RD 2, Pick 54: DE AJ Epenesa, University of Iowa

[billspro]

14 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

I saw Epenesa being compared to Schobel and I died laughing. He is NOTHING Schobel.

 

The best comparison you can come up with is Clyde Simmons. Simmons was a power player and was a little bigger than Epenesa is now, but their playing styles are very similar if you watch the tape.

The comparison I was using for him was Aaron Smith of the Steelers. He is a guy that probably won’t be super flashy but will play for a long time. 

[Trogdor]

As long as he sets the edge it works. After Shaq it was hard to find anyone in position last year. 

[Rampage]

He reminds of Cameron Heyward. Big, powerful DE. Not quick, not flashy. But will bullrush the lights out of you. Also like how he put Austin Jackson in his place as well when they played.

[Ralonzo]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Based on these three standards, Brandon Beane was able to get a 1st Round prospect about 25-30 spots later than he was expected to go.  It also addressed one of the team's biggest future question-marks, since both current starters are over 30 years old.  

 

Beane gets criticized for overpaying for Diggs to be WR1, instead of trying to get WR1 in this draft.

 

What would the criticism be if he had just drafted Epenesa at 22, and used 54 to acquire Diggs? Same result, different roads.

[mathja]

I think that for a lot of the people who are down on this pick it’s partly psychological. The Bills didn’t pick in the first round, so in a way it might feel like Epenesa was their first round pick. I think he’s almost being judged like a 1st round pick when he wasn’t. 
 

Imagine for a moment that the Diggs trade wasn’t made and Ceedee Lamb slipped a few more spots and the Bills picked Lamb first and then Epenesa fell into their laps in the 2nd. I think the rhetoric would sound very different. 
 

By the way, I believe Diggs will be better than Lamb, especially over the next 3 years, and I absolutely love Epenesa and had my fingers crossed for him the entire time, never imagining he would actually fall. He’s an absolute beast. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by mathja

[BillsFan17]

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Ga boy]

16 minutes ago, mathja said:

I think that for a lot of the people who are down on this pick it’s partly psychological. The Bills didn’t pick in the first round, so in a way it might feel like Epenesa was their first round pick. I think he’s almost being judged like a 1st round pick when he wasn’t. 
 

Imagine for a moment that the Diggs trade wasn’t made and Ceedee Lamb slipped a few more spots and the Bills picked Lamb first and then Epenesa fell into their laps in the 2nd. I think the rhetoric would sound very different. 
 

By the way, I believe Diggs will be better than Lamb, especially over the next 3 years, and I absolutely live Epenesa and had my fingers crossed for him the entire time, never imagining he would actually fall. He’s an absolute beast. 

Yes, dude fell in our laps on day 2.  Hope some QBs fall in his lap!!  Hope he’s got some nasty.  I think he’ll play with a chip on his shoulder like Thurmond.  He was our best choice for our team at 54.  Go Bills!!

[YoloinOhio]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:30 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Wonder if they still would’ve picked him if they had resigned Shaq.

I don’t think they would have. I heard him described as Shaq with a better work ethic and higher ceiling. They essentially upgrade that position instead of paying Shaq 30 mill. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think the displeasure/concern is he isn't super althetic and timed pretty poorly across the board. 

Seems like an upgrade to Lawson to me. 

[Dkollidas]

17 hours ago, Motor26 said:

This. They still don’t have much speed off the edge. 

I believe that’s somewhat purposeful. They want their ends to set the edge and their pass rush to come from the interior more often than not. My guess is it was originally to utilize Kyle Williams which has now turned into utilizing Ed Oliver and likely Epenesa inside as well. 
 

not that they don’t want ANY rush from the edge, I just believe they want to be proficient in setting an edge so that when they play a guy like Jackson, or Mahomes, they can contain that aspect of said QB and force them to make throws (especially Jackson).

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I believe that’s somewhat purposeful. They want their ends to set the edge and their pass rush to come from the interior more often than not. My guess is it was originally to utilize Kyle Williams which has now turned into utilizing Ed Oliver and likely Epenesa inside as well. 
 

not that they don’t want ANY rush from the edge, I just believe they want to be proficient in setting an edge so that when they play a guy like Jackson, or Mahomes, they can contain that aspect of said QB and force them to make throws (especially Jackson).

especially when they can bring the blitz from anywhere as long as the front four are doing their jobs. and the back end can remain steady.
Coverage sacks are fine by me : )

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I believe that’s somewhat purposeful. They want their ends to set the edge and their pass rush to come from the interior more often than not. My guess is it was originally to utilize Kyle Williams which has now turned into utilizing Ed Oliver and likely Epenesa inside as well. 
 

not that they don’t want ANY rush from the edge, I just believe they want to be proficient in setting an edge so that when they play a guy like Jackson, or Mahomes, they can contain that aspect of said QB and force them to make throws (especially Jackson).

