How will the Bills defend against the Patriots 2 new TEs?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m no cam guy, but this take is old.  They would have beaten us at home with the worst front 7 ever.....but Zimmer made a helluva play and Cam made a blunder at the same time to ***** defeat from the hands of victory.  There’s no doubt that they can beat us.  I’d say we’re the clear favorites and the beater team, but they can win a game 💯 maybe even two is we don’t bring out A game.  The better team doesn’t always win in the nfl

 

Bigger picture. Cam was terrible last year. Not just against the Bills. Any given Sunday sure. But they got a QB problem for sure. 

[KGun12TD]

Easy! Hunter Henry won't make it thru the season. Jonnu will be average with Cam and they have to worry about US instead.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bills have the worst TE history in the NFL on both sides of the ball. They have never had a single pro bowl appearance and they are historically one of the worst teams when defending the TE. This transcends two owners, dozens of coaches, and hundreds of players.  It really is almost statically impossible for the Bills to be any worse with TE production and defense.

 

Yes the Bills need a better  TE but come on with the wild exaggerations.  

 

Ernie Warlick made multiple Pro Bowls.

 

Historically one of the worst teams defending the tight end.  Can you provide that stat?

[P Riv]

13 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Bigger picture. Cam was terrible last year. Not just against the Bills. 

 

Seems that way, but fact is he completed 65.8% of his passes for a 7.2 yard average, with no offseason in a new and complicated offense and with virtually no one to throw to.  I say don't be surprised if he turns it around.  As if NE's brain trust is all of sudden completely amateur and stupid... With their Defense, Special teams and running game, all he really needs to do is hit his own career average numbers.  If average Cam shows up, they are a very tough team.  

Every season is different, so I don't expect them to be worse than 7-9 and I don't expect us to be 14-2 or better.  We're a 10+ win team, and they may also be a 10 win team now.  Tough competitive division.

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by P Riv

[teef]

people are already scared of the pats?  that's cute.  sack up.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

Seems that way, but fact is he completed 65.8% of his passes for a 7.2 yard average, with no offseason in a new and complicated offense and with virtually no one to throw to.  I say don't be surprised if he turns it around.  As if NE's brain trust is all of sudden completely amateur and stupid... With their Defense, Special teams abnd running game, all e really needs to do is hit his own career average numbers.  If average Cam shows up, they are a very tough team.  

 

 

 

 

Even those metrics, which are Cam's best, are still bottom half of the league. I guess we can say he appears to have nowhere to go but up so glass half full for the Patriots in terms of Cam playing better next year. 

[Fan in Chicago]

7 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

How is Cam going to get the Ball to NE two TEs? 

You and several others here are assuming Cam will be the starter next season. The money he got was backup level. I will be very surprised if the Pats** go into next season with the same QBs. They can still pull off a trade it draft a QB who resembles the early Brady in his skill set. From afar, it looks like that team is being built to stop the opposition and provide a team in which a young QB can succeed.

The OP's question is very much valid. At many points, the Bills have struggled to cover 1 good TE.  They better have a plan to cover 2

1 minute ago, teef said:

people are already scared of the pats?  that's cute.  sack up.

Scared? Being concerned about a division rival's moves doesn't equate to fear

[Paup 1995MVP]

7 hours ago, foreboding said:

For sure it is a losable game for us now. It would be ignorant to think otherwise. Bill Belichick didn't just up and forget how to coach. That they beat some good teams last year, and with that putrid team, it is admirable.

As far as this spending spree the Pats are on? I don't recall ever seeing a team spend so much money all at once, it's insane and I am afraid it will probably work. The Pats WILL get the most of their talent, and all of sudden they got a  shittle-ton of it. 

Cam is the weak link and I understand the skepticism, it is warranted.  He seems to need momentum to be good, and is a bit of a head case, imo. But, I do think Daniels can devise an effective offense with Cam's legs with mostly easy throws to big guys...and 80 million in (new) proven talent.

