What happened to the deep ball?

[Penfield45]

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

[thronethinker]

Did you forget the bomb to Diggs today that led to first and goal? Sure it was PI, but still produced. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, thronethinker said:

Did you forget the bomb to Diggs today that led to first and goal? Sure it was PI, but still produced. 

Gabe Davis too on the free play.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Warcodered

[BillsFan130]

I don’t know why all nfl teams attempt at least 3-5 deep passes a game.

 

So many times it turns out to be a PI as as saw today, even with diggs being double covered

[JoPoy88]

Gameplan, opportunities, etc... “but but but KC does it” isn’t a very valid complaint. 

[SCBills]

KC has Travis Kelce terrorizing everyone underneath/intermediate, which opens up deep shots to Tyreek Hill.  
 

Up until today, recent defenses have actually been taking away the explosive plays from KC as well.  
 

Brown has been hobbled/out ever since those first 4 games.  
 

Diggs doesn’t have Thielen out there right now with no Brown... until Davis starts snatching souls week to week, we’re going to have to be more methodical UNLESS we can force teams to fear our run game.  
 

Getting Brown back changes all that, and it’s also why we sure as **** better get a second speed WR on the roster next year.  

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, thronethinker said:

Did you forget the bomb to Diggs today that led to first and goal? Sure it was PI, but still produced. 

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

[Don Otreply]

Our offense has trouble integrating a run game into our pass first game plan in a seamless fashion, I think this is part of that, but we are making strides in that direction. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

Diggs had him beat and the throw was fine.   There’s a reason why burnt corners don’t just turn around and intercept everybody. 

[CincyBillsFan]

We had two very successful deep balls today.  The first drew an interference call and set us up in a 1st & goal.  The second went for 47 yards.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Diggs had him beat and the throw was fine.   There’s a reason why burnt corners don’t just turn around and intercept everybody. 

I thought he was absolutely right on Diggs, but he just didn’t turn around. To be fair, the Bills may have suspected that’d be the outcome. I don’t think it was a bad throw.

Edited November 30, 2020 by dave mcbride

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

 

If the DB turns around that would have likely been a TD pass to Diggs.  The DB interfered for a reason.

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought he was absolutely right on Diggs, but he just didn’t turn around. To be fair, the Bills may have suspected that’d be the outcome.

He couldn’t turn around, he put all his effort into catching back up, i don’t think he stays with him if he turns around. I do think the pass could have been a little further up field in a perfect world...

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

If the DB turns around that would have likely been a TD pass to Diggs.  The DB interfered for a reason.

 

 

I really felt he had kept up with Diggs and had it covered. But again, he didn’t turn around. It was a bad play by him in the end. No doubt about that. But Diggs didn’t outrun him and the db was in position to make a play.

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

He couldn’t turn around, he put all his effort into catching back up, i don’t think he stays with him if he turns around. I do think the pass could have been a little further up field in a perfect world...

I see the good dbs make that last second turnaround all the time. Good dbs are hard to find, however.

[BillsFan619]

18 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

I'm not saying we did it a lot today but we had the Diggs PI and the Davis deep ball as well. 2 for 2 ain't bad.

[Simon]

30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

No chance at a pick.

Trying to turn around, keep your feet and track a ball at that speed is just not a realistic option.

You can do it if you're moving at 90% of top speed and under control, but selling out to a desperate sprint to try and close a gap on a guy at top speed, it just isn't in the cards.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BillsFan619 said:

I'm not saying we did it a lot today but we had the Diggs PI and the Davis deep ball as well. 2 for 2 ain't bad.

Agree with this. Just to nitpick slightly, the only reason there was a second deep ball was because it was a free play. Not a criticism!

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

17 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

As others have said, we attempted a few today. But your point is still Valid.

 

I think part of it is lack of confidence by JA In completing those. He’s still not accurate on the bombs, and I’m sure he knows it. I think the other part of it is we need more of a speedster out there with straight line speed— like how we had Robert Foster. Maybe Diggs can run those, but seems like his strength is intermediate stuff. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Simon said:

No chance at a pick.

Trying to turn around, keep your feet and track a ball at that speed is just not a realistic option.

You can do it if you're moving at 90% of top speed and under control, but selling out to a desperate sprint to try and close a gap on a guy at top speed just isn't in the cards.

I literally saw it happen today for another team. Didn’t make the pick, but he was in position to. Totally blanking on the db, but the player is better than average. If I remember, I’ll let you know.

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

As others have said, we attempted a few today. But your point is still Valid.

 

I think part of it is lack of confidence by JA In completing those. He’s still not accurate on the bombs, and I’m sure he knows it. I think the other part of it is we need more of a speedster out there with straight line speed— like how we had Robert Foster. Maybe Diggs can run those, but seems like his strength is intermediate stuff. 

Diggs can definitely run those routes, but his game is being able to run ALL the routes. He is brutal to defend against.

[Big Turk]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

 

The reason why he didn't turn around is because he was beaten so badly that he needed to run through him to try and get back in the play.

[MJS]

Many defenses have been playing to keep things in front of them against the Bills. They saw how effective the Bills were in the first few games and adjusted. Not having John Brown really hurts the deep attack too.

 

And I don't care. Why is it a requirement to have deep balls every game? Sometimes it's best to just take the short and intermediate stuff the defense gives you.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I literally saw it happen today for another team. Didn’t make the pick, but he was in position to. Totally blanking on the db, but the player is better than average. If I remember, I’ll let you know.

I'd be happy to look at it but you already said he didn't make the pick. Which is what I was saying; you just can't pull down interceptions trying to turn around at that speed.

