RD 2, Pick 54: DE AJ Epenesa, University of Iowa

[Green Lightning]

13 hours ago, whorlnut said:

So now you’ve resorted to mocking since I don’t agree with you. Ok...cool...
 

We are a top ten defense already. Good offenses beat good defenses. Just ask the Rams how their number one defense made out against the packers number one offense. 

Not mocking, just equaling your fervor on disagreement.  We at not a top ten D, we are ranked 16th. KC was slowed down by better Ds this season. We made them unstoppable with a soft zone no rush and zero ability to cover TEs, at which we are the worst in the league. KC has a better D and they are the better team. And ask the Packers how they made out against the Tampa D. 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

Not mocking, just equaling your fervor on disagreement.  We at not a top ten D, we are ranked 16th. KC was slowed down by better Ds this season. We made them unstoppable with a soft zone no rush and zero ability to cover TEs, at which we are the worst in the league. KC has a better D and they are the better team. And ask the Packers how they made out against the Tampa D. 

Ok bud...whatever. 
 

The Rams had the number one defense. The Packers had the number one offense. That was my argument. It was an equal comparison on both sides. Only one team can win the SB each year. And it’s not always the best offense or the the best defense. 
 

I get it though...you think another defensive first rounder can neautralize the chiefs. I just completely disagree.  You aren’t stopping those guys. The best you can hope for is to keep up. Another offensive weapon would allow that more than another high pick on defense thay will just look silly trying to guard Kelce or hill. 

[Green Lightning]

Just now, whorlnut said:

Ok bud...whatever. 
 

The Rams had the number one defense. The Packers had the number one offense. That was my argument. It was an equal comparison on both sides. Only one team can win the SB each year. And it’s not always the best offense or the the best defense. 
 

I get it though...you think another defensive first rounder can neautralize the chiefs. I just completely disagree.  You aren’t stopping those guys. The best you can hope for is to keep up. Another offensive weapon would allow that more than another high pick on defense thay will just look silly trying to guard Kelce or hill. 

Who said 1sr rounder? We need a MLB, a 1Tech and a pass rusher to advance. On O, we need a center, a guard (maybe 2), RT and a speed RB. A better TE would be nice. With all those needs pick the BPA in the first round. You and I disagree on shrugging off the D and think we can just outscore everyone. KC has a Top 10 D and their D line abused our middle OL with just 4 down linemen, allowing for 6 DBs. That's why we lost.

[schoolhouserock]

As an Iowa Hawkeyes fan, I was able to watch AJ throughout his entire collegiate career and now through his rookie NFL season.

 

There are parallels. AJ was a rare recruit for the Hawkeyes. He was the type of player that, had his father not been a former Hawkeye, he likely would have been playing at a school with a higher probability of winning a championship.

 

Still, when he came to Iowa, despite obvious NFL-level talents, he rarely saw the field in his first season. They brought him along more slowly, starting with 3rd-and-long scenarios and working out from there.

 

To his credit, there was never a peep from AJ about the long process and he improved every single season.

 

This year, we saw a lot of the same process with AJ. He was only on the field for very specific situations and the coaches started to trust him a bit more later in the year.

 

This off-season is so important for him. I hope the parallel continues and that both body and mind make another improvement - just as we saw from his freshman to sophomore years in college. I am an absolute homer, true, but I’m confidently betting on AJ getting better.

[Richard Noggin]

16 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I think you’re right.  They should’ve allowed him to remain in the 270’s and he would’ve been able to penetrate and contain better.  He’s just not the same as a 255 lbs. Hughes.  Epenesa is more like a Phil Hansen type than a light quick burst Hughes.  Hopefully he’ll figure it out in the off season.

Love the comparison. And guess what position Phil Hansen played (I'm sure you know)? That's right: 3-4 DE. I'd like to see Epenesa gradually get his weight up closer to his college days, and lined up right over the OT more often. More of a 4-3 Over alignment, I think?

