EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I’m not arguing the stadium helps the economy.  I’m arguing that a downtown stadium be built with the items I listed as part of it being there.  New roads.  A more expensive subway system.  Rail access from downtown to other parts of the region.   Those are things that could benefit the city on a daily basis.   I’m thinking of a downtown stadium as an impetus for changes not an end unto itself. 
 

If a downtown stadium is not part of a serious infrastructure/transportation revitalization then just leave it in OP.  
 

 

 

Well I can almost promise you that that infrastructure, transport revitalization is not going to happen in the city

 

There's been streets that have needed to get paved for a decade and they dont 

 

But for the greater part. The City of Buffalo has been changing for the better for the last 20 years.. and it didn't need a stadium to do it

 

Go downtown, and you're not going to see a lot of Pizza huts and KFCs... It's all mom and pop shops, boutiques, breakfast nooks... 

 

From the theater district, to Allentown and Canalside

 

And we do have a rail system from UB south to Canalside with like 14 stops in the city so at least there's that

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[purple haze]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well I can almost promise you that that infrastructure, transport revitalization is not going to happen in the city

 

There's been streets that have needed to get paved for a decade and they dont 

 

But for the greater part. The City of Buffalo has been changing for the better for the last 20 years.. and it didn't need a stadium to do it

 

Go downtown, and you're not going to see a lot of Pizza huts and KFCs... It's all mom and pop shops, boutiques, breakfast nooks... 

 

From the theater district, to Allentown and Canalside

 

And we do have a underground rail system that will take you to any part of Buffalo.. all the way to canalside

 

I’m well aware of roads that need paving, etc .  That’s why I specifically mentioned infrastructure .   Because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.  It should have been happened.   I see all the construction going on when I come back.  It’s good to see.   But it’s a start.  It didn’t take a stadium to do it, but if they decide to take up real estate downtown for one  I’m saying use it to build on or expand what’s there.   
 

I’ve used the subway.   The subway is good if you’re in proximity to Main Street or doing something along that corridor.  What if you don’t live around Main?   What if you could catch the Subway to the Galleria or The Boulevard Mall?  What if you work downtown but live close to Bailey and Delevan, for example.  What if there was a subway stop near you?   I’m advocating to expand the system in the city and into surrounding suburbs. Subway beats the bus, especially in winter.

 

All that said, whatever is best for the area.  I just think the area has suffered from small time thinking or a lack of follow through for too long.

 

 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because the grid pattern in downtown Buffalo is wonky

 

It has one way streets and it's not meant for 90000 people .. 

 

At least orchard Park has more area, and road access

 

Sabers games draw 20,000 people downtown.. that's minuscule to the 85-90000 that show up to orchard Park to tailgate and watch the game

 

90,000 people in downtown Buffalo would be a mob scene, you would never get out.. especially with the one ways and such 

 

Downtown Buffalo is just not meant to hold that many people at once .. it's a big small City.. but downtown gets cramped with 20 or 30,000 people... Let alone 90k

That’s fair, and they are all true points. I just don’t know if I’ll ever be convinced that traffic in the city would be so bad it’d make building the stadium a poor choice. The old Rockpile held 46,000 back in the day. I don’t think an enclosed venue is going to hold more than 70,000. We’re not building a Jerry World stadium of 90,000. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I’m well aware of roads that need paving, etc .  That’s why I specifically mentioned infrastructure .   Because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.  It should have been happened.   I see all the construction going on when I come back.  It’s good to see.   But it’s a start.  It didn’t take a stadium to do it, but if they decide to take up real estate downtown for one  I’m saying use it to build on or expand what’s there.   
 

I’ve used the subway.   The subway is good if you’re in proximity to Main Street or doing something along that corridor.  What if you don’t live around Main?   What if you could catch the Subway to the Galleria or The Boulevard Mall?  What if you work downtown but live close to Bailey and Delevan, for example.  What if there was a subway stop near you?   I’m advocating to expand the system in the city and into surrounding suburbs. Subway beats the bus, especially in winter.

 

All that said, whatever is best for the area.  I just think the area has suffered from small time thinking or a lack of follow through for too long.

