Don Otreply Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Is there actually a player named "Aloe Vera Tucker"? Asking for a friend. Bet he has soft hands... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: I honestly don't see the Jets moving on from Darnold this year. Like what the Bills did with Tyrod Taylor, as they may want to see what they have in Sam with a decent scheme with some talent around him. OTOH, if they have already made up their minds about moving on, QBs Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields will all be there with the #2 pick. Although, I would think they will want to go WR DeVonta Smith from Alabama to beat Miami to the punch. The Jets also have the #23rd pick in the first round for that defensive player or RB the HC might want. The problem is that the Jets will likely not be drafting in the top 5 next year if end up starting Darnold this year and then eliminating them from being in draft position to draft a quality QB prospect (see QB purgatory). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, dneveu said: Jimmy G did play in a super bowl... but he wasn't exactly the guy that got them there. And they seem to lose a lot more games when he isn't playing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, dneveu said: I mean... they can't run the ball and they have no receivers. They have no identity. Hes a tricky case cuz he flamed out largely due to alcohol. Carson Palmer might fit the bill - traded in his prime to oakland. Put up his statisitcal bests in Arizona on his 3rd team. Palmer finished 5th in the league in MVP voting in his second season. He led the league in TD passes and completion percentage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I really liked Darnold coming out of college and I think the Jets did him no favors. The Jets have zero weapons and just a environment of pure chaos. If we didn’t have Allen Darnold would be a QB I would target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I guess it's possible. I don't know though, imo he's just not worth a 1st maybe a 2nd either. But you never know, he could be one of those that needs a different team and new start and could turn into a good QB. I wouldn't bet a 1st round pick on it though. That's just me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I think there are 2 teams to keep an eye on...Washington at 19 and Indy at 21. Both are in that range and both were believed to have been heavily involved in Stafford. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Assuming Watson is out of the Jet picture, I would take a 1st for Darnold in a heartbeat. They get Josh Fields and another 1st round pick, most importantly a new HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Becton, Williams, Darnold and 2 1st round picks for Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Anything is possible. But I'll believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, NewEra said: As bad as our guards are, I pray he’s not our pick @ 30. No guards in rd 1 or 2 please!! So, will the walls of Bills Stadium come tumbling down if they draft a guard at 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The same people who say "no way" would be open to selecting Aloe Vera Tucker, offensive guard.......with that pick. Vera Tucker is a really good player. Whether he is worth a first round pick really comes down to whether you think he can play tackle. I haven't got deep enough into his tackle tape yet to have an answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I could see the Rams sending their 2024 and 2025 first rounders for him. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 17 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: He has another year, similar to where jimmy G was when he was traded. Acquiring team could pick up 5th year option (assuming he’s traded prior to May) or decline and wait to see how he does. Colts would be a great fit. I don’t like Darnold but I do think the perception is that he’s been in a bad situation with little support -OL or weapons - and the Gase factor. A QB minded coach like frank reich might want to take a shot at him. That’s possible, but I can see Reich and Irsay trying to swing a trade deal for Wentz. The $ is high for him, but Reich did the best with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 With a title like that, how could this thread have gone three pages without one Exiled sighting?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, ColeB said: So, will the walls of Bills Stadium come tumbling down if they draft a guard at 30? No. I just hope they don’t pick a guard @ 30. Great question though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 hours ago, eball said: I'm pretty certain at this point Sam does not. What makes you certain of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Sam Darnold is not that bad, its not like he is Teddy Bridgewater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: What makes you certain of that? The lack of apparent development in three NFL seasons. Sam and Josh are by all accounts really good friends, and they both work with Jordan Palmer. Sam was a "chosen one" at the QB position, playing at USC and lauded as "the next best thing" as a freshman. It came easy to him, and I don't get the impression he is putting