Do we make a trade or wing it?

[Matt_In_NH]

Deion Jones was just amazing in the game against the Bills a couple years ago.......

[Not at the table Karlos]

8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

So when Mack was last traded it was 2 First round picks right?

 

I'm ok...

I’m not. I would add more if we have to. But that trade was a few years ago and I doubt he has the same value just because of age. 
 

I haven’t looked since he signed his new deal but I think he has an out in his contract soon. 
 

edit- out is after next season when he’s 30

Edited October 12, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[Matt_In_NH]

All teams have holes, the Bills actually have some good depth minus a couple positions.  LB is one of them.  But I like Dodson over Klein, I think we will see more of him moving forward

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I've been in favor of adding a pass rusher.  I agree that looking for depth at LB or CB may be just as much of a need. I don't know the rosters of other teams that well to pick names. I'd start to pick over the corpses of franchises like Atlanta, San Francisco, Denver, or Cincinnati that have seen their seasons go to hell.

[fergie's ire]

7 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Not kicking the FG was totally boneheaded

If they'd kicked the extra point (instead of trying for two) and then kicked the field goal, it would've been a two score game.

[LabattBlue]

8 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

The Cardinals would be willing to trade Haason Reddick. The Bills were very enamored with him before we ultimately traded down and took Tre White.

 

He’s struggled but I trust McDermott to get something out of him. Would probably cost a 4 or a 5.

If this was the case, the Bills would sign every bust from the last 5 years, McD would turn all of them into good players, and the Bills would win multiple SB. 

 

McD appears to be a very good HC...not a miracle worker. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Back the Blue

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

If there's a trade made it might be for a LB or possibly CB, but likely with a team that has a fairly high level backup, someone who can and has started in the past, who can do the same here and step in to replace either Milano or Edwards if needed.  Likely not a starter unless it's with a team who's starter becomes a FA at seasons end.  We don't need a 3rd starting LB as we don't use three LB's very often, maybe just a better quality backup.  CB, lets see how Norman plays these next two games, if he continues like  last week, Wallace becomes a strong backup or nickel  and the remaining ones drop down a slot on the pecking order so need goes away there.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Not kicking the FG was totally boneheaded

 

 I don't hate it.  You get the first down and its game over, you can literally kneel it out. 

 

I don't think i run into a like... 11 man box though.  I know they'd been successful running it but it was a long 1, and seattle had a lot of guys there.  I might have also called a TO before/let the 2 minute warning run/tried a hard count.

[Bray Wyatt]

42 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

 I don't hate it.  You get the first down and its game over, you can literally kneel it out. 

 

I don't think i run into a like... 11 man box though.  I know they'd been successful running it but it was a long 1, and seattle had a lot of guys there.  I might have also called a TO before/let the 2 minute warning run/tried a hard count.

 

If the rb went to the right of the fb block he prob scores a td, instead he went left and got stuffed.

 

Wasnt a fan of the play call regardless, they had a sneak that was successful by a good margin earlier, not sure why they didnt do that again.

[klos63]

9 hours ago, Cubanmist said:

With Milano, arguably our best LB who is currently down, do we make a trade at the deadline? If so, then who should we target?  CB and TE would be the other need on this team.

 

As far as a pass rusher, I would love to get Mack back to Buffalo.

I'm sure the 4-1 Bears would be anxious to make such a move.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

44 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

If the rb went to the right of the fb block he prob scores a td, instead he went left and got stuffed.

 

Wasnt a fan of the play call regardless, they had a sneak that was successful by a good margin earlier, not sure why they didnt do that again.

 

The blocker did kind of get kicked into the hole up the middle, but the LB leverage was going to the right IIRC.  The RB can probably break it? The screenshot on twitter is very misleading as to what actually happened.

 

As for making trades - no.  You roll with what you have for depth.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by dneveu

[Niagara Dude]

10 hours ago, Cubanmist said:

With Milano, arguably our best LB who is currently down, do we make a trade at the deadline? If so, then who should we target?  CB and TE would be the other need on this team.

 

As far as a pass rusher, I would love to get Mack back to Buffalo.

Depends who becomes available and at what cost,  there could be teams trying to unload contracts because of reduced revenues.  If Beanne can find another defensive play maker for someone on our roster and maybe 3rd or 4th rounder i would do it. I would only consider giving up a first or second for a stud defensive player who is still under the age of 27-28.

