Duke back. CB King released.

[Chandler#81]

45 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Personally, I think it's unfair to judge him based on how he was inactive for 12 regular season games, then thrust into the offense in a playoff game and given 10 targets.

 

I still think he CAN be a good WR.  Hopefully we see better roster management in the next full season.

It’s that he WAS inactive for 12 games. This isn’t a newbie. He’s been in an nfl camp and blew it. He’s what, 27-28? He’s had his opportunity. Maybe the Rock’s new gig will give him an opportunity.

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

@Chandler#81, can you say more about "Sean seeing serious liabilities in his route running"?

 

I think it's fair to say that if Beane still saw great potential for improvement still with Foster and with Williams, he probably wouldn't have used (effectively) 3 draft picks on WR.

Only to the many posts of locker room chatter. There was certainly ample opportunity for him to show what a great ‘find’ he was and be a player every game.. He simply didn’t measure up. 

[JohnNord]

Duuuuuuuke I really his story but without a preseason it’s going to make it tough for him to make the team.

[GETTOTHE50]

He had too big of a drop in the playoffs. Not worth keeping anymore with the current wideouts. 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, TroutDog said:

While I recognize many (me among them) love the underdog story, I’m surprised he’s still on the team. Must be a DNA thing. 

 

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised, especially with how they used him in the playoff game at Houston. The coaches see something worthwhile.

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

It’s that he WAS inactive for 12 games. This isn’t a newbie. He’s been in an nfl camp and blew it. He’s what, 27-28? He’s had his opportunity. Maybe the Rock’s new gig will give him an opportunity.

Only to the many posts of locker room chatter. There was certainly ample opportunity for him to show what a great ‘find’ he was and be a player every game.. He simply didn’t measure up. 

He was supposed to be the WR on the roster that could make contested catches.  He missed some

huge opportunities in the playoff game versus Houston.  That’s why I think he’s on the outside looking in given who the WR room. 

[machine gun kelly]

I seriously doubt he makes more than the practice squad, but I would like him there.  Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis, Roberts, and I’m guessing McKenzie or Hodgins.  McKenzie because of the gimmick end around, and because he was a good emergency DB like the end of last year.  If they placed him on PS and Hodgins, we now have bigger WR’s, fast WR’s, and a sure fire OTM guy like aN Edelman type in Beasley.  With that said, I’d love to see D.Williams and McKenzie or the opposite on the PS, as it’s not as if we’re not going to see more COVID cases this year.

 

We have to have a back up K, P, LS, and 4th QB for COVID protection, and the other 12 should be spread out amongst the various position groups.  You might be able to just keep the active 4 TE’s and move D. Williams or Hodgins as a makeshift TE if necessary.  These PS guys are going to have a better shot at the squad who can play more than one position like the McKenzie example.

[Rocky Landing]

I think McKenzie's position is less stable than people think, and I would put him in with the competition for the same spot Duke is competing for. Certainly, they value McKenzie's athleticism, and versatility. But, all of those gadget plays that they used him for over the last couple years are all the sort of plays the Vikings used Diggs for, as well. And, frankly, Diggs is better at them. I would give McK a slight advantage over Duke, but I think his position is much more tenuous than it was this time last year.

[Kelly the Dog]

They may decide Roberts can play the MacKenzie role. I think MacKenzie is a wee bit quicker and better on the jet sweeps but Roberts is still quite fast and shifty. Without the OTAs and preseason it will be harder for rookie WR to make impact so they may want to keep Duke or Foster. 

[BornAgainBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think it's fair to say that if Beane still saw great potential for improvement still with Foster and with Williams, he probably wouldn't have used (effectively) 3 draft picks on WR.

 

This^^^^^

 

If it wasn't clear before, Draft Day 3 should've been an eye-opener to Duke and Foster. Step up your game, or "It's been real!"

[tomur67]

Duke's status as a Bill's receiver is really puzzling.  He's getting a lot of negative criticism because of a couple contested receptions he didn't make against the Texans.  But isn't it weird that a guy that was not given playing time for about 90% of the regular season becomes the main go-to guy during the playoff game.  And then he is slammed for not catching everything that was thrown his way. IMO I am not sure how good he is, but I think he's shown enough that he can play.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m done with Duke, personally. I certainly bought in on the big WR who squandered early opportunities then led the CFL in catches & yards. Mostly, I suppose, because it was a glaring need. But Sean seeing serious liabilities in his route running, crippling drops at inopportune times and no noticeable improvement coupled with fantastic upgrades at the position, make him expendable. jmo.

Compared to all the other ill timed/crippling drops that happened all season long by those that saw more playing time... 

