All those premium picks on defense...

[Mango]

DL: I think Hughes is losing a step and becoming a situational rotational player faster than anybody expected. Thinking the Lorax version at DE. Oliver is playing alone at the moment. Our DT rotation is meh. It’s Oliver and a bunch of number 3s. I’m not gonna run him out of town get. 
 

LB: Edmunds is the same or similar LB he’s been since he started. He’s a physiological freak who is playing out of position. I wasn’t on that band wagon the last year or two, but I am full on he needs to move outside as soon as somebody can play inside at an NFL level. 
 

Safeties: Poyer and Hyde are aging, but that’s not the excuse yet. At least not for the defense as a whole. DL and MLB are a liability at the moment safeties are creeping up to help out. Leaves our weak CB depth hung out to dry. 
 

CB: Similar to DL, it Tre and some reserves. We knew this was an issue for years now.

 

FO: Between our lackluster DL signings (and that’s a nice way of putting it nicer), Harry has been, meh, lack of LB depth, Edmunds lack of instinct at MLB, and CB depth, this defense is a unit the FO needs to take on the chin. Doesn’t mean they’re trash as scouts, GM’s, etc. just a bad job this offseason. Shaq and Philips are bigger loses than expected. We have sunken cost in guys that prevented us from keeping a Philips, Shaq, etc.  It’s biting us in the asphalt at the moment. I would move Edmunds outside, given Milanos injury history see if you can get him “cheap-ish”, hunt down a new MLB, and draft a CB AND DT/DL in the top 3 rounds. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Mango

[biggerdaddynj]

31 minutes ago, Tierlifer said:

 

We could use a Washington Wizard—I would be interested to see what a 6’8” Rui Hachimura could do on the D-Line, our guys sure didn’t play like they knew what they were doing.  Would be a fun Mr. Wizard episode!  😏 

[Tierlifer]

7 minutes ago, biggerdaddynj said:

We could use a Washington Wizard—I would be interested to see what a 6’8” Rui Hachimura could do on the D-Line, our guys sure didn’t play like they knew what they were doing.  Would be a fun Mr. Wizard episode!  😏 

You’re not wrong. That show ruled when I was younger. I wonder how often my parents rolled their eyes when I wanted to attempt those experiments that looked so easy on TV haha

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

DL: I think Hughes is losing a step and becoming a situational rotational player faster than anybody expected. Thinking the Lorax version at DE. Oliver is playing alone at the moment. Our DT rotation is meh. It’s Oliver and a bunch of number 3s. I’m not gonna run him out of town get. 
 

LB: Edmunds is the same or similar LB he’s been since he started. He’s a phonological freak who is playing out of position. I wasn’t on that band wagon the last year or two, but I am full on he needs to move outside as soon as somebody can play inside at an NFL level. 
 

Safeties: Poyer and Hyde are aging, but that’s not the excuse yet. At least not for the defense as a whole. DL and MLB are a liability at the moment safeties are creeping up to help out. Leaves our weak CB depth hung out to dry. 
 

CB: Similar to DL, it Tre and some reserves. We knew this was an issue for years now.

 

FO: Between our lackluster DL signings (and that’s a nice way of putting it nicer), Harry has been, meh, lack of LB depth, Edmunds lack of instinct at MLB, and CB depth, this defense is a unit the FO needs to take on the chin. Doesn’t mean they’re trash as scouts, GM’s, etc. just a bad job this offseason. Shaq and Philips are bigger loses than expected. We have sunken cost in guys that prevented us from keeping a Philips, Shaq, etc.  It’s biting us in the asphalt at the moment. I would move Edmunds outside, given Milanos injury history see if you can get him “cheap-ish”, hunt down a new MLB, and draft a CB AND DT/DL in the top 3 rounds. 

This is really well-said.  They need to own it and move forward.  Have not done a good enough job filling depth on defense and hitting on draft picks and FAs.  DJ Reader is out for the year but they couldn’t land him.  Darius Slay.  A few linebackers who can actually run.  They missed this offseason.

[BuffaloFan68]

40 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Very, very good point.  In addition, how many dumb penalties tonight between Offside and roughing the passer?  Unacceptable.

How about the off sides on our Offense when we weren’t even set yet?  

[In Summary]

Milano was greatly missed. Edmunds is a complimentary player. Oliver not making a difference.  

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, jkeerie said:

Don't forget.  In addition to missing Milano, Tre and Wallace, we're also missing Star.  Beane said that Star helps the line backers by tying up defenders allowing the MLB especially to make plays.  It's no wonder our front seven especially looks ordinary this year. That has then put more pressure on our secondary.

But ... but ... fan forums think Star sucks. How could they be wrong?. 😂

[Mango]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is really well-said.  They need to own it and move forward.  Have not done a good enough job filling depth on defense and hitting on draft picks and FAs.  DJ Reader is out for the year but they couldn’t land him.  Darius Slay.  A few linebackers who can actually run.  They missed this offseason.