[JTown]

10 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Wings are too expensive. Trades also, can be costly. Stay put for now.

 

I agree totally!  Growing up in WNY, you never paid more than .10 cents per wing. 🤣

[DCofNC]

For this D to genuinely be a championship level threat, you need more pass rush, a big upgrade at LB and probably another depth type corner that can step in and play on the outside with reasonable success.  CB 2 was a question to start the year, injuries have made it a hot mess.  If a decent LB is available, I’d go for it.  I doubt you are getting massive impact players, but LB is a need.  Klein is what I thought he was, and that’s not good.   

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

We’re not trading for Mack with the current overpaid contract that Chicago gave him. He would have to take massive pay cut if traded to here. 

Chicago is 4-1 and in the midst of a playoff run.  Why would they consider trading him?

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, Cubanmist said:

With Milano, arguably our best LB who is currently down, do we make a trade at the deadline? If so, then who should we target?  CB and TE would be the other need on this team.

 

As far as a pass rusher, I would love to get Mack back to Buffalo.

I fully expect the Bills to call around the NFL and ask about players.  It was rumored that they did this last year around the deadline and tried to get Diggs.  So if there’s a player that would fit their scheme and would be available for a reasonable value, I think they would make a move.

[Nextmanup]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Minnesota's season just exploded tonight.  

 

There anyone on that defense worth calling them back about?

 

Atlanta?  

 

 

I had a similar thought. Great game.  Watched the whole thing; Vikings should have won, probably, but they didn't, and now their season is pretty much done.

 

Maybe they would be willing to deal.

 

 

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

11 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Not kicking the FG was totally boneheaded

Hindsight, but it was totally the right call to go for the win.  

Just pick up 1/2 yard on 4th down and win - which is easier than stopping Seattle from picking up a PAT.

Or stop Seattle from driving 95 yards to win - which is easier than stopping Seattle from driving 75 yards for a TD.

Perhaps I would scrutinize the decision to run right instead of left, but not the decision to go for fourth down.

 

[chris heff]

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It is Deion Jones not Lewis.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/deion-jones-19001/

YEAR		AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING	ROSTER	OPTION	CAP HIT	DEAD CAP	YEARLY CASH
2019		24	$1,950,000	$2,576,482	$500,000	-	$5,026,482	$19,176,482	$13,497,930 ($13,497,930)
2020		25	$5,850,000	$2,200,000	$520,000	$1,750,000	$10,320,000	$21,650,000	$13,370,000 ($26,867,930)
2021		26	$8,200,000	$2,200,000	$480,000	$1,750,000	$12,630,000	$11,850,000	$8,680,000 ($35,547,930)
POTENTIAL OUT: 2022, 3 YR, $35,547,930; $7,900,000 DEAD CAP
2022		27	$9,640,000	$2,200,000	$500,000	$1,750,000	$14,090,000	$7,900,000	$10,140,000 ($45,687,930)
2023		28	$12,000,000	$2,200,000	$430,000	$1,750,000	$16,380,000	$3,950,000	$12,430,000 ($58,117,930)

 

 

 

It is possible a team looking to do a rebuild and when discarding a high priced QB may also get rid of other players to make room to absorb the hit so Lewis is possible but it will be very hard for Atlanta to do that with Dead Cap and hard for Bills to absorb salary especially next year.

 

 

Who’s going to make trade decisions for Atlanta, Arthur Blank? Player personnel guy or interim HC? Both of which will probably be gone.

[appoo]

Linebacker isn't the problem. The pass rush is. Wish I had some next gen stats for the Raiders game, because I thought D was getting to Carr a lot quicker in the 2nd half, and that coincided with the Raiders offense slowing down. Exact opposite of the first when Carr had time to pick the zone apart.  

 

I mean zones aren't designed to defend 5+ seconds of Playing time. In the NFL, WRs and RBs are 50 yards from where they started in that time.

 

This is why I wish the Bills were aggreessive in going after Clowney and ngakoue 

[appoo]

You want a semi-realistic fantasy trade? 

 

JJ Watt. He has a 15.5M cap hit with no dead cap penalty (which makes it a lot more appealing to the Texans). 

