How not to protect your blue chip franchise QB

[Simon]

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

[ColoradoBills]

dude

[Coach Tuesday]

Don’t forget no QB coach or veteran backup his first year.  That was criminal negligence.

[GoBills808]

Well put

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

they need to teach him how to “scamper” like Mahomes, Lamar, and Wilson— Wilson especially. I don’t think I have ever seen him take a hit, and he always knows exactly how far to run and how to get out of bounds. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

For reeeeeelz.

[Penfield45]

agree 100% 

 

I was totally baffled at some of those playcalls, Josh actually got hurt on that 2nd fumble, he was slow to get up and was limping a bit after taking a shot to his knee. imagine if that was his ACL, out for the season on massive rehab that could have potentially derailed his entire career. 

 

all because we have an OC who can't call a consistant gameplan. Mcdermott needs to show some responsibility and tell Daboll enough with the designed runs. 1-2 a game is nice in the redzone or short yardage. Allen runs enough on undesigned plays where he has to pick up yards. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Don’t forget no QB coach or veteran backup his first year.  That was criminal negligence.

Davis culley was a D1 QB and knows plenty about the qb position. just because he spent the majority of his career as a wide receiver coach doesn't mean he knows nothing about the position

[bmur66]

Totally agree

[RobbRiddick]

I was worried every time he ran today. 

[Max Fischer]

I don't mind Josh Allen run plays, it's what makes him so dangerous; same for Lamar Jackson, Randall Cunningham, etc.  However, I believe Daboll deserves criticism for the calling the play that led to the second fumble. It was Josh's fault for fumbling but it was a dumb and unnecessary call at that point of the game. 

[VirginiaMike]

It appears to be the new NFL approach.  Lamar Jackson rushed for over 75 yards, Kyler Murray is over 100 yards rushing, and Cam Newton had 15 rushing attempts today.  While I cringe when Allen runs the ball since I don't have much faith in Barkley, it's a different league now so I don't see it changing.  Just my opinion.

[Buffalo Boy]

    The crazy thing is JA showed amazing pocket awareness today. Heads above anything he has ever consistently shown in any game before.

    He also showed the ability to find open receivers and take what was given. 
    It WAS criminal to call that many designed runs and that many options. 
    I’ve been saying is since before last season and I hated seeing it Today when it wasn't necessary And detrimental 

[Nuncha]

I agree...you are up 21-3 at halftime and Allen leads the team in carries at the end of the day.  Yea the Jets have a good D line but come on you are going to kill your QB.  If Allen goes down long term - season over.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Azucho98

[TonyBeets]

Everytime i see a run designed play for JA, it makes me think the franchise doesn't value JA as a franchise QB.  He took some big hits today.

 

JA needs to stop taking hits on his scrambles.  The designed runs need to stop.  This kid could be our franchise QB.

[MJS]

Eh, he'll be fine.

[Bferra13]

Playcalling was bs in the first half. I cringed every time he pulled it down. He absorbed way too many hits today. That qb sweep late in the second quarter was an abysmal call.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Bferra13

[billsbackto81]

26 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

I was worried every time he ran today. 

I only worry when runs in the middle of the field. When's running to the sidelines and pylons I get excited 😆

[Captain_Quint]

It's a long season, and I dont think this is the gameplan. As the oline gets solidified, I think we will see less JA runs and more work from the running backs. 

[HOUSE]

He is using a better helmet this year...

[fansince88]

@Simon, I agree but you see his eyes and smile? You cant tie him down. He is gunna run!

[CommonCents]

I agree. What is the deal with Knox? Is he a terrible blocker? He wasn’t out there much. Allen needs a dependable safety outlet, I was hoping Knox could become that guy. 

[Captain_Quint]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

I agree. What is the deal with Knox? Is he a terrible blocker? He wasn’t out there much. Allen needs a dependable safety outlet, I was hoping Knox could become that guy. 