That said, we got us a sonafabitchin' offense and I still like our chances, but for damn sure it got harder.

Way too much respect being given to the Pats.  We wiped them up and down the field in Foxboro late last season.  Cam is garbage.  And their signings don't move the meter.  

 

They may not suck.  But they have no QB.  I am sure the Bills will make the necessary changes on defense to be much better even if the personnel doesn't change much.  Mcdermott and staff are good enuf to know what worked and what needs to be tinkered with.  We are in the top echelon of the league.  Fans need to change their mindset.  I expect to win every game we play in the division.  And most over all.  Go Bills.  

 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

Scared? Being concerned about a division rival's moves doesn't equate to fear

sure, but some fans are like beaten dogs.  every time the pats sign someone, it's doom for the bills.  right now the bills are the better team, and it's the pats that have to figure out how to beat us.    as you mentioned though, it's all about who they open the season with qb with.

 

 

while we're on it, will people please stop acting like the bills should have lost the first game to the pats.  how many times did the bills almost win but blew it when it comes to new england?  we weren't allowed to make excuses for bills loses, so why make excuses for the barely wins?   buffalo evolved and became the much better season when on.  the bills are the better team.

[Sweats]

You jam the TE at the line of scrimmage and throw the timing off....dont know why the Bill's brass didn't utilize this strategy against the Chiefs.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I think the reason nobody wants to hear that Newton outplayed Allen in the first game is that it's questionable and probably nonsense. Generally, people do not want to hear nonsense.

 

 

Allen's 1st game:   33/46 for 312 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, QB ranking of 104.6, 57 yards rushing and a rushing TD

 

Newton's 1st game:  15/19 for a whopping 155 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, a QB ranking of 100.7, 75 yards rushing and 2 rushing TDs

 

So Allen had 3 TDs and Newton 2. And Allen doubled Newton's passing yards.

 

Sorry, that's a pretty sad opinion, extremely questionable at absolute best.

 

 

I do think it's possible, not clear and obvious but very possible that NE will be a far tougher match this year. And they might well bring in a better QB as well.

 

I was referring to the first game they played against each other.

Bills vs Patriots, Bills win 24-21

Allen 11 of 18, 154 yards, 0 TD 1 Int 23 yards rush

Newton 15 of 25 174 yard, 0 TD 0 Int 54 yards rush
 

I will be honest I’m shocked the Pats brought him back. I thought they would trade for Matt Ryan or Jimmy G. But If you or others think Newton was their biggest issue last year it’s just not correct. Without him they may have gone 3-13. As almost everyone agrees, they had worst collection of skill players in the league. 

 

 

[H2o]

7 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I don’t know so I’m asking. Will this give Edmunds greater value? I’m not impressed with his pass rush but if I’m thinking correctly his pass coverage is pretty decent, especially when he’s paired up with Milano. Not liking the idea of the Patriots employing 2 pass catching TEs again though.

There are a few options. I still expect us to take a rangy type of LB in this draft. A guy like Jamin Davis of Kentucky, Jabril Cox of LSU, Chazz Surratt of UNC, or Tony Fields II of WVU. We may even take a look at a S who has positional flexibility like Hamsah Nasirildeen of FSU, Divine Deablo of Virginia Tech, or Tariq Thompson of SDSU. Klein isn't getting any younger. They also can dump him next year while only taking a $400K cap hit and saving $4.8M. Hamsah is 6'4" and about 215lbs, but flies all over the field, has the speed to cover anyone, and seems to love contact. Deablo is 6'3" 230lbs and is in the same mold of his VT predecessor Kam Chancellor, though I'm not saying he absolutely is the next Kam Chancellor. Thompson (the smallest of the group at 6'1" 200lbs) is excellent in coverage, has the size to slide down in the box, and has shown really good instincts. The Pats will be running those 2 TE looks all game, every game. Trust me, this FO and coaching staff are already looking at ways to combat that.  

