Tua benched again - will start in Buffalo week 17

[Dafan]

7 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

If they all finish 13-3 the seeding would be 

1. KC 

2. Buffalo

3. Pitts

 

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 minutes ago, Dafan said:

But in a three way tie it goes head to head.  Steelers didn't play KC.  So I believe it goes to next step which is division records.  KC would have 4-2 with steelers and bills being 5-1.

 

Division records is thrown out because the three teams are not in the same division. Next tie breaker would be conference record which would be a tie because each team would have one loss to an NFC team.

 

Bills would lose the SOV tiebreaker as of yesterday with the Saints gaining one more victory and further strengthening KC's SOV.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

That's more dependant on whether or not Tennessee wins. If the Titans beat GB, we won't be able to rest our starters in wk 17

Correct, well said, but I contend nor should we.  We don’t want to be the Dungy one and done, by resting healthy players vs. them staying in rhythm.  If we have injured people, fine, but rest for the sake of rest is not good.  I hate to use BB, but I can see having a,l starters that are healthy playing the first half, then start slowly taking some players out like Brown, Milano, White, Edmunds, and Allen.  They’ve been banged up for parts of the season.  Besides Sal even pointed out TR we don’t have that many players on the roster as your can’t elevate you’re entire practice squad.  For example we only have I think 8 or 9 O Lineman so that won’t work.

[Bubba Gump]

12 minutes ago, Dafan said:

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

 

Thanks, now my head hurts. 

[LABILLBACKER]

49 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

To be fair Fitzpatrick is playing with the same recievers.  With Fitz they have a NFL offense.  With Tua its a dumpster fire.  Miami has to win mythodicaly.  I get being scared of bad Fitz.  When the game is slipping away who cares if there are picks.  Out of the rookie Qbs who played Tua is above Danuzzi and below everyone else.

Fitz is great in small doses but if he plays in a full game(s) his flaws rise to the top. Benching Tua twice in one season hardly screams future franchise qb for Miami?  I feel alot better about our success in the afce knowing the Jets won't be getting TL and Tua could end up a bust?

[Warcodered]

53 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well...Allen and D-Dawk of course.  John Miller, believe it or don't (Carolina).  Zay Jones.  Not starting but McCoy still playing (Tampa).

 

Parker, Gesicki, and Gaskin for Miami are all good players.  And frankly Fitzpatrick is a better QB (not player, QB) than Allen was in 2018.

 

As a whole, the Miami offense is 16th in the league for points.  The 2018 Bills offense was 30th in the league for points.   There is no way to construct a reasonable argument that the Bills 2018 offense was better or had more talent than Miami's offense this year.

 

Fitzpatrick is a better QB than Tua this year.  Flores wants to win, but this business of pulling Tua whenever the going gets tough - I don't see how that's going to work for either Flores or for Tua in the long term.  However you "spin" it the message to both Tua and to the team is "we don't trust you to rev up your clutch gene and pull it out when the going gets tough"

 

48 minutes ago, eball said:

Yep. What exactly is the message to this Fish team?

 

”Tua is our guy, except when we are behind in the 2nd half because we know he’s not clutch. But after Fitz gives us a spark and chance to win don’t get too comfortable because Tua is our guy next week.”

Flores is trying to have his cake and eat it to, refuses to focus on whatever is most important to him or can't make up his mind. Does he want to develop Tua or does he want to win no matter what.

[TheBrownBear]

Dolphins have a solid team and Flores wants to give the guys a chance to make a run.  I don't think his bullpen usage of Fitz does long-term damage to Tua, so long as he's clearly communicating behind the scenes with his QBs about where they stand.

 

Also, I want the Dolphins to win next week to avoid Baltimore.  I really don't care who we get besides them, but it would suck pretty hard to go 13-3, get a 2 seed and then have to face a red hot Ravens team, who is at worst, the third best team in the conference.

[machine gun kelly]

11 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Thanks, now my head hurts. 

