EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

It's weird, for sure.  And it only relates to the stadium insofar as, if plans change and there's a desire to put it downtown, what happens in November will dictate a lot of that.  But, to be clear, Walton did not have party support in the primary.  And party support will be tepid in the general.  So Brown may win.  

 

I thought I read that rubber stamps are allowed for write-in ballots, but not stickers. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Blainorama5]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The Bills going downtown would just be a hip move.. economically I don't think it makes much sense, because it's probably more expensive than what it would be to build in orchard Park

Ding. ding. ding!!

It's a fairly simple formula.  Build a new stadium - but build it affordably so you don't price out the people you're hoping to attract.  To do so otherwise would be business suicide.

Building right next to the old stadium saves a BOAT-load of money in resources and infrastructure.  Construction is going to suck a bit for the neighborhood - but the payoff will be worth it.

[BillStime]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because the grid pattern in downtown Buffalo is wonky

 

It has one way streets and it's not meant for 90000 people .. 

 

At least orchard Park has more area, and road access

 

Sabers games draw 20,000 people downtown.. that's minuscule to the 85-90000 that show up to orchard Park to tailgate and watch the game

 

90,000 people in downtown Buffalo would be a mob scene, you would never get out.. especially with the one ways and such 

 

Downtown Buffalo is just not meant to hold that many people at once .. it's a big small City.. but downtown gets cramped with 20 or 30,000 people... Let alone 90k

 

Buffalo's population at it peak was 580,132... the City was most definitely designed to handle more than what we see today.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

This is so wrong.  No, she didn’t.  End of story.  

She does now.  End of story for Brown

 

“We are supporting India Walton 100%. We had a great conversation with her earlier today and we’re going to assist her with anything she needs going forward. So the Erie County Democrats will not be supporting a Mayor Brown write-in campaign. I haven’t had a lot of folks reach out to me with a lot of interest in that. India fought a tough race, the voters have spoken with her and we’re with her,” Zellner told News 4”

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[BillStime]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The Patriots play in a suburb and they've won more super bowls than anybody in the last 20 years.. 

 

There's no economic boost for a downtown stadium , and we have 40 years of tradition and history in OP

 

Where did Bob Kraft want to build his new stadium?

 

Hint: it wasn't Foxborough

 

[May Day 10]

As mentioned a lot, cost downtown is a huge obstacle, with marginal payoff.  

 

Also, remember, there is going to be an ask for the KeyBank Center.  Weddings, conferences, business lunches, concerts are all adequately housed there.  

 

If they ask the city/county/state to kick in $500 million in road and other infrastructure upgrades (and get it), good luck getting public funding for the facilities themselves.  

 

Traffic is a giant elephant in the room there.  The narrow street grid approach to the not-so-convenient 190 on ramps create gridlock.  

 

Subway isn't a reasonable answer.  That is also a billion dollar project, all for a city with limited commerce downtown and whose wealth is concentrated in the 2nd ring suburbs.  I'm sure their surveys sorted it all out, but I would bet a small amount of people who attend bills games live in buffalo proper.  

 

What buffalo needs is for economic development in the way of multiple fortune 500 companies to headquarter downtown.  There isn't a magic pill for that besides steady leadership, continued smart progress, and trying to be as favorable to business as possible.  Our access to freshwater and climate seems like it will be an increasingly appealing feature.

Edited July 5, 2021 by May Day 10

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

Ding. ding. ding!!

It's a fairly simple formula.  Build a new stadium - but build it affordably so you don't price out the people you're hoping to attract.  To do so otherwise would be business suicide.

Building right next to the old stadium saves a BOAT-load of money in resources and infrastructure.  Construction is going to suck a bit for the neighborhood - but the payoff will be worth it.

I agree.  OP is certainly the simplest way to go.  Plus, it's the least disruptive for the Bills, which I would think the Pegulas find attractive.  I suspect that there will be some infrastructure upgrades that will improve pre- and post-game traffic to some extent.  

 

I've always been opposed to downtown.  The key to growth in any city is economic development, and a stadium and parking lots is not good for economic development.  That land eventually will be more valuable if used for commercial or residential development.  Doubly true if you're taking waterfront property.  

 

Lots of cities are planning to remove the interstate highways from downtown.   I think there's at least talk, if not plans, to get rid of the Kensington Expressway.  Why would cities do this?  Because it's become apparent infrastructure is not the best used for urban land surface land.  Ditto a stadium.   Some of the land at a downtown stadium site might look cheap and unused today, but times change.  Ten years from now, that land could be much more valuable for development, and the acres occupied by a stadium and parking will look like a foolish investment.  