Appreciate touching on missed solutions. I always nag on draft/FA complaints without them.

 

We have seen this FO do this with QB, OL, WR and course correct pretty well. So I’ll give them the benefit of the the doubt of the doubt here. I will say they can’t afford to keep whiffing on positional groups this way. If they don’t keep batting .1000 or close to it on the correcting, it could bite them in the ass quickly. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Oliver is a massive disappointment. He needs to put on more weight or something. I don't see Aaron Donald...not even close. 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Oliver should be a DE.  way too small at NT. 

 

Oliver is not and never will be a 4-3 DE.

1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Honestly, you know who's always pushed around? Friggin Harrison Phillips. You can literally watch 99 go backwards on every single play. 

That’s because he sucks. Fans like him and it still boggles my mind as to why. 

[Roundybout]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Oliver is not and never will be a 4-3 DE.

That’s because he sucks. Fans like him and it still boggles my mind as to why. 

 

A lot of hype around him was that he was a Kyle Williams clone, though I legit cannot remember a single highlight of his. 

 

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Klein was a complete waste of a signing. 
 

Butler has been disappointing to go along with just about everyone else on the defensive line..... I’ll echo what’s been said already. Looks like the wizard had a terrible offseason in addressing the depth on this defense. This team would be 2-3 right now, maybe 1-4 if not for Josh Allen’s improvement. 

 

You really do love it when we do poorly, don't you? 

[MAJBobby]

12 hours ago, whorlnut said:

...and this is what we get. Yeah, yeah, yeah...we are missing Tre and Milano. I get that. But Milano was a fifth rounder and Tre has been overall underwhelming this season. Either way...Edmunds looks completely terrible, Oliver is almost non-existent, and Epenesa looks completely lost. It’s beyond pathetic. There really isn’t an excuse with all the premium picks spent on making this a premium unit.

By all those Premium Picks you mean.....

 

4 total Premium picks (1-3 rounds) on Defense in three years

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by MAJBobby

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Our defense probably liked it better when we were playing trash QBs last season

remember when Tanny was a trash QB

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

remember when Tanny was a trash QB

Meh I never thought he was trash. He was average to decent but we would usually our defense was good enough to make him look worse than he was.

[NewEra]

I refrain from the boards after a loss due to extreme overreaction........

 

but Tremaine Edmunds was so bad yesterday that I’m starting to really dislike him.  If you see him on the screen, he’s likely making a mistake, overrunning the play, biting on a misdirection, hitting the wrong hole, following the FB on the goal line fake instead of Derrick Henry, being confused in coverage, getting touched an OL which effectively ends his play..... I could go on.  Definitely not a MLB yet, after 2.25 years.  
 

 

[JohnNord]

We all love Brandon  Beane who has made a lot of great moves as GM.  But when you look at the players he drafted - particularly on the defensive side of the ball, they aren’t looking so good.
 

The Bills preach “draft, develop, resign” and while this has worked for picks like White and Milano, the high to mid-round draft picks Beane has made are not making the difference you would expect.  I know that it takes time to develop but we’re 2 seasons in and the excuses are running out. You will notice that severa players on this list stood out last night in a defensive meltdown for the wrong reasons. 

 

Tremaine Edmunds - Round 1, Pick 16   2018

Yes he’s young and he has been injured this year, but his weaknesses haven’t seemed to change much since his rookie year.  Good coverage LB, but a major liability against the run.  Unfortunately he hasn’t made any strides in shedding blocks and has missed too many tackles. Not good enough for an MLB in this defense. Bills have a tough decision on his option at the end of the year. 

 

Harrison Phillips - Round 3, Pick 96  2018

He had shown promise last season but seems to be having a tough time coming back from ACL surgery.  Right now he’s just another guy on defense and maybe a below average DT since his return.
 

Tauron Johnson - Round 4, Pick 122  2018

Opposite of Edmunds - good run CB, a liability in the pass game.  He has been a major weakness this year and maybe THE biggest weakness. 

 

Ed Oliver - Round 1, Pick 8 2019

Oliver has shown flashes at times but seems to be invisible for long stretches.  So far he hasn’t been been as effective as fellow 2019 DL’s like Quinnen  Williams or Jeffrey Simmons have been.   Out of all the picks on the list, I feel he has the most upside.  Still you’d like to see him do more in year 2.

 

AJ Epinesa - Round 2, Pick 54

Very very early to make a call on this pick, but so far  there hasn’t been anything that stands out.  Also the Offside penalty was a killer.
 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I think the offensive picks have been pretty good.  But it seems like a lot of the struggles can be attributed to the lack of development of draft picks who are called upon for big roles. 

 

 

[Brennan Huff]

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Is Beane still a wizard?

