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Wizard

Revisiting Clowney & a Look at Logan Ryan

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Posted (edited)

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run with these two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely with our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmunds, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

Edited by Wizard
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What you gain in Clowney, one could argue you lose with one of our young guys.  I’d rather develop the younger, cheaper options and prepare for what’s looking like an expensive future.  Just my opinion.  

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9 minutes ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East and an improving QB sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round and get a shot for more.

 

 

 

We like Johnson and Neal at slot corner and both are better right now than Logan Ryan imo, who apparently wont sign for less than $10M

 

I believe he was 30th in passer rating allowed last season too

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If anyone, I'd look at Clowney.  The Bills could cut Murphy and save $6.425M, and probably need to add another $3.5M to get Clowney for the year.

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McDermott doesn't usually sign high priced free agents in the secondary. He usually finds bargains and coaches them up. So I'll say no on Ryan.

 

I'm not a fan of Clowney, personally. Never really have been. So no for him too.

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My first thought is that at this stage 20+ million is too much - so we should think about these players only as contingencies.  I would seriously look at Clowney if we have a drop out / NFI / injury to one of our DEs. Same for Logan Ryan. Ryan is actually a very nice scheme fit - he is an elite zone cover corner but very mediocre in man coverage. I am quite happy with our CB depth - but if there is a drop out / injury etc. Ryan is certainly worth a look. I also think at this stage Clowney is not going to get 13-14 million and Ryant is not going to get 7-8 million - so the fact they will be significantly cheaper will only make em more attractive.

 

Quote

Last season, Ryan gave up 25 catches on 39 targets for 280 yards, no touchdowns, three interceptions, and a Positive Play Rate of 48.7%.

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/06/16/the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-in-zone-coverage/3/

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1 hour ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run withese two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely wuth our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmund's, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

 

I really like this idea.  esp the part where if we are overloaded flipping for picks.  we have the cap space, and a window here, and a pass rush need.  Lets do it!!

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I think Clowney is effective at setting the edge and has some impact plays from time to time, but I think he is vastly overrated (especially by himself) and I think he is still living off that hit he laid on that michigan RB.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with comments about these players possibly not being a fit, too overpriced, overrated, etc.

 

My interest in them or others is I believe each team will have multiple players opting-out plus normal injuries. With a more limited pool of players, playoff contenders may pay a small premium if we overload some positions with talent/depth.

 

While it may be true that Clowney and Ryan are not stars, they are better than average and may be better than several of our starters.

 

I see neither as a long-term answer, but they could make us an even more formidable defense in the playoffs. They also are knowledgeable of some tougher AFC teams (Houston, Tennesee, and New England) as former players. And, before the year is done, we can flip them, if desired, for a few additional 2021 picks.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

Edited by Wizard

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No.

 

Use the money for the long-term good of the team and re-sign the guys who we need to re-sign.

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I'd sign Clowney tomorrow for $12m. He was 5th in the NFL in pass rush win percentage last year and he was disruptive on a lot of plays. He actually had a bit of the 2018 Jerry Hughes problem which was finishing those plays with sacks. But he had a much better season in Seattle than the narrative suggests. Not sure why he is still unsigned other than him originally wanting a huge pay day and to play for a competitor but he is going to end up a bargain pick up for someone at this stage.

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4 hours ago, Doc said:

If anyone, I'd look at Clowney.  The Bills could cut Murphy and save $6.425M, and probably need to add another $3.5M to get Clowney for the year.

You're at least seven million short if you could get him here on a one year deal.

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If we’re really serious about making a SB run we should sign Clowney.  We have the money.  He wants to play for a contender.  We sign him right now with out cutting anyone and we also have a perfect cut candidate with Murphy if we want to save $.  
 

Could be he’s just a tool and they don’t want him

in the locker room, but idk

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Seriously doubt anything on Clowney, but this is one thing I can see.  If Norman doesn’t work out in camp and really has lost a step (not saying he has, but just in case), then I can see Beane making an offer to Ryan.  He might be scooped up by then, but then again his asking price may go down if he doesn’t have a contract by week 1.  Also after week 1, his salary is not guaranteed.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're at least seven million short if you could get him here on a one year deal.