 

 

I just don't think the city has the money for it 

 

As beautiful as it sounds the subway just isn't coming into the suburbs

 

Of course the city has suffered from a lot of things over the years.. but I don't think a downtown stadium is the fix.. or even part of the solution

 

Downtown Buffalo is far from the problem. The East and West sides , which are lacking infrastructure, has a high gang problem, opioid problem and educational problems, need help... Their schools need better funding and better teachers, and their roads needs to be fixed and their neighborhoods need help

 

At the end of the day Buffalo is the most violent city in New York.. you would never think it if you just went downtown... There's a whole lot of parts of the city that need help badly

[nevadabillsfan22]

I grew up on the west side in the 60s used to be a nice place we had the high school gangs and mafia ran the show if things got out of hand I wouldn't live there now as it has become almost the slum. To put the stadium downtown would not be ideal due to thefts from cars and such lots of crime leave it were it is build new and be done with it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

If they do decide downtown I'm sure traffic patterns will be considered and studied

[purple haze]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I just don't think the city has the money for it 

 

As beautiful as it sounds the subway just isn't coming into the suburbs

 

Of course the city has suffered from a lot of things over the years.. but I don't think a downtown stadium is the fix.. or even part of the solution

 

Downtown Buffalo is far from the problem. The East and West sides , which are lacking infrastructure, has a high gang problem, opioid problem and educational problems, need help... Their schools need better funding and better teachers, and their roads needs to be fixed and their neighborhoods need help

 

At the end of the day Buffalo is the most violent city in New York.. you would never think it if you just went downtown... There's a whole lot of parts of the city that need help badly

I know.   My family is from downtown and the east side from the 1930s on up to now.  Where resources have been concentrated over the years is a whole other convo apart from the new stadium.     

[PromoTheRobot]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I just don't think the city has the money for it 

 

As beautiful as it sounds the subway just isn't coming into the suburbs

 

Of course the city has suffered from a lot of things over the years.. but I don't think a downtown stadium is the fix.. or even part of the solution

 

Downtown Buffalo is far from the problem. The East and West sides , which are lacking infrastructure, has a high gang problem, opioid problem and educational problems, need help... Their schools need better funding and better teachers, and their roads needs to be fixed and their neighborhoods need help

 

At the end of the day Buffalo is the most violent city in New York.. you would never think it if you just went downtown... There's a whole lot of parts of the city that need help badly

The West side isn't the basket case you say. It's rapidly being gentrified. Any bad neighborhoods are next on the list. East side, especially Fillmore and Bailey aves, is still a mess. But all cities have their poorer sections.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The West side isn't the basket case you say. It's rapidly being gentrified. Any bad neighborhoods are next on the list. East side, especially Fillmore and Bailey aves, is still a mess. But all cities have their poorer sections.

West side definitely has some nicer areas and parts of it definitely have been gentrified 

 

But There are still like 40 or 50 active gangs in Buffalo and they're all basically on the east or west side 

 

The east side is a mess tho  

 

Statistically Buffalo is the most violent city in New York that's fact. And most of the violence occurs on the east or west side 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[red hots]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are dozens of studies that show downtown stadiums do nothing to help a city's economy

 

A stadium downtown will not revitalize the economy 

 

And you can get from downtown Buffalo to orchard Park or any suburb in 20 minutes.. easily

 

It's fine in orchard Park. And if you think traffic jams are bad in op, you couldn't imagine 100,000 people downtown... That's why it's not going there 

 

Orchard Park is the easiest venue to build it around

 

Stadiums on their own don't make or break an economy, or revitalize an area all by themselves, but to say they do nothing is absolute nonsense. Like all the things I mentioned about they are small parts of the bigger picture.

 

I'll use the Packers again, simply because all their information is publicly available and easy to find. They contribute $160m dollars a year to their local economy. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, red hots said:

The direct article about First Energy Stadium in Cleveland I was referring to has this paragraph which states "Browns Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Dave Jenkins says the Stadium is actually used quite frequently for non-Browns events, up to 150 times a year if you count high-school proms, business meetings, charity fundraisers and similar events.".

 

Have a look at this article on Lambeau Field. It might surprise you how often it actually is utilised, it surprised me. Not just gift shops and museums. Probably the best stadium tour I've ever done as well. 

 

https://biztimes.com/sports-venues-home-run-corporate-events-2/

The article even says that 75% of the events are corporate events.  Theee are not large scale conventions or arena concerts.  I bet almost none of them involve the stadium itself, but various club rooms snd meeting rooms.  Same stuff as any urban convention center already hosts. By far the most people it hosts are the 500 people a day who tour through it. That’s things are really nickel and dime events.

