PFF ranks Josh as 6th best QB in week 13.

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As to that latter, TBH I'm not sure how PFF's algorithm grades it.  I think the grade may vary according to an algorithm which takes down, distance, score, and time remaining into account (not kidding). 

 

I am pretty sure that if the QB throws an on-target ball they regard as catchable, they score it as a successful pass play for the QB.  He "did his job". 

 That's QBR that you're thinking of.  PFF grade on a different scale (QB play only).  And funny enough use Josh from 2018 as a negative play example.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-quarterback-play

Edited December 10, 2020 by The Wiz

[Stank_Nasty]

38 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

But they were the best garbage time throws anyone has ever seen.

 

PFF is trolling at this point or just hates Allen.  Either way, their metric is measured by a group of people that don't like the Bills so Fuk 'em.

They have him ranked as their 6th or 7th qb through the year. They’ve actually been pretty fair to him all season. There were some huge qb performances this weekend. There’s been plenty of times to be annoyed with PFF. This really isn’t one of them. 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

This is the more egregious tweet

 

How can Allen be fading after a week in which he threw 375 yards, 4 TDs with a 139+ passer rating (was AFC Offensive Player of the Week) and his MVP odds went from 34 - 1 to 13 - 1 (which is 3rd best)?

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

They have him ranked as their 6th or 7th qb through the year. They’ve actually been pretty fair to him all season. There were some huge qb performances this weekend. There’s been plenty of times to be annoyed with PFF. This really isn’t one of them. 

Read that caption from PFF and tell me otherwise.

 

If Allen "faded" in that game against SF then I can only imagine what he has to do to gain ground.

 

 

And I'm not calling for Allen to get MVP, both Rodger and Mahomes have been in a league of their own but this past weekend neither of them were in the top 5 in stats from any other outlet I have found and Allen sliced up a good D.

Edited December 10, 2020 by The Wiz

[NoSaint]

31 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

A drop in their metric doesn't count against the QB (at least I'm pretty sure it doesn't.  Also assuming they call it a drop and not a bad pass).

 

As far as which I would grade better.  I think of it like diving.  Every type of dive has a degree of difficulty which boosts your score depending on how well you do.  If they have a max of 2 for a clutch/tight window pass, that pass is a 2 hands down regardless of whether someone else might have been open.

 

Like I said, if you dissect a play for 5, 10, 15 minutes, you're going to find something that someone did wrong.  I know you stated that you don't necessarily mean that play in particular but looking at the other throws in the game and the 8 incompletions (4 of them throw aways) I find it hard to find a metric that can say his play wasn't one of, if not, the best of the week.

I know the drop doesn’t count against the qb in pff - that was kind of my point though. that just pointing at a stat line doesn’t tell the whole story, (but neither does pff).
 

 

All 6 guys had big stat games and I doubt it’s some huge drop off for josh.
 

I’m just pointing out pff agrees he was one of the absolute best in the week. Folks were acting like it was insane to be 6 but without analyzing on that level hes among some pretty big games up there. 
 

 

(and I’ll mention for you that you might find something wrong, but you also might find something better than thought analyzing it, like Davis being the right throw despite the open receiver)

Edited December 10, 2020 by NoSaint

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I know the drop doesn’t count against the qb in pff - that was kind of my point though. that just pointing at a stat line doesn’t tell the whole story, but neither does pff.
 

 

All 6 guys had big stat games and I doubt it’s some huge drop off for josh.
 

I’m just pointing out pff agrees he was one of the absolute best in the week. Folks were acting like it was insane to be 6 but without analyzing on that level hes among some pretty big games up there. 
 

 

(and I’ll mention for you that you might find something wrong, but you also might find something better than thought analyzing it, like Davis being the right throw despite the open receiver)

I think my bigger problem is with Tannehill.  Getting beat 38-7 at the half.  So basically Cleveland switched to a soft D and let them have whatever they wanted to move the clock and scored 28 points to Clevelands 3.  That didn't make him better because he completed more passes, it just meant the D wasn't playing the same as it was in the 1st half.  They were giving him free plays that basically they graded him better on than Allen when he wasn't given free plays.  That's my issue. 