 

He's not getting anywhere close to a 1-year $17M deal.  I could agree with $12M like GB suggested.

Edited by Doc

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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'd sign Clowney tomorrow for $12m. He was 5th in the NFL in pass rush win percentage last year and he was disruptive on a lot of plays. He actually had a bit of the 2018 Jerry Hughes problem which was finishing those plays with sacks. But he had a much better season in Seattle than the narrative suggests. Not sure why he is still unsigned other than him originally wanting a huge pay day and to play for a competitor but he is going to end up a bargain pick up for someone at this stage.


I’d assume that it was a combo of covid halting medicals and then potentially challenging financials.

 

now it makes sense to see the opt outs first. Just a weird offseason for a guy like him. 

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11 hours ago, Wizard said:

If Clowney and Logan Ryan could be picked up for say $20-$25 million for this year on one-year deals, would you want Beane to make that offer? (Say Clowney at 13-14 mil and Ryan at 7-8 mil).

 

Clowney would be no worse than a #2 DE. Logan Ryan would be a for sure #2 as he is better than all CB's minus Tre. Essentially, it is a more expensive but low-risk one-year tryout for two guys who would make the defense even stronger for a team that needs its QB to be a top 15-20 QB.

 

Last year, the 49er's made a Superbowl with a 15-25 level QB and a top 5 defense.

 

Hughes, Clowney, Oliver, Star, Edmunds, Milano, Klein, White, Ryan, Poyer, Hyde, and depth on Defense coupled with a weakened AFC East sounds like a reasonable chance to make the 2nd round.

 

***Clowney and Ryan or guys they replace become possible draft picks by flipping them too other teams, especially as teams lose depth to COVID opt-outs.

 

 Worst case scenario is we get two guys that add depth. Best case, we make a stronger run withese two or we turn these two into 2021 picks that are cheap but valuable assets that go nicely wuth our salary cap for when we pay people like White, Edmund's, Dawkins, or Milano.

 

 

 

 

I think the coaching staff has a much better read on what they have in Norman.  At his prime think he was better than Ryan.  Playing in the Bills system, he could be close to that and they'd know the best.

With everything going on with a likely large drop in salary cap for 2021, I wouldn't want to use up any more money this year as that can carry over to help next year. Think these guys are going to find that's the message league wide and will likely have to sign for much less.  Even then, don't think it's worth it.

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11 hours ago, DFT said:

What you gain in Clowney, one could argue you lose with one of our young guys.  I’d rather develop the younger, cheaper options and prepare for what’s looking like an expensive future.  Just my opinion.  

 

I'd take him for 1 year and make a run at the championship. You can still develop the young guys...I think this team is a lot closer that a lot of us think. Just MHO. Go Bills.

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1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think the coaching staff has a much better read on what they have in Norman.  At his prime think he was better than Ryan.  Playing in the Bills system, he could be close to that and they'd know the best.

With everything going on with a likely large drop in salary cap for 2021, I wouldn't want to use up any more money this year as that can carry over to help next year. Think these guys are going to find that's the message league wide and will likely have to sign for much less.  Even then, don't think it's worth it.

 

At his prime he was DEFINITELY better than Logan Ryan. And as I have kept saying... until 2019 when everything was a mess in Washington he actually played pretty well there. He didn't live up to the contract, but he was still a top 10 corner in 2016 and 2017 and a top 15 or so corner in 2018. He fell off big time in 2019 and maybe that is because he is done. 32 is old for a corner. That said, I think he gave up a big on a shambolic franchise. I don't expect a top 15 corner, but I do expect him to be an upgrade on Levi Wallace restored to his perfect scheme fit and a coach who gets him.

4 minutes ago, KGun12TD said:

 

I'd take him for 1 year and make a run at the championship. You can still develop the young guys...I think this team is a lot closer that a lot of us think. Just MHO. Go Bills.

 

If Josh takes a step commensurable with the step he took year 1 to year 2, then we are very close. Cut Trent, add it to the Star savings and bring Clowney in for a year.

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