Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McDermott specifically said it would be a "week to week" decision going forward.  I'm not sure that jibes with the definite statement "Morse will start the final 6 games"

 

Not that I know anything, but I thought Feliciano did a very good job at center against NE and last week.  I also thought he made some blocks that Morse wouldn't have, particularly on Josh's TD run.  I think they may be having to think hard about what they do on the OL. 

 

The question might be even if they believe Feliciano is slightly better at center than Morse, an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Feliciano-Williams may be better than an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Feliciano-Winters-Williams

I shouldn’t have been so definite with my Morse statement, that’s fair. I guess what is was trying to highlight was a lot of what McDermott said was fairly normal and most of it was taken out of context. I mean he seriously spent 15-30 seconds in total responding to all 3 questions. 
 

Yeah it comes down to which OL has the comparative advantage over the other... which comes down to who is better at each spot. 
 

I would think that even if Feliciano has a slight edge on Morse at C, Feliciano would have a substantial edge on Winters/Boetteger/Ford at either of the G spots. 
 

Which then you’d have to determine whether the slight decline at C is worth the significant upgrade at the G spots by inserting Feliciano there. 
 

You nailed it spot on at the end there. I don’t think Morse is outside of our top 5 o-lineman, but it seems to me they were figuring out which G combination works best... coupled with Morse being healthy but the line having some success last week it just seems like a 1 week thing. 
 

I’m not saying I’ll be right at the end of the day, but it seems to me a lot was made out of such little that McDermott provided. The OP was misleading and made things seem so much worse than the way it unfolded in the press conference. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by JGMcD2

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, delirious said:

Hard for me to believe that Feliciano would not be an upgrade over Winters, and that having Morse and Feliciano both on the line would be a NET upgrade over the current rotation. 

 

I better see that same attitude when Ford can come back, because I think Boettger has been playing at or above Ford's level at LG.  JMO

I just want to see Morse, Mongo and Williams pile driving the right side. If Ike can hold his own then leave him by Dawkins. I have very little faith in Winters or Ford.

[Matt_In_NH]

Maybe coaches sending a message.  Maybe giving his head another week or two. There are a bunch of guys they can rotate inside without seeing a big performance difference.  Gilmore was a healthy scratch in NE.  Does not mean he is done.  

[Bubba Gump]

2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I watched the press conference live. After the first reporter asked, *two more reporters* asked follow-up questions on the same topic because it was clearly major news.

Boy, this thread is proof that we live in a post-truth culture!

Why would he lie and put himself in a more controversial position? Your take makes no sense...

 

You've obviously never listened to a Bill Belichick press conference. Most honest guy I've ever heard. 🙄

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

I shouldn’t have been so definite with my Morse statement, that’s fair. I guess what is was trying to highlight was a lot of what McDermott said was fairly normal and most of it was taken out of context. I mean he seriously spent 15-30 seconds in total responding to all 3 questions. 
 

Yeah it comes down to which OL has the comparative advantage over the other... which comes down to who is better at each spot. 
 

I would think that even if Feliciano has a slight edge on Morse at C, Feliciano would have a substantial edge on Winters/Boetteger/Ford at either of the G spots. 
 

Which then you’d have to determine whether the slight decline at C is worth the significant upgrade at the G spots by inserting Feliciano there. 
 

You nailed it spot on at the end there. I don’t think Morse is outside of our top 5 o-lineman, but it seems to me they were figuring out which G combination works best... coupled with Morse being healthy but the line having some success last week it just seems like a 1 week thing. 
 

I’m not saying I’ll be right at the end of the day, but it seems to me a lot was made out of such little that McDermott provided. The OP was misleading and made things seem so much worse than the way it unfolded in the press conference. 

