Any doubt the Tampa running game wasn’t the difference?

[78thealltimegreat]

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

I think the difference was Tampa’s defensive line and linebackers, but I do think that the running game and the screen game helped open things up for sure

[Jauronimo]

I would say the Bucs defense holding the Chiefs to single digit points was a bigger difference than the Bucs 145 yards running.

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

 

That and the Bucs D was getting after Mahomes all night.

[billsfan89]

It is not that complicated, Eric Fischer's injury completely compromised the Chiefs O-line which led to Mahomes being under pressure constantly and KC not being able to do much on offense. KC was always going to have to put up points and without their key O-line player it all collapsed. 

[Rochesterfan]

Tampa Bays run game played next to nothing in the overall game.  TB’s defense and the fact the refs called the penalties that they let go in the AFCCG was the difference.

 

 

[RyanC883]

the Bucs running game allowed Brady to make key passes and keep pressure off Brady.  It was a clear focal point and the ability to run at will killed the clock and kept drives alive for TB.  Conversely, KC's horrid line due to injury kept pressure on Mahomes all night.  KC likely should have run the ball more as they had some success doing that.  But once they fell behind, that became more difficult to do, largely, due to TB running the ball well, moving it and killing clock.  

[H2o]

Fournette had some really nice runs getting banged around, changing direction, and making something out of nothing at times. Jones is the more speedy option who would find a crease and slip through in a flash. That's what we need. A running back who can burst through the smallest of openings and either gash you for a quick 6-8yds or be off to the races. 

[Nextmanup]

I knew we'd hear all about the Tampa running.  Good God.

 

The "difference" was a thousand complex things, not a single easy thing to point to.

 

Mahomes was clearly hobbled, seemingly more injured (foot) than when he played the Bills in the AFC championship game.  He could hardly run by his standards.  That was a huge factor.

 

TB consistently got big pressure on Mahomes and knocked him on his butt like 8 or 10 times!  

 

We couldn't come close to that.

 

Yes, Tampa did get in some effective runs now and again, but it isn't the key to the game.

 

 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

What did that have to do with the chiefs not scoring one TD?  In order to win, you have to score a TD (at least one). The Bucs front 4 was the difference imo.  

the chiefs ran a lot more 2-3 LB sets than they did vs us.  Vs the bills niemann played 37% (26 plays) of the snaps and Damien Wilson played 17% (12 plays).  I can’t find the snap count from yesterday yet but I’d bet that their Lbs played a lot more.  
 

A lot less dime in the SB = not the same as vs us.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I think TB's ability to bring strong pressure with 4 or 5 whilst bracketing Kelce and Hill was the big difference.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

I knew we'd hear all about the Tampa running.  Good God.

 

The "difference" was a thousand complex things, not a single easy thing to point to.

 

Mahomes was clearly hobbled, seemingly more injured (foot) than when he played the Bills in the AFC championship game.  He could hardly run by his standards.  That was a huge factor.

 

TB consistently got big pressure on Mahomes and knocked him on his butt like 8 or 10 times!  

 

We couldn't come close to that.

 

Yes, Tampa did get in some effective runs now and again, but it isn't the key to the game.

 

 

 

Mahomes was not good throwing the ball when he wasn't pressured either.

[Wayne Cubed]

Big difference? I wouldn't say it was THE big difference in the game. In the first 2 series TB didn't really do anything on the ground and the Chiefs inability to score meant they could stay with the running game.

 

Seems to me the big difference in the games was the Bucs defense.

[SCBills]

I thought it played a part early on.  Tampa Bay wasn't moving the ball in the beginning of the first quarter, while trying to push the ball down the field.  

 

They then came back with 3 straight effective runs, followed by play action off it.  From then on, they're offense found it's rhythm.

[LABILLBACKER]

All I can say is we have an elite superstar qb who should not be forced to be 100% of the offense. It's both stupidity and a terrible strategy.  Even Jesus Christ Brady needs a running game. And he has his whole career. Figure it our Dabs.....

[Mark Vader]

I have not seen Fournette have as good a game as he did last night, than he did all season long.

 

Anyone advocating for Fournette should really think carefully about that.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I have not seen Fournette have as good a game as he did last night, than he did all season long.

 

Anyone advocating for Fournette should really think carefully about that.

 He didn't really have a defined role. He was much better when Tampa made him the featured RB after Jones injury. 

 

Fournette probably doesn't make a difference for us this year. But he's a good RB and an upgrade. 

