Carson Wentz to the Colts

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Physical as in arm talent wise. The playbook is smaller with a QB like Rivers. Wentz can throw neither any pass you want. 

Rivers could make all of the throws. He just looks weird doing it.  https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2019/01/10/philip-rivers-throwing-motion-shot-put

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Rivers could make all of the throws. He just looks weird doing it.  https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2019/01/10/philip-rivers-throwing-motion-shot-put

I dunno, maybe it’s just me. I’d rather my team have a QB like Wentz and Allen. Just more potential there to tap into. 

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, LEBills said:

I guess Andrew Luck isn’t unretiring? 

 

Colts are gonna be a tough team this year

McAfee basically called all that out as BS

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree they are a contender for sure.  I really liked Pittman coming out of college too and think he is going to keep getting better next year as well.

 

The main reason I am sold on whether or not Wentz can be an upgrade to Rivers though is he was one of the worst rated passers in the NFL last year while throwing from a clean pocket.  So the excuse of a bad OL doesn't excuse those inaccuracies.  Maybe its a confidence issue, maybe its he played above his ability for part of a season in 2017.  We don't really know.  I mean we have seen guys like Nick Foles have small great stretches of football in their careers too and just not be as good as those small pockets made it seem.  

 

So I am not ready to say Wentz rebounds to a point he is automatically an upgrade to Rivers just yet.  But I do fully acknowledge the potential is there.  

 

I do think at the very least the Colts are no worse off than they were with Rivers last year because he wasn't relied on to carry the team.  They have a good overall roster there for sure.  

 

And if Wentz can be an upgrade to Rivers, then Colts are firmly in the "real threat" category of the Bills, Titans, Browns, and Ravens next year to the Chiefs in the AFC.  If he's isnt much of an upgrade, or worse, then I think they are still a playoff team, but not in the same contender status of the others I mentioned.  

Agree 💯. I definitely agree there are a lot of warts for Wentz. But I do think things went to far the other way. That Eagles offense was kinda garbage around him and I don’t think Rivers was that good last year. But there’s also a chance Carson isn’t that good. 
 

but man, he is going to a great situation for a qb. If he can’t play well there, he should never start again.

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Even with a clean pocket, Wentz was bad.  Lots of sacks were problems reading the Defense or finding his receivers.

 

He's had only 2 full seasons.  He's had 1 pretty good season--and couldn't finish, relying on a backup QB to win his franchise a SB.  The next season he was 5-6 with only 21 TDs.....before being injured again.  Last year he couldn't finish the season because he stunk the place up.  He's the opposite of a leader---including in the locker room.

 

The Colts may not even be the best team in their division now.

Yeah, I can’t argue with that. I think the Philly situation kinda sucked and I’ve seen Wentz so elite things. He carried garbage to the playoffs a couple of years ago.  I think he will do well in Indy, but I won’t be shocked either way. 

[Utah John]

This will likely turn out very well for Indy, but they are taking a big chance on Wentz, that he can turn things around.

 

Although the Colts did not give up much, they are now saddled with the huge contract Wentz signed.  It will be expensive for the Colts to get rid of Wentz if he doesn't work out.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

He will, but not as good as Rivers. I think it's a net loss for Indy.

Wentz can be better than Rivers. He could also be worse. It's a good risk for Indy. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm a well known Rivers skeptic here.  But he has a long career as a very productive QB.  Wentz has one partial season. 

 

 

 

lol, I bet Colts fans would love reading that.

 

Physically limited?  How many games has Rivers missed in his career?  How about zero in 15 seasons since he became starter.  Wentz struggles with the physical part of the game and clearly, the mental part of the game.

 

One could argue the “many seasons” angle AGAINST Rivers because he was ancient and Wentz is not.

 

I have you backtracking like you’re playing defense!

[Ga boy]

6 hours ago, colin said:

reich + wentz = chan + fitz

 

colts lookin kinda scary

Not scared 😲

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

One could argue the “many seasons” angle AGAINST Rivers because he was ancient and Wentz is not.

 

I have you backtracking like you’re playing defense!