 

Or, what I really prefer, is for the Bills to say EFF dogma, and be much more multiple with their alignments. I think they've got athletes who don't precisely fit the mold of McD's preferred scheme, but might be successful in different roles (Edmunds and Epenesa mostly). Get creative. 

[HOUSE]

This is what happens when you draft by need rather then BPO

[billsfan1959]

16 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

This is what happens when you draft by need rather then BPO

 

You must be thinking of the Irish Soccer League Draft: Best player O'vailable

[NewEra]

22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, a 1st round pick that could have played had a far greater chance of helping the team than one that didn't.  This isn't hard WEO.

Cmon man.  Don’t waste any more of your time with this.  You’re arguing with a guy who said GB was a fluke in 2019, wouldn’t win 13 games in 2020 and that their run was over.  Yet they ended up right back where they were the previous year.  One game short of the super bowl.  
 

he obviously has no clue he’s talking about in this regard and has to talk nonsense in saying that draft picks couldn’t have made the 2020 packers a better then than they were.  Draft picks usually have a positive effect on a team.  In the case of the 2020 packers, their draft picks had zero effect.  

The only thing he should be talking about is that Love could be a franchise QB and that in itself. is worth not improving their team in 2020.  If he is a franchise qb and wins a super bowl, he may have a point. If he never wins a SB, than this is all for nothing and they completely wasted another year with a goat under center.  Asking “name one rookie that would’ve made the difference in the Bucs game” is discussion for 13 year olds.  We’ll say a name and you say noooooooo, prove it.  It can’t be proven.  None of this can be proven.  The only thing we KNOW for sure is that their 2020 draft picks did nothing to help them beat the Bucs and their season ended in the same spot as last year.....while the drafting of other players may have helped them. 
 

oh yeah, we also know that @Mr. WEOwas way off base with his assessment of the packers. 

[NewEra]

20 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Who said 1sr rounder? We need a MLB, a 1Tech and a pass rusher to advance. On O, we need a center, a guard (maybe 2), RT and a speed RB. A better TE would be nice. With all those needs pick the BPA in the first round. You and I disagree on shrugging off the D and think we can just outscore everyone. KC has a Top 10 D and their D line abused our middle OL with just 4 down linemen, allowing for 6 DBs. That's why we lost.

We don’t NEED upgrades at all of those positions to beat the chiefs.  We needed a better game plan from our DC, OC and HC.

 

the chiefs didn’t just abuse us with 4 down lineman.....they blitzed a lot. We didn’t adapt. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:25 PM, Richard Noggin said:

 

No matter what, Epenesa will never be "small" by NFL standards. He's long and strong at any weight. 

Is he “down to get the friction on”?

 

Baby got Back 🎶

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

We don’t NEED upgrades at all of those positions to beat the chiefs.  We needed a better game plan from our DC, OC and HC.

 

the chiefs didn’t just abuse us with 4 down lineman.....they blitzed a lot. We didn’t adapt. 

Reading Joe B's All 22,  confirmed what I saw. Our middle OL had zero push in the run game and was pushed around by the base KC DL. Chris Jones abused Mongo and Morse and Clark did likewise to Darryl Williams. We need OL to progress.

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Reading Joe B's All 22,  confirmed what I saw. Our middle OL had zero push in the run game and was pushed around by the base KC DL. Chris Jones abused Mongo and Morse and Clark did likewise to Darryl Williams. We need OL to progress.

Chris Jones abuses every OL in the league. He’s a future 1st ballot ball of famer who lays waste to every OL in front of him. 
 

i agree that we need to retool the OL, but with a better game plan on both sides of the ball and going for TDs instead of Fgs, I feel we could’ve beat the chiefs. We played the game they were begging us to play.  We paid with an L

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Cmon man.  Don’t waste any more of your time with this.  You’re arguing with a guy who said GB was a fluke in 2019, wouldn’t win 13 games in 2020 and that their run was over.  Yet they ended up right back where they were the previous year.  One game short of the super bowl.  
 

he obviously has no clue he’s talking about in this regard and has to talk nonsense in saying that draft picks couldn’t have made the 2020 packers a better then than they were.  Draft picks usually have a positive effect on a team.  In the case of the 2020 packers, their draft picks had zero effect.  