 

 

[Cray51]

I'd say the RB's were 4th or 5th in the grand scheme of things:

 

1) Buc's Dline pressure all game (and a depleted o-line for the Chiefs)

2) Mahomes lack of accuracy at the beginning of the game (potentially due to injury)

3) Double high safeties by the bucs on 82% of plays to limit Hill and shrink the field

4) Gronk being the go-to on 3rd and short and the redzone killer

5) RB play to drain the clock towards the end of the game

6) Ref's calling the Chiefs physical style by the book

7) Buc's home game vibe

 

There are 10-12 factors that played into this game - and I dont really believe the RB play was a factor until the second half (it was 21-6 at half)

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 He didn't really have a defined role. He was much better when Tampa made him the featured RB after Jones injury. 

 

Fournette probably doesn't make a difference for us this year. But he's a good RB and an upgrade. 

 

 

I watched him play this season and was not impressed.

 

he saved his best game at the right time, as did the Buccaneers defense.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

48 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

Their ability to run helped. Their ability to stop the Chiefs offense was the difference though. Buccaneers offense never had to stress because the Chiefs never made it close. 

 

The Chiefs decided to block the Bucs DL 1v1. That was the difference. They lost the game before it began because of the game plan. 

[JerseyBills]

50 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

Of course

KC RBs - 11 carries, 69 yards

TB RB - 28 carries 150 yards

 

I sound like a broken record but imagine how great Allen n the O  would be with consistency . They're already an elite O. A run game would make em nearly unstoppable.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

40 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Tampa Bays run game played next to nothing in the overall game.  TB’s defense and the fact the refs called the penalties that they let go in the AFCCG was the difference.

 

 

Exactly they just held our receivers until the pass rush got home and the refs weren't having it in the super bowl.  On a lot of those holding calls on the chiefs the receiver on the other side of the field was also getting held lol it was absurd. We wouldve lit up their defense and likely wouldve still lost because our defense was invisible 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Obviously not. The defense was, did you even watch?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I watched him play this season and was not impressed.

 

he saved his best game at the right time, as did the Buccaneers defense.

He's played well the whole playoffs. He didn't really have a role during the season. Jones was playing well. Buccaneers really never figured out how to use both RBs. Until late in the season. Fournette played much better as the feature RB. Jones played well coming off the bench. Basically the reverse of what they were doing all year. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

50 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

Our RB group is pretty forgetable to be honest.  Neither Moss or Singletary have much burst.  Ronald Jones has more burst, and Fournette is a pounder.  Tampa has a great front 4 pass rush.  They made Mahomes run for his life all nite.  In fact Tampa's defense is better then ours all around.  They played an amazing game last nite front to back.  They pretty much blanketed the KC receivers at all the crucial moments in the game.  Lavonte David and Devin White are much better then Matt Milano and Tremaine Edmunds.  No contest there.  But the pass rush against Mahomes was fierce.  

 

Bills would have played the Bucs much tougher then the Chiefs did.  But I think the league saw the blue print for beating the Chiefs.  Knock the snot out of Mahomes.  God I loved that.  Can't stand the hype he gets.  Allen is the guy.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Of course

KC RBs - 11 carries, 69 yards

TB RB - 28 carries 150 yards

 

I sound like a broken record but imagine how great Allen n the O  would be with consistency . They're already an elite O. A run game would make em nearly unstoppable.  

They didn't really run the ball until the 3rd. Wasn't like they came out and pounded them. That's where the majority of rushing yards take place. 2nd half of games. A lot of times the game situation dictates how you run the ball. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Nihilarian]

That third Bucs series they started by running it for 3, 6, 6 yards and that opened up the play action as the next six were passes to finally Gronk in the end zone. Being able to put the Chiefs back on their heals and made them respect the run was a big difference. 

 

Consequently as the Bucs got the lead and knew the Chiefs were forced to throw almost ever down they could pin their ears back and pass rush with that front four rather then worrying about the Chiefs run game.

 

Now, in the second half the Bucs did work that run game more.

 

Let's not forget that as good as that Bucs run games was, they couldn't punch it in the end zone on three runs.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

Obviously not. The defense was, did you even watch?

Tampa did a much much better job than us overall but I've gotta say kelce was comically wide open in the super bowl as well...that wasn't just a bills defense thing lol

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

I think the difference was Tampa’s defensive line and linebackers, but I do think that the running game and the screen game helped open things up for sure

 

For sure, but if you look at last night's game and even the 2018 AFC championship game where the Pats beat the Chiefs with 4 rushing TD's inside the red zone, the element that a potent rushing game would give the Bills O could have turned 3 FG's against the Chiefs into 3 TD's. That's a 12 point swing in a game we lost by 12. 

