Irv Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Do you feel like you can speak honestly about your heartfelt thoughts on race relations without retribution at your workplace or elsewhere? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 No. Only one narrative is allowed. . 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 INteresting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Yes ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 What about the little green men from Mars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Workplace - Yes. If I shared my thoughts on the topic, I'm confident it would be well-received. But I do not discuss anything political or controversial in the workplace. PPP - No. Edited June 19, 2020 by Gugny Clarification 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Until I've walked a mile in someone else's shoes, I'm reluctant to say anything about the person. Once I've walked a mile in their shoes, I can say whatever the hell I want, because I'm a mile away and I have their shoes. 2 11 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I work on a boat by myself, so I can say whatever I feel like. If I'm out in public, I'm not saying a thing about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocemur Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Oh hell no. Not that I would want to. Someone gave me quality advice a long time ago. Never talk religion, abortion or politics at work. That has served me very well over the years. If someone else wants to pontificate, have at it. I'm not saying a peep. Edited June 18, 2020 by ocemur spell check is racist!! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Not at all. And honestly I am not sure I want to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 19 hours ago, mead107 said: What about Do You Find Aliens Attractive? I fixed this for you, Mead. 18 hours ago, WhoTom said: Until I've walked a mile in someone else's shoes, I'm reluctant to say anything about the person. Once I've walked a mile in their shoes, I can say whatever the hell I want, because I'm a mile away and I have their shoes. Seriously, this may be my all time favorite post. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 20 hours ago, Irv said: Do you feel like you can speak honestly about your heartfelt thoughts on race relations without retribution at your workplace or elsewhere? No, because the workplace is not an appropriate arena to discuss your thoughts on race relations. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) No. And I’m not sure anyone is, really. We’re all working from personal anecdotes / experiences / knowledge. There’s so many stats and stories and such. I don’t even know how to make sense of it or where to begin. All I’ve got in all this is that I just try my best not to be an a—hole and as MLKJr said, judge people on the content of their character... and their actions. Donated blood a couple of weeks ago and someone there and someone was wearing a shirt that said, “We all bleed red.” The first time I started donating, I ran into a teacher from my old high school who said it’s a great act of altruism; you have no idea who’s going to end up needing & receiving your blood, what color their skin is, what they’ve done in their life, but it’s a small individual act where you say Here is part of myself for someone who needs it. Life is such a fragile thing. There’s no time to be so angry as everyone is today about everything. I’m unconvinced that anything can be solved through anger. Edited June 19, 2020 by UConn James 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Seasons1992 said: Seriously, this may be my all time favorite post. Well done. Thanks. I forgot to attribute it: it's a "Deep Thought" by Jack Handey (from the old SNL). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: No, because the workplace is not an appropriate arena to discuss your thoughts on race relations. Fixed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Fixed Where do you work that it is inappropriate to have or discuss thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Where do you work that it is inappropriate to have or discuss thoughts? @BringBackFergy may have some input on this........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: @BringBackFergy may have some input on this........... Are you referring to my "visitor"?? She has made several appearances outside my front door (which is glass) and she's wearing a mask. She thinks we can understand what she is saying as she stands there talking to my staff through a glass door with traffic passing in the background. #1) We can't read lips, and #2) it's twice as hard to read lips when she's wearing a mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Where do you work that it is inappropriate to have or discuss thoughts? California 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Are you referring to my "visitor"?? She has made several appearances outside my front door (which is glass) and she's wearing a mask. She thinks we can understand what she is saying as she stands there talking to my staff through a glass door with traffic passing in the background. #1) We can't read lips, and #2) it's twice as hard to read lips when she's wearing a mask. I'm now satisfied with bringing you onboard in this thread. Thank you for the visual! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said: No. The only things I talk about with the people I work with are food, sports, and work. Even sports sometimes I don’t bring it up... My one co worker is a big Patriots fan. Since I like and respect him otherwise it’s just not worth going there at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 35 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Are you referring to my "visitor"?? She has made several appearances outside my front door (which is glass) and she's wearing a mask. She thinks we can understand what she is saying as she stands there talking to my staff through a glass door with traffic passing in the background. #1) We can't read lips, and #2) it's twice as hard to read lips when she's wearing a mask. Is everyone and everything there in black and white, like old photographs? The more I hear about this town, it has to be in 'The Twilight Zone'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Is everyone and everything there in black and white, like old photographs? The more I hear about this town, it has to be in 'The Twilight Zone'. More like “Back to the Future” (Save the clocktower!! Save the clocktower!!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Mark Vader said: California Oh come on....it's entirely appropriate to have and discuss your thoughts in California. Obviously they need to be the approved thoughts.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 On 6/18/2020 at 12:52 PM, Irv said: Do you feel like you can speak honestly about your heartfelt thoughts on race relations without retribution at your workplace or elsewhere? I don't feel I can speak honestly about my heartfelt thoughts without retribution anywhere I want to maintain cordial long-term relationships. That would include Sunday BBQ with the Fam. Especially Sunday BBQ with the fam! Or the Neighbors! "How about them Blues?" (that works) I channel my late Grandfather on this one. He had a sign nailed up over his workbench: "Even a Fish wouldn't get into trouble if it Kept Its Mouth Shut!" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 ...my first question is why should ALL Caucasians feel guilt pains?......what exactly did us current crop do?.....are we responsible for the nation's history going back hundreds of years?....reparations?...what CURRENT or RECENT Caucasians enslaved RECENT black people?......care to start by telling me TODAY as to actually what the hell I'm guilty of??........