billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Yes 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? I wouldnt say its make or break in terms of winning an MVP or a Super Bowl. The make or break is looking at other franchise quarterbacks through three years and seeing if he is on a good enough trajectory to garner a franchise qb contract. This is the type of the thing that wont be concluded in the court of public opinion, it will be made by people who are not prone to hyperbole and can make good informed decisions. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. Nobody on this board maybe. But plenty of fans for each team would say the same thing about Mayfield and Darnold. Although, the argument there is that they haven't been surrounded with the coaching or talent that Josh has (coaching Mayfield's case, coaching and talent in Darnold's). I don't know that anyone is expecting perfection from Josh this year, but he needs to show steady improvement. Not sure I'd throw him out if he looked exactly the same as last year. He just cant regress. That said, if he shows the same amount of improvement this year as he did last year, we have our franchise QB. 11 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Of course not. He's on a 4 year contract with a 5th year team option. That means next year is his make or break year, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend otherwise. 14 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 It is in the sense that following year 3 the ownership has to consider whether they are going to make the big investment or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yes Straight to the point! I dig it! Don't agree, but I dig it. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 This thread will get @C.Biscuit97 a raging .... ..! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Watson is no worse than the 3rd best QB in the conference. Putting him in the same group as the others is silly. Edited August 17, 2020 by BullBuchanan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I mean, he is still under contract, so I would think that NEXT year is really the make or break year. The narrative is that Josh Allen won't have any excuses for poor play because he now has a number 1 receiver. Josh is safe (in that he'll get another year as a starter) if he plays the same, improves, or does slightly worse. If he falls off a cliff, maybe he isn't safe and the Bills are looking for another QB next year. But I expect he will improve, but perhaps not to the degree his detractors are demanding. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 He has everything around him to let him succeed. The HC we already know will probably be allowed to choose another QB. Teams are always looking to upgrade at every position... good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Of course not. He's on a 4 year contract with a 5th year team option. That means next year is his make or break year, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend otherwise. No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, TBBills said: He has everything around him to let him succeed. The HC we already know will probably be allowed to choose another QB. Teams are always looking to upgrade at every position... good teams. The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. "I don't like your tone......." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) On 8/17/2020 at 3:54 PM, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. FWIW 5th year options are only guaranteed for injury but your point is well taken. EDIT: I was wrong. The new CBA has changed that to fully guaranteed upon option pickup. Edited August 18, 2020 by ColoradoBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? Because they have to determine if he gets a contract extension 16 minutes ago, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. where are you getting $30M from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I wasn't aware that Josh needed to be excused in any way for his play last year. He took his team to the playoffs in only his second year and he did it with an offense that featured a supposedly has been Cole Beasley, Grandpa Gore and what had been a one dimensional target his whole career in John Brown. Beasley and Brown had great years, not despite Josh Allen but because of Josh Allen who consistently extended plays giving them both more time to get open. I won't recite the various weaknesses in the offense last year but I will say I don't think they were all solved by signing Diggs. We will see what Winters can do and whether Ford really is a RT or not soon enough. I expect Josh to be a lot like he was last year, definitely not the captain check down type so worshiped in these parts. He will take chances and with the game on the line, he will not be shy about running the ball when needed. I do expect he will improve on the deep ball and that Diggs will be a reliable receiver that gets open. I also expect his TE's to stop dropping the ball. I think Knox can be special if he improves his pass pro and cleans up the drops. All in all, I fully expect Josh to continue to make plays that win games and if his completion percentage ticks up a notch or two, fine, but I won't lose too much sleep if it doesn't because, like last year, we will be winning lots of games. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 It's make or break because there is enough talent on this team for a deep playoff run. If the QB is the reason they fail, then they need to find an alternative. If he is adequate but they fail then they need to decide if adequate is good enough out of the QB position. If he is great and they still fail well then we all greatly overestimated the talent on the roster. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. Moss instead of Gore is significant. Diggs as WR#1 is huge and will open up the field for Brown and Beasley. Returning all nearly all of last year's starters (or upgrading positions) for another year in the same system is also huge. This offense has huge potential but ultimately it will go as far as Allen can take it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. Offense will never be perfect it's up to him to take it to the next level. HUGE DIFFERENCE with Diggs. Edited August 17, 2020 by TBBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: "I don't like your tone......." Man! I can't even put him in the equation.