[JerseyBills]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bills have the worst TE history in the NFL on both sides of the ball. They have never had a single pro bowl appearance and they are historically one of the worst teams when defending the TE. This transcends two owners, dozens of coaches, and hundreds of players.  It really is almost statically impossible for the Bills to be any worse with TE production and defense.

I saw a tweet, in 2019 Bills were 2nd best defense against TEs , giving up 500 something yards , while last year they were one of the worse. 

The logic is that Edmunds n Milano being banged up really hurt us in that department.  

[Dablitzkrieg]

I'm pretty sure you need a QB to get the ball to them.   Buffalo should sweep these bums

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

MAJ, just getting on here, but you beat me to it.  My guess is they extend McKenzie, especially since they let Roberts walk. It’s suggested he might be able to expand somewhat his role on offense.  Regarding Diggs, Beasely, Davis, maybe Samuel, and you never know how Hodgins works out this year.  We have versatility.

 

Cam has a career 60% completion record for 10 years.  BB did what he could do for Cam giving him two taller WR’s, two TE’s, and they already had a solid running game.  They may win some games, but they won’t get to a championship.  As far as the Pats first game, Allen far outplayed Newton.  The game was close because there were 45 mph. Winds so we ran for 194 yards.  That was a smart decision by the Bills.  On the other hand knowing the conditions it was a mistake by BB dropping 8 back to shut down Allen and company.  They made it too easy for us to run the ball.

 

This topic came up on WGR this morning and Sal brought up a good point.  He agreed Kelce abused us in 2020, but he also cited several examples of TE’s this past year we kept in check.  We also did not have healthy Milano and Edmunds with in front.  We don’t know what will happen in the draft.

 

There is a segment on this board that still sees ghosts of the last with NE.  That’s ok as they beat us for 20 years.  What I see is Brady was more of the impediment and he’s gone.  What happened in the second NE game is more telling to me.  By no means do I think we are sweeping the East as a guarantee, but I’ll take our chances in all six games.  Allen didn’t forget how to throw a ball and neither did Diggs, Beasely and Davis catching one.

I like Bills chances in all six games too. I just don’t understand how people think NE is a patsy now with all those opt outs coming back and the guys they have added. Your assessment of them winning more game but not a championship is spot on. I think they are in the WC hunt until late Dec and it may come down to Newton vs Tua for the last WC spot.

[NewEra]

43 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Bigger picture. Cam was terrible last year. Not just against the Bills. Any given Sunday sure. But they got a QB problem for sure. 

Absolutely.  He was terrible.....and they still won 7 games....with maybe the worst roster in the league.  Cam still stinks, but they have talent now.  We’re the better team, but any given sunday.

[K-9]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I think the reason nobody wants to hear that Newton outplayed Allen in the first game is that it's questionable and probably nonsense. Generally, people do not want to hear nonsense.

 

 

Allen's 1st game:   33/46 for 312 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, QB ranking of 104.6, 57 yards rushing and a rushing TD

 

Newton's 1st game:  15/19 for a whopping 155 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, a QB ranking of 100.7, 75 yards rushing and 2 rushing TDs

 

So Allen had 3 TDs and Newton 2. And Allen doubled Newton's passing yards.

 

Sorry, that's a pretty sad opinion, extremely questionable at absolute best.

 

 

I do think it's possible, not clear and obvious but very possible that NE will be a far tougher match this year. And they might well bring in a better QB as well.

 

If you’re referring to the first game between the Bills and Pats*** last season (played on 11/1/20) you need to re-check the stats from that game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

35 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes the Bills need a better  TE but come on with the wild exaggerations.  

 

Ernie Warlick made multiple Pro Bowls.

 

Historically one of the worst teams defending the tight end.  Can you provide that stat?

