Mike Tomlin over or underrated

[jlgarsh]

9 hours ago, TUBSTER said:

My friend is a huge Steelers fan and he always says these things about Tomlin.  He won the Super Bowl with Cowhers team and was handed a franchise QB.  He plays down to competition a lot of the time.  And how did he not win with all the talent he had in the years with Bell, Brown, Wheaton, Bryant, and Big Ben.  I do hear that Steelers fans like complaining a lot, probably because they haven't really gone through too much hardship when it comes to football.  I think Tomlin is a good coach, but not a great one.

He kept the Steelers from imploding with AB, Ben, and Bell. I think he's underrated, especially when it comes to managing difficult personalities

[TUBSTER]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wheaton and Bryant? Seriously? They sucked.

Neither of them were bad in 2014 and 2015, especially when you consider they're the third and fourth options on the team lol

4 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

He kept the Steelers from imploding with AB, Ben, and Bell. I think he's underrated, especially when it comes to managing difficult personalities

That's what I always say as well.  A lot of these guys that have left the Steelers turn out to be head cases and you never heard a word about it in Pittsburgh.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, TUBSTER said:

Neither of them were bad in 2014 and 2015, especially when you consider they're the third and fourth options on the team lol

 

 

They wouldn't make the current roster. They are not players where you say "how do you not win with those guys?" 

 

He had Ben, Bell and Brown and lost to less talented Patriots teams though. That is fair. 

 

[MrSarcasm]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:11 PM, MJS said:

Seems like they inexplicably hate their team. It's a little strange to me.

Is that just a PA thing? Philly fans seem to be the same. 

6 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

He kept the Steelers from imploding with AB, Ben, and Bell. I think he's underrated, especially when it comes to managing difficult personalities

I used to think the guy was worthless ( I mean he runs neither side of the ball) but then after viewing him more as a manager and less of a coach I will say he is a top 10 coach, possibly top 5. At the end of the day a teams record(multiple seasons) dictates the skill of the coach.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:07 PM, 17islongenough said:

Every Steelers fan I know hates him

Those people are morons. 
 

if McDermitt ends up with Tomlin’s resume, we build him a statue, he’s a HOFer, and the greatest coach we ever had. We won’t be nit picking him. He would just be a great coach.  

[NewEra]

He’ll go down as one of the best coaches ever and will be in the HoF.  Dunno if he underrated or overrated.  He’s dam good

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s also hilarious how overrated Cowher.  Tomlin is better than Cowher in every category and they have the same amount of Sb wins. Yet somehow he is a superior coach to Tomlin? That makes no sense.
 

I heard a sports talk dork say the Jets should hire Cowher and it was hilarious.  

[BringBackFlutie]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:05 PM, Big Blitz said:

Has he established himself as one of the best coaches in the league?  Thoughts?  

 

I know from 2013-2018 they underachieved or couldn't get past New England.  And Pittsburgh fans wanted him gone.  Remember the game he tried to trip up a guy on a kick return? 

 

The AB meltdown and Bell drama could have broke a lot of teams, but they were right to cut Bell loose and trade AB.  How many teams overcome that?  You can definitely say it's Ben and I agree he's one of the best ever.  

 

I don't know it's odd.  There are times to me he looks like one of the best then there are weeks he looks like one of the worst.  They now expect to lose to a garbage team at least once a year in Pittsburgh.  

 

Got a kick out of this the other day...

 

 

 

He plays him all the time?  Once every 4 years?

[Mr. K]

Aside from tripping people on the sidelines I think he is a good coach.

[SinceThe70s]

5 hours ago, Mr. K said:

Aside from tripping people on the sidelines I think he is a good coach.

 

I am a huge Tomlin fan. From where I stand he looks like a true leader of men.

 

But the sideline trip will always stick with me. It's a major blemish. For the most part, I'm able to look past it , but it will always be there.

[RyanC883]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:26 AM, nucci said:

like most fans...including here

 

except the steelers have had 2SB victories and another appearance and numerous conference championships while the Bills have made the playoffs and not advanced 2 times in the past 20 years.  huge difference. most steeler fans would abandon the team if they had the past 20 years we had

[Hebert19]

Hes a hell of a coach.  Outlasted everyone since he took over other than Reid and Bill.  I respect him and what he's done.  