Bend but don’t break Weo

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm a well known Rivers skeptic here.  But he has a long career as a very productive QB.  Wentz has one partial season. 

 

 

 

lol, I bet Colts fans would love reading that.

 

Physically limited?  How many games has Rivers missed in his career?  How about zero in 15 seasons since he became starter.  Wentz struggles with the physical part of the game and clearly, the mental part of the game.

 

Rivers is known as the statue here in Indy.  No mobility.  Wentz can use his legs to scramble out of trouble.  Colts fans are stoked by this trade.

14 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

Not scared 😲

Bend but don’t break Weo

The Colts came close to beating the Bills.  Wentz can be that added component that they lack.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Physical as in arm talent wise. The playbook is smaller with a QB like Rivers. Wentz can throw any pass you want. 
 

I think JP got hosed. He got hurt on a dirty play and the team kind of railroaded him. He was electric with Evans, would have been cool to see what he could have done with another WR and a better defense. 

 

You are quoting opposing DBs?

 

JPL was hopelessly overdraft.  He was terrible. His career, for what it was, was a true gift for a guy who absolutely didn't belong.  "Hosed"?  nah--his entire career was a bizarre act of charity by the NFL.

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 💯. I definitely agree there are a lot of warts for Wentz. But I do think things went to far the other way. That Eagles offense was kinda garbage around him and I don’t think Rivers was that good last year. But there’s also a chance Carson isn’t that good. 
 

but man, he is going to a great situation for a qb. If he can’t play well there, he should never start again.

Yeah, I can’t argue with that. I think the Philly situation kinda sucked and I’ve seen Wentz so elite things. He carried garbage to the playoffs a couple of years ago.  I think he will do well in Indy, but I won’t be shocked either way. 

 

"garbage"?  lol ok. top 10 D and 14th O.  They lost that one playoff game that Wentz was physically able to show up for (for about 10 seconds).  

 

Foles won a playoff game the year before and 3 (SB) the year before that.

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

One could argue the “many seasons” angle AGAINST Rivers because he was ancient and Wentz is not.

 

I have you backtracking like you’re playing defense!

 

LOL....My point was he has had an outstanding career.  Wentz is a dud at this point.  He was playing like a 70 year old Rivers last year.

11 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Rivers is known as the statue here in Indy.  No mobility.  Wentz can use his legs to scramble out of trouble.  Colts fans are stoked by this trade.

The Colts came close to beating the Bills.  Wentz can be that added component that they lack.

 

 

And toss 15 ints in 12 starts.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[stuvian]

Howie Roseman actually tried to get a Matt Stafford package for Wentz. Too bad the Texans still have Watson under contract

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Mr. K]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Wentz is basically Ryan Tannehill leaving Miami and going to Tennessee. I expect Wentz to be very good in Indy. 

 

We can debate that in the future for sure. I never wish losing on anybody individual player outside of Marsha. That being said if they keep that strong running game rolling and protect Wentz I could see him having success. However, it would still be dependent on the team around him more so than Wentz being the catalyst.

[Seventeen]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Rivers could make all of the throws. He just looks weird doing it.  https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2019/01/10/philip-rivers-throwing-motion-shot-put

 

Except for the Hail Mary against us that didn't reach the end zone

[ticketssince61]

There goes two of  Colin Cowherd's dominos down the drain

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You are quoting opposing DBs?

 

JPL was hopelessly overdraft.  He was terrible. His career, for what it was, was a true gift for a guy who absolutely didn't belong.  "Hosed"?  nah--his entire career was a bizarre act of charity by the NFL.

 

 

"garbage"?  lol ok. top 10 D and 14th O.  They lost that one playoff game that Wentz was physically able to show up for (for about 10 seconds).  

 

Foles won a playoff game the year before and 3 (SB) the year before that.

 

 

 

 

LOL....My point was he has had an outstanding career.  Wentz is a dud at this point.  He was playing like a 70 year old Rivers last year.

 

 

And toss 15 ints in 12 starts.

He was behind the worst O line in the NFL.  Missing two of his top three WRs for majority of the season.  I give him a pass on last season.  

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Wentz can be better than Rivers. He could also be worse. It's a good risk for Indy. 