Pretty simple, just keep winning.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

Also, I want the Dolphins to win next week to avoid Baltimore.  I really don't care who we get besides them, but it would suck pretty hard to go 13-3, get a 2 seed and then have to face a red hot Ravens team, who is at worst, the third best team in the conference.

 

I was surprised to see that Baltimore has a number of different ways they can get in if they win out. In fact, they can finish as high as the 5th seed. Either of the Browns or Colts finishing 1-1 would get the Ravens in. 

[machine gun kelly]

I honestly don’t know what Flores is thinking.  He clearly has a better shot to make the playoffs if Fitz is starting.  It’s kind of not fair as of all positions, the QB situation is most difficult for a rookie with no pre-season.  Get in the dance by trying to win with Fitz.  Let Tua learn and take his shot next year.  Besides Flores is messing with the guy’s head by benching him multiple times.  Stick with him or don’t.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

It's got to be hard on the whole team too. The skill position players, the defense, everyone. They all see how much better the offense moves the ball down the field with Fitz. Why bust your ass for this coach for an entire half trying to keep a game close waiting for Fitz to come in so you can win by 3? Start Fitz from  the get go and you can have some nice numbers for your next contract and maybe not have to play the final few minutes of the game with a  comfortable lead.

[BillsFan619]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Tua can't complete a pass beyond 10 yards.  So you play press man and rush 5-6 on every play.  He won't stand a chance.  We're lucky Flores is an idiot.  Fitz would at least force us to defend the whole field.

Tua is terrible! I just don’t get why he’s so hyped.

 

Oh well, good for us. Keep believing in a below average quarterback.

[BillsFan619]

41 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Fitz is great in small doses but if he plays in a full game(s) his flaws rise to the top. Benching Tua twice in one season hardly screams future franchise qb for Miami?  I feel alot better about our success in the afce knowing the Jets won't be getting TL and Tua could end up a bust?

And the Pats are stuck with no good QB either.

[buffalo2218]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Correct, well said, but I contend nor should we.  We don’t want to be the Dungy one and done, by resting healthy players vs. them staying in rhythm.  If we have injured people, fine, but rest for the sake of rest is not good.  I hate to use BB, but I can see having a,l starters that are healthy playing the first half, then start slowly taking some players out like Brown, Milano, White, Edmunds, and Allen.  They’ve been banged up for parts of the season.  Besides Sal even pointed out TR we don’t have that many players on the roster as your can’t elevate you’re entire practice squad.  For example we only have I think 8 or 9 O Lineman so that won’t work.

Yeah I’m in the keeping the starters playing regardless group. The fear of injury to key position players is understandable. But I’m in the keep the momentum going group. Whoever we play in the first round be it the Ravens, Titans or Dolphins is who we play. Whatever happened before is irrelevant concerning teams we already played, that includes KC. Allen has already shown he’s a prime time performer. If the defense steps up close to his level, this will be a deep playoff run

[buffalo2218]

3 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

Tua is going to bust. He's hot garbage. Can't wait, so I can see the Alabama fans here make excuses.

 

Traaaaash

If Tua busts, that will end up being an epic failure on the Dolphins, even with all of Houston’s picks. What’ll be funnier is Fitz signing with the Bills after this year for a backup role.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

If things break our way, and we have nothing to play for, I’d be shocked if he plays our top guys.

 

 

Certainly possible, but I doubt it.

 

Last year having nothing to play for in week, 17, Allen threw 5 passes before being replaced by Barkley.

[buffalo2218]

10 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

It's just funny you know?

 

Name an Alabama QB that's done anything in the NFL. Joe Namath?

 

It's super easy to win when you are surrounded with more talent than your opposition at Vanderbilt or Mississippi State. 

 

WHOLE other animal at the NFL level.

 

Good luck, noodlearm Tua. Godspeed.