[MJS]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As to that latter, TBH I'm not sure how PFF's algorithm grades it.  I think the grade may vary according to an algorithm which takes down, distance, score, and time remaining into account (not kidding). 

 

I am pretty sure that if the QB throws an on-target ball they regard as catchable, they score it as a successful pass play for the QB.  He "did his job". 

 

The bottom line is I agree with MJS that 1) PFF is not transparent about how they score plays or the algorithm they use to compute ratings and 2) they are transparent that part of their score depends upon observations they try to make objective, but that inherently have a subjective component (was that a catchable ball, an interceptable ball, etc etc)

If they really wanted to do it better they would need to have like 15 (or as many as they possibly can) of their analysts all grade each play and then take the average of all of them. Hopefully that would eliminate some bias and also the nuanced differences in how each individual is grading.

 

I'm not totally sure how they do it, though. It would be a lot of work to grade every single play from every single player. They'd need a huge staff. How many people do they employ? And they do this for college games too, right? I just don't know how they could do it well without a huge staff.

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

If they really wanted to do it better they would need to have like 15 (or as many as they possibly can) of their analysts all grade each play and then take the average of all of them. Hopefully that would eliminate some bias and also the nuanced differences in how each individual is grading.

 

I'm not totally sure how they do it, though. It would be a lot of work to grade every single play from every single player. They'd need a huge staff. How many people do they employ? And they do this for college games too, right? I just don't know how they could do it well without a huge staff.

From what I understand, 1 person grades the plays and then 3 others review the grade/play.  So basically it could just be a quick, yup that was a bad pass and this person said it was or they don't agree and end up compromising on a grade.  I get the feeling that with only 4 people involved in the grading process they normally work through each play/game rather quickly instead of arguing about it.

Edited December 10, 2020 by The Wiz

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They were all good in week 13. I'm not sure why people would debate? Who cares what their grading system says. Allen was near perfect. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, RichRiderBills said:

I'm just not even sure where Stafford would even have him. Josh Allen leads him in everything....what am I missing. Do they ever explain the metric?

That’s on a need to know basis and you...

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I think my bigger problem is with Tannehill.  Getting beat 38-7 at the half.  So basically Cleveland switched to a soft D and let them have whatever they wanted to move the clock and scored 28 points to Clevelands 3.  That didn't make him better because he completed more passes, it just meant the D wasn't playing the same as it was in the 1st half.  They were giving him free plays that basically they graded him better on than Allen when he wasn't given free plays.  That's my issue. 

Someone once told me you could hyper analyze and find the flaw in any play. Might be the case for some here.

 

if splitting hairs over 5th vs 6th, there’s something to be said for it being a great game that was acknowledged as such and then enjoying the debate instead of being frustrated by it (not you specifically but the global tone of “they hate him” for this)

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Someone once told me you could hyper analyze and find the flaw in any play. Might be the case for some here.

 

if splitting hairs over 5th vs 6th, there’s something to be said for it being a great game that was acknowledged as such and then enjoying the debate instead of being frustrated by it (not you specifically but the global tone of “they hate him” for this)

I agree.  I also do think they they don't like him though. 

 

Just having a health debate over how they grade is all. 

 

And it is 4th and 6th based on the OP list. And I think Mayfield played much better than Tannehill and was still ranked after him... And before Allen. 

 

The defense were a big part in that win but Mayfield was doing well on offense. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by The Wiz

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I get the sense that many posters here get a kick out of scanning every piece of media after a win until they find something vaguely disrespectful and then using it to suggest that there's a narrative against the Bills.  There's not.  Holistically we're getting enormously positive attention and analysts/pundits are fawning over Josh.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I get the sense that many posters here get a kick out of scanning every piece of media after a win until they find something vaguely disrespectful and then using it to suggest that there's a narrative against the Bills.  There's not.  Holistically we're getting enormously positive attention and analysts/pundits are fawning over Josh.

Not all of them but he is getting his due.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I get the sense that many posters here get a kick out of scanning every piece of media after a win until they find something vaguely disrespectful and then using it to suggest that there's a narrative against the Bills.  There's not.  Holistically we're getting enormously positive attention and analysts/pundits are fawning over Josh.

 

But but....if I don't find some negativity about My Bills, What am I gonna eat with those Fava Beans and that nice Chianti?

