Revisiting Clowney & a Look at Logan Ryan

[Wizard]

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run with these two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely with our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmunds, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Wizard

[DFT]

What you gain in Clowney, one could argue you lose with one of our young guys.  I’d rather develop the younger, cheaper options and prepare for what’s looking like an expensive future.  Just my opinion.  

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East and an improving QB sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round and get a shot for more.

 

 

 

We like Johnson and Neal at slot corner and both are better right now than Logan Ryan imo, who apparently wont sign for less than $10M

 

I believe he was 30th in passer rating allowed last season too

[Doc]

If anyone, I'd look at Clowney.  The Bills could cut Murphy and save $6.425M, and probably need to add another $3.5M to get Clowney for the year.

[MJS]

McDermott doesn't usually sign high priced free agents in the secondary. He usually finds bargains and coaches them up. So I'll say no on Ryan.

 

I'm not a fan of Clowney, personally. Never really have been. So no for him too.

[IgotBILLStopay]

My first thought is that at this stage 20+ million is too much - so we should think about these players only as contingencies.  I would seriously look at Clowney if we have a drop out / NFI / injury to one of our DEs. Same for Logan Ryan. Ryan is actually a very nice scheme fit - he is an elite zone cover corner but very mediocre in man coverage. I am quite happy with our CB depth - but if there is a drop out / injury etc. Ryan is certainly worth a look. I also think at this stage Clowney is not going to get 13-14 million and Ryant is not going to get 7-8 million - so the fact they will be significantly cheaper will only make em more attractive.

 

Quote

Last season, Ryan gave up 25 catches on 39 targets for 280 yards, no touchdowns, three interceptions, and a Positive Play Rate of 48.7%.

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/06/16/the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-in-zone-coverage/3/

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run withese two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely wuth our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmund's, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

 

I really like this idea.  esp the part where if we are overloaded flipping for picks.  we have the cap space, and a window here, and a pass rush need.  Lets do it!!

[BruceVilanch]

I think Clowney is effective at setting the edge and has some impact plays from time to time, but I think he is vastly overrated (especially by himself) and I think he is still living off that hit he laid on that michigan RB.

[Wizard]

I agree with comments about these players possibly not being a fit, too overpriced, overrated, etc.

 

My interest in them or others is I believe each team will have multiple players opting-out plus normal injuries. With a more limited pool of players, playoff contenders may pay a small premium if we overload some positions with talent/depth.

 

While it may be true that Clowney and Ryan are not stars, they are better than average and may be better than several of our starters.

 

I see neither as a long-term answer, but they could make us an even more formidable defense in the playoffs. They also are knowledgeable of some tougher AFC teams (Houston, Tennesee, and New England) as former players. And, before the year is done, we can flip them, if desired, for a few additional 2021 picks.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Wizard

[Thurman#1]

No.

 

Use the money for the long-term good of the team and re-sign the guys who we need to re-sign.

[GunnerBill]

I'd sign Clowney tomorrow for $12m. He was 5th in the NFL in pass rush win percentage last year and he was disruptive on a lot of plays. He actually had a bit of the 2018 Jerry Hughes problem which was finishing those plays with sacks. But he had a much better season in Seattle than the narrative suggests. Not sure why he is still unsigned other than him originally wanting a huge pay day and to play for a competitor but he is going to end up a bargain pick up for someone at this stage.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

If anyone, I'd look at Clowney.  The Bills could cut Murphy and save $6.425M, and probably need to add another $3.5M to get Clowney for the year.

You're at least seven million short if you could get him here on a one year deal.

[NewEra]

If we’re really serious about making a SB run we should sign Clowney.  We have the money.  He wants to play for a contender.  We sign him right now with out cutting anyone and we also have a perfect cut candidate with Murphy if we want to save $.  
 

Could be he’s just a tool and they don’t want him

in the locker room, but idk

[machine gun kelly]

Seriously doubt anything on Clowney, but this is one thing I can see.  If Norman doesn’t work out in camp and really has lost a step (not saying he has, but just in case), then I can see Beane making an offer to Ryan.  He might be scooped up by then, but then again his asking price may go down if he doesn’t have a contract by week 1.  Also after week 1, his salary is not guaranteed.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Star?

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're at least seven million short if you could get him here on a one year deal.

 

He's not getting anywhere close to a 1-year $17M deal.  I could agree with $12M like GB suggested.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Doc

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'd sign Clowney tomorrow for $12m. He was 5th in the NFL in pass rush win percentage last year and he was disruptive on a lot of plays. He actually had a bit of the 2018 Jerry Hughes problem which was finishing those plays with sacks. But he had a much better season in Seattle than the narrative suggests. Not sure why he is still unsigned other than him originally wanting a huge pay day and to play for a competitor but he is going to end up a bargain pick up for someone at this stage.

I’d assume that it was a combo of covid halting medicals and then potentially challenging financials.