 

Same thing for Browns stadium being “used” 150 times a year.  No, the actual stadium isn’t. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, purple haze said:

I prefer downtown because downtown - if done right - is not just an open air stadium.  It’s an open air stadium that comes with massive public transportation, rail and infrastructure construction.  Those are investments that will benefit the city/region everyday going forward.   It’s time for Buffalo to think big and effin’ execute the plan.

Massive rail infrastructure construction isn’t coming to Buffalo—and certainly not for a football stadium.  And by 2025 is absurd.

[Buffalo716]

33 minutes ago, red hots said:

Stadiums on their own don't make or break an economy, or revitalize an area all by themselves, but to say they do nothing is absolute nonsense. Like all the things I mentioned about they are small parts of the bigger picture.

 

I'll use the Packers again, simply because all their information is publicly available and easy to find. They contribute $160m dollars a year to their local economy. 

 

Let's put it this way. with the socialist mayor coming in

 

The chances went from slim to almost none 

 

Downtown Buffalo is doing perfectly fine.. it's a lot of the other parts of the city that are struggling

 

And Putting a stadium downtown isn't going to help the east side 

 

And the Packers are publicly owned team. The bills aren't 

 

So Green Bay is set up specifically for the Packers to help the economy

 

The Bills going downtown would just be a hip move.. economically I don't think it makes much sense, because it's probably more expensive than what it would be to build in orchard Park 

 

If Terry chooses to build it downtown go for it.. I just doubt it

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Buffalo716

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Let's put it this way. with the socialist mayor coming in

 

The chances went from slim to almost none 

 

Downtown Buffalo is doing perfectly fine.. it's a lot of the other parts of the city that are struggling

 

And Putting a stadium downtown isn't going to help the east side 

 

And the Packers are publicly owned team. The bills aren't 

 

So Green Bay is set up specifically for the Packers to help the economy

 

The Bills going downtown would just be a hip move.. economically I don't think it makes much sense, because it's probably more expensive than what it would be to build in orchard Park 

 

If Terry chooses to build it downtown go for it.. I just doubt it

 

 

 

 

 

Don't swear in India Walton just yet.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Don't swear in India Walton just yet.

I really hope Brown can win a write in.. I think he's brought a lot of stability to the city 

[PromoTheRobot]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I really hope Brown can win a write in.. I think he's brought a lot of stability to the city 

 

It's one thing winning a primary where 5% of people voted. It's another to win the general. I know the expectation is Dems are automatic in Buffalo but nothing is certain this year. I don't believe Walton has that much support beyond her fringy base.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's one thing winning a primary where 5% of people voted. It's another to win the general. I know the expectation is Dems are automatic in Buffalo but nothing is certain this year. I don't believe Walton has that much support beyond her fringy base.

She had the support of the Democratic Party and it’s money.  Plus the county.  Brown was too dumb and lazy to run a campaign and now he’s getting “serious”…with a write in campaign lol

[SectionC3]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

She had the support of the Democratic Party and it’s money.  Plus the county.  Brown was too dumb and lazy to run a campaign and now he’s getting “serious”…with a write in campaign lol

This is so wrong.  No, she didn’t.  End of story.  

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

This is so wrong.  No, she didn’t.  End of story.  

 

The local Democratic party has its tit caught in the wringer with this mayoral race. Of course they have to show support for their primary winner. It doesn't mean they think she can win. Frankly I can't believe the GOP didn't at least nominate a warm body to run. This sets up the strangest election ever: a single unopposed candidate on the ballot with a four-term mayor running as a write in, plus who knows who else. Grab your popcorn.

Edited July 5, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

The local Democratic party has it's tit caught in the wringer with this mayoral race. Of course they have to show support for their primary winner. It doesn't mean they think she can win. Frankly I can't believe the GOP didn't at least nominate a warm body to run. This sets up the strangest election ever: a single unopposed candidate on the ballot with a four-term mayor running as a write in, plus who knows who else. Grab your popcorn.

 

It's weird, for sure.  And it only relates to the stadium insofar as, if plans change and there's a desire to put it downtown, what happens in November will dictate a lot of that.  But, to be clear, Walton did not have party support in the primary.  And party support will be tepid in the general.  So Brown may win.