26 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I agree.  I also do think they they don't like him though. 

 

I don't think it's personal that they "don't like Allen"

 

But if you think about it, it shouldn't exactly be a surprise that a college QB who graded so poorly that various analytics gurus called him a "parody of a first round draft pick" and so forth, would still have elements to his professional play that would cause him to grade more poorly in their systems.

 

 

26 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Just having a health debate over how they grade is all. 

And it is 4th and 6th based on the OP list. And I think Mayfield played much better than Tannehill and was still ranked after him... And before Allen. 

The defense were a big part in that win but Mayfield was doing well on offense. 

 

Once again, I don't think their analytics pass the "eyeball test".  But since I never have particularly respected them (dating long before Allen) it doesn't really bother me.

[CircleTheWagons99]

I don’t know how many times I have to say this. Poor Football Focus. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 That's QBR that you're thinking of.  PFF grade on a different scale (QB play only).  And funny enough use Josh from 2018 as a negative play example.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-quarterback-play

 

I thought it still took down distance etc into account, but I admit I don't care too much so I may very well be mistaken

[BillsToast]

Give them credit as they are consistently trolling. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Anything run by collinsworthless can't be all that reputable....all these convoluted formulas and rankings are idiotic. 

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

is it insane to think tannehill may have made many similarly good throws regardless? 
 

I didn’t watch the game and 400 yards can be wildly slinging erratically or great discipline. I didn’t see if he was hitting his reads well to dispute his grade. If someone brings breakdown of one of the others playing badly, so be it. As is they all looked good on paper and the pff folks said they all passed the eye test. No need to be insulted by being among the very best scores in the week 

And pff doesn’t grade on just yards, I was just pointing out he was highly productive 

 

for instance, he probably got a very good grade on the Davis laser but might have come up short of the 2.0 score if they decided he missed the open Lee smith and shouldn’t have. 
 

I don’t think any of us analyzed these guys on that level. 
 

he’s in an elite group for the week.  

I’m sure he got a negative grade on the Davis laser because he had a wide open TE on the play. 

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, custcarcen said:

PFF QB rankings on NFL.com for games played week 13:

 

Rodgers

Stafford

Mahomes

Tannehill

Mayfield

Josh Allen

Uh Stafford ? Have they watched the Lions 

[NoSaint]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I’m sure he got a negative grade on the Davis laser because he had a wide open TE on the play. 

Only if they decided he should have been the read. And even then he’d likely get a positive score but possibly diminished a bit

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Only if they decided he should have been the read. And even then he’d likely get a positive score but possibly diminished a bit

 

Against Miami they ranked him 12th best for that week. No need to defend them. They are trash.

[John from Riverside]

Im telling you.....at this point is is just "my rep is on the line so I pray to god Allen has a bad game soon so I dont look like such a dumbass" PFF

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

is it insane to think tannehill may have made many similarly good throws regardless? 
 

I didn’t watch the game and 400 yards can be wildly slinging erratically or great discipline. I didn’t see if he was hitting his reads well to dispute his grade. If someone brings breakdown of one of the others playing badly, so be it. As is they all looked good on paper and the pff folks said they all passed the eye test. No need to be insulted by being among the very best scores in the week 

And pff doesn’t grade on just yards, I was just pointing out he was highly productive 

 

for instance, he probably got a very good grade on the Davis laser but might have come up short of the 2.0 score if they decided he missed the open Lee smith and shouldn’t have. 
 

I don’t think any of us analyzed these guys on that level. 
 

he’s in an elite group for the week.  

The read was not to Lee Smiths side .. if there. Was nothing open on the other side he would have looked .. but a quarterback looks at his first read and if open he hits it. You don’t want the QB scanning the full field on every play unless needed

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Against Miami they ranked him 12th best for that week. No need to defend them. They are trash.

This

[John from Riverside]

Let’s be real PFF doesn’t like Josh Allen and they don’t like Josh Allen because he screws up their metrics that they used to evaluate quarterbacks Josh Allen is an anomaly which their system cannot account for

[GunnerBill]

I mean they do have him 7th ranked among QBs for the season with an elite grade. They can't hate him that much. I think personally he is top 4 for the season but it is not like they have him 15th or something. The best 5 Quarterbacks this season in the NFL are very clear to me. It is Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Allen, Watson. There is a drop off after that. I don't even know who I would have 6th..... maybe Tannehill, maybe Ben... but the top 5 is pretty clear to me.