Today he is the worst GM in the history of the NFL. 

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Klein was a complete waste of a signing. 
 

Butler has been disappointing to go along with just about everyone else on the defensive line..... I’ll echo what’s been said already. Looks like the wizard had a terrible offseason in addressing the depth on this defense. This team would be 2-3 right now, maybe 1-4 if not for Josh Allen’s improvement. 

 

It would be great if Beane could bring himself to sign a FA from anywhere besides Carolina. It's not like the Panthers have been a perennial powerhouse.

 

Wasnt thrilled with replacing Shaq and Phillips with Butler and Addison when it happened. Even less thrilled now.

[gobills404]

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

Is it the guy getting the players or the guys developing the players? Also Ed has outperformed Quinnen Williams. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[Bing Bong]

12 hours ago, bills6969 said:

I’m more disappointed in the FA signings— Addison, Jefferson, Butler.  These guys have done diddly- poo.  We have 0 pass rush.  One of these guys was supposed to replace the production of Shaw Lawson. Lol.

I like Addison alright. Agree about the others

[clayboy54]

5 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

Today he is the worst GM in the history of the NFL. 

I think John Idzik is available.

[Brennan Huff]

Just now, clayboy54 said:

I think John Idzik is available.

Well someone give him a call so we can get that clown out of here 

[Teddy KGB]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It would be great if Beane could bring himself to sign a FA from anywhere besides Carolina

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I hated the Carolina connection signings outside of Butler and Williams.... I didn’t realize Klein played for Carolina too. What an awful signing. Norman is half the player he used to be and Addison is showing the same signs as he did last year. 
 

It’s a bit of lazy FA scouting. 

 

I'll give Beane credit on the Williams signing.

 

And I give a pass to Norman. No one expected him to be our #1 CB, and he looked like he could be a decent #2. I'll still hold out hope for him.

 

But yeah, time to expand the horizons.

[marky]

Titans had over two weeks to prepare. The Bills were the road team with 5 starters not playing because they did not want to get sick. Titan's facilities were closed down due to a biohazard on Sunday, and the Bills didn't know if they were going to play the game.

Crooked from the start. This game shouldn't have been played. How do you allow crowds at the stadium when it was just closed down? That officiating was awful.

 

I hope the Bills don't get sick. They bailed out the league only to get steamrolled. If the Bills get sick, I bet the league won't be as kind to them as they were to Typhoid Tennessee. They should have not played, and contested the forfeit forever.

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Frazier may get fired if this keeps up a few more games 

 

That wouldn't be very smart.  Frazier's defenses have kept this team competitive the past couple of seasons.  He hasn't forgotten how to coach.  It's the personnel that's the problem.

[uticaclub]

11 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

That's the big difference.

Plus: no Star, no Lorax, no Shaq, no Jordan Phillips. It shows.

Only Star was unexpected. Lorax retirement was expected and Shaq & Jordan could have been retained with the money they spent on other defensive free agents that haven’t performed 

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Is it the guy getting the players or the guys developing the players? Also Ed has outperformed Quinnen Williams. 

They are comparable, but I think Williams has made more of a difference so far

[uticaclub]

5 minutes ago, beavis said:

Titans had over two weeks to prepare. The Bills were the road team with 5 starters not playing because they did not want to get sick. Titan's facilities were closed down due to a biohazard on Sunday, and the Bills didn't know if they were going to play the game.

Crooked from the start. This game shouldn't have been played. How do you allow crowds at the stadium when it was just closed down? That officiating was awful.

 

I hope the Bills don't get sick. They bailed out the league only to get steamrolled. If the Bills get sick, I bet the league won't be as kind to them as they were to Typhoid Tennessee. They should have not played, and contested the forfeit forever.

Titans had a lot more starters and players out then the Bills. The players that opted in, knew this was a possibility going into the season. No matter what the circumstances a team with championship aspirations rarely play like the Bills did yesterday 

[97bills]

12 hours ago, Process said:

Oliver and edmunds are huge busts. 

 

Edmunds is an atrocious football player and hopefully this is the last year he starts for the bills. 

 

Oliver is probably fine as a starter when surrounded by good players on the line but considering where he was drafted, he's a bust. 

 

We need 4 new starters in the front 7. 

I don’t no why all the sad face this is true. This is Edmunds 3 year and he looks lost dude is a bust. I don’t even think moving him would help he NEVER makes a TFL or a game changing play. Hell his 8 out of 10 not even in the right place 

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

and Edmunds is just not good. I’d let him walk and not pick up the option. Need a Luke Kuechly type, Edmunds does not have the body type nor aggressiveness to play the position in the nfl . 

 

Well that because McDermott isn't utilizing his strengths.  Edmunds speed, range and athleticism is being wasted at middle.  It has been discussed ad nauseam on here.  It was true then and it's true now.