in the necessary work. It's really a study in contrast between a guy who has had to fight for everything (Josh) and one who has had a lot handed to him (Sam). Doesn't make him a bad guy, but how many uber-talented athletes never reach greatness because they just don't have the necessary drive? That's what I see in Sam. Do I know this for certain? Of course not, but it is my instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I don't see it with Darnold. Not a fan at all. Look at a kid like Stafford. Tough as nails. Puts up the stats every season on hopeless teams. Took the Lions of all organizations to the playoffs 3 different seasons. Plays hurt all the time. Has the mental toughness to deal with perpetual losing without cracking. Hardly ever misses time. Darnold has missed a lot of time and just seems lost and/or mentally beaten down. Now, he's in a terrible spot. But still, some guys keep plugging away (Stafford, Carr) and others like Darnold just seem to melt. When a guy who has gone through playing on a miserable team like Stafford finally gets a shot on a good team with a real coach, watch what happens. He was never broken. Darnold is going to need to be "reconstructed" and that's a low % proposition, IMO. Edited February 5, 2021 by TheFunPolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, eball said: The lack of apparent development in three NFL seasons. Sam and Josh are by all accounts really good friends, and they both work with Jordan Palmer. Sam was a "chosen one" at the QB position, playing at USC and lauded as "the next best thing" as a freshman. It came easy to him, and I don't get the impression he is putting in the necessary work. It's really a study in contrast between a guy who has had to fight for everything (Josh) and one who has had a lot handed to him (Sam). Doesn't make him a bad guy, but how many uber-talented athletes never reach greatness because they just don't have the necessary drive? That's what I see in Sam. Do I know this for certain? Of course not, but it is my instinct. I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 hours ago, whorlnut said: I think there are 2 teams to keep an eye on...Washington at 19 and Indy at 21. Both are in that range and both were believed to have been heavily involved in Stafford. Darnold is on year 4 of his contract. So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option? Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Becton, Williams, Darnold and 2 1st round picks for Watson. Williams? Can you be more specific? You mean the guy they traded to the Giants, who had a DPOY-type season this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. I use the comparison because these are both 1st round QBs taken in the same year who have both worked with the same trainer. One could argue Sam had the better scenario by far his first year, yet look where we are after year 3. I completely understand where you're coming from but I think my assessment is just as likely to be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Darnold is on year 4 of his contract. So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option? Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy. There's a ton of teams with needs - but id assume the watson pin drops first (if at all). After that its a lot of filling gaps and waiting for the draft. If the guy Denver wants at 9 falls to them, they will draft him. If not, they might consider Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. Josh has 10 times the natural ability Darnold has. Darnold’s “tools” have always been massively oversold. He’s not even close to having one elite trait. The two just can’t be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I don't think that's going to happen. 2nd rounder is the most they'll get for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, mannc said: Josh has 10 times the natural ability Darnold has. Darnold’s “tools” have always been massively oversold. He’s not even close to having one elite trait. The two just can’t be compared. I think Josh has more talent too. I wasn't seeking to make a comparison. It isn't the question IMO. The question is entirely about Sam Darnold's future independent of Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Darnold's problem is and will be his decision-making. That's why I never got the hype with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, mannc said: Williams? Can you be more specific? You mean the guy they traded to the Giants, who had a DPOY-type season this year? Quinnen probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Quinnen probably Ahhh. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, mannc said: Williams? Can you be more specific? You mean the guy they traded to the Giants, who had a DPOY-type season this year? Quinnen. It's a big trade package, but realistic I think. Gives the Texans #2 overall this year, 3 solid roster players with some term left and no dead cap if they want to move them for other picks/players, and a 2022 #1 pick, which could likely be high as well. Jets get Watson and have the cap room to absorb the dead cap from the trade. Edited February 5, 2021 by TheFunPolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hahaha no one in this league is giving up a first for Sam Darnold. If the Jets trade him they will be lucky to get a 3rd. He’s done. A bust. You don’t play 3 years in the league and regress like he has just because your team sucks. I was never a Sam hater, I thought he had some potential to be a starter, but I’ve watched most of his games and he is HORRIBLE. His main problem is he has no idea where to go with the ball. He just doesn’t have the mental acuity down enough to be successful. Yeah, he will roll out and make a Wow play here and there out of structure but he’s on to backup-ville after his time with the Jets is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I think Darnold is closer to being some teams back up QB than resurrecting his career as a starter, he has a very slim chance of being a top half of the league QB at this point. Jmo. Edited February 6, 2021 by Don Otreply 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I'm kind of in the middle on Darnold. Would I give up a later 1st for him? No...No I would not. Do I believe some team would? Yes...Yes I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 1:36 PM, dave mcbride said: Interesting take. It's got me thinking too - which top 10 QBs didn't produce for their first three years and then flourished a few years later, either for the team that drafted them or elsewhere? I can think of Jim Plunkett, Steve Young, Terry Bradshaw, Tannehill (not sure if he fits; he was never really that bad) and Alex Smith. Steve Bartkowski (questionable, but he did have a couple of very good seasons 6-7 years after he was drafted #1 overall), Vinnie Testaverde (similar), and Jeff George (believe it or not, similar) all semi-qualify too. Maybe Sam Bradford? He played pretty well over the course of 17 games for Minnesota before getting hurt again. Maybe not. Anyway, your larger point stands: it's basically a sea of continued failure going back decades for top ten picks who fail out of the gate: http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb. I don't think Bradshaw counts. Steelers lost in the AFC Championship game to the undefeated Felons team his 3rd year. I remember him not looking too good his rookie year, but I don't think he was ever in danger of being dumped. Now Plunkett & Young, yeah, they didn't look good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Obviously the Bills are not in on this, but if a team I was a fan of gave up a first for him I would feel like Aaron Maybin was drafted all over again. He was very inconsistent in college, did absolutely nothing to change that perception in the pros. I believe Indy is a team that just needs a QB(hello Derek Carr?) But if Darnold went there they may as well fold up tent. Not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Darnold is on year 4 of his contract. So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option? Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy. The Jets have to make that decision by may 5th. It's extremely unlikely they pick up the 5th year because Darnold would make something like 25 million+ for the 5th year. I can't imagine anyone wants to commit around 12.5% of the cap to a guy who they have no idea if he can play. So anyone who trades for him will be getting 1 year and the best case scenario is he lights it up and they get to immediately hand him a huge contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Rico said: I don't think Bradshaw counts. Steelers lost in the AFC Championship game to the undefeated Felons team his 3rd year. I remember him not looking too good his rookie year, but I don't think he was ever in danger of being dumped. Now Plunkett & Young, yeah, they didn't look good at all. Good point. His stats were abjectly terrible in 1972 by today’s standards, but if you look at his adjusted passer rating that year, it’s 100 — which is exactly league average: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm. Another example that shows you can’t judge stats from that era using today’s stats as a benchmark. That said, he really wasn’t any good until 1975 (judged against his peers), his sixth season. After that, he was one of the league’s elite qbs. In those early years, the Steelers had a dominant run game and one of the best defenses ever. Maybe the best ever, in fact. Also, he was benched for a time in 1973: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-joe-gilliam-takes-terry-bradshaws-starting-qb-job/. . Edited February 6, 2021 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Good point. His stats were abjectly terrible in 1972 by today’s standards, but if you look at his adjusted passer rating that year, it’s 100 — which is exactly league average: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm. Another example that shows you can’t judge stats from that era using today’s stats as a benchmark. That said, he really wasn’t any good until 1975 (judged against his peers), his sixth season. After that, he was one of the league’s elite qbs. In those early years, the Steelers had a dominant run game and one of the best defenses ever. Maybe the best ever, in fact. Also, he was benched for a time in 1973: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-joe-gilliam-takes-terry-bradshaws-starting-qb-job/. . Yeah, I forgot about Joe Gilliam, you were right the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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