 

now it makes sense to see the opt outs first. Just a weird offseason for a guy like him. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run withese two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely wuth our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmund's, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

 

I think the coaching staff has a much better read on what they have in Norman.  At his prime think he was better than Ryan.  Playing in the Bills system, he could be close to that and they'd know the best.

With everything going on with a likely large drop in salary cap for 2021, I wouldn't want to use up any more money this year as that can carry over to help next year. Think these guys are going to find that's the message league wide and will likely have to sign for much less.  Even then, don't think it's worth it.

[KGun12TD]

11 hours ago, DFT said:

What you gain in Clowney, one could argue you lose with one of our young guys.  I’d rather develop the younger, cheaper options and prepare for what’s looking like an expensive future.  Just my opinion.  

 

I'd take him for 1 year and make a run at the championship. You can still develop the young guys...I think this team is a lot closer that a lot of us think. Just MHO. Go Bills.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think the coaching staff has a much better read on what they have in Norman.  At his prime think he was better than Ryan.  Playing in the Bills system, he could be close to that and they'd know the best.

With everything going on with a likely large drop in salary cap for 2021, I wouldn't want to use up any more money this year as that can carry over to help next year. Think these guys are going to find that's the message league wide and will likely have to sign for much less.  Even then, don't think it's worth it.

 

At his prime he was DEFINITELY better than Logan Ryan. And as I have kept saying... until 2019 when everything was a mess in Washington he actually played pretty well there. He didn't live up to the contract, but he was still a top 10 corner in 2016 and 2017 and a top 15 or so corner in 2018. He fell off big time in 2019 and maybe that is because he is done. 32 is old for a corner. That said, I think he gave up a big on a shambolic franchise. I don't expect a top 15 corner, but I do expect him to be an upgrade on Levi Wallace restored to his perfect scheme fit and a coach who gets him.

4 minutes ago, KGun12TD said:

 

I'd take him for 1 year and make a run at the championship. You can still develop the young guys...I think this team is a lot closer that a lot of us think. Just MHO. Go Bills.

 

If Josh takes a step commensurable with the step he took year 1 to year 2, then we are very close. Cut Trent, add it to the Star savings and bring Clowney in for a year.

[Seoulofstone]

 Clowney 'could' be a blue chip edge rusher. I don't feel like he's really developed and improved since he entered the league. He was second fiddle to Watt in Texas and Seattle wasn't a fit either. I would like to see him as a 4-3 DE under a really good defensive coach and DC. He would be an intriguing fit at Buffalo but my big issue with him is that he seems to have convinced himself that hes already a premier DE which he isn't. Myles Garrett got paid and the first thing he said is it's time to REALLY prove it. That man has drive. He knows he can be better than he's shown. Clowney just wants to be paid and that is why many fans don't want him. He will go somewhere like the jets and be misused again with occasional flashy games .

 

 I think Logan Ryan is really good. But slot corner is a position which the Bills cover adequately without spending. Second outside corner is much more desirable especially if you don't believe in Norman. So both of these guys are arguably unnecessary upgrades. 

[Mr. WEO]

Clowney thread count forever N+1......

[BullBuchanan]

I would love Logan Ryan. He's such a clutch player. I'm really shocked that's he wasn't one of the first free agents gone. I'm sure GM's know something we don't, but I'd really liek to know what it is.

[first_and_ten]

13 hours ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run with these two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely with our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmunds, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

 

 

Do the Bills have 25 million in cap space?

[Sherlock Holmes]

14 hours ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run with these two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely with our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmunds, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

Meh... Take Stars money and the money you'd spend on Clowney and trade for either of the Bosas, or Watts... Preferably TJ now that he is younger than JJ and less injury history (even though it would give me plenty of work to do to JJ)

Kerrigan is another great option but on the older side as well.

[Rocky Landing]

I'd be more than interested in either one of them. It's worth noting, though, that a real problem with signing even star players this season, (especially on defense, IMO) is how the restricted training protocols, and the diminished preseason will affect the players, and coaches ability to get them into the system. Clowney would make the most sense, IMO, considering the heavy rotation on the D-line. But, continuity is a real asset this season from which the Bills will benefit. I'd be pretty shocked if they cut Murphy, honestly.

[billsfan89]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'd sign Clowney tomorrow for $12m. He was 5th in the NFL in pass rush win percentage last year and he was disruptive on a lot of plays. He actually had a bit of the 2018 Jerry Hughes problem which was finishing those plays with sacks. But he had a much better season in Seattle than the narrative suggests. Not sure why he is still unsigned other than him originally wanting a huge pay day and to play for a competitor but he is going to end up a bargain pick up for someone at this stage.

 

I think Clowney's sack total is misleading as I do think he had a good season last year being a very disruptive player and a one year deal would be good for a mercenary like Clowney to keep his motivation. However I think that given the volatile nature of this season and possibly next season it would be best for the Bills to make any trades or big cap guzzling acquisitions in season. Players are going to miss games due to Covid and injuries happen in any season. 