 

Actually I just remembered something and had a thought.  Feliciano was asked about playing center all game after NE just coming back from his pec.  He said "I'm OK" (not I'm great, just OK, which is a little un-Mongo).  He said his pec isn't 100% yet, it's 97% or so.  Then he said that playing center all game was easier for him because he has help on both sides.  So that could be a factor too, and how Feliciano is doing could be the week-to-week thing - maybe they want him on the field, but wanted to give him a couple more weeks to "get right" before moving him back to guard.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

winters is good for atleast one drive killing holding per game. he should be a second stringer on every roster in the nfl.

....and Peterman should never have played one down or Bozo being allowed to punt for the last 2+ years....sometimes coaches get very stubborn admitting they were wrong. Look how long it took to get rid of DiMarco? I consider both Winters & Ford officially backups with Bates. Ride Ike awhile and see how it works? 

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually I just remembered something and had a thought.  Feliciano was asked about playing center all game after NE just coming back from his pec.  He said "I'm OK" (not I'm great, just OK, which is a little un-Mongo).  He said his pec isn't 100% yet, it's 97% or so.  Then he said that playing center all game was easier for him because he has help on both sides.  So that could be a factor too, and how Feliciano is doing could be the week-to-week thing - maybe they want him on the field, but wanted to give him a couple more weeks to "get right" before moving him back to guard.

Yes, very good point!

 

This kind of goes into your post hitting the media hard last week. IMO they do a very poor job of asking the right questions and connecting the dots between something like Feliciano’s comments against NE and how it may impact Morse... maybe if Joe B goes “Sean, Feliciano said after NE it was easier for him to play center right now because his pec isn’t 100%. Did his injury factor into the decision to keep him there for now? Do you have any intention of moving him back to G when he’s more comfortable?” And then boom Sean opens up a little more on the topic because it’s interconnected. 
 

Sean, like Belichick, will give you some very good answers... if you ask some very good question. It’s a reward thing... when you watch Sean he reacts to certain things more positively than others. 
 

For example the “football decision” comment that is in the title of this thread... a reporter asked specifically, with no context of what he meant by “football decision” asked McDermott (paraphrasing) “Did Morse do something or fail to do something off-field that caused him to not start, or was it a football decision?”

 

It was basically a yes or no question... either Sean says it was an off-field reason or it was a football decision. To Sean, football decision could mean absolutely anything in his mind. It could mean that Morse sucks, Feliciano is still playing hurt and is healthy but his hurt and healthy is less significant than Morse, it could mean he’s a football czar and makes football decisions! Sean just reused the term given to him... it’s a very common tactic in sports interviews... the reporter gave him an out when it came to specific details. McDermott just had to say “it was a football decision” and boom he gave an answer that doesn’t allow for follow up. 
 

The reporters want to blame the coach, which fine, he’s vague. But maybe the reporters should come prepared with well-phrased questions and not stumble over their thoughts as they try to come up with a question on the spot. The wording matters, the flow of the interview matters, the context matters. They seem to get lazy with it and in return get lazy answers that lead to ambiguous answers from McDermott... maybe that’s what they want so they can put their own spin on it? 

Edited November 17, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Doc]

And I wasn't so impressed with Feliciano this weekend.  Morse better be starting at C and Feliciano put at RG with Ford or Boettger at LG going forward.

[John from Riverside]

I totally get why Morse did not play this game

 

How many concussions is it so far:?

 

Perhaps McD's thinking......"if I sit him this week then this week and the bye week gives him extra time to heal from a concussion"

 

It almost worked

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

winters is good for atleast one drive killing holding per game. he should be a second stringer on every roster in the nfl.

 

His whiffs and holding on the drive before the last led to 3rd and 30 and Brown getting banged up.  

 

He sucks at football. 

 

We can't run the ball at all and this is not going to help us in December.  Someone better figure out how to get us an effective run game.  Run only 20 times fine....but we can't be averaging 2.2 ypc

[blacklabel]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

His defense is awful and we beat awful teams.  If you think being average is ok, then yes, he is not an issue.  He ain't winning anything in this league.