Could call out on Warlock but he never played in the NFL. AFL only. Go check the stats, not a single ProBowl TE in SuperBowl era.
As for defending the tight end, that is pure speculation on my part with no stats but I’ve watched games since 1980 and the Billshave a habit of making even marginal TEs look good.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2018 and 2019 we were one of the best vs TEs. What changed? Basically the same guys. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

2018 and 2019 we were one of the best vs TEs. What changed? Basically the same guys. 

I keep saying the same thing..... Need that DT1. Allows Edmund's and Milano to focus on the TE's and the middle and not have to come up and help the line. Plug the middle... But Just my opinion..

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I keep saying the same thing..... Need that DT1. Allows Edmund's and Milano to focus on the TE's and the middle and not have to come up and help the line. Plug the middle... But Just my opinion..

I think pretty simply there was some confusion out on the field last year. Could have been the lack of meetings due to COVID-19 but communication wasn't great last year. It improved as the year went on. 

 

I the Zo Alexander was a pretty big loss. Was like a coach. I know pass rush wise he called all the stunts and games up front. 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Could call out on Warlock but he never played in the NFL. AFL only. Go check the stats, not a single ProBowl TE in SuperBowl era.
As for defending the tight end, that is pure speculation on my part with no stats but I’ve watched games since 1980 and the Billshave a habit of making even marginal TEs look good.

 

I'm sure over the course of 40 years that tight ends have hurt us and have not.  I'm sure over the course of 40 years all positions have hurt us.

[LyndonvilleBill]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think pretty simply there was some confusion out on the field last year. Could have been the lack of meetings due to COVID-19 but communication wasn't great last year. It improved as the year went on. 

 

I the Zo Alexander was a pretty big loss. Was like a coach. I know pass rush wise he called all the stunts and games up front. 

True. I did forget about Zo. Could a LB like say a Werner or Mosses help with that and allow more of a 4-3-4 instead of 4-2-5? 

[Don Otreply]

They will do it by making Cam be a passing quarterback...

[Ghost_002!]

I do not think some bills fans will survive if/when the pats make it official that they have another QB.

 

 

It's like it's been clearly reported their approach w Cam is security, not to be a full time starter and some fans are talking like its Sept. and Cam Newton has named the full time starter.

 

Even if so...some fans don't understand football has alot to do w schemes..Cam Newton schemed right could still win some teams some games...

Edited March 18, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[stinky finger]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m no cam guy, but this take is old.  They would have beaten us at home with the worst front 7 ever.....but Zimmer made a helluva play and Cam made a blunder at the same time to ***** defeat from the hands of victory.  There’s no doubt that they can beat us.  I’d say we’re the clear favorites and the beater team, but they can win a game 💯 maybe even two is we don’t bring out A game.  The better team doesn’t always win in the nfl

 

Yessir - they’re comin’.

[GLP]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m no cam guy, but this take is old.  They would have beaten us at home with the worst front 7 ever.....but Zimmer made a helluva play and Cam made a blunder at the same time to ***** defeat from the hands of victory.  There’s no doubt that they can beat us.  I’d say we’re the clear favorites and the beater team, but they can win a game 💯 maybe even two is we don’t bring out A game.  The better team doesn’t always win in the nfl

The Patriots aren't done yet. The draft is next month and I see Bill B. moving up in the 1st round to take a QB, so if Cam stumbles again they can switch to a new rookie QB.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, GLP said:

The Patriots aren't done yet. The draft is next month and I see Bill B. moving up in the 1st round to take a QB, so if Cam stumbles again they can switch to a new rookie QB.

I expect them to make a run at Deshaun. I’d be shocked if they don’t.

[T master]

AS they say every year is a new year and even though last year was great for the Bills NE had a lot going against them with Brady leaving and all the opt outs on the D that they had this year will be a bit different and it will let us know exactly what the Bills are made of !

 

Bellichek was super pissed last year and you know he will do everything in his power to not have the same result as last year plus with the opt outs coming back on the D & them getting Vanoy back their D will be a lot better .