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: Moss instead of Gore is significant. Diggs as WR#1 is huge and will open up the field for Brown and Beasley. Returning all nearly all of last year's starters (or upgrading positions) for another year in the same system is also huge. This offense has huge potential but ultimately it will go as far as Allen can take it. Moss is a rookie. I don't like to assume that rookies will be major contributors. But he may. I expect him to be better than Gore. Another year in the system is only good if Daboll is actually a good coordinator. I guess we'll see. FYI I do expect the Bills to be better on offense. But I don't expect them to suddenly be a top 10 offense. I think they need a better offensive line and obviously Josh needs to get better too. I don't expect him to turn into Joe Montana over night. I expect him to make steady improvement, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Barring a turnover, first drive against the Jets is a touchdown. We go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. Without doubt, if he can’t hit 69% of his passes, he definitely needs to go. he’s not terrible, has a lot of upside but I’ve never heard a higher drafted player have more excuses made for him. He is in his 3rd year in the system with a defense that carries the team. This isn’t the 80s when receivers could get murdered running routes. It’s the easiest time to play qb in the history of the nfl. There is zero excuse to average less than 200 yards passing. bills fans have the worst standards for offensive play. we had to score more than 16 points: game last year to win. Such a low freakin bar. Edited August 17, 2020 by C.Biscuit97 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Josh is progressing on schedule. Make or break territory is for guys like Trubisky. Josh isn’t in that boat. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 45 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Watson is no worse than the 3rd best QB in the conference. Putting him in the same group as the others is silly. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. He's a great regular season QB. You want to blame his playoff games on coaching or defensive short comings? Go ahead. You can use the same train of thought on Josh's playoff game as well. To me he's not elite, yet. He is uber talented but hasn't won anything but a game Buffalo choked away. And no, I don't dislike him. If he and Josh were in the same draft and both on the board I'd pick Watson without blinking. But for the forseeable future Josh is my guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Josh just needs to keep making progress. He doesn’t need to cement his first ballot HOF status this year. Plenty of great QB’s with better “pedigrees” and training took a few years. Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning took time after coming out of major programs. Josh was a project and as long as he keeps showing improvement on the field I’m all in. His intangibles are off the charts. I like our odds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said: It is in the sense that following year 3 the ownership has to consider whether they are going to make the big investment or not. This. The same goes for Mayfield and Darnold, although Darnold has it much tougher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Moss instead of Gore is significant. Diggs as WR#1 is huge and will open up the field for Brown and Beasley. Returning all nearly all of last year's starters (or upgrading positions) for another year in the same system is also huge. This offense has huge potential but ultimately it will go as far as Allen can take it. And there’s no way our line is below average. basically he was wrong on everything 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Its make or break in the sense that he needs to improve on all the usual parameters that a QB gets measured by. But being that his performance is dependent on his teammates performances, One needs to be able to discern cause and effect so to speak. Imo if Josh leads the team to the playoffs again he will be the starter next year, if Josh leads the team to a division title and the playoffs, he is golden, add in a Playoff game win and he gets serious attention for a really big contract. Pretty much in that order, jmo... Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said: It is in the sense that following year 3 the ownership has to consider whether they are going to make the big investment or not. probably more after year 4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 If Josh doesn't take a really big step this year, odds are he never will and he'll be the next JP Losman. I haven't heard a lot of people say that this is a make or break year for any of those guys and I doubt many are saying that about Watson. With all due respect, I think you are overly sensitive to any criticism of Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 At the risk of sounding like a cranky old guy please remember than Kelly SUCKED THE BIG ONE his first three years as a Bill and that was after a hugely successful career in the USFL AND a Miami U stint too. All this CRAZY talk to JA needing to be Super Bowl ready in 4-5 years is just that....CRAZY TALK! Get some perspective here!!!! Sheesh!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? I agree completely. There are a lot of delusioned folks who post here that like to pretend they have a clue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoffs? Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I’m an Allen fan... but in my opinion, I think this is a very important year for him. We’ve seen him out the team on his back with his playmaking abilities.. but I want to see him win big games with his arm. I want to see more passing consistently, and I want to see much better accuracy on the deep ball. With the weapons he has now, the hope is that he can separate himself from the pack in a good way this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, Doc said: This. The same goes for Mayfield and Darnold, although Darnold has it much tougher. Darnold is getting screwed by the Jets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. He'd have to be a disaster this year for them to forgo the 5th year option. And while yes, they'd need to commit to the expensive 5th year, that's a heck of a lot different than committing to $35mm a year for 6 years or whatever he'll cost if he re-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown24 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Couldn’t disagree more OP. Darnold has immense pressure on him from fans AND media (come over to jets board and follow our beat writers on twitter, you’ll see). And he has a high school team surrounding him with a lunatic head coach. Josh Allen is, by far, in the best situation. It’s not unreasonable to expect him to deliver. It is unreasonable to expect Darnold to carry the Jets yet THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT’S EXPECTED OF HIM. I’d say it’s year 3 for these guys, they have to show, at minimum, solid growth and ability to lead a team to the playoffs consistently. That’s what’s expected. Not saying that’s a playoffs/Super Bowl mandate or bust, just saying you can’t leave this season with massive question marks about these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, GreggTX said: If Josh doesn't take a really big step this year, odds are he never will and he'll be the next JP Losman. I haven't heard a lot of people say that this is a make or break year for any of those guys and I doubt many are saying that about Watson. With all due respect, I think you are overly sensitive to any criticism of Allen. No one is saying that about Watson. Darnold and Mayfield, while no one may be saying it, are facing make or break years, although Darnold may be given a mulligan because of the state of the team. Edited August 17, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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