Kyler Murray ran the ball 13 times, only got hit once

[Penfield45]

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

[Warcodered]

Well he's not very big it's easy to miss him.

[billsbackto81]

27 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

Curious to see what the responses will be. One is 6'3" 230lbs and the other is 5'3" 130lbs🤣 One runs like a cheetah and the other runs like, well a Buffalo.

[Rc2catch]

To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

[Ecmic82]

Man, watching Murray run is like watching James Harden drive to the basket. Not a knock, because it's hacking the system to get results, and that's all that matters. But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting... to see him sliding into defenders' knees. But he's short and baseball-trained, so I'd blame him if he didn't do it. Also, the vast majority of Murray's runs were scrambles.

 

Allen's issue on Sunday was most of his runs were designed options. Just my opinion, but it's super hard to justify a slide on an option play. Like, just don't run it at all if protecting the quarterback is a primary concern. There were a few designed runs Sunday where Allen should have slid though. The reverse field stiff-arm comes to mind. The knock-out against the Patriots is an all-time obvious one too. But to me alot of it comes down to design - scrambles are easier to justify slides, and I'd rather see plays designed to take advantage of Allen's scrambling ability (like clearing sides or something) as opposed to designed run plays where you're going to have to fight through a tackle or two to justify the call. But I'm a novice at that stuff so I don't know.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Ecmic82

[Locomark]

Tyler Murray has a Doug Flutie build. He only needs to take 1 shot and he is out for the count..... I agree Josh shouldn’t be taking 10 shots a game but you have Newton running straight at people at age 30 so there are those few physical people who have that ability and physique to get away with it. The reality is Jim Kelly used to take 5-8 big hits a game because he wasn’t mobile and would get hit just standing in the pocket. I actually think that’s worse because that’s where the serious knee injuries happen.

Just now, Locomark said:

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Locomark

[billsbackto81]

11 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

If Murray took one of the hits that Josh is accustomed to he'd go on IR.

 

1 minute ago, Ecmic82 said:

Man watching Murray run is like watching James Harden drive to the basket. Not a knock, because it's hacking the system to get results, and that's all that matters. But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting... to see him sliding into defenders' knees. But he's short and baseball-trained, so I'd blame him if he didn't do it. Also, the vast majority of Murray's runs were scrambles.

 

Allen's issue on Sunday was most of his runs were designed options. Just my opinion, but it's super hard to justify a slide on an option play. Like, just don't run it at all if protecting the quarterback is a primary concern. There were a few designed runs Sunday where Allen should have slid though. The reverse field stiff-arm comes to mind. The knock-out against the Patriots is an all-time obvious one too. But to me alot of it comes down to design - scrambles are easier to justify slides, and I'd rather see plays designed to take advantage of Allen's scrambling ability (like clearing sides or something) as opposed to designed run plays where you're going to have to fight through a tackle or two to justify the call. But I'm a novice at that stuff so I don't know.

 

Its a double standard. Guys like Josh, Cam and Big Ben will hardly draw a call (well maybe not Ben) because a lot of times they will take on contact or slide what might be considered too late. Murray as you mentioned played baseball and has great sliding technique. And because he's so small if you make contact with him it almost looks deliberate, like you're bullying him. If you slide into a person who's coming at you full speed how in the heck is he supposed to avoid contact?

[NickelCity]

31 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said:

But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting

 

He really did get some absurd phantom calls. He's a legit QB and a budding star, but those calls drove me nuts.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

One guy fumbles a lot while running the other doesn't.

[Ecmic82]

4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If Murray took one of the hits that Josh is accustomed to he'd go on IR.

 

Its a double standard. Guys like Josh, Cam and Big Ben will hardly draw a call (well maybe not Ben) because a lot of times they will take on contact or slide what might be considered too late. Murray as you mentioned played baseball and has great sliding technique. And because he's so small if you make contact with him it almost looks deliberate, like you're bullying him. If you slide into a person who's coming at you full speed how in the heck is he supposed to avoid contact?

 

It's interesting because I think it's true, and it delves into an aspect of sport that actually transcends sport, so I think it'll be pretty much impossible to remove the human bias that influences a necessary rule (protecting the quarterback). Refs are refs, but more fundamentally refs are products of social norms that promote unequal adjudication of physical threat, so the NFL won't be able to reconcile what you describe from what the letter of their law says should be.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Ecmic82

[Billy Claude]

48 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Tyler Murray has a Doug Flutie build. He only needs to take 1 shot and he is out for the count..... I agree Josh shouldn’t be taking 10 shots a game but you have Newton running straight at people at age 30 so there are those few physical people who have that ability and physique to get away with it. The reality is Jim Kelly used to take 5-8 big hits a game because he wasn’t mobile and would get hit just standing in the pocket. I actually think that’s worse because that’s where the serious knee injuries happen.