 

The Bills would either trade (but likely cut) Trent Murphy, saving saving about 8M in Cap space, add that to the 4.5M in cap, get the Texans to convert 3M of his salary to a salary bonus, send them a 21 1st, and a 22 2nd, and  the Bills would have a stud DE, who they are free to extend or cut in 21 with no dead cap penalties. 

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Falcons Tak McKinley is someone I'd look at.  Atlanta declined his 5th year option and he's been battling a nagging groin injury.  They'd probably give him up for next to nothing.  Bring him in, let him heal up and learn the system for a couple of weeks, and then use the rest of the season as an extended audition. Could be a nice situational pass rusher down the stretch.

I'd be down with this.

[appoo]

Texans badly need to clean house on their roster. and they should be looking to move everyone but Watson and Tunsil

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Falcons Tak McKinley is someone I'd look at.  Atlanta declined his 5th year option and he's been battling a nagging groin injury.  They'd probably give him up for next to nothing.  Bring him in, let him heal up and learn the system for a couple of weeks, and then use the rest of the season as an extended audition. Could be a nice situational pass rusher down the stretch.

 

Problem is that you need to cut someone from the 54 to get him, and I'd rather keep Trent Murphy 

[LABILLBACKER]

I've never been thrilled having Edmunds the Mike. Stick him outside and give Minnesota a 2nd for Eric Kendricks. 

[Playoffs?]

Can Duke play LB??

[appoo]

20 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I've never been thrilled having Edmunds the Mike. Stick him outside and give Minnesota a 2nd for Eric Kendricks. 

 

We don't really play an OLB. Base D is a 4-2-5, and the two backers are hybrids who have run support, blitz and coverage responsibilities.   Hence both Milano and Edmunds both being plus athletes. The difference is that Milano is a bit more reactive than Edmunds right now, though Edmunds gets way more criticism than he deserves.

 

If you really want to get rid of Edmunds, while keeping McDermott as coach, then you're going to have to draft Micah Parsons or something. Not a lot of backers who can play that position in this defense. 

[oldmanfan]

I want to see what Phillips does.

[John from Riverside]

I would like to see a pass rusher of some sort......someone that consistantly gets to the QB......you know that is gonna be a draft priority next year

[BullBuchanan]

We could go after Yannick Ngakoue again, subletting the rental Minny got earlier this year.

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Deion Lewis In Atlanta is Probably the best cover LB in football and would be an upgrade over Milano. Doubt they trade him. 
 

I just don’t see the Bills trading for anyone, the biggest wow, would be a FA signing for someone still out there. 

 

It makes a lot of sense on paper, but I can’t see whoever is calling in the shots in Atlanta making big roster moves as an interim.  From a coaching standpoint, Morris is going to eat the to win as many games as possible to either win the Atlanta job or end up as a HC or DC elsewhere.  Trading away one of the best players on defense doesn’t help him win now.  

 

There were also people clamoring for the Bills to trade for Myles Jack.  I can’t see Jacksonville trading him for the same reasons.  They need to win now

1 hour ago, appoo said:

You want a semi-realistic fantasy trade? 

 

JJ Watt. He has a 15.5M cap hit with no dead cap penalty (which makes it a lot more appealing to the Texans). 

 

The Bills would either trade (but likely cut) Trent Murphy, saving saving about 8M in Cap space, add that to the 4.5M in cap, get the Texans to convert 3M of his salary to a salary bonus, send them a 21 1st, and a 22 2nd, and  the Bills would have a stud DE, who they are free to extend or cut in 21 with no dead cap penalties. 

Do you honestly see an interim GM trading  a captain and one of the most-respected members on the Texans to benefit the franchise in the future, when they might not be employed in Houston 4 months from now?

 

Maybe the new GM makes this move but not the lame duck.

Edited October 12, 2020 by JohnNord

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

You want a semi-realistic fantasy trade? 

 

JJ Watt. He has a 15.5M cap hit with no dead cap penalty (which makes it a lot more appealing to the Texans). 

 

The Bills would either trade (but likely cut) Trent Murphy, saving saving about 8M in Cap space, add that to the 4.5M in cap, get the Texans to convert 3M of his salary to a salary bonus, send them a 21 1st, and a 22 2nd, and  the Bills would have a stud DE, who they are free to extend or cut in 21 with no dead cap penalties. 