The only thing he should be talking about is that Love could be a franchise QB and that in itself. is worth not improving their team in 2020.  If he is a franchise qb and wins a super bowl, he may have a point. If he never wins a SB, than this is all for nothing and they completely wasted another year with a goat under center.  Asking “name one rookie that would’ve made the difference in the Bucs game” is discussion for 13 year olds.  We’ll say a name and you say noooooooo, prove it.  It can’t be proven.  None of this can be proven.  The only thing we KNOW for sure is that their 2020 draft picks did nothing to help them beat the Bucs and their season ended in the same spot as last year.....while the drafting of other players may have helped them. 
 

oh yeah, we also know that @Mr. WEOwas way off base with his assessment of the packers. 

Rodgers abs LaFleur blew the Packers chance at the SB.

 

No matter how long you go on about some fantasy rookie who they didn’t draft, you cant change the fact that they were on the threshold of the SB...and choked.  They blew it,  HC and QB.  

Everything that happened before that game (improved OffenseImproved Defense,  MVP career best stats) also happened without that 1st rounder.  You also can’t change those facts either.

[Fan in Chicago]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

We don’t NEED upgrades at all of those positions to beat the chiefs.  We needed a better game plan from our DC, OC and HC.

 

the chiefs didn’t just abuse us with 4 down lineman.....they blitzed a lot. We didn’t adapt. 

Yes we do. D scheme may be one thing but the coaches can only scheme around talent till a certain point. When you are down to the four best in the league, the flaws in personnel showed up. We need more talent at key positions

[vincec]

On 1/30/2021 at 12:08 PM, Green Lightning said:

Who said 1sr rounder? We need a MLB, a 1Tech and a pass rusher to advance. On O, we need a center, a guard (maybe 2), RT and a speed RB. A better TE would be nice. With all those needs pick the BPA in the first round. You and I disagree on shrugging off the D and think we can just outscore everyone. KC has a Top 10 D and their D line abused our middle OL with just 4 down linemen, allowing for 6 DBs. That's why we lost.

This is really the model the Bills should follow on defense. Try to improve the pass rush and add speed on the back end. If you can get a rush with four and cover with 7, including 5 or 6 DBs, they you are going to be tough to pass against, even for the Chiefs. Take your lumps vs the run and try to outscore running teams.

Edited January 31, 2021 by vincec

[Mat68]

So they asked him to come in light.  He came in around 260.  He came in lighter than even they wanted.  If he can come in next year in the mid 270's he will a very good player.  He flashed a bit.  Under a regular offseason he wouldnt have gotten as light as he got.  Knowing where he needs to be I expect no issue.

[Green Lightning]

On 1/31/2021 at 3:54 PM, vincec said:

This is really the model the Bills should follow on defense. Try to improve the pass rush and add speed on the back end. If you can get a rush with four and cover with 7, including 5 or 6 DBs, they you are going to be tough to pass against, even for the Chiefs. Take your lumps vs the run and try to outscore running teams.

Can't agree more.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:05 PM, Mat68 said:

So they asked him to come in light.  He came in around 260.  He came in lighter than even they wanted.  If he can come in next year in the mid 270's he will a very good player.  He flashed a bit.  Under a regular offseason he wouldnt have gotten as light as he got.  Knowing where he needs to be I expect no issue.

It's not just his weight, he was letting guys get into his body and control him and that's more of a mental thing. Hapless had posted earlier in this thread (in the single digit pages I think) his pros and cons during the pre-draft e v a l. One of the items in the con was him having trouble recognizing the play which is what I saw at times this year. He needs to be able to stop guys from getting into him and until he does that it won't matter what weight he is. Hopefully the playing time he got will help him elevate his game. 

 

I am thinking he can do it, and I think if he does he will exceed the expectations of most folks on this board. 