 

 

I don't think there is much evidence for smaller guys being more injury prone.  I don't remember Doug Flutie being very injury prone nor is Russell Wilson injury prone.   

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

When he scrambles the defenders look like rocky bal boa and he’s the chicken 🐓 

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I don't think there is much evidence for smaller guys being more injury prone.  I don't remember Doug Flutie being very injury prone nor is Russell Wilson injury prone.   

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height.

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

When he scrambles the defenders look like rocky bal boa and he’s the chicken 🐓 

One of my favorite scenes.

Rocky: It's my lucky shirt, it brings me luck.

Micky: You know what it brings, it brings flies

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said:

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height.

My doctor didn't put it as delicately as that.

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

 

To be fair - they say he only got tackled once.  Did you even watch the game?

 

Murray took at least 3 big shots as he slid.  Twice the 49ers were called for roughing and they let the third go.  Two of the three times he get hit in the head and neck area - which is how both Flacco and Alex Smith got knocked out for multiple games with concussions.  The third hit was when Murray did not really slide - he slipped and fell sideways and got smacked and for some reason they flagged the 49ers and both the announcers and the booth Ref said it was a legal hit.

 

The point is Murray took as many shots as Allen and when he slides - you see his baseball background because he gets down quick, but it exposes his head to shots.  I think sliding for Allen would actually expose him to more big hits especially to his head, neck, and shoulder regions.  This is especially true if he tries to get down late with guys barring down on him.

 

I want to see him slide when he has room and has the first down, but I also do not want to see him go Kyle Orton and slide just to avoid hits and not get a first down that could lead to a win.  I want him to play his game - not what Penfield45 thinks is best.

 

Plus I think you should really fix your title which is a complete lie.  He got tackled once.  He took many more hits on his runs.  You totally changed what actually happened and it is wrong.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[BritBill]

Every time I see Murray run I can't get the Benny Hill music out of my head.

[Billy Claude]

38 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height .

 

 

 

 

You could argue that Murray was cheating but Murray weight 205 at his pro day and Russell Wilson weighted 204 at his pro day so if Russell Wilson is not small neither is Kyler Murray.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Billy Claude

[billsbackto81]

23 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

You could argue that Murray was cheating but Murray weight 205 at his pro day and Russell Wilson weighted 204 at his pro day so if Russell Wilson is not small neither is Kyler Murray.

Yep, looks are deceiving. Supposedly 5'10" 207lbs but he looks soooooo much smaller than that, at least on TV. 

[TH3]

What is the over under for amount of threads Penfield will start on variations of this topic?

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Well he's not very big it's easy to miss him.

[GG]

4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Curious to see what the responses will be. One is 6'3" 230lbs and the other is 5'3" 130lbs🤣 One runs like a cheetah and the other runs like, well a Buffalo.

 

The cheetah is also smart enough not to go head first into a safety.

[billsbackto81]

13 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The cheetah is also smart enough not to go head first into a safety.

Buffalos don't care what they run in to or over😄

[GG]

1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said:

Buffalos don't care what they run in to or over😄

 

Brilliant strategy for your franchise QB

[SCBills]

You definitely can’t compare Allen running to Wilson or Murray... You can’t compare him to Jackson either, but one thing Jackson does that I think Allen could do is the “WR self tackle” where you sense the defender and just dive down into open grass or get out of bounds.  
 

That being said, Allen only took two hits that i didn’t love Sunday, and one of them was in the pocket... (the penalty where a Jet defender dove at his lower leg)

 

 

 

[Mrbojanglezs]

I don't understand why everyone is scared of Josh running. You are historically more at risk to injury as a QB in the pocket.

  1) in the pocket you get hit blindsided

  2) you have a defender running full speed at you while you are standing often not bracing yourself

  3) your foot is planted making ligament damage more common.

 

When you are running you generally see whats coming, he may get hit in the head for a concussion or maybe some bruised ribs or something, but in general running QBs don't get injured more than qbs that stay in the pocket.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Mrbojanglezs

[BillnutinHouston]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Well he's not very big it's easy to miss him.

 

Have you seen the size of his head?

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Josh is a mannnnn dont sweat it

Jk. Ball security and big hits are obviously a huge concern. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Gotta say I didn’t believe in that little guy but he’s a baller.  His baseball background helps with this too.