 

Whether you wanna go eye test or look across the board at traditional numbers... touchdowns, completion percentage, yards, yard per attempt, passer rating... or advanced stats like intended air yards, air yard per completion, performance against pressure.... that top 5 are all top 10 in everything. There are other guys who are good when you look at one metric... Teddy Bridgewater completes 70% of his throws... but he is 28th in intended air yards... which means he is throwing it about as far as you are required to stand apart under covid regulations.

 

It just isn't that hard to me. There is a 5 man elite group of Quarterbacks that has broken away from the pack in this league. And Josh Allen is in it.

[CorkScrewHill]

You people who hate analytics need to get over it. Just because you do not like the output doesn't make the output less accurate. As an example, I personally spend a considerable amount of time on an algorithm that ranks organizations that perform quarterback rankings. PFF scores relatively well at number 11 in my weekly rankings. Their score was reduced a bit by a few bad puns on their latest podcast and Steve Palazzolo's face in general. In my time performing these ratings if there is one thing that we have learned you can't overcome it is the tendency to tell bad puns and a close second is a person's face .. it is what it is and you can't change it. They did drop one spot this week from 10 as Chuck from "Ralph's Pizza Emporium" knocked it out of the park with his deep dive into the impact of Cam Newton's hair style on his rushing ability, scientifically showing that Cam is a little off balance toward the direction the hair spike lays.

 

Numbers do not lie.

Edited December 10, 2020 by CorkScrewHill

[CSBill]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Im telling you.....at this point is is just "my rep is on the line so I pray to god Allen has a bad game soon so I dont look like such a dumbass" PFF

 

This!

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Let’s be real PFF doesn’t like Josh Allen and they don’t like Josh Allen because he screws up their metrics that they used to evaluate quarterbacks Josh Allen is an anomaly which their system cannot account for

And they've admitted it earlier this year.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/30/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-anomaly/

 

[PrimeTime101]

PFF can eat my **** and die 

 

[JDubya76]

You lost me at PFF. 

[Billsfan1972]

And Stafford's QBR was 85.5% (Rtg 109.4)....  He came back & won.  Good for him.

 

Tannehill 82.3% (104.8) 

 

Allen can't compete.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And Stafford's QBR was 85.5% (Rtg 109.4)....  He came back & won.  Good for him.

 

Tannehill 82.3% (104.8) 

 

Allen can't compete.

 

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Let’s be real PFF doesn’t like Josh Allen and they don’t like Josh Allen because he screws up their metrics that they used to evaluate quarterbacks Josh Allen is an anomaly which their system cannot account for

josh used to do bad things frequently, now he does fewer of those and more good things, which we all agree, and scores much better.

 

6th is akin to a pro bowl qb before any opt outs even. 

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

And they've admitted it earlier this year.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/30/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-anomaly/

 

he is a huge anomaly- 

 

so was someone like Brady. No one was worried he broke there system of not relying on day 3 qbs, and folks will still worry about accuracy of college qbs in the draft. He doesn’t break the “rule,” but does appear to be an exception in his ability to grow certain skill sets.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How long were you waiting to post that troll???? 

 

I read 4 pages and most laughing about the absurdity of PFF and so I checked (and posted) QBR's for two above him, which were not in any earlier post, but I want attention?  Hello mirror....  

Edited December 10, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[BuffaloBill]

15 hours ago, Warcodered said:

So wait Mayfield is ahead of Allen despite both fumbling and throwing an INT?

 

Yeah, but Mayfield is much better at self promotion.

[Not at the table Karlos]

I really think all the “hate”(maybe a little strong) towards the bills from media is because they know we will pay attention and generate revenue. Just ignore them 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Wait we are still doing that thing where we get mad and insecure because Josh had a big game and PFF didn't put him as the best QB for the week? 

yes

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 hours ago, custcarcen said:

PFF QB rankings on NFL.com for games played week 13:

 

Rodgers

Stafford

Mahomes

Tannehill

Mayfield

Josh Allen

it’s a breakthrough for them to rank him at all.