 

It's going to be a battle for the Bills to repeat a sweep of the division this year but i can't wait i think they can still do it but they do need some do need a pass rusher to either step up or get another in FA .

[prissythecat]

10 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

The same way you defend every offense.  Score more points.

 

So you advocate for going into a shoot out?  That doesn't work very well against certain teams like KC.

[Patrick Duffy]

I'm not too worried about the Pats TE's for the most part, unless they get a QB that can deliver to them. Hopefully they defend K.C's TE better next time around though. Some of those bigger TE's seemed to give them trouble last season. 

 

 

[bigK14094]

The HH TE Pats signed beat the Bills when he was on the Ravens.

[oldmanfan]

Beane is not done yet.  HE's letting the dust settle and will likely pick up a couple more FAs - veterans who et released for cap reasons.  Relax.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

9 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

So you advocate for going into a shoot out?  That doesn't work very well against certain teams like KC.

Yes I advocate scoring more points than the other team.  The Bills spent too many years trying to not mistakes on offense, and play good defense.   It doesn't work and you have years of evidence to prove my point.

 

What works is scoring a lot of points.   When you say it doesn't work certain teams like KC, you're making the point about one team out of 32.   It doesnt always work against KC because they are smart, they also try to score more points than the other team.      The bottom line is winning a championship are insufferably hard to start with, but when you try to win one by playing defense you make it ten times harder on yourself.   17 of the last 20 Superbowls have been won by Hall of Fame, or future Hall of Fame Quarterbacks.  Those teams didn't win because they were able to cover Tight Ends, they won because they had the better player behind center on that day. 

[Logic]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

But this trend continued late in the season and into the playoffs when those two were apparently healthy.... I think the middle of the field was just targeted more this past season. Teams may have realized Edmunds isn’t all that great in coverage as advertised.  

The Colts and Chiefs ate against the Bills defense for sure.

 

In between those, though, they held Mark Andrews (an elite tight end having a great season) to 4 catches for 28 yards. 
 

My point is simply that I believe the Bills DO have the ability to limit opposing tight ends when healthy. Time will tell whether that belief is correct. I do not think that 2021 will be a repeat of 2020, in terms of defending TEs.

 

[Success]

I just want to see Belichick throw his phone again.  I don't think I'm asking for much.

 

That almost made the previous 2 decades of misery worth it...

 

[PatsFanNH]

Defend the Pats TE? Easy if it Newton just stand in front of them  and you grab the short thrown pass otherwise watch for falling plane parts as he hits a passing 747 on an overthrow. Lol

I as a pats fan want see what we do for WB because I don’t believe Cam has anything left but I will still cheer and yell at my tv for the Pats if he is our QB. (Note to self to set some stimulus money aside for new tv after I break old one watching Cam play)

Edited March 18, 2021 by PatsFanNH

[Beerball]

11 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I don’t know so I’m asking. Will this give Edmunds greater value? I’m not impressed with his pass rush but if I’m thinking correctly his pass coverage is pretty decent, especially when he’s paired up with Milano. Not liking the idea of the Patriots employing 2 pass catching TEs again though.

Press the QB.

 

end of story

[Success]

1 hour ago, Ghost_002! said:

I do not think some bills fans will survive if/when the pats make it official that they have another QB.

 

 

It's like it's been clearly reported their approach w Cam is security, not to be a full time starter and some fans are talking like its Sept. and Cam Newton has named the full time starter.

 

Even if so...some fans don't understand football has alot to do w schemes..Cam Newton schemed right could still win some teams some games...

 

On that 1st line, it depends who it is.  If they find a way to get Watson, they'll have to cart me away for sure.  I'll probably be all wild-eyed and singing showtunes, or something like that.

 

But I agree. Cam's contract looks very much like that of a back-up.  It feels like BB has something in mind (and they could trade a ton of picks to move up in the draft now without missing out on too much, with all of the holes they have filled).

 

[Big Gun]

Won't be hard as their QB stinks. 

 

Cam is a terrible QB.