I cannot envision anybody in their right mind giving up a first for Watt with his injury history.  I’m not going to jump into the numbers right now, but he’s going to be cut as soon as they can afford the dead cap hit, he’s a has been and hasn’t been in some time. EDIT: contract is not guaranteed so it’s better for an acquiring team, cap hit still there for Houston.

 

He’s been healthy 1 year of his 6 year extension, just not worth it.  I’m a little surprised they didn’t cut him this year, but probably delusions had O’Brien thinking he was making a championship run and Watt was a big part of it.  He won’t be on that team next year.

Edited October 12, 2020 by DCofNC

[appoo]

Just now, DCofNC said:

I cannot envision anybody in their right mind giving up a first for Watt with his injury history.  I’m not going to jump into the numbers right now, but he’s going to be cut as soon as they can afford the dead cap hit, he’s a has been and hasn’t been in some time. 

 

That's now. He doesn't have a dead cap hit this year or next year. The final 2 years of his contract. 

 

Let me offer a rebuttal to your main point though.

 

While I agree he's had some recent injury problems, when he's been healthy, he was elite in 2018, and elite in 2019 week 1 - 8, prior to tearing his pectoral (which is more of a freak injujry, and not at all related to his historical back injuries)

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-the-nfls-top-25-edge-defenders-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season

 

And he's been really good THIS year as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DCofNC]

3 minutes ago, appoo said:

 

That's now. He doesn't have a dead cap hit this year or next year. The final 2 years of his contract. 

 

Let me offer a rebuttal to your main point though.

 

While I agree he's had some recent injury problems, when he's been healthy, he was elite in 2018, and elite in 2019 week 1 - 8, prior to tearing his pectoral (which is more of a freak injujry, and not at all related to his historical back injuries)

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-the-nfls-top-25-edge-defenders-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season

 

And he's been really good THIS year as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

My rebuttal would be simply an age check, and to say I’m not giving up a first round pick for anybody over 30 unless it’s a QB and one without an injury history.  He’s been an injury waiting to happen and a lot of the pressure he has generated in his career actually came from lining up inside, working over the slower guards.  He was a FORCE, when healthy, but his 2 sacks this year don’t get me super excited and honestly he hasn’t been the game changer since 2016.  He was completely unblockable for a couple years, but he’s not that guy anymore. 

[thronethinker]

No one is trading this season. Too many uncertainties. 

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, thronethinker said:

No one is trading this season. Too many uncertainties. 

 

I could see a team completely out of contention making a trade

[thronethinker]

8 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I could see a team completely out of contention making a trade

Ya, but teams in contention are not going to offer up trades when no one knows if season will end. 

[frostbitmic]

Maybe the Saints would trade the legend of Kiko to us

[LB48]

Forget Mack!  Trade a #2or #3 for an EXCELLENT line backer and let's close the deal!

[Turk71]

11 minutes ago, LB48 said:

Forget Mack!  Trade a #2or #3 for an EXCELLENT line backer and let's close the deal!

If the Bills make a trade, a lb and a cb are what I would be looking for. 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, appoo said:

You want a semi-realistic fantasy trade? 

 

JJ Watt. He has a 15.5M cap hit with no dead cap penalty (which makes it a lot more appealing to the Texans). 

 

The Bills would either trade (but likely cut) Trent Murphy, saving saving about 8M in Cap space, add that to the 4.5M in cap, get the Texans to convert 3M of his salary to a salary bonus, send them a 21 1st, and a 22 2nd, and  the Bills would have a stud DE, who they are free to extend or cut in 21 with no dead cap penalties. 

 

 

So his $15.5M cap hit would put us about $12M over the cap. Cutting Murphy would save us $6.4M. That means we would only have to cut two to four guys to fit under the cap. It's a bit more complex than that because each has already been paid for 5 games and has 11 left, but ...

 

Can't happen. Cap problems.

 

Worth remembering that next year we have $2.5M left in cap space, and Watt next year will cost $17.5M in salary, so we go from $2.5 over (already have to cut someone just to fit our drafted rookies) to $15M under the cap. So we'd have to make major cuts, perhaps of Watt himself. Yeah, doesn't make sense.

 

Really doesn't make sense to make a trade for anyone who'd cost much more than minimum right now. 

 

To get better next year, they'll basically need draft picks to bring in affordable guys. Can't see them trading away any high picks anytime soon.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Thurman#1