Tua’s personality showed when he made a comment saying the NFL wasn’t as hard as he thought. While many praise Flores for what he’s doing in Miami, compared to Saban in college, Flores is nothing. Tua had that luxury in college, but at the pro level, he has a very steep mountain to climb 

[Thurman#1]

26 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

It's just funny you know?

 

Name an Alabama QB that's done anything in the NFL. Joe Namath?

 

It's super easy to win when you are surrounded with more talent than your opposition at Vanderbilt or Mississippi State. 

 

WHOLE other animal at the NFL level.

 

Good luck, noodlearm Tua. Godspeed.

 

 

Jalen Hurts.

 

Richard Todd, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath. And Bart Starr. Which amounts to four Super Bowl championship starters and two very promising young guns.

 

But that's the wrong question. Name an Alabama QB between Tua and those early guys who built up enough expectations to be drafted as high. There aren't many.

 

What school you come from has far less to do in terms of predicting QB success than do the skills you showed there.

 

For Tua specifically, it's too early to tell. Far too early. Allen looked pretty bad his first year too. Plenty of QBs who later turned out to be very very good looked bad as rooks.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Richard Todd, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath. And Bart Starr.

 

But that's the wrong question. Name an Alabama QB between Tua and those early guys who built up enough expectations to be drafted as high. I don't think there are any.

 

What school you come from has far less to do in terms of predicting QB success than do the skills you showed there.

 

For Tua specifically, it's too early to tell. Far too early. Allen looked pretty bad his first year too.

 

[RobbRiddick]

Great game. No doubt Fitz scares me way more than Tua. Tua just looks like a left handed version of Tyrod to me. Plus people keep talking about his lack of turnovers but he got real lucky on a couple last night.

 

It'll be interesting with this constant benching whether Tua starts forcing it down the field more to try and make bigger plays. I hope so as he doesn't have a very good arm

[Chandler#81]

5 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

Flores is making a huge mistake with his constant benching. If Tagolavoa can't pick himself up off the ground himself, then he won't amount to much as a pro.

I disagree. He’s handling his rookie QB with kid gloves. He has this advantage because he has Fitz on call. It’s intelligent.

5 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Miami stinks I don’t care who they start just sayin

🤦‍♂️ No, they actually don’t. They’re developing a fine team across the board and have a plethora of high picks in the next Draft. Pay attention. Stay in school.

[thenorthremembers]

6 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

Flores is making a huge mistake with his constant benching. If Tagolavoa can't pick himself up off the ground himself, then he won't amount to much as a pro.

Its the exact game the Bills played with Manuel

[unclepete]

6 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Lol. Dream situation is we can rest our starters against them next week with vanilla plays and play them in the first round here 

Rather them than the Ravens

[Casey D]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We rested players and it was still a 3-3 game until the 4Q.  We weren't playing to deliberately lose.

 

World of difference between saying "OK, we're going to hold these guy out and here's our plan to kick their butts anyway" vs saying "we're deliberately trying to lose this game"

Definitely.  Like when Pittsburgh's third string running back basically beat the Bills and knocked them out of the playoffs back in the Bledsoe era.

[Seasons1992]

6 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Miami has to win mythodicaly.  

 

 

I don't want any part of a Fitz-led team in the playoffs. He's a witch, I'd rather play Baltimore.

 

#roastme

[HOUSE]

We are doomed....

[BearNorth]

Wonder how Tua will like the Sunday weather.  Around 32 degrees at kickoff, 12 mph wind off the lake.  Def not Hawaii or fall in Tuscaloosa

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Wonder how Tua will like the Sunday weather.  Around 32 degrees at kickoff, 12 mph wind off the lake.  Def not Hawaii or fall in Tuscaloosa

 

Remove your hat and stand silently at attention if you're going to invoke the hometown of that fine institute, suh!

*

😁

Edited December 27, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[BearNorth]

8 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Remove your hat and stand silently at attention if you're going to invoke the hometown of that fine institute, suh!