[JustWinPlease]

The difference was Shaq Barrett, Jason Pierre-Paul, Vita Vea and Ndamakong Suh.

The Bills defensive line can't carry their jockstraps.

[JerseyBills]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They didn't really run the ball until the 3rd. Wasn't like they came out and pounded them. That's where the majority of rushing yards take place. 2nd half of games. A lot of times the game situation dictates how you run the ball. 

Right but you still have to be successful and consistent doing it but minus maybe 2 -3 games we had zero success running with our RB

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Right but you still have to be successful and consistent doing it but minus maybe 2 -3 games we had zero success running with our RB

Minus 2-3 games we really never tried. They did close out a few games running the ball. 

 

They came into the year with mindset they would pass a lot. I think part of the problem was a lack of commitment and scheme. They went away from what they did last year when Singletary was very effective. 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

15 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Our RB group is pretty forgetable to be honest.  Neither Moss or Singletary have much burst.  Ronald Jones has more burst, and Fournette is a pounder.  Tampa has a great front 4 pass rush.  They made Mahomes run for his life all nite.  In fact Tampa's defense is better then ours all around.  They played an amazing game last nite front to back.  They pretty much blanketed the KC receivers at all the crucial moments in the game.  Lavonte David and Devin White are much better then Matt Milano and Tremaine Edmunds.  No contest there.  But the pass rush against Mahomes was fierce.  

 

Bills would have played the Bucs much tougher then the Chiefs did.  But I think the league saw the blue print for beating the Chiefs.  Knock the snot out of Mahomes.  God I loved that.  Can't stand the hype he gets.  Allen is the guy.  

 

You have to give a lot more credit to Tampa's O-line.  Motor and Moss would have looked pretty good behind that line and just look at much more time Brady had than Josh had a couple of weeks ago.

[JerseyBills]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Minus 2-3 games we really never tried. They did close out a few games running the ball. 

 

They came into the year with mindset they would pass a lot. I think part of the problem was a lack of commitment and scheme. They went away from what they did last year when Singletary was very effective. 

You're correct but It felt like they didn't try because even when they were on fire in the pass game,  we still couldn't run with our backs so Dabol put em on the back burner until late in games when we had a comfortable lead

2 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

You have to give a lot more credit to Tampa's O-line.  Motor and Moss would have looked pretty good behind that line and just look at much more time Brady had than Josh had a couple of weeks ago.

True. 

And the time he had was because KC feared the run game.  With us , they showed zero respect for ours, rightfully so and can basically have the front 4 just focus on getting to the QB. Last night they had to respect TBs run game,  making the front 4 less effective pass rushing 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

No two things that cost the Chiefs the game.  

 

One.  David White.

Two. The Chiefs could not get away with the clutching and grabbing of Tampa's wide receivers as they were able to get away with it against the Bills.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

You're correct but It felt like they didn't try because even when they were on fire in the pass game,  we still couldn't run with our backs so Dabol put em on the back burner until late in games when we had a comfortable lead

I don't know. I don't think it was a matter of couldn't based on players. It was scheme and commitment. 

 

Daboll's job this offseason is figuring out how to mesh the run game to the passing game. Bills offense reminded me of the old Mike Martz lead Rams teams. Just throw a run in there for the heck of it. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The difference was the Tampa pass rush combined with the KC O-line injury induced shuffling.  The Tampa run game was meaningless to the outcome.  The time management by Reid was also an issue.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

50 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I have not seen Fournette have as good a game as he did last night, than he did all season long.

 

Anyone advocating for Fournette should really think carefully about that.

yeah - he was bouncing outside when he needed to.  Didnt force anything, took what they gave him, and actually broke tackles.  He hasn't been reliably doing like any of that.

[Ramza86]

Tampa's front 7 and Chiefs banged up Oline were the only factor of relevance for the Bucs win.

[All_Pro_Bills]

40 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

No two things that cost the Chiefs the game.  

 

One.  David White.

Two. The Chiefs could not get away with the clutching and grabbing of Tampa's wide receivers as they were able to get away with it against the Bills.

What annoyed me most in the AFCCG was that the Bills coaches upon seeing how it was being called didn't direct our defense to rough up and abuse the Chiefs receivers in the same manner.  And dare the officials to call it on us but let them continue to get away with it.