[Chuck Schick]

8 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

It's not just his weight, he was letting guys get into his body and control him and that's more of a mental thing. Hapless had posted earlier in this thread (in the single digit pages I think) his pros and cons during the pre-draft e v a l. One of the items in the con was him having trouble recognizing the play which is what I saw at times this year. He needs to be able to stop guys from getting into him and until he does that it won't matter what weight he is. Hopefully the playing time he got will help him elevate his game. 

 

I am thinking he can do it, and I think if he does he will exceed the expectations of most folks on this board. 

Playing DE in this system seems to require more discipline than just pinning your ears back and getting to the QB, and this is probably why we saw what you're describing.  If he was stressed about keeping contain, it would be easy to let that Olineman get into you on a pass play.  He will get coached up and play much more confidently next season I am sure.

[Green Lightning]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:52 PM, whorlnut said:

 

 Good offenses beat good defenses. Just ask the Rams how their number one defense made out against the packers number one offense. 

I rest my case after the best offense just got B slapped by a great D in the SB. Draft D Line or Oline. It starts up front. 

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

I rest my case after the best offense just got B slapped by a great D in the SB. Draft D Line or Oline. It starts up front. 

So we can ignore that the number one defense lost to the number one offense earlier in the playoffs. Ok...whatever supports your stance.

 

We get star back next year and that addition will raise the level of play with the players we already have on defense. It will allow Oliver to eat from star taking up doubles. That opens up a lot for our pass rush. 

[Solomon Grundy]

25 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So we can ignore that the number one defense lost to the number one offense earlier in the playoffs. Ok...whatever supports your stance.

 

We get star back next year and that addition will raise the level of play with the players we already have on defense. It will allow Oliver to eat from star taking up doubles. That opens up a lot for our pass rush. 

I’d still like to see the Bills draft 2 more DL. Pro days are going to be crucial. Wanna see what type of condition Tyler Shelvin is in. At 30 if Zaven Collins isn’t there, Daviyon Nixon is another intriguing prospect.

[White Linen]

28 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So we can ignore that the number one defense lost to the number one offense earlier in the playoffs. Ok...whatever supports your stance.

 

We get star back next year and that addition will raise the level of play with the players we already have on defense. It will allow Oliver to eat from star taking up doubles. That opens up a lot for our pass rush. 

 

Have you seen Star play?  He does not take on double teams and doesn't open things up for anyone.   I have the clips to prove it,  dozens of them. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

6 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Have you seen Star play?  He does not take on double teams and doesn't open things up for anyone.   I have the clips to prove it,  dozens of them. 

Yeah, Star is like a backup qb right now. Unfortunately we don't have anyone that makes the players around him better in the front 7. We do need at least one if we're going to contend at the highest levels. Don't think epenesa is that guy either.

[BillMafia716ix]

48 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Yeah, Star is like a backup qb right now. Unfortunately we don't have anyone that makes the players around him better in the front 7. We do need at least one if we're going to contend at the highest levels. Don't think epenesa is that guy either.

Epenesa showed flashes this year. I think he’ll be decent. Star is very overrated. don’t understand the love affair with him

[billieve420]

 

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Star seems to be the hope of the offseason. It’s very strange. He’s an average at best player that people seem to think is some sort of all pro future HOFer. 

 

If anything it will allow guys to not play out of position like they had to this year. Star is not a world beater but we definitely missed him this year. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by billieve420

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

I rest my case after the best offense just got B slapped by a great D in the SB. Draft D Line or Oline. It starts up front. 

Losing Fisher late against us , with Scwartz already down,  really messed up the Chiefs ability to protect.  They got abused tonight. 

Thought this was a much bigger story going in that nobody talked about. 

A big reason I bet TB and the under🤑

6 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

 

If anything it will allow guys to not play out of position like they had to this year. Star is not a world beater but we definitely missed him this year. 

He's a huge part of this specific scheme though. There's a reason he was one of our 1st and most expensive FA acquisition from our front office.  

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Star seems to be the hope of the offseason. It’s very strange. He’s an average at best player that people seem to think is some sort of all pro future HOFer. 

 

On top of that, this should have been the year to cut Star.  The opt out makes him the off season problem.   