 

Having said that...thats a team that has been good for a long time due to hitting on the draft.   They rarely fail at the draft.  Their picks have been phenomenal since Ben started.  So there's that too. 

[Talley56]

For the longest time, I felt like he was overrated.  When most coaches take over a team for the first time they usually take over a bad team without much to work with.  Tomlin took over a team that had just won a Super Bowl, had a young up-and-coming talented QB, and a very good defense lead by maybe one of the best defensive coordinators ever.  I think he benefited from a lot of help that most coaches don't get when they first become HCs.

 

Last year, though, I have to give him credit.  He took a team with Rudolph and Duck Hodges and nearly got them to the playoffs.   That was a darn good coaching job.

 

Still, though, I would say certainly at least Belichick and Payton are better.

[Paulus]

Well, where is he rated? My guess is #8eesh alltime. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Paulus

[QLBillsFan]

I find his press conferences consistently embarrassing. Here’s a guy who interferes with a player in an NFL game and basically gets a pass. His schitck is kinda angry HS coach. I’m not sure this works long term. He will replace his receivers who are arguably the best in the NFL. I think the Bills are better and his angry talk is getting old. Bills 34-20. 

[nucci]

3 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

I find his press conferences consistently embarrassing. Here’s a guy who interferes with a player in an NFL game and basically gets a pass. His schitck is kinda angry HS coach. I’m not sure this works long term. He will replace his receivers who are arguably the best in the NFL. I think the Bills are better and his angry talk is getting old. Bills 34-20. 

He has been there long term and won Superbowls. His receivers are the best in the NFL?

[stuvian]

on par with Cowher in their history and among the best of his era. I'm surprised and impressed by their record this year.

[QLBillsFan]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

He has been there long term and won Superbowls. His receivers are the best in the NFL?

Currently his receiver core is among the best in the NFL yes imho. He said after the Skins game he will replace them if they don’t catch the ball. My point is he’s angry guy to his team publicly two weeks in a row. I’m not sure that’s the best long term approach to this season. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I'll go with properly rated. 

[YoloinOhio]

Underrated, mainly by their own fan base who hate him and annually wants

him fired. - the man has never had a losing season. Even with Ben out last year. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[EersN'Bills]

Going to school an hour from Pittsburgh, I can tell you most Steelers fans HATE Tomlin.

 

The arguments have already been gone over: handed a great QB/Team, could never get by the Patriots with BB/TB, beat the weakest team to make a Super Bowl (Cardinals) etc.

 

I think he's a good coach and would definitely get hired if he was ever fired. But the Steelers haven't fired a coach since the guy before Chuck Noll in 1968 or something. I doubt they do this year after an 11-1 start no matter how it ends.

[BigDingus]

Man, I hate threads like these just out of superstition lol

I'd just feel so dumb if I said "yeah, definitely!" only to watch the Bills get manhandled later tonight.

[Da webster guy]

On 12/11/2020 at 2:29 AM, ganesh said:

However, he had the benefit of a Franchise QB handed to him on day one (one that had just won a super bowl) and has had him for his entire career.   As we see with Josh,  a Franchise QB makes all the difference.  I would still hire him though...He brings tenacity to the team. His approach has been very similar to McDermott

Yeah its interesting how a franchise QB makes for a heckuva lot of great coaches.  Not many HoF coaches that didnt have an elite qb.  Maybe Tuna is the only one that comes to mind, the rest all seemed to have top qb's.

 

QB's make everything sink or swim.

[Big C]

I am sure I missed a bunch of chat. I think Tomlin is a good manager of personalities but a poor manager of the clock, in short. He is good with building team culture but he isn’t good at making in game decisions and adjusting.

[blackngolddigger]

Depends on whose rating you go by.

 

I consider him to be slightly above average.

 

He keeps the Steelers competitive but doesn't give them any special advantage beyond their talent level.