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 53 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...my first question is why should ALL Caucasians feel guilt pains?......what exactly did us current crop do?.....are we responsible for the nation's history going back hundreds of years?....reparations?...what CURRENT or RECENT Caucasians enslaved RECENT black people?......care to start by telling me TODAY as to actually what the hell I'm guilty of??........ You don't need to feel guilty, but it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that while we all face hardships in life, for some of us, at least, our skin color isn't one of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 You can only have honest discussions about race with honest people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1. NEVER talk religion or politics. 2. Follow James 2:18 - show it by what you do, not what you say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 When the Starbucks guy said that he didn't see color, and I saw people take him to task for it, I realized that I should just keep my mouth shut until someone writes the textbook on exactly what to say, how to say it & when it's proper to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I wear my “All Lives Matter” t-shirt down at the watermelon factory and haven’t had a problem yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Have. Do. Will continue. Don't get me wrong. I avoid controversial topics with clients, strangers in bars, casual acquaintances, etc. But with people (even in a workplace setting if deemed appropriate) honestly looking for a serious conversation, then I let them know what I think. I even try to dissuade my current clients from talking any sort of politics, let alone race relations, but when pushed I tell them what I think---in the most respectful manner I can--most of the time. But I've been having blunt conversations about race with friends, family and anyone else who will listen for many years. It's appalling it has to have come to this for some to even try to understand. Edited June 20, 2020 by The Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 If you want to improve/fix/educate discussion is necessary. The forum at work is important, is it training sessions for example. The type of discussion is also important. If you just want to express your view no matter which side of the issue you are on then you are part of the problem. If you want to learn, solve, enhance relationships then 2 ears one mouth is appropriate use of your anatomy, If you truly want to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 16 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...my first question is why should ALL Caucasians feel guilt pains?......what exactly did us current crop do?.....are we responsible for the nation's history going back hundreds of years?....reparations?...what CURRENT or RECENT Caucasians enslaved RECENT black people?......care to start by telling me TODAY as to actually what the hell I'm guilty of??........ so on the heartfelt convos ? that would be “no”, then? I’m not an advocate of guilt feelings for general societal failings, non-productive. But heartfelt conversations do got to start with understanding where people are coming from - what they see as continued problems that give them an unequal playing field. Otherwise they’re kinda heartfelt monologues 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I retired a year ago, and I maintain contact with a few of my co-workers. There were a several who had similar views with me, and we would solve all the world’s problems with our conversations. As I was approaching retirement, we spent way too much time with those conversations. There were a few who were too far to the left, and a few more who were too far to the right compared to me. I don’t like this left-right classification, since I can be liberal on things like health care and education, but pre-Trump conservative on things like state’s rights and a strong military. I would carefully converse with people who I suspected that I might not agree with in order to try and understand their views. I can honestly say that I learned something from those conversations, but I don’t think they ever caused me to change my opinions significantly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: so on the heartfelt convos ? that would be “no”, then? I’m not an advocate of guilt feelings for general societal failings, non-productive. But heartfelt conversations do got to start with understanding where people are coming from - what they see as continued problems that give them an unequal playing field. Otherwise they’re kinda heartfelt monologues certainly agree Hap......but I don't think it is fair for the predicate to be, "because I'm caucasian, I MUST be guilty in some way"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: certainly agree Hap......but I don't think it is fair for the predicate to be, "because I'm caucasian, I MUST be guilty in some way"....... So I'm fishing for ways to say this without sounding finger pointy, and not knowing you I may need to ask for your help here. Overall I think "guilt" is kind of a useless emotion. If someone does something that they know, or reasonably should know, is high-risk of putting innocent people at harm - like drinking and driving - their feelings of guilt won't help or heal anyone they injured or killed in an accident while under the influence. Won't even help someone they put a damn good scare into. The only way that "guilt" is constructive, is if it would motivate the person never to do that high-risk thing again. (As I understand it though, 12-step and other programs find guilt can have the paradoxical effect with substance abuse, someone doesn't want to think about what they've done continues to abuse to "dulls the pain" of the guilt). So instead of guilt, can we talk about responsibility? I had an illuminating conversation when I was 16, with my alumna interviewer for Brown University who was a black medical student at UB at the time. I pretty much said what you said but on behalf of my grandparents, that they felt they were good people who had never treated someone differently on account of race and had in fact donated to the NAACP during the civil rights era, that they were the children of immigrants themselves and they and their parents had known discrimination, and that they felt hurt by being painted as "part of the problem". I think that's kind of what you're saying, perhaps? And she pointed out that there are two kinds of responsibility - responsibility by commission, and responsibility by omission. Let's stipulate it as true that you, @OldTimeAFLGuy, have never yourself done a single racially biased action. If a teacher, never given less "benefit of doubt" or graded a black student differently. If a manager, never made a hiring decision, or a personnel evaluation, that was influenced by race. No "microaggressions" - always treat POC you encounter in daily life with the same courtesy you extend to everyone else and not react differently to small discourtesies or problems caused by a black child vs a white child You aren't responsible by any acts of commission. Yay you! Good man! (I say this in all seriousness) At the same time, around us there is this system where in many ways black people still do not get an even break. School systems, health care and access to health care, and voting/access to voting are my personal "big 3". And like it or not, you and I and our kids are beneficiaries of that system. Then the question fairly becomes, what have I done, and what have you done, or what are we willing to do, to "be a part of the solution" to address inequities, instead of passively benefiting and having our children benefit from them? (Note I am not talking about "affirmative action" here which I view as too little, too late). Because if you aren't willing to invest at least a small regular amount of time and money in looking at what's around you and whether there's something a "reasonable man" could perceive as unfair and in need of being fixed, then it may be reasonable to suggest you (and I) have "responsibility by omission". 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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