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

They are comparable, but I think Williams has made more of a difference so far

I strongly disagree with that.

[Big Turk]

19 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

We all love Brandon  Beane who has made a lot of great moves as GM.  But when you look at the players he drafted - particularly on the defensive side of the ball, they aren’t looking so good.
 

The Bills preach “draft, develop, resign” and while this has worked for picks like White and Milano, the high to mid-round draft picks Beane has made are not making the difference you would expect.  I know that it takes time to develop but we’re 2 seasons in and the excuses are running out. You will notice that severa players on this list stood out last night in a defensive meltdown for the wrong reasons. 

 

Tremaine Edmunds - Round 1, Pick 16   2018

Yes he’s young and he has been injured this year, but his weaknesses haven’t seemed to change much since his rookie year.  Good coverage LB, but a major liability against the run.  Unfortunately he hasn’t made any strides in shedding blocks and has missed too many tackles. Not good enough for an MLB in this defense. Bills have a tough decision on his option at the end of the year. 

 

Harrison Phillips - Round 3, Pick 96  2018

He had shown promise last season but seems to be having a tough time coming back from ACL surgery.  Right now he’s just another guy on defense and maybe a below average DT since his return.
 

Tauron Johnson - Round 4, Pick 122  2018

Opposite of Edmunds - good run CB, a liability in the pass game.  He has been a major weakness this year and maybe THE biggest weakness. 

 

Ed Oliver - Round 1, Pick 8 2019

Oliver has shown flashes at times but seems to be invisible for long stretches.  So far he hasn’t been been as effective as fellow 2019 DL’s like Quinnen  Williams or Jeffrey Simmons have been.   Out of all the picks on the list, I feel he has the most upside.  Still you’d like to see him do more in year 2.

 

AJ Epinesa - Round 2, Pick 54

Very very early to make a call on this pick, but so far  there hasn’t been anything that stands out.  Also the Offside penalty was a killer.
 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I think the offensive picks have been pretty good.  But it seems like a lot of the struggles can be attributed to the lack of development of draft picks who are called upon for big roles. 

 

 

 

You sure about Harrison Phillips? Seems like he has been a big part of the much improved run D the past 2 weeks. Jacobs averaged 3.2 YOC and Henry 3.0 YPC. Neither got to 60 yards.

[bouds]

Definitely lacking in impact, especially from the 1st rounders.

[Blank Stare]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

You sure about Harrison Phillips? Seems like he has been a big part of the much improved run D the past 2 weeks. Jacobs averaged 3.2 YOC and Henry 3.0 YPC. Neither got to 60 yards.

Agree. Aside from not setting the edge at all last night, the run defense has been cleaned up since the Rams ran wild. It’s the lack of pass rush and poor pass defense that’s killing us. Teams pass at will on us.
 

Edmunds has been a major liability for us thus far. Can’t shed blocks in the run game (probably not helped by his shoulder) and doesn’t appear to be in position with his length to effect the middle of the field in the pass game like he has the past few years. Seems like he’s always mixed up in the wash and slow to react. 

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

You sure about Harrison Phillips? Seems like he has been a big part of the much improved run D the past 2 weeks. Jacobs averaged 3.2 YOC and Henry 3.0 YPC. Neither got to 60 yards.

He helped at times for sure but I saw him getting pushed backward last night. 

1 minute ago, TheProcess said:

Agree. Aside from not setting the edge at all last night, the run defense has been cleaned up since the Rams ran wild. It’s the lack of pass rush and poor pass defense that’s killing us. Teams pass at will on us.
 

Edmunds has been a major liability for us thus far. Can’t shed blocks in the run game (probably not helped by his shoulder) and doesn’t appear to be in position with his length to effect the middle of the field in the pass game like he has the past few years. Seems like he’s always mixed up in the wash and slow to react. 

It’s the middle of the field that remains open.  Edmunds is a huge reason why as is Tauron Johnson.  The problem is that the Bills were counting on both this year so the depth at MLB and CB is poor.  

11 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I strongly disagree with that.

Like I said, Oliver has flashed at times - last week’s 4th down stop comes to mind.  But I think in 20+ games we have yet to see him really disrupt an entire offense the way other high draft picks have.

[buffalonian]

The defense was not good; but you also can't let the opposition start four drives inside of your own thirty yard line and expect to win. 

[JPicc2114]

Honestly, imo Edmunds is fine. He needs some help up front. The D-line has not been good. AJ Epeneza is having a terrible rookie season, and Ed Oliver is a huge undersized DT bust. Jerry Hughes is getting old and Trent Murphy is probably under league average for DE production. They have personnel issues that Beane needs to address NOW. Otherwise, they will be lucky to beat the Patriots for the division

Edited October 14, 2020 by JPicc2114

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Ed Oliver is a bust, and I'm glad people are finally waking up to it.