 

Buffalo's made a good start at a comeback.  Growth and economic recovery are underway.   Major league sports is an important part of making a city attractive, but where those teams play is less important.   OP is fine. 

[BillStime]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  OP is certainly the simplest way to go.  Plus, it's the least disruptive for the Bills, which I would think the Pegulas find attractive.  I suspect that there will be some infrastructure upgrades that will improve pre- and post-game traffic to some extent.  

 

I've always been opposed to downtown.  The key to growth in any city is economic development, and a stadium and parking lots is not good for economic development.  That land eventually will be more valuable if used for commercial or residential development.  Doubly true if you're taking waterfront property.  

 

Lots of cities are planning to remove the interstate highways from downtown.   I think there's at least talk, if not plans, to get rid of the Kensington Expressway.  Why would cities do this?  Because it's become apparent infrastructure is not the best used for urban land surface land.  Ditto a stadium.   Some of the land at a downtown stadium site might look cheap and unused today, but times change.  Ten years from now, that land could be much more valuable for development, and the acres occupied by a stadium and parking will look like a foolish investment.  

 

Buffalo's made a good start at a comeback.  Growth and economic recovery are underway.   Major league sports is an important part of making a city attractive, but where those teams play is less important.   OP is fine. 

 

1) We have so many bombed out corners being used for parking lots all over downtown.  I’m not worried about the availability of land - especially where they might be targeting a downtown stadium.

 

2) Buffalo will NEVER rid itself of the 190 as long as the Peace Bridge retains commercial traffic.

 

3) You do NOT spend a billion dollars on a new stadium in OP with zero public transportation options.

 

4) You build the stadium closer the fastest growing region in our market - Southern Ontario. 
 

5) Make downtown Buffalo the transportation hub for WNY with direct connects from all directions; including Southern Ontario, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and the airport.

 

6) I laugh when people talk about traffic in WNY - Buffalo doesn’t know what traffic is compared to a real city.

 

7) Funding? Tap the piggy bank in our backyard - the NY Power Authority. That thing is a cash cow that sends all its money to Albany and NYC. 

 

8 ) Laughable if anyone thinks any mayor of a town like Buffalo will have ANY say in a billion dollar project like this. No matter who it is they will be lucky to even have a seat at the table.

 

9) Go back and read number 4. If you care about the LONG TERM ECONOMIC viability of this franchise - it is a no-brainer.  
 

If you care more about tailgating - then don’t bich about the product on the field. 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Buffalo's population at it peak was 580,132... the City was most definitely designed to handle more than what we see today.

The City doesn't all live downtown 

 

Most of the population lives in north or south Buffalo west or east side.. downtown's actual population is under 5k has never been huge.. downtown has the same population as Lovejoy a small neighborhood on the east side

 

 North Buffalo and South Buffalo and the east side have 5 to 10 times more the population and always have 

 

Downtown has always been hectic when there's 20-30 k plus downtown.. let alone 75k

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Buffalo716

[BillStime]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The City doesn't all live downtown 

 

Most of the population lives in north or south Buffalo west or east side.. downtown's actual population is under 5k has never been huge

 

 North Buffalo and South Buffalo and the east side have 5 to 10 times more the population and always have 

 

Downtown has always been hectic when there's 20-30 k plus downtown.. let alone 75k

 

 

Again - Buffalo doesn’t know what traffic is… I wish we had that problem but we simply do not.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Again - Buffalo doesn’t know what traffic is… I wish we had that problem but we simply do not.

Compared to Los Angeles we don't know what traffic is 

 

But Buffalo was built with a street grid pattern unlike most of America. It was actually built for bicycle riding and walking to connect and traverse Olmsted parks

 

Not motor vehicles.. and it has not been updated to the 21st century 

 

It's a beautiful city that was actually meant to get around by walking or riding bikes, the grid was not meant for cars

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Buffalo716

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

She does now.  End of story for Brown

 

“We are supporting India Walton 100%. We had a great conversation with her earlier today and we’re going to assist her with anything she needs going forward. So the Erie County Democrats will not be supporting a Mayor Brown write-in campaign. I haven’t had a lot of folks reach out to me with a lot of interest in that. India fought a tough race, the voters have spoken with her and we’re with her,” Zellner told News 4”

 

 

Sure.  But you said "had" support of the party.  She didn't then, and it likely will be tepid now.  And again, this is only relevant because of its potential impact on downtown stadium development. 