There was one time early in the game where Knox ran right past the only guy standing there. I ran it back and couldnt figure out why he didnt block him. It defied logic.  

That lead to a busted play. 

[VW82]

not sure he's effective enough yet in the passing game to completely remove the designed runs. I like giving him the option whether it's read or rpo so he can get rid of it if it looks like he might take a big hit on the keep. He's pretty darn effective calling his own number when he's not putting the ball on the ground. 

[Nick the Greek]

I was saying this. Allen is running WAAY too much. Only a matter of time until someone lights him up good if he keeps it up. Daboll needs to realize this darn it!!!

[WideNine]

33 minutes ago, Simon said:

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

 

 

Cannot disagree... there are simply other ways to be creative in the red zone. This does not mean I was down on our team today, I just think that Daboll is being obstinate about those designed QB sweeps. You don't want your team to play scared, but neither do you want to be reckless with your QB.

 

If they can just get Josh to set correctly for his passes on those roll outs to the left things will open up sideline to sideline for play action and misdirection. At this point defenses mostly ignore Allen when it is play action and he is rolling to the left (usually a non-passing threat rolling to that side) and just collapse on our RB playing the good odds he has the ball - that is why we saw receivers running cleanly with Allen when he kept the ball and rolled out left yet badly overthrew Brown in the EZ and why Allen walked into the end zone early in the game on a rollout to the left where the Jets sold out on the play action run and someone assigned to contain Allen didn't.

 

I cringe however every time I see the tell-tale pulling linemen and Josh jogging behind them followed by the inevitable crowded clash of bodies. History has taught everyone except Daboll that those plays more often than not end up as Allen-fumbles or Allen taking a big hit he shouldn't.

 

Allen seems to do better making yards on the fly or with the naked bootlegs/rollouts where he can pump fake a few times to create room with options to run/pass/throw-away and the sideline to work with.

[Billl]

They are playing to his strengths.  If you don’t like the plays that were called then you don’t like Josh.  He’s not Russell Wilson.  Asking him to play like Wilson would be setting him up to fail.

[NoSaint]

Yea, I wouldn’t be using up too many hits in a game like this. 
 

sure, put a few plays on tape to stress defenses but especially against Gregg Williams I’m not calling his number too many times in a game we should win handily without it 

Edited September 14, 2020 by NoSaint

[apuszczalowski]

This is the way the NFL has been trending for a while now. QBs who can double as RBs to help the offenses keep the defences on their toes. Taking away Allen's runs would be taking away his greatest assets that got him into the league. The plays aren't the issue, the problem is that they need to teach him how to protect the ball and how to avoid so much contact. He needs to learn how to run like a QB (slide or go out of bounds) and not like a RB (take the hit and fight for extra yards). Until he shows he can regularly beat NFL defences with his arm and make all the throws consistently, they need to keep throwing in running plays to keep defences on their toes.

[billsfanmiamioh]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

They are playing to his strengths.  If you don’t like the plays that were called then you don’t like Josh.  He’s not Russell Wilson.  Asking him to play like Wilson would be setting him up to fail.

His “strengths” won’t matter if he’s on IR. It’s not like the guy can’t throw. And I’m not saying never run him. But I definitely agree with the OP’s assessment here. 

[die hard bills fan]

Totally Agree.  Tasker commented on this during the game.  He thought on the play options the D (Greg Williams) philosophy was to basically ignore the option and key in on Allen -hit him as many times as they could. 

[Simon]

53 minutes ago, VirginiaMike said:

It appears to be the new NFL approach.  Lamar Jackson rushed for over 75 yards, Kyler Murray is over 100 yards rushing, and Cam Newton had 15 rushing attempts today.  