 

Well then why don't you enlighten us with the solution? Tear it all down and start all over again? Because you don't just swap out a single head coach in this league. A head coach gets the boot and usually his entire staff follows. 

 

The guy has intsalled a culture and changed the direction of this team after 17 years of futility where all they did was ride the coaching carousel every few years and blow up roster after roster. This dude gets hired and breaks the drought in his first season. Everyone knew 2018 was a mulligan, the "growing pains" season, if you will. A necessary evil to get to where they wanted to go, which was another playoff appearance on 2019.

 

He's also drafted an All-Pro (Tre), a cornerstone linebacker (Milano), and a left tackle who is playing very close to an All-Pro level this season.

 

He also had input on hiring Brandon Beane, who came in here and cleaned up a messy salary cap and dumped all sorts of bad contracts, made trades, signed quality free agents, reinforced a shaky OL, reinforced the WR group from one of the worst in the league to one of the best, oh and he found the all important franchise quarterback.

 

And that franchise quarterback has taken incredible steps forward, due in large part to his coaches who were...lemme see here, ah yes, those same coaches that were hired by Sean McDermott. 

 

This season, they lose several pieces on defense and then over half their starters are grinding through injuries. It happens. On the flip side, the offense has gone from struggling to put up 20 points a game to putting up 30 or more five times this year. 

 

On top of all that, Sean McDermott is a friggin' human being incapable of perfection and incapable of having all the answers, just like anyone else. And he's still learning, obviously. And what's great about him is he isn't a "set in his ways" type of coach, he's constantly working to better himself and will implement new methods if they benefit him or the team. But what he's done with this team in just over 2.5 seasons cannot be understated. This franchise spun their tires in the mud for 17 years until McDermott took over and finally got the thing moving forward. Team is 7-3, primed to win a division, playing with confidence and belief in themselves that I haven't seen since the 90s teams. They lose a game by two points on a last second fluke play, I mean, it happens. Sucks? Sure does. I choose to believe that game ended when Diggs caught the go-ahead TD, dang it. 

 

So what's the alternative? That's the thing people never seem to have in mind when they start doubting players and coaches. I'll stick with what they have right now. 

[Victory Formation]

Mitch Morse has been disappointing given his contract... but let me say this... Feliciano is a better guard than he is a center.. I think Buffalo should draft a road grading center and move on from Morse this offseason.. $11M/yr for simply a pass blocker doesn’t cut it.. Center is a very important position on the OL.. very, very important.. Need an elite player there to make the line work..

[boater]

OK.. Morse didn't start. But did he play?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, boater said:

OK.. Morse didn't start. But did he play?

 

No.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, boater said:

OK.. Morse didn't start. But did he play?

No. He did not. 
 

The combination of Dawkins-Boettger-Feliciano-Winters-Williams that started the game played 100% of the snaps. No other lineman actually made their way on to the field as an eligible receiver or anything like that. 

[John from Riverside]

Moving on from Morse (or a trade?) may not be that bad of an idea.......

 

The concussions are officially concerning to me......and I like Mongo better at guard....not only tht but if can get out of the huge contrace for Morse maybe we can fit Mongo and Williams in and not lose those guys who are actually playing well.

 

Personally?  I think we have a couple of good centers on this team with us right now that DONT include playing Mongo at center

[DCbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

 

No way to read this except they are disappointed in Morse. Pretty shocking development here.

Maybe McD is being extra cautious with Morse given his concussion history.  They played an NFC team before a bye week.  A perfect place in the schedule to give him extra time to heal.  

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Moving on from Morse (or a trade?) may not be that bad of an idea.......

 

The concussions are officially concerning to me......and I like Mongo better at guard....not only tht but if can get out of the huge contrace for Morse maybe we can fit Mongo and Williams in and not lose those guys who are actually playing well.