[BillStime]

 

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Compared to Los Angeles we don't know what traffic is 

 

But Buffalo was built with a street grid pattern unlike most of America. It was actually built for bicycle riding and walking to connect and traverse Olmsted parks

 

Not motor vehicles.. and it has not been updated to the 21st century 

 

It's a beautiful city that was actually meant to get around by walking or riding bikes, the grid is not meant for cars

 

 

Sounds like a smart city designed perfectly to disperse traffic…

 

All roads lead to Buffalo:

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

1) We have so many bombed out corners being used for parking lots all over downtown.  I’m not worried about the availability of land - especially where they might be targeting a downtown stadium.

 

 

 

4) You build the stadium closer the fastest growing region in our market - Southern Ontario. 
 

 

 

 

Not all corners are equal.  A stadium, parking, and highway access would permanently occupy some of the most valuable property in Western New York.   Buffalo doesn't need a stadium downtown, and there's plenty of land elsewhere. 

 

I agree about southern Ontario.  I always thought that was the place to build.  Bring Niagara Falls, NY to life with hotels, restaurants, the stadium.  It would be an easier drive for fans from the east, easier for fans from Ontario.  

 

If New York State were willing to pay for the whole thing, then I would have thought the state would have insisted on Niagara Falls.   But the state won't write the big check, and the Pegulas or other private money will have to step up, and once that happens, the Pegulas become the important player at the table.  It's their team, and if it's their money, too, well, it's their call.  OP makes the most sense from their point of view. 

[Shaw66]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Downtown has always been hectic when there's 20-30 k plus downtown.. let alone 75k

 

38,000 isn't 70,000, but we never had trouble getting out after games at the Rockpile.   All the way downtown would be a little more congested, but with thoughtful game-day traffic planning, and probably a new highway ramp or two, downtown could handle the traffic.   Plus, downtown would offer bars and restaurants that would attract some fans after the game, keeping them off the road for a few hours.   Especially after a 1 o'clock game - walk out of the part into a sports bar and watch the late game.

 

But just because it would work downtown doesn't mean it's a good idea to put it there.  People love the water; waterfront property is really valuable.  If it were cleaned up today, people would be climbing over each other to build on Buffalo's lakefront.  Putting thousands of tons of steel and concrete into a stadium that gets used 10 or 15 days a year wastes a valuable asset.  

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

38,000 isn't 70,000, but we never had trouble getting out after games at the Rockpile.   All the way downtown would be a little more congested, but with thoughtful game-day traffic planning, and probably a new highway ramp or two, downtown could handle the traffic.   Plus, downtown would offer bars and restaurants that would attract some fans after the game, keeping them off the road for a few hours.   Especially after a 1 o'clock game - walk out of the part into a sports bar and watch the late game.

 

But just because it would work downtown doesn't mean it's a good idea to put it there.  People love the water; waterfront property is really valuable.  If it were cleaned up today, people would be climbing over each other to build on Buffalo's lakefront.  Putting thousands of tons of steel and concrete into a stadium that gets used 10 or 15 days a year wastes a valuable asset.  

All of those things you said have been part of my points

 

And sure if they changed more one-way streets and added more highway ramps and stuff it could work.. but they're not doing that

 

Of course it could work but it's not the best idea

[BillStime]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

All of those things you said have been part of my points

 

And sure if they changed more one-way streets and added more highway ramps and stuff it could work.. but they're not doing that

 

Of course it could work but it's not the best idea

 

Nor is spending $1 BILLION dollars in Orchard Park.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Nor is spending $1 BILLION dollars in Orchard Park.

It's mostly Terry pegula's money and he could spend where he wants

 

If the county and State was paying 70% of the bill I'm sure they put it downtown

Edited July 5, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

Sure.  But you said "had" support of the party.  She didn't then, and it likely will be tepid now.  And again, this is only relevant because of its potential impact on downtown stadium development. 

 

 

OK, without support of the party, this unknown beat a 4 time incumbent.  The above sounds like whole-hearted (not tepid) support.  Brown has no official party backing, no party money and he's not on the ballot.

 

Won't matter.  No Mayor of Buffalo will be making decisions about where a stadium goes.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

OK, without support of the party, this unknown beat a 4 time incumbent.  The above sounds like whole-hearted (not tepid) support.  Brown has no official party backing, no party money and he's not on the ballot.

 

Won't matter.  No Mayor of Buffalo will be making decisions about where a stadium goes.

Of course not 

 

But they might make a decision that it doesn't go downtown because of a socialist mayor and an unknown element