 

The difference is that those guys are RB's as much as they are QB's. Murray might turn into a legitimate NFL QB with the benefit of time but neither Jackson nor Newton are scaring anybody with their ability to see the field and deliver the ball on time. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yea, I wouldn’t be using too many hits in a game like this. 
 

sure, put a few plays on tape to stress defenses but especially against Gregg Williams I’m not calling his number too many times in a game we should win handily without it 

 

Agree.  Also, there is a good chance that next weeks game plan is completely different against the Fish.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

His “strengths” won’t matter if he’s on IR. It’s not like the guy can’t throw. And I’m not saying never run him. But I definitely agree with the OP’s assessment here. 

Blaming Daboll for Josh’s limitations is ridiculous.  Josh is effective as a passer when teams have to account for his running ability.  He’s not a surgeon who can slice and dice a team from the pocket.  He and Lamar are going to live and die with their ability to run.  When the Bills pass, they’re playing 11 on 10 because defenses have to spy on Josh.  If you’re expecting him to be Mahomes, you’re going to be sorely disappointed no matter what plays are called.

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The difference is that those guys are RB's as much as they are QB's. Murray might turn into a legitimate NFL QB with the benefit of time but neither Jackson nor Newton are scaring anybody with their ability to see the field and deliver the ball on time. 

And Allen isn't? Teams aren't exactly afraid of his arm (most people always not after games how teams looked to have created their gameplan on defence against the Bills to let Allen try to beat them with his arm). He has an extremely strong arm but that doesn't do any good if players can't catch it (because it was thrown too hard for the situation) or not in a position to be able to catch it 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

And Allen isn't? Teams aren't exactly afraid of his arm (most people always not after games how teams looked to have created their gameplan on defence against the Bills to let Allen try to beat them with his arm). He has an extremely strong arm but that doesn't do any good if players can't catch it (because it was thrown too hard for the situation) or not in a position to be able to catch it 

72% for 312 2tds no picks

[apuszczalowski]

Just now, Billl said:

Blaming Daboll for Josh’s limitations is ridiculous.  Josh is effective as a passer when teams have to account for his running ability.  He’s not a surgeon who can slice and dice a team from the pocket.  He and Lamar are going to live and die with their ability to run.  When the Bills pass, they’re playing 11 on 10 because defenses have to spy on Josh.  If you’re expecting him to be Mahomes, you’re going to be sorely disappointed no matter what plays are called.

Allen and Jackson are closer to being the same player then fans want to imagine. The difference is that Lamar is the better runner, while Allen is the better passer of the 2. He has to be able to run to be successful against the league's better teams

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The difference is that those guys are RB's as much as they are QB's. Murray might turn into a legitimate NFL QB with the benefit of time but neither Jackson nor Newton are scaring anybody with their ability to see the field and deliver the ball on time. 

Jackson was 20/25 for 275 yards, 3 TDs and no turnovers.  He’s magnificent.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Blaming Daboll for Josh’s limitations is ridiculous.  Josh is effective as a passer when teams have to account for his running ability.  He’s not a surgeon who can slice and dice a team from the pocket.  He and Lamar are going to live and die with their ability to run.  When the Bills pass, they’re playing 11 on 10 because defenses have to spy on Josh.  If you’re expecting him to be Mahomes, you’re going to be sorely disappointed no matter what plays are called.

this week we could’ve won with that 10 man offense and Gregg Williams trains his defense to injure quarterbacks I think is the concern. 
 

if it’s a big game against a tough opponent I think most are fine pulling out all the stops. But you don’t want him exposed on a throwaway play. He can Kyle Orton it against the jets. 

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Agree.  Also, there is a good chance that next weeks game plan is completely different against the Fish.

I mean, I’d hope in another game where we are overwhelming favorites we won’t expose him more. We need him healthy when we play the rams, raiders, titans and chiefs!

[WideNine]

Just now, Billl said:

Jackson was 20/25 for 275 yards, 3 TDs and no turnovers.  He’s magnificent.

 

Lamar had a great game and some throws on a rope. He is really good and is in a good situation in Baltimore. He is a better pure runner than Allen, but also has one of the best if not the leagues best run game and option/run coordinators in Greg Roman.