Duke may not in the end make the team, but your kinda over stating his drops, and his route running has not been a glaring issue. Being he only had one real bad drop and that was post season sadly.  The receivers for the last two seasons have had a lot of bad drops as a group. I do see that getting better starting this season. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Rocky Landing]

I'll say this-- if Josh ever throws a Hail Mary into the end zone ftw, I want Duke in there.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, tomur67 said:

Duke's status as a Bill's receiver is really puzzling.  He's getting a lot of negative criticism because of a couple contested receptions he didn't make against the Texans.  But isn't it weird that a guy that was not given playing time for about 90% of the regular season becomes the main go-to guy during the playoff game.  And then he is slammed for not catching everything that was thrown his way. IMO I am not sure how good he is, but I think he's shown enough that he can play.

 

The should-have-been TD pass wasn't contested (initially, since he muffed it which then allowed the CB to make a play on the ball to prevent Duke from having another chance to catch it).

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Big body and has some good hands. 

 

He's basically what we wanted Benjamin to be but cost a drop in the bucket. 

 

No reason not to be a depth wr when they need sure hands or a good block. 

I completely agree. There's no point releasing him. His value as an insurance big body wr is obvious. Above avg hands and I think Josh has a little bit of chemistry with him. He'll never be anywhere near the top 3 but if one of the 2 rookies struggle then he can step in and get a few targets. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by LABILLBACKER

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, tomur67 said:

Duke's status as a Bill's receiver is really puzzling.  He's getting a lot of negative criticism because of a couple contested receptions he didn't make against the Texans.  But isn't it weird that a guy that was not given playing time for about 90% of the regular season becomes the main go-to guy during the playoff game.  And then he is slammed for not catching everything that was thrown his way. IMO I am not sure how good he is, but I think he's shown enough that he can play.

You can thank Daboll for that

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'll say this-- if Josh ever throws a Hail Mary into the end zone ftw, I want Duke in there.

Weird cause already dropped one at halftime that would probably have decided the game vs Houston

[Charles Romes]

Duke needed to be special in the playoffs and he looked, well, like a fourth receiver. That was his chance.  

[Rocky Landing]

11 minutes ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

 

This^^^^^

 

If it wasn't clear before, Draft Day 3 should've been an eye-opener to Duke and Foster. Step up your game, or "It's been real!"

This may be overstated a bit. I suspect that day 3 was all about BPA. It's especially likely that Hodgins was BPA at that moment, as was Fromm two picks before. 

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Weird cause already dropped one at halftime that would probably have decided the game vs Houston

It's only weird if you judge his abilities based on one play.

[Fred Slacks]

56 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

That 70% number was based on 15 years of data, but do agree  this year could be different as likely lower chances of teams grabbing players cut by others unless it's someone that another team wanted to draft or sign.  If they feel they can slip Hodkins to the PS without getting grabbed then that may happen or as I said in another thread they are really hoping he gets a hang nail so they can move him to IR.

 

But even then, you still have Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Roberts, Davis, and likely McKenzie ahead of him.  Think he'll need to show a marked improvement in training camp from last season to stick over one of these other guys.

I don’t know McKenzie is a sure fire. Especially adding Diggs to the top 3. I think it devalues McKenzie. Also I don’t think McKenzie is there for the WR component as much as stretching the field sideways from a running component cause Singletary and Gore didn’t have the outside speed necessary. I’m curious to see how it plays out this year. Like if Wade somehow shows he can handle the offense better and we’re to get rostered I think that would spell the end for McKenzie. Or if Foster shows he can handle the end around a then that could be it for McKenzie. I do think McKenzie is a different style runner than Foster. Again I think this comes down to the WR coach and Daboll negotiating at cuts who they want more. 

 

I think the locks are:

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis (not necessarily 4th WR but definitely not getting cut)

 

Most likely in:

Roberts

 

Completely up in the air and dependent on how other positions play out as well as in no particular order (keeping 1-2):

Duke

Hodgkins

McKenzie

Foster

 

What I take from this is out of the last 4 speed is not the necessary component of why players were hanging around last season. With Diggs and Davis now I think that pushes Foster and McKenzie further down as a need to hang around. Which opens up the possibility for Duke or Hodgkins to be number 6 or 7. 
 

Also if for some reason a young DB or RB shows they have return ability that could shift the priority of keeping Roberts too. I prefer they keep him. But that sort of thing opens up an opportunity for younger WR’s

 
 

 

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Likely if Williams is cut, agree he will be picked up by someone else as has shown enough.  I'd say Hopkins has more upside because he was drafted  where as Williams never was.  Her signed as an UDFA and got cut in September.  No teams were interested in him so for two seasons played in Canada.  Granted much was for off field issues, but still he wasn't signed.  As to teams cutting 6th rounders all the time, 70.2%  stick the 1st year, dropping to 57% the second year all the way down to 10% by year five.  However by year 5, only 18% of 3rd rounders are still on a roster too. 

 

I think Williams would need to show a significant improvement from last season to be kept over a draft pick.   As I said the best chance for Williams is Hodkins is put on IR, then that may open a spot and that's assuming they keep 6 WR

 

Actually I forgot completely about Roberts so that even further lessens Williams chances.

You conveniently forgot to mention that Duke lit up the CFL the year before signing with the us.Why does Roberts deserve the spot over Duke. He crapped the bed last year and is to expensive if he's not productive. I think given an even chance he stays, Robert's goes and Hodgins is a PS or IR casualty.