[ganesh]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:25 PM, thenorthremembers said:

Dont care for him as a human being, but have to say he is a fantastic head coach.  Honestly, think there may only be three coaches better than him in the entire NFL.   Belichick, Reid and Payton (and Payton is debatable).  He is 21st all time in wins and is only 48 years old.   He could realistically coach another 15-20 years.  By the law of averages that would put him top 5 all time.  He is also already on the books as the youngest coach to ever win a Super Bowl.

 

Yes, he has had Ben his entire career, and Ben is great but he isnt Brady great where you can make an argument it was all the QB.    I really dont know if there is a sound argument to be made that Tomlin is overrated, he is a fantastic coach who probably ends up in the Hall of Fame.

Benn has been as good a QB as Brady.  However, I don't think the Steelers as an organization have put the type of team and coaching staff like Belichek has done for  Benn and the Steelers to win more than 2 super bowls.

[GunnerBill]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:21 PM, QLBillsFan said:

Currently his receiver core is among the best in the NFL yes imho. He said after the Skins game he will replace them if they don’t catch the ball. My point is he’s angry guy to his team publicly two weeks in a row. I’m not sure that’s the best long term approach to this season. 

 

I think it is overrated. Claypool I think could be special. JuJu has failed as a #1. He was a great #2 when Antonio Brown drew double coverage. He has been a below par #1 since. Johnson doesn't catch the ball and Washington is a reasonable #3 but no more than that. 

[QLBillsFan]

Seems they have fallen off for sure. I expected more vs Bills. Not that I wanted them to play great. Impressive shut down by Bills. How much of this is on Big Ben 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Mr. WEO]

over

[Greg S]

If Tomlin got fired from Pitt he would be unemployed for about 5 seconds. Despite their recent struggles he is an excellent HC.

[That's No Moon]

On 12/13/2020 at 12:51 PM, EersN'Bills said:

Going to school an hour from Pittsburgh, I can tell you most Steelers fans HATE Tomlin.

I went to school an hour from Pittsburgh too and I can tell you with certainty that there are plenty of people out there who hate Tomlin for reasons other than football.

 

His winning percentage is better than Cowher's. He's reached and won as many Super Bowls as Cowher.  Tomlin has never had a losing record. Cowher had a losing record 3 times. Cowher missed the playoffs 5 times in 11 years.  Tomlin missed the playoffs 5 times in 14 years so far.  Yet Cowher is a God in that town and as you point out there are a large number of people who would have Tomlin fired tomorrow.  Hmmm....

[streetkings01]

You never miss a good thing until it’s gone. I know the Eagles won a Super Bowl, but you don’t think the fans miss Andy Reid?

[That's No Moon]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:10 AM, QLBillsFan said:

Seems they have fallen off for sure. I expected more vs Bills. Not that I wanted them to play great. Impressive shut down by Bills. How much of this is on Big Ben 🤷🏻‍♂️

Their offense is broken right now.  They can't run the ball effectively and Ben is struggling mightily to throw the ball downfield. Whether that's his post surgery arm or his knee or a combination of both IDK.  Their entire offense is a short passing game.  That's hard to sustain in general, but its even worse when you lead the league in dropped passes.

2 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

You never miss a good thing until it’s gone. I know the Eagles won a Super Bowl, but you don’t think the fans miss Andy Reid?

Nope.

[ganesh]

8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I went to school an hour from Pittsburgh too and I can tell you with certainty that there are plenty of people out there who hate Tomlin for reasons other than football.

 

His winning percentage is better than Cowher's. He's reached and won as many Super Bowls as Cowher.  Tomlin has never had a losing record. Cowher had a losing record 3 times. Cowher missed the playoffs 5 times in 11 years.  Tomlin missed the playoffs 5 times in 14 years so far.  Yet Cowher is a God in that town and as you point out there are a large number of people who would have Tomlin fired tomorrow.  Hmmm....

Cowher won 1 SB with 2 years with his Franchise QB.   Tomlin has had Benn for his entire career (15 years) and has 2 SB appearances to show for it.   Cowher, when given the right team immediately won the SB. 