 

Hes Beane's biggest mistake by a wide margin. 

[DJB]

I still think this was the wrong pick and should have been JK Dobbins like I wanted. 

 

We wouldn't have a glaring need at RB right now. 

[SoCal Deek]

On 2/7/2021 at 8:42 PM, ScottLaw said:

Star seems to be the hope of the offseason. It’s very strange. He’s an average at best player that people seem to think is some sort of all pro future HOFer. 

I don’t think anyone believes Star is the “answer” but he is a free asset that comes back into the fold without losing, trading, or spending anything. And, he’s better at NT than what they had in 2020. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I don’t think anyone believes Star is the “answer” but he is a free asset that comes back into the fold without losing, trading, or spending anything. And, he’s better at NT than what they had in 2020. 

 

How can Star be a "free asset" when he carries a cap hit of $7.6M (fully guaranteed) and can not be cut without incurring an additional cap hit, totaling $12.3M?

 

Perhaps you mean "an asset we've already committed to so no additional cost"?

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How can Star be a "free asset" when he carries a cap hit of $7.6M (fully guaranteed) and can not be cut without incurring an additional cap hit, totaling $12.3M?

 

Perhaps you mean "an asset we've already committed to so no additional cost"?

I think that’s what he meant

[BuffaloRebound]

I think Epenesa surprises this year.  He was starting to flash at end of year.  No real offseason program and the weight thing was a little bizarre but he did what they asked him to do.  I could see him being a good rotational guy in 2021.  Good enough to drop a higher priced vet and use the money elsewhere.  

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I still think this was the wrong pick and should have been JK Dobbins like I wanted. 

 

We wouldn't have a glaring need at RB right now. 

Nobody complained about that because we got moss in the Third and we knew that we needed a replacement at defense end

 

But a couple of things happened along the way there Singleterry under performed in Moss got hurt

 

AJE played well in spots and didn’t get on the field until later in the year the hope is Espinoza gets better in his second here

 

Give me Naji Harris and it’s all forgiven

[DJB]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Nobody complained about that because we got moss in the Third and we knew that we needed a replacement at defense end

 

But a couple of things happened along the way there Singleterry under performed in Moss got hurt

 

AJE played well in spots and didn’t get on the field until later in the year the hope is Espinoza gets better in his second here

 

Give me Naji Harris and it’s all forgiven

 

To me its now a waste however. 

 

Epenesa to me wasn't great last year and Dobbins would have filled the RB need that we glaringly have. 

 

Now we still have a RB need and have to hope Harris is there. Instead we could have had Dobbins, and use our 1st this year to select a quality player to fill a different need. 

 

[DCOrange]

I think I wanted Uche, Fulton, or Ashtyn Davis at our spot last year. I preferred Moss over Dobbins anyways.

[BuffaloRebound]

I think Moss gives us what we need at RB next year.  He’s not gonna break any long runs, but he can catch, block, and get you tough yards.  Maybe take a chance on a guy like Marlin Mack who’s coming back from an injury.  I don’t think drafting Dobbins would’ve moved the needle very much and I still think Epenesa could blossom.  

[GunnerBill]

On 2/8/2021 at 5:01 AM, billieve420 said:

 

 

If anything it will allow guys to not play out of position like they had to this year. Star is not a world beater but we definitely missed him this year. 

 

We missed Star not because he is great, he's not. He is an average starting NFL 1 tech. But we missed him because the drop off is significant behind him. For most of the season Harrison Phillips was awful, though he played better the last 3 or 4 games and the other guys were all 3 techs playing out of position. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, DJB said:

To me its now a waste however. 

Epenesa to me wasn't great last year and Dobbins would have filled the RB need that we glaringly have.

 

PSA that in the opinion of some who spend a lot of time watching film, no running back could have filled the run game need we so glaringly have unless they somehow managed to persuade the line, TE etc to run block better in front of them.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I think I wanted Uche, Fulton, or Ashtyn Davis at our spot last year. I preferred Moss over Dobbins anyways.

 

Yea I wanted Fulton.