You can throw yourself into the trajectory of the throw with your hands waving around near the ball, but you're not going to pull it in.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

The reason why he didn't turn around is because he was beaten so badly that he needed to run through him to try and get back in the play.

I disagree. But I think you know that by now! This is not a guy who was outrun by diggs:

.

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

I'd be happy to look at it but you already said he didn't make the pick. Which is what I was saying; you just can't pull down interceptions trying to turn around at that speed.

You can throw yourself into the trajectory of the throw with your hands waving around near the ball, but you're not going to pull it in.

He dropped it, but an int really was a viable outcome. Dbs play db for a reason. That’s all i am saying.

Edited November 30, 2020 by dave mcbride

[Norcalbillsfan]

Maybe its just me but I feel like Allen hasn't been on when it comes to his deep bombs this year. Today that pass to diggs wasn't amazing but it drew the big foul. And the davis catch didn't seem like a bomb and it definitely wasn't in stride. I might be nitpicking but I think we all want to see that famous cannon drop a 50 yard dime in stride a little more often.

[Process]

No brown, no run game, no TE makes it easy for teams to take away the deep ball.

 

Early in the year teams weren't prepared for the bills to be a passing juggernaut. 

 

We are desperate for more playmakers on offense and I think McBeane knows this and will do something about it this off-season. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Process

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

You play to what defenses give you. 
 

it took the Bills until the 3rd to get passes to Diggs 

 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

1 minute ago, Process said:

No brown, no run game, no TE makes it easy for teams to take away the deep ball.

 

Early in the year teams weren't prepared for the bills to be a passing juggernaut. 

 

The Bills are the only good offense in the league without an above average receiving threat at TE or RB.  One or both ought to be addressed in the offseason.

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Dbs play db for a reason. That’s all i am saying.

Best athletes on the field, but still only human.

That guy was beat when Diggs broke his cushion and he made the best possible play he could possibly make just getting back into it.

Frankly, I thought it was such a great play that I didn't really like the flag.

But now we're just pickin nits aren't we? - )

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Never mind the deep ball.  How many completions did we have which traveled more than 10 yards past the LOS?  I think just 3, all to Davis (one thrown by Beasley).  I really wish we'd make a concerted effort to use the middle of the field in the passing game. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

Be a team player, become a chiefs fan

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He was covered and if the DB had turned around it may well have been a pick. It wasn’t a terrible throw, but a better db can make that a pick. 

 

 

He was going past the DB but Allen had slightly underthrown it. Five yards further and Diggs catches it running away.

 

And in any case, it was a success. And you can bet is scared the bejeesus out of the Chargers D.

 

3 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

The Bills are the only good offense in the league without an above average receiving threat at TE or RB.  One or both ought to be addressed in the offseason.

 

 

Singletary and Moss are both excellent receiving threats. Yeldon too, for that matter.

 

We just don't throw to them much, probably because our WRs are so excellent.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Thurman#1

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

Best athletes on the field, but still only human.

That guy was beat when Diggs broke his cushion and he made the best possible play he could possibly make just getting back into it.

Frankly, I thought it was such a great play that I didn't really like the flag.

But now we're just pickin nits aren't we? - )

 

 

It simply was NOT PI.

If it was against the Bills we would be furious.

[JoshAllin]

Seems like every time theres an ounce of wind swirling for the game coaches change gameplan away from it

Edited November 30, 2020 by motorj

[Bubba Gump]

Did OP not watch the game and see the bomb to Davis? Or the attempt to Diggs that resulted in a PI that led to the first TD. Wtf is wrong with some people? Nitpick anything you can after a win. TBD needs a therapy thread.

[Apocalypse Nuts]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

KC has Travis Kelce terrorizing everyone underneath/intermediate, which opens up deep shots to Tyreek Hill.  
 

Up until today, recent defenses have actually been taking away the explosive plays from KC as well.  
 

Brown has been hobbled/out ever since those first 4 games.  
 

Diggs doesn’t have Thielen out there right now with no Brown... until Davis starts snatching souls week to week, we’re going to have to be more methodical UNLESS we can force teams to fear our run game.  
 

Getting Brown back changes all that, and it’s also why we sure as **** better get a second speed WR on the roster next year.  

 

^^^^  this ^^^^

excellent analysis

Edited November 30, 2020 by Distorted One

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

do you watch the games?

[Not at the table Karlos]

Since Allen’s left shoulder injury his mechanics have been off and his touch regressed. The touch was a big reason the deep passes were getting completed. Against the Chargers the line rarely held up long enough to throw deep. 

[Buffalo Boy]

    Said this last month before McKenzie caught the TD. McKenzie needs to be used as a deep target running fly routes a few times a game. 
    With Diggs on the team we have a great extra coach who can work with him on getting off the line and double moves.

     He is our fastest WR and could take the top off most Defenses.

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Feels like since weeks 1-4 we stopped attempting deep balls. I know John Brown hasn't been healthy but we have a fully capable WR in Diggs who is arguably the best route runner in the NFL. Most of his TD's came from deep balls in Minnesota. 

 

We aren't even attempting any recently. is this by design? We do decent with moving the ball downfield but that big play ability is non-existent on our offense. It can't be opposing defenses because I watch KC beat 2 deep safety's every week with deep balls. 

Somebody wanna tell this kid this ain’t Madden? 🤦‍♂️

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

As others have said, we attempted a few today. But your point is still Valid.

 

I think part of it is lack of confidence by JA In completing those. He’s still not accurate on the bombs, and I’m sure he knows it. I think the other part of it is we need more of a speedster out there with straight line speed— like how we had Robert Foster. Maybe Diggs can run those, but seems like his strength is intermediate stuff. 

I think McKenzie can run if they really want him to be that downfield threat.  But I think it is more than just having a speedy WR