*

😁

Just the facts, he did play for the Crimson Tide, and doubt he ever played in weather like he will see next Sunday.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I feel like they are building a good team there in Miami and that they are coached well.  On the other hand I think Flores is a terrible coach for playing QB carousel.  Worst coaching I have ever seen.  You cannot say to your locker room after Fitz start that they are going to the rookie and then pull said rookie for Fitz every time they are down.  Most importantly that messes with the QBs, but it also doesn't send a good message to the team IMO.

 

They need to pick something... they are either a team that wants to win football games and make the playoffs or they are a team that wants to groom a rookie QB.  Can't do both and not have consequences.

 

That is exactly how they should be using Fitz.  Fitz goes very, very hot & cold so you use him as relief hitter or in football as swing tackle. 

He goes into game when game plan or QB is not effective and you need to change an element to have a chance at winning.

He is a gunslinger and will take chances other QBs will not take and despite what some say here is arm is better than they will admit.

Name another backup QB teams need to plan against?

But as starter he is a lot less effective IMO.

[Klaus]

Tua is still trying to play the same style he did in Alabama, short throw that the WR will end up taking for a first town. Trying to find the exact stat, but from a couple sources it looks like 70 to 75% of the yards Tua "threw" for in 2019 came after the catch (highest in the nation). That is what we saw last night, he had two completions go for 10 yards or more, and one of them was 2 yards behind the LOS when caught. Tua still has NFL WRs to throw to, but the problem is NFL caliber players are on the other side of the ball for the first time. 

 

Is he a bust? I think it is too early to make call, but I do think he was way over hyped and I'm looking forward to our D getting a shot at a Tue led offence next week. Go Bills. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Klaus

[MAJBobby]

Tua’s second benching. Looking more and more like a scared QB to push the ball downfield. Aka TT (don’t throw a pick) or CPT Checkdown Edwards. 

[Casey D]

So just for the slow amongst us, for Buffalo to have any chance to clinch the #2 seed this week, at a minimum Pittsburgh must lose, correct?  Just want to follow today correctly.  Then Browns or Green Bay need to win to lock it up, or almost lock it up baring a tie next week?

[dollars 2 donuts]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Certainly possible, but I doubt it.

 

Last year having nothing to play for in week, 17, Allen threw 5 passes before being replaced by Barkley.

 

I’ve stated this before and I don’t care how unorthodox this is.  If you want to give him downs, but aren’t really playing him, let Barkley start one series, then do Allen for whatever, and then put Barkley back in.

 

no reason in the world to be credited with a loss for two series of play.

[zow2]

I don’t see why starting Tua is controversial.  Flores is smart. He knows that Fitz is awesome coming in off the bench. He probably shouldn’t wait so long to get him in there if the offense is sputtering.  but he’s better coming off the bench and playing loose, than he is as a starter 

[Casey D]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I don’t see why starting Tua is controversial.  Flores is smart. He knows that Fitz is awesome coming in off the bench. He probably shouldn’t wait so long to get him in there if the offense is sputtering.  but he’s better coming off the bench and playing loose, than he is as a starter 

Right.  And because has a low floor and relatively high ceiling, bringing him in when behind is sort of nothing to lose.  A whole game for Fitz is more likely to expose his deficiencies.  Coming in when behind in relief, the downside of Fitz becomes largely irrelevant. 

[prissythecat]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its the exact game the Bills played with Manuel

EJ sucked and was never  going to make it.  

[4merper4mer]

Tua has shown a mental toughness and strong team attitude in the games I’ve seen.  He didn’t go over to the sidelines and pout last night.  He was a team player.  
 

That’s about all he showed.  He had the awareness of Todd Collins, the arm strength of Joey Harrington and the gunslinging mentality of glove wearing Mary himself, Trent Edwards.  All of that has to change for him to get better.  I’m not saying it is impossible by any means, but it is uphill.

[aristocrat]

Fits is like taysom coming in to move the ball. Two heads better than one in Miami

[r00tabaga]

Fitz is the NFL’s version of the Sandman.