty much pays everything, while the landlord just collects the money.  The renter is responsible R&M, utilities, CAM, etc. on top of the rent payment every single month.

 

How much does the Bills/concerts/other events pay to use the stadium?  This is a lease, so I'm assuming anytime the stadium is used, a payment would need to be made.

 

If the Bills are paying to use the stadium, then NYS/Erie County should be the ones putting the money to build a new one.

[jaybee]

43 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Over the years I have wasted too much energy on this subject. 

Move if you wish Terry. Move if you want Terry. Move if you must Terry. Move to Austin, move to Wyoming, move to one of your fracking sites, move to London. I don't care.

JUST WIN A SUPERBOWL THIS YEAR and then you can frig off. 

Agree.  Pegula is playing politics knowing that our spineless governor will easily be swayed into being the hero.  Pegula also probably trying to get his claws into Covid money to build his new toy..  Move to China for all I care.  I'm done worrying and am nothing more than a fringe fan at this point after decades of being a crazy-ass passionate fan.  It was a game that united us years ago.  Its a league that divides us now.  I don't need that. 

[Rochesterfan]

 

 

 

I know this frustrates a ton of people, but in some way or another all stadiums are publicly financed.  
 

Those stadiums built by mostly private money tend to have higher PSLs so the individuals that purchase the seats are paying for the stadium.  Those with splits of financing have taxes (fees) added to seats and parking to pay along with things like hotel taxes or other bonds that get paid out of tax money.

 

My assumption based upon what we have read about all of the studies done by the Pegula’s is that the fans do not want PSLs and want to stay in OP for the tailgating.  If we accept those 2 factors as what the studies have shown - then I can fully believe this is going to be a mostly public financed project.

 

Why would the Pegula’s fund a stadium in OP and not have large PSLs like most new stadiums?  The answer would be because they are not funding it themselves.  If they were funding it themselves based upon what would be best for them - the stadium would be downtown near their other projects and then they would charge healthy PSLs for seats and eliminate tailgating because it is more profitable to force people to eat and drink in the stadium.

 

I think in a nod to the fans - the Pegula’s are giving up what is in their best interest and allowing a stadium to be built in OP, but because fans also do not want PSLs - my guess would be it is going to be a 80%-70% public to 20%-30 private funding because without the PSLs to offset the cost - the county and state will have to make up the difference.  
 

For every percentage above 0% that is privately financed the PSLs go up and there are added fees to the tickets and the parking.  You will pay either way - it is just is it spread out across the area or mostly on the fan base.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Niagara Bill]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

 

I know this frustrates a ton of people, but in some way or another all stadiums are publicly financed.  
 

Those stadiums built by mostly private money tend to have higher PSLs so the individuals that purchase the seats are paying for the stadium.  Those with splits of financing have taxes added to seats and parking to pay along with things like hotel taxes or other bonds that get paid out of tax money.

 

My assumption based upon what we have read about all of the studies done by the Pegula’s is that the fans do not want PSLs and want to stay in OP for the tailgating.  If we accept those 2 factors as what the studies have shown - then I can fully believe this is going to be a mostly public financed project.

 

Why would the Pegula’s fund a stadium in OP and not have large PSLs like most new stadiums?  The answer would be because they are not funding it themselves.  If they were funding it themselves based upon what would be best for them - the stadium would be downtown near their other projects and then they would charge healthy PSLs for seats and eliminate tailgating because it is more profitable to force people to eat and drink in the stadium.

 

I think in a nod to the fans - the Pegula’s are giving up what is in their best interest and allowing a stadium to be built in OP, but because fans also do not want PSLs - my guess would be it is going to be a 80%-70% public to 20%-30 private funding because without the PSLs to offset the county and state will have to make up the difference.  
 

For every percentage above 0% that is privately financed the PSLs go up and there are added fees to the tickets and the parking.  You will pay either way - it is just is it spread out across the area or mostly on the fan base.

The other side of the coin is....are there actually any real Bills fans who want a new stadium, who want a new experience, maybe with limited tailgating where Pinto Ron is a mile away from stadium, where fewer seats available to general public and boxes dominate with corporate dollars, and a fancy seats and even higher prices. 

Win a Superbowl, then we can talk.

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve said this many times on here. There’s not a person on here who’ll play a meaningful part in these negotiations. Nor does anyone know much about it except for some leaked information that may be total nonsense leaked as part of the negotiation by one of the interested parties.

 

Here’s what we do know: Rich Stadium is old and was built on the cheap. Because of that it won’t last forever and needs to be replaced. A new stadium is going to be expensive…and somebody’s going to pay for it. There’s no free lunch! 

[PastaJoe]

4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

 

I know this frustrates a ton of people, but in some way or another all stadiums are publicly financed.  
 

Those stadiums built by mostly private money tend to have higher PSLs so the individuals that purchase the seats are paying for the stadium.  Those with splits of financing have taxes added to seats and parking to pay along with things like hotel taxes or other bonds that get paid out of tax money.

 

My assumption based upon what we have read about all of the studies done by the Pegula’s is that the fans do not want PSLs and want to stay in OP for the tailgating.  If we accept those 2 factors as what the studies have shown - then I can fully believe this is going to be a mostly public financed project.

 

Why would the Pegula’s fund a stadium in OP and not have large PSLs like most new stadiums?  The answer would be because they are not funding it themselves.  If they were funding it themselves based upon what would be best for them - the stadium would be downtown near their other projects and then they would charge healthy PSLs for seats and eliminate tailgating because it is more profitable to force people to eat and drink in the stadium.

 

I think in a nod to the fans - the Pegula’s are giving up what is in their best interest and allowing a stadium to be built in OP, but because fans also do not want PSLs - my guess would be it is going to be a 80%-70% public to 20%-30 private funding because without the PSLs to offset the county and state will have to make up the difference.  
 

For every percentage above 0% that is privately financed the PSLs go up and there are added fees to the tickets and the parking.  You will pay either way - it is just is it spread out across the area or mostly on the fan base.

Of course the people who tailgate and buy tickets want it in OP and don’t want PSL’s. But that doesn’t benefit the vast majority of taxpayers who would have to pay for it. This isn’t like funding schools or roads that benefit the vast majority of taxpayers.

 

If taxpayers have to pay, then it should be downtown and with a retractable roof so it can generate revenue year-round with multiple events, and include or contain a new convention center, both of which would encourage further development downtown and generate additional permanent jobs.

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, AmishRifle said:

Absolute conjecture on my part:  Perhaps the firm hired to negotiate planted the seed of “other cities are interested” and not the Pegulas.  One of the advantages of a third party negotiating tactic is to keep yourself in a position to play the savior or just generally above the knife fighting to not soil your reputation.  

Maybe true, but responsibility is Terry's....no one else.

He is also responsible for winning a Superbowl...do that first.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Maybe true, but responsibility is Terry's....no one else.

He is also responsible for winning a Superbowl...do that first.

There are new stadiums in Minnesota, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas just to name a few and NONE of those teams ‘earned’ them by winning a Super Bowl. With all due respect, your criteria is ridiculous.