 

[Mr. K]

Should've caught the TD against Houston. It would certainly be a feel good story if Duke got it all together and it clicked. I am absolutely cheering for him but I am left with one question.. How many looks does he get after Brown, Diggs, Beasley, Knox, Singletary, Rookie Zach Moss and Sweeny/additional TE?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Based upon forum reactions, I am still unsure if Duke Williams is Michael Biehn (Johnny Ringo) in 'Tombstone', or ? Randolph Scott. ?

[eball]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised, especially with how they used him in the playoff game at Houston. The coaches see something worthwhile.

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

[machine gun kelly]

“Why Johnny Ringo.  Looks like somebody walked all over you’re grave.  Play for Blood right, amd it’s ok, legal.  I was just kidding.  I wasn’t.  Say when”.  That’s myself, my cousin, and one of my best friends top of the list guys movies.  
 

You tell Belicheck, I’m comin, and hells comin with me!  You tell em. We see a Patriots sash, we kill it.  (Ok mods, before sensored, just a couple of lines from Tombstone.  No violence encouraged here.)

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, eball said:

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

I think the uncontested catch not made by Brown with the totally unnecessary bunny hop was an easier play not made.  Both effectively cost them 4 pts.

   

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

This may be overstated a bit. I suspect that day 3 was all about BPA. It's especially likely that Hodgins was BPA at that moment, as was Fromm two picks before. 

It's only weird if you judge his abilities based on one play.

I didn't follow him in the CFL but I saw all 19 of his NFL targets and I can safely say the guy is a borderline reserve/practice squad player

 

If you are playing Duke Williams you have issues at wideout which was our case last season. This year it's a much improved group with no need to thin the roster with marginal guys.

[Mike in Horseheads]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

If we're going back to that Houston game and that play then lets discuss the points lost when we had a TD or saftey on the second half KO.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Duke = Super Bowl.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Mike in Horseheads said:

If we're going back to that Houston game and that play then lets discuss the points lost when we had a TD or saftey on the second half KO.

[NoSaint]

17 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

If we're going back to that Houston game and that play then lets discuss the points lost when we had a TD or saftey on the second half KO.

Another sports board I read had that come up the other day. Consensus from non bills fans was we got screwed on that one. 

[Fr. Jerk]

This is good news. I like yelling "DUUUUUKE!" at the TV when he makes a catch, ya dig? 

[HOUSE]

Duke will be Mayor of Orchard Park someday

[Johnny Hammersticks]

38 minutes ago, eball said:

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

 

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to forgive him for that drop in the EZ.  Brutal.

[Kelly the Dog]

34 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I think the uncontested catch not made by Brown with the totally unnecessary bunny hop was an easier play not made.  Both effectively cost them 4 pts.

   

That was a bigger mistake and much easier play than Duke’s. Although Duke’s was an a automatic TD and Brown’s was a probable eventual TD. 

[Fr. Jerk]

14 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Duke will be Mayor of Orchard Park someday

 

[Beast]

51 minutes ago, eball said:

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

 

Right, but that was one game. Playoff game or not, one game.

[IgotBILLStopay]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m done with Duke, personally. I certainly bought in on the big WR who squandered early opportunities then led the CFL in catches & yards. Mostly, I suppose, because it was a glaring need. But Sean seeing serious liabilities in his route running, crippling drops at inopportune times and no noticeable improvement coupled with fantastic upgrades at the position, make him expendable. jmo.

Man that was super harsh on D'haquille. He was the only guy getting consistent separation in the playoff game when the rubber hit the road. There was a reason Allen threw to him 10 times in the game and just 4 times each to Brown and Beasley. Young JA would like to retrya  couple of those throws back if he can. And the no-catch before halftime was not a - Knox type gimme drop - it was tough.

 

I still think if the Bills keep 7 WR, Duke makes the team - Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis, McKenzie, Roberts & Duke with Hodges and Foster going to the PS. I wouldnt be surprised if the Bills flipped one of the WRs for a draft pick in the next couple of weeks.

[TigerJ]

Duke played better at the end of last season.  Obviously, the Bills think he can still be a factor in the back end of the receiver competition.  At the same time Kkeem King must not have been too impressive in practice.

[Doc Brown]

The thing I love about Duke is his old school mentality of just making a routine catch, tossing the ball to the ref, and hurry up back to the huddle.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

The thing I love about Duke is his old school mentality of just making a routine catch, tossing the ball to the ref, and hurry up back to the huddle.

Your sarcasm is warranted.  I forgot about that play.

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Nothing against Duke, I like his story and his work ethic, but he didn't always make the most of his opportunities on the field last season.

 

If the camp competition between Duke and Hodgins is close at all, I'd rather have Hodgins on the team and bet on his potential. While his long speed isn't great (similar to Duke's I'd guess), Hodgins' agility drills at the combine were top of the class and his hands were considered the best by a lot of draft guys as well.