 

I wouldn't hate a Clowney acquisition on a one year deal, however I would prefer the team keep its flexibility in season. Although if there is one more free agent out there that the team likes to go after I would almost rather Logan Ryan as I am not too confident in the CB2 options esp if Norman doesn't pan out (Levi Wallace is an OK fall back but Gaines is always hurt and Norman is shaky.) 

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He's not getting anywhere close to a 1-year $17M deal.  I could agree with $12M like GB suggested.

He played for 15 million last year.  Seahawks were/are trying to sign him around that range.  Rumors are that the Browns are offering in the 18 million dollar range.  He was seeking around 21 million at the start of free agency.  It would take at least 17 million to get him to come to Buffalo with maybe some incentives built in.

[Steve Billieve]

Now is definitely the time to save money for next year. When the cap drops next year there is going to be a historic buying opportunity as cap strapped teams can't compete for free agents.

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Yes to Ryan, absolutely not on Clowney. Massive injury risk, still more hype than production, plays a position we have great depth/talent at, and would cost way too much money. 

 

Upgrading our #2 CB position on the other hand is a smart move. That's the weak link in our defense at the moment (barring a huge comeback from Norman), still wishing we would have signed Chris Harris Jr. to be honest. 

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He played for 15 million last year.  Seahawks were/are trying to sign him around that range.  Rumors are that the Browns are offering in the 18 million dollar range.  He was seeking around 21 million at the start of free agency.  It would take at least 17 million to get him to come to Buffalo with maybe some incentives built in.

 

I thought I heard much lower.  More power to him.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Steve Billieve said:

Now is definitely the time to save money for next year. When the cap drops next year there is going to be a historic buying opportunity as cap strapped teams can't compete for free agents.

 

Or save the money for in season as this is going to be a season where depth and flexibility matter most. 

[Steve Billieve]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Or save the money for in season as this is going to be a season where depth and flexibility matter most. 

 

Next year there will be an opportunity for teams with money to lock in  players for years on friendly deals. Next year free agents just aren't going to get paid like they used to. Sure, some will opt for 1 year deals, but plenty will want to be signed long term anyways.

It will be the equivalent of having the entire free agency pool under threat of tag.

[billsfan89]

Just now, Steve Billieve said:

 

Next year there will be an opportunity for teams with money to lock in  players for years on friendly deals. Next year free agents just aren't going to get paid like they used to. Sure, some will opt for 1 year deals, but plenty will want to be signed long term anyways.

It will be the equivalent of having the entire free agency pool under threat of tag.

 

Yes but if the Bills are making a run at the playoffs and they suffer a Covid Infection or an injury and there is someone out on the market that might help replace them decently I wouldn't be opposed to using some money to sign that veteran talent. I agree try and save it as roll over but also have it as a tool at your disposal for this season as well. 

[billykay]

2 hours ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Yes to Ryan, absolutely not on Clowney. Massive injury risk, still more hype than production, plays a position we have great depth/talent at, and would cost way too much money. 

 

Upgrading our #2 CB position on the other hand is a smart move. That's the weak link in our defense at the moment (barring a huge comeback from Norman), still wishing we would have signed Chris Harris Jr. to be honest. 

Wallace is not a weak link. Between the three of them it is actually a strong position.

[H2o]

17 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

I think Clowney is effective at setting the edge and has some impact plays from time to time, but I think he is vastly overrated (especially by himself) and I think he is still living off that hit he laid on that michigan RB.

It was a thing of beauty

 

[Steve Billieve]

4 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Yes but if the Bills are making a run at the playoffs and they suffer a Covid Infection or an injury and there is someone out on the market that might help replace them decently I wouldn't be opposed to using some money to sign that veteran talent. I agree try and save it as roll over but also have it as a tool at your disposal for this season as well. 

Money is a much better strategic asset than a tactical one. You can't use it to fix problems easily, but you can use it to build value overtime.

I would much rather add a key piece over the next 4 years next offseason, than hope some free agent might be that additional boost (they rarely are).

[BruceVilanch]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

It was a thing of beauty

 

.....it's gorgeous. That sound, and the QB turning around thinking "There's no way my RB already got lit up, I just handed him the ball...OH F***"

[Locomark]

Why is Logan Ryan always sitting out there late into the fire agency period and then only getting prove it deals ? The players put him in the top 70 players in the NFL 100, he has playoff experience and seems to make plays. Why wouldn’t a team want to drop 7-9mil on a guaranteed top flight CB? What is his knock? 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Why is Logan Ryan always sitting out there late into the fire agency period and then only getting prove it deals ? The players put him in the top 70 players in the NFL 100, he has playoff experience and seems to make plays. Why wouldn’t a team want to drop 7-9mil on a guaranteed top flight CB? What is his knock? 

 

He's overpricing himself.  Like Clowney.