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Cowher won 1 SB with 2 years with his Franchise QB.   Tomlin has had Benn for his entire career (15 years) and has 2 SB appearances to show for it.   Cowher, when given the right team immediately won the SB. 

 

Cowher had arguably the best overall roster in the NFL for almost his entire career and continually found ways to lose to inferior teams year after year after year.

Then when he did get his only title it was because Dick LeBeau won it for him with one of the most brilliant stretches of defensive coaching you'll ever see.

Cowher may be a nice fella but he is probably the most overrated head coach I have ever seen.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:35 AM, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Wasn't this what they said about Andy Reid before he won the last Super Bowl -- i.e.., that he was a very good coach but would always get out-coached in the big games?

 

Yes only they are saying about Tomlinson who has actually won a SuperBowl already

[Rochesterfan]

31 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Their offense is broken right now.  They can't run the ball effectively and Ben is struggling mightily to throw the ball downfield. Whether that's his post surgery arm or his knee or a combination of both IDK.  Their entire offense is a short passing game.  That's hard to sustain in general, but its even worse when you lead the league in dropped passes.

Nope.

They are suffering right now what the Bills went through with Trent, EJ, and Tyrod.  When the only effective passing game is short to intermediate zones (between 0 and 10 yards) - it draws the entire defense closer to the line.  That effectively puts even more guys along the line of scrimmage to kill whatever running game you may have.

 

Then you couple that with an immobile QB and you invite run/pass blitzes making it even worse and it becomes a self-fulfilling circle where gaps are filled - so no running lanes, pressure is coming so you have to get the ball out quickly, the WRs are covered immediately and then also drop to many passes.

 

Now the question becomes (and this is where coaching comes in) - How do you change this in season with the players you have?  What options can you adjust in terms of speed/arm strength, mobility, o-line combinations, RB, etc. to either back the defense off or burn them.  
 

Right now Tomlin is failing them because this is 5-6 games with these issues and nothing looks different.  I don’t care if it is a play or two out of a wildcat with a speedster at QB trying to just get the DC on the opponent to have to adjust to you for a few plays - they need something.

 

As I said early in this thread - I think Tomlin is a master motivator and gets his team fired up on game day, but he is not an X’s and O’s guy.  He would be and should be snatched up as another coach as he gets results, but I just do not think he can fix or adjust his team as needed.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

47 minutes ago, Greg S said:

If Tomlin got fired from Pitt he would be unemployed for about 5 seconds. Despite their recent struggles he is an excellent HC.

I'd want to play for the dude and you're right he'd be hired in an instant.

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Cowher won 1 SB with 2 years with his Franchise QB.   Tomlin has had Benn for his entire career (15 years) and has 2 SB appearances to show for it.   Cowher, when given the right team immediately won the SB. 

When given the right team?  Jesus, that was the second to last year he coached.  And then he turned around with that right team and went 8-8. C'mon.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

They are suffering right now what the Bills went through with Trent, EJ, and Tyrod.  When the only effective passing game is short to intermediate zones (between 0 and 10 yards) - it draws the entire defense closer to the line.  That effectively puts even more guys along the line of scrimmage to kill whatever running game you may have.

 

Then you couple that with an immobile QB and you invite run/pass blitzes making it even worse and it becomes a self-fulfilling circle where gaps are filled - so no running lanes, pressure is coming so you have to get the ball out quickly, the WRs are covered immediately and then also drop to many passes.

 

Now the question becomes (and this is where coaching comes in) - How do you change this in season with the players you have?  What options can you adjust in terms of speed/arm strength, mobility, o-line combinations, RB, etc. to either back the defense off or burn them.  
 

Right now Tomlin is failing them because this is 5-6 games with these issues and nothing looks different.  I don’t care if it is a play or two out of a wildcat with a speedster at QB trying to just get the DC on the opponent to have to adjust to you for a few plays - they need something.

 

As I said early in this thread - I think Tomlin is a master motivator and gets his team fired up on game day, but he is not an X’s and O’s guy.  He would be and should be snatched up as another coach as he gets results, but I just do not think he can fix or adjust his team as needed.

 

 

He's the Dabo Swinney of the NFL.