Well, considering Wentz has never been as good as Rivers, he’s already worse. 

[prissythecat]

3 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Physical as in arm talent wise. The playbook is smaller with a QB like Rivers. Wentz can throw any pass you want. 
 

I think JP got hosed. He got hurt on a dirty play and the team kind of railroaded him. He was electric with Evans, would have been cool to see what he could have done with another WR and a better defense. 

 

JP had a million dollar arm and a two cent brain.   Zero awareness in pocket .  Thats why he never made it.   Chucking up bombs for Evans to try to run under was never going to be a successful game plan long term

[Billzfan37]

8 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Plus I think Frank can improve on Wentz numbers. 

I see a Carson Wentz turnaround of Ryan Tannehill proportions about to take place.   They are the same player leaving the same situation.  Yeah, maybe Wentz doesn't have a Derrick Henry but Jonathan Taylor is no slouch and they have pieces that can play, good tight ends, etc.  Don't forget Wentz was probably taking the Eagles to the Super Bowl when Big D*!k Nick took them there just 3 seasons ago.

[snafu]

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Phillip Rivers was the #10 QB in 2020.

 

12 games, Wentz was #26 with a completion % 57.4 percentage.

437 attempts, 2437 yards 16 TD, 15 INTs. 

 

Somebody will need to be a magician to get Wentz to look like a franchise QB again... 

 

This is the way is see it, too.

I don’t think the Colts got better with this move vs. who they had at QB last year.  

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

This is the way is see it, too.

I don’t think the Colts got better with this move vs. who they had at QB last year.  

Forget the passing stats, Wentz has an even longer way to go before he reaches Rivers’ mental ability at the position. 

[snafu]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Forget the passing stats, Wentz has an even longer way to go before he reaches Rivers’ mental ability at the position. 

 

Absolutely.  Rivers experience and mental ability overcame the fact that he had no mobility.

Maybe a better line protecting Wentz will slow thing down for him.  Maybe being back with Reich will help, too. But you’re right that Rivers >>> Wentz when it comes to experience and smarts.

 

[The Frankish Reich]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - that’s why Allen needs to follow up with a great year. It does sound like Wentz wasn’t that popular in the lockerroom and that’s nit the case for Allen. 
 

2 - foles was amazing in the playoffs but Wentz had better numbers across the board than Foles in the regular season. What Foles did was amazing but Wentz was awesome that year and the Eagles were awesome with him. Can’t really knock him for getting hurt. 

Oh, no argument there. Just as a general rule I tend to follow: every QB can have a lucky or "on" game or even a few games. But when your replacement takes over and (but for a short adjustment period) the offense loses nothing or even gets better over a decent sample size and against representative or better than typical opposition, I just have to wonder how critical the starting QB was to the offense's success. 

[whatdrought]

36 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

JP had a million dollar arm and a two cent brain.   Zero awareness in pocket .  Thats why he never made it.   Chucking up bombs for Evans to try to run under was never going to be a successful game plan long term

 

It was fun a couple times though... 

[The Frankish Reich]

25 minutes ago, Billzfan37 said:

I see a Carson Wentz turnaround of Ryan Tannehill proportions about to take place.   They are the same player leaving the same situation.  Yeah, maybe Wentz doesn't have a Derrick Henry but Jonathan Taylor is no slouch and they have pieces that can play, good tight ends, etc.  Don't forget Wentz was probably taking the Eagles to the Super Bowl when Big D*!k Nick took them there just 3 seasons ago.

Yeah, but people forget Tannehill was pretty good in his last year with the Dolphins. Odd to see a young QB plummet like Wentz, even with key offensive parts missing. Josh Freeman maybe?

[Lv-Bills]

Wentz blows.  This is good for the Bills because this doesn't get the Colts over the top and will probably hold the Colts reasonably in check.  It's not that I don't believe in his skills, or his talent, but usually when a guy plays scared and is afraid to pull the trigger, they are done.  Wentz looked scared to fail.  These are the type of guys that can look good for a game or two, and everyone wonders if they've turned it back around, but when the spotlight comes on, the moment is still too big.  He's done.  His confidence looks shot.  He may look good winning a few 1pm games on Sunday against Jacksonville, but he's not the answer to win anything meaningful at this point.