 

also, while Allen might not get destroyed in hits all the time, they add up.  It’s what happened to Cam and Big Ben where gradually their bodies started breaking down.  It’s a tough situation because running is what makes Allen so dangerous but it also could have long term effects.

26 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

I don't understand why everyone is scared of Josh running. You are historically more at risk to injury as a QB in the pocket.

  1) in the pocket you get hit blindsided

  2) you have a defender running full speed at you while you are standing often not bracing yourself

  3) your foot is planted making ligament damage more common.

 

When you are running you generally see whats coming, he may get hit in the head for a concussion or maybe some bruised ribs or something, but in general running QBs don't get injured more than qbs that stay in the pocket.

I’ve hear this but I question it, especially now.  QBs used to get their heads ripped off but it’s such a different league now.  If you go low or high on a qb, it’s a personal foul so defenders are adjusting and QBs aren’t going to take the monster hits like Kelly did in the pocket.  It’s such a different league.  It’s why qbs can play into their 40s because of the lack of contact. 

[Mickey]

6 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

 

I went back and looked at the film from the AZ game and I think there is a fair amount of bs in that tweet. There is a big difference between scrambling and a called run, much easier to slide or get out of bounds on a scramble. Below is a list of all the plays where Murray ran the ball (not counting sacks as runs). He only had two called runs and was hit on one of those though not much of a hit. He got hit, hard, on several of his slides resulting in penalties. Two of the "runs" were kneels at the end of the game. I only saw maybe one play where Murray dove or slid where I think Allen would have taken on the defender. That was a called run on AZ's own 6 yard line that was so poorly executed, I'm not sure it wasn't a broken play. Bottom line, on 10 "runs", Murray knelt or was hit 6 times, leaving only 4 where you could give him some credit for avoiding contact. 

    

[Bangarang]

He went to the Russell Wilson school of avoiding hits. 

[LeGOATski]

I'm not as worried about Allen taking hits when running as I am him fumbling. The two worst hits he took on Sunday were in the pocket.

 

Murray didn't fumble the ball. That's the difference.

[ProcessAccepted]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

My doctor didn't put it as delicately as that.

Comment of the season 😂

 

Well played!!

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, NickelCity said:

 

He really did get some absurd phantom calls. He's a legit QB and a budding star, but those calls drove me nuts.

They were tough calls.  He’s going to continue to get them though.  
 

meanwhile, our QB continues to get smacked with late hits in the pocket after he throws.  At least he’s getting some calls, but the pockets seems like a dangerous place for JA

[kenny3000]

7 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

 

why not? he can't learn?? I'm so confused by your response. He is 6'5" and can scramble with the best of them... so, why is he very agile but then not agile? I don't really get what you're trying to say. 

[DrDawkinstein]

7 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

 

And has a ton of training on sliding since he was also a baseball player, and drafted by MLB.

 

Big, gangly guys like Josh who try to slide end up jamming their knee in the turf and getting injured.

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

He went to the Russell Wilson school of avoiding hits. 

 

So Baseball Camp?

[marky]

Throw the ball!

[Don Otreply]

Just look at the size of KM he’s tiny, no wonder he tries so hard to not get hit....  all humor aside, Josh could certainly stand to slide/get out of bounds more often... he’s a big guy but these hits do take there toll over the long haul. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Plano]

the defenders were afraid of child abuse charges. 

[Rc2catch]

34 minutes ago, kenny3000 said:

 

why not? he can't learn?? I'm so confused by your response. He is 6'5" and can scramble with the best of them... so, why is he very agile but then not agile? I don't really get what you're trying to say. 

Josh is never going to be as fast or shifty as those other guys. He’s not built to make people miss down field. He’s a bigger target. There’s tons of reasons why he’s never going to be the same kind of scrambler as Murray or Wilson or Lamar. And those reasons are why he’ll never avoid hits the same as them. Those are not learned talents those are god given my friend. 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

I don't understand why everyone is scared of Josh running. You are historically more at risk to injury as a QB in the pocket.

  1) in the pocket you get hit blindsided

  2) you have a defender running full speed at you while you are standing often not bracing yourself

  3) your foot is planted making ligament damage more common.

 

When you are running you generally see whats coming, he may get hit in the head for a concussion or maybe some bruised ribs or something, but in general running QBs don't get injured more than qbs that stay in the pocket.

I’ve never understood this logic.  You may be as likely to get hurt from being hit in the pocket as you are being hit scrambling.  So what?  This isn’t an either/or proposition. Scrambling QBs aren’t exempt from getting hit in the pocket.  They still take those hits, and then they take hits outside the pocket.