 

Personally?  I think we have a couple of good centers on this team with us right now that DONT include playing Mongo at center

Yeah dude... I like Bates... I think he is a talented kid.. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

Yeah dude... I like Bates... I think he is a talented kid.. 

I think Bates is hugely under rated......it honestly puzzles me that he doesnt get more burn as we did trade for him

[Doc]

I think Bates is the heir-apparent at C.  The Bills can get out of Morse's contract after the season and save $2M.

[Victory Formation]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I think Bates is hugely under rated......it honestly puzzles me that he doesnt get more burn as we did trade for him

Absolutely.. I guess strength was a concern coming out of college.. I can’t find anything wrong with him other than he went undrafted.. He looked pretty darn good to me.. looked like he belonged out there!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

winters is good for atleast one drive killing holding per game. he should be a second stringer on every roster in the nfl.

He is a second string on this team too.  He should be behind Ford and Feliciano but they were both hurt.  

[Green Lightning]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I watched the press conference. I believe they are protecting him for the stretch run and thought they had some momentum with the other group enough to get to the bye. That was the football decision.  He was dressed in case of injury to mongo. 

+1. Morse is needed for whatever stretch run we got. Wish he played 1 Technique.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I totally get why Morse did not play this game

How many concussions is it so far:?

Perhaps McD's thinking......"if I sit him this week then this week and the bye week gives him extra time to heal from a concussion"

 

It almost worked

 

FWIW, in Daboll's presser he said "they've played a couple of games together and that's the direction we decided to go with for this game.  That doesn't mean anything for this week or the week after that".  He said it was a decision to maintain continuity on the OL: "just have some continuity going with those guys, they've done a good job, and we'll see where we go from that". 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Agent 91]

5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Such a high level that it wouldn't be better to start Morse at center and Feliciano at guard? This is an indictment on Morse.

Morse to me has been weak at the point but very good in the pull game. Feliciano has been playing very nicely but I want him at either guard as you said. Its just a better fit.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

His defense is awful and we beat awful teams.  If you think being average is ok, then yes, he is not an issue.  He ain't winning anything in this league.

We are tied for the lead in most wins against teams with winning records.  You didn’t think before this post did you?

[RyanC883]

6 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Per McD, Morse was healthy and ready to go but his not playing was a "football decision," not a health issue. When asked, McD did not commit to Morse as the starter going forward. Said they felt the current group had "momentum" and that's why Morse didn't play.

 

No way to read this except they are disappointed in Morse. Pretty shocking development here.

 

if true, that is a terrible coaching decision, IMO.  Even if John is playing better at center cant Morse play Guard better than what we have now??

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

if true, that is a terrible coaching decision, IMO.  Even if John is playing better at center cant Morse play Guard better than what we have now??

He’s never even played the Guard position. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

10 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

Maybe McD is being extra cautious with Morse given his concussion history.  They played an NFC team before a bye week.  A perfect place in the schedule to give him extra time to heal.  

Why not just say we want to make sure he’s fully healthy before putting him on the field? They’ve said it before and it would end all discussion. He seemed to go out of his way to say it wasn’t injury related.

 

I really wanted Morse when we signed him but after going back and watching all-22 from last year I would be fine with moving on from him and getting someone that’s more physical. He’s a solid pass blocker but meh in run game

[colin]

13 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

winters is good for atleast one drive killing holding per game. he should be a second stringer on every roster in the nfl.

 

how could he be on every roster in the nfl?!?!??!!?  is this a league for ants!?!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Per McD, Morse was healthy and ready to go but his not playing was a "football decision," not a health issue. When asked, McD did not commit to Morse as the starter going forward. Said they felt the current group had "momentum" and that's why Morse didn't play.

 

No way to read this except they are disappointed in Morse. Pretty shocking development here.

 

I can see a reason for sitting him.  It's not like Feliciano was doing a really bad job.  