 

Just my opinion, but he doesn't look like an athlete that believes in himself anymore, and NFL guys will eat him alive.  There's a lot of mental here that is getting in the way of his skill set.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Lv-Bills

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, Lv-Bills said:

Wentz blows.  This is good for the Bills because this doesn't get the Colts over the top and will probably hold the Colts reasonably in check.  It's not that I don't believe in his skills, or his talent, but usually when a guy plays scared and is afraid to pull the trigger, they are done.  Wentz looked scared to fail.  These are the type of guys that can look good for a game or two, and everyone wonders if they've turned it back around, but when the spotlight comes on, the moment is still too big.  He's done.  His confidence looks shot.  He may look good winning a few 1pm games on Sunday against Jacksonville, but he's not the answer to win anything meaningful at this point.

 

Just my opinion, but he doesn't look like an athlete that believes in himself anymore, and NFL guys will eat him alive.  There's a lot of mental here that is getting in the way of his skill set.

I think that's probably right.

I guess I see the predicament Indy is in - the team is ready to go to the next level, but their QB is gone and there's probably no realistic option for getting a real franchise guy like Watson - but it's still a little odd that they're taking a flyer on Wentz. Obviously they don't believe a career solid game manager of the Teddy Bridgewater ilk (not much upside, but not much downside) is sufficient to go to a Super Bowl. So they're going in the boom or bust direction. Stafford may have been a better fit but I guess they didn't want to mortgage the future. So that leaves you with ... Wentz.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Forget the passing stats, Wentz has an even longer way to go before he reaches Rivers’ mental ability at the position. 

 

I don't know that I disagree, but please bear in mind:

 

Frank Reich was Phil Rivers QB coach then OC for 3 years in San Diego - and they were years that saw Rivers return to a level of play he hadn't seen for a couple years

Reich was the OC when Wentz was drafted, and when he looked pretty promising in 2016 and 2017 (33 TD, 7 INT, passer rating 101.9)

 

If there's a guy on this planet who would understand the differences between the abilities of Carson Wentz and Philip Rivers (mental and physical), Reich would be that guy.  And I have the impression the Colts are a fairly healthy situation right now, with the GM and HC working hand in glove.

 

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yeah, but people forget Tannehill was pretty good in his last year with the Dolphins. Odd to see a young QB plummet like Wentz, even with key offensive parts missing. Josh Freeman maybe?

 

Freeman, I believe, was a case of substance abuse overcoming talent. 

 

I don't think that last is an issue for Wentz - though with his injury history, one can't rule out a role for prescribed pain relievers.  One can speculate, but it seems pretty clear that if nothing else, Doug Pederson's decision to take over the OC duties in 2020 was not a good choice either for Wentz, or for the team.

[Milanos Milano]

People will actually see how good Wentz is under the Colts. The right franchise for him to turn around and show his skills. 

[97bills]

Who knows if wentz gets better but I bet my bottom dollar he is thrilled to get out of Philadelphia what a train wreck. Now a oline and a running back and a coach that knows him 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

10 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Worth the risk to land a possible franchise QB. As we know you can swing and miss for decades. 

I don't know if I'd call what we were doing swinging and missing for a franchise qb. 

[97bills]

1 hour ago, Lv-Bills said:

Wentz blows.  This is good for the Bills because this doesn't get the Colts over the top and will probably hold the Colts reasonably in check.  It's not that I don't believe in his skills, or his talent, but usually when a guy plays scared and is afraid to pull the trigger, they are done.  Wentz looked scared to fail.  These are the type of guys that can look good for a game or two, and everyone wonders if they've turned it back around, but when the spotlight comes on, the moment is still too big.  He's done.  His confidence looks shot.  He may look good winning a few 1pm games on Sunday against Jacksonville, but he's not the answer to win anything meaningful at this point.

 

Just my opinion, but he doesn't look like an athlete that believes in himself anymore, and NFL guys will eat him alive.  There's a lot of mental here that is getting in the way of his skill set.

Yea but going to a place we’re guys are going to lift you up in a metal way and a coach that’s knows him will do miracles. On top of a oline with a running back and defense and sometimes just going to a new city I bet he fills like a ton of bricks lifted of his chest 

[Bag of Milk]

If you have a few minutes, I highly recommend you watch the following clip on Carson Wentz and a young fan who looked up to him.

I will always root for Carson Wentz because of it. 

It's so much deeper than football and so much more than just a game....

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Bag of Milk

[Southern_Bills]

I view this alot like when we got what a 6th for Darius? 

 

Pretty much the Colts were probably the only team interested because of the relationship the HC has with the player. 

 

Good move by both teams. Colts potentially get a QB for cheap and the Eagles "might" get a 1st and a 2nd for a player most wouldn't touch.

[Norcalbillsfan]

12 hours ago, TonyBeets said:

I know most will disagree but Colts will surprise a lot of people offensively.  Reich knows what he has in Wentz, and he also knows how the get the most out of him.  

 

Scary team

Thank you, so many people calling me crazy for saying this exact thing. Reich knows exactly how to utilize Wentz, reich was the mastermind behind wentzs almost mvp season. And people forget Wentz was getting murdered behind the eagles o line. Now he goes to one of the best. Great diversity at RB duo, and some young emerging wrs. Excellent defense. Im not saying Wentz is still mvp caliber, but the Colts will be a serious AFC team.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

Wentz is not a top tier QB any way you slice it!! 

Either was foles, but Reichs offense made foles and Wentz look elite, and Wentz put up elite numbers under reich. Now Wentz is back with Reich, with a better Oline and better D. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Beast said:

I think this move tells me the Jets may be set with Sam Darnold because, even though I know more QB's are available, I thought Darnold had Colts written all over him. In fact, I'd rather have Darnold than Wentz.

 

I think Wentz's best beats Darnold's best.... Philly's o-line offered him as much protection as a fishnet condom....he will have way more time in the pocket in Indy.

 

Would not shock me at all to see Indy go all the way next season.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

Wentz is not a top tier QB any way you slice it!! 

Point is he doesn't have to be. Plug him in that offense and I think they're good to go!

[Freddie's Dead]

Frank is a QB whisperer and coached Wentz to his best football.  Colts will be a very tough out if Frank can turn Wentz around.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Even with a clean pocket, Wentz was bad.  Lots of sacks were problems reading the Defense or finding his receivers.

 

He's had only 2 full seasons.  He's had 1 pretty good season--and couldn't finish, relying on a backup QB to win his franchise a SB.  The next season he was 5-6 with only 21 TDs.....before being injured again.  Last year he couldn't finish the season because he stunk the place up.  He's the opposite of a leader---including in the locker room.

 

The Colts may not even be the best team in their division now.

 

Agreed. By the time he was benched in Philly he was a completely broken Quarterback. His footwork has become absolutely atrocious, his decision making was disgusting and he had they yips when it came to actually getting the ball out. 

 

This isn't just a case of stick him behind a good line (albeit one that just lost its left tackle) and hey presto. This is a guy who needs rebuilding from the ground up. Confidence, fundamentals, technique, how to play the position. 

 

I'd like a penny for Chris Ballard's thoughts on this. I sense this is a situation where he has just said "okay Frank I trust you". Because a guy as talented in evaluating talent as Ballard can't possibly have looked at the tape and thought "this was just a bad situation in Philly." 

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Point is he doesn't have to be. Plug him in that offense and I think they're good to go!

 

He has to no be the worst Quarterback in football which he was in 2020.

2 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

I think Wentz's best beats Darnold's best.... Philly's o-line offered him as much protection as a fishnet condom....he will have way more time in the pocket in Indy.

 

Would not shock me at all to see Indy go all the way next season.

 

Even when he has time in the pocket he holds the ball for a fortnight, has to prepare his arm three time before he can actually force the ball out and ends up chucking it down the field when he has 3 open guys underneath.

 

I really do not think people are grasping how big of a job this is for Reich. Wentz is fundamentally broken. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by GunnerBill