 

Via the eye test against the Cardinals, the Bills offensive line… wasn’t great. They never really are better than an average unit, but despite not being sacked, quarterback Josh Allen was certainly on the run a bit more in Week 10. The run game, as usual, was just never established.

 

Sacks typically are  not the fault of the center.  

[Boxcar]

15 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Per McD, Morse was healthy and ready to go but his not playing was a "football decision," not a health issue. When asked, McD did not commit to Morse as the starter going forward. Said they felt the current group had "momentum" and that's why Morse didn't play.

 

No way to read this except they are disappointed in Morse. Pretty shocking development here.

I read it like they are concerned with his health. I agree with the decision to sit Morse last game and give him an extra two weeks to recover. There's absolutely zero chance that McD thinks Morse isn't a critical player on the O-Line, and how much momentum could the "current group" have when it's a different set of guys almost every down, it seems? I have no idea why he chose to answer this way but Morse makes a lot of money and he's one of the most critical components of that line, plus he was obviously playing very well.

[MAJBobby]

15 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Ahh! McDermott said he was healthy and that was not a factor. Goodness

Yeah Coaches ALWAYS tell the truth lol

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

38 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yeah Coaches ALWAYS tell the truth lol

Lying here puts him in a tougher situation, so it makes no sense. Thad Brown agrees

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why not just say we want to make sure he’s fully healthy before putting him on the field? They’ve said it before and it would end all discussion. He seemed to go out of his way to say it wasn’t injury related.

 

I really wanted Morse when we signed him but after going back and watching all-22 from last year I would be fine with moving on from him and getting someone that’s more physical. He’s a solid pass blocker but meh in run game

 

I think that if he said that, it would lead to a lot more questions from the reporters.

[nucci]

well, it's a football team and football game so I guess it makes sense it was a football decision

[MAJBobby]

37 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Lying here puts him in a tougher situation, so it makes no sense. Thad Brown agrees

Football decision = didn't clear protocol fast enough to practice fully felt more comfortable with Feliciano in this spot.  After Bye Morse will be starting Center again.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Football decision = didn't clear protocol fast enough to practice fully felt more comfortable with Feliciano in this spot.  After Bye Morse will be starting Center again.

 

It will be nuts if Morse doesn't start after the bye.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The question might be even if they believe Feliciano is slightly better at center than Morse, an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Feliciano-Williams may be better than an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Feliciano-Winters-Williams

 

Think that is where I am Hap. I do think when McDermott talked yesterday what he meant about a football decision was be sensible, take your time and think about the final 7 games not just the one we played Sunday. However, that question absolutely looms large. I have felt since the middle of last season there was an argument that Feliciano is our best center and that he his pass protection issues show up less at center than when he plays at guard. But the guard situation is such that at this moment I think Morse at C and Feliciano at G is probably the best combo we have in those two spots.

 

Worth saying in all this McDermott and Beane come from a "center is king" culture in Carolina. It is a position that the guys they learned from have always really valued. It wouldn't be a complete shock if they keep the guy they think is the best center they have at center and if that is Feliciano could they even try Morse at guard?

 

Whatever they do I do think they need to try and settle on a 5. The chopping and changing inside is part of the run game struggle IMO. No cohesion or continuity in there.

[JohnNord]

16 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Per McD, Morse was healthy and ready to go but his not playing was a "football decision," not a health issue. When asked, McD did not commit to Morse as the starter going forward. Said they felt the current group had "momentum" and that's why Morse didn't play.

 

No way to read this except they are disappointed in Morse. Pretty shocking development here.

I like McDermott and am a lot higher on him as a HC than most.  I think he’s done a fantastic job turning the Bills around who were an absolute dumpster fire when he took over.  
 

But this situation is just bizarre.  I’m hoping there’s more to the story and that Morse was available on an emergency basis to be extra careful of his concussion situation.  There’s can’t be any way that they benched him based on his play.  He’s been easily their first or second best lineman