Quinton Jefferson can also play  on the edge and the pressure up the middle can spring Tremaine Edmunds to the QB who has big time speed 

[Buffalo Junction]

23 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

The best comparison you can come up with is Clyde Simmons. Simmons was a power player and was a little bigger than Epenesa is now, but their playing styles are very similar if you watch the tape.

Now all we have to do is find a Reggie White to put on the other side. 

[Prospector]

Just thinking:

Hughes-Jefferson-Oliver-Addison

Epenesa-Phillips-Star-Murphy

Vernon Butler and Darryl Johnson as reserves.... that’s one heck of a rotation!

 

[Punching Bag]

On 4/25/2020 at 8:37 AM, inthebuff said:

I really like this pick. 

 

Again, not that my opinion matters.  What really matters is what he will do on the field.  It seems to me that he's already an accomplished player in the Big 10 against some of the more accomplished tackles of that particular league, including his own teammate.  Those guys rated him as the toughest guy they'd ever faced.  Looking at his past college performances,  where he was drafted and where he was projected to be drafted, I'm even happier with this pick.  I just read an article where SI had placed the over under on where they (and Vegas) felt at 29.5.  The Bills got him at 54.   1st round value at 2nd round price.  

 

I think Beane and McDermott hit the nail on the head when they told him to use this as a chip on his shoulder.  If anyone criticizes the lack of elation at being drafted by the Bills at #54, then they do not understand the competitive nature of most of these players.  

 

They ought to get Thurman in to talk to him. 

A 2nd round pick which was passed by many teams but picked by Bills to be their first draft pick.

Thurman will make him understand it is not where he is drafted but what he does if team believes in him.

 

Also I think his family will be partying game day at Rich Stadium Ralph Wilson Stadium New Era Stadium.

 

[Motor26]

1 hour ago, WorstTEever81 said:

Just thinking:

Hughes-Jefferson-Oliver-Addison

Epenesa-Phillips-Star-Murphy

Vernon Butler and Darryl Johnson as reserves.... that’s one heck of a rotation!

 

They’re not paying Butler to be a reserve. They’re paying him to be in the rotation. With Jefferson’s ability to play some end, I think Murphy is going to have a tough time making the team. 

[Punching Bag]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:03 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

Don’t think it’s smoke as much as some guys just being wrong.  I highly doubt some sly scout was purposely pumping out disinformation hype about Zay Jones so he’d be overdrafted...

 

They got the scoop from his WR coach who Bills hired and the problem was they believed the hype.  That coach has been bouncing between teams in NFL and college and should not have been relied upon but Coach McD did not have a strong offense coaching staff that year.   He actually cut a better WR coach with his dump the baby with bath water attitude.

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, WorstTEever81 said:

Just thinking:

Hughes-Jefferson-Oliver-Addison

Epenesa-Phillips-Star-Murphy

Vernon Butler and Darryl Johnson as reserves.... that’s one heck of a rotation!

 

Only thing is Jefferson is more a 3T DT/DE, and I have a feeling Harry will be seeing more time as a 1T to spell Star - so I’d flip those two in your breakdown. Can’t go wrong either way.

 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Butler worked in more than we expect if either Star or Harry aren’t able to sustain. Of course, there will be the one-off snap where we see Epenesa, Oliver, Jefferson/other pass rush DT, and Hughes in obvious passing situations. Lots of ways they can work the rotation. 

[beerme1]

On 4/26/2020 at 10:42 AM, WizdomCalling said:

Very Aaron Schobel ish to me and not just because of #94 

 

(Idk if this point has been made, didn't feel like reading 37 pages just to make sure. Please don't roast me if someone else already said it ?)

 

 

You should be roasted for not reading the prior 37 pages. Not your take.

[beerme1]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:21 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think the displeasure/concern is he isn't super althetic and timed pretty poorly across the board. 

 

I am not displeased!

[Richard Noggin]

11 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

 

You should be roasted for not reading the prior 37 pages. Not your take.

It's also just a terrible take in the first place. Schobel was undersized and lacked power. Epenesa is big and powerful. And without reading the 20 or so pages I've missed, I'm hoping this has been pointed out repeatedly. I truly don't understand the comparison.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He forces so many fumbles because he’s always looking to go for the ball. My type of DE. 

[beerme1]

44 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

It's also just a terrible take in the first place. Schobel was undersized and lacked power. Epenesa is big and powerful. And without reading the 20 or so pages I've missed, I'm hoping this has been pointed out repeatedly. I truly don't understand the comparison.

 

You should be roasted for not reading the prior 20 pages or so. Not your take. ?

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, WorstTEever81 said:

Just thinking:

Hughes-Jefferson-Oliver-Addison

Epenesa-Phillips-Star-Murphy

Vernon Butler and Darryl Johnson as reserves.... that’s one heck of a rotation!

 

IMO it’s more:

Hughes-Butler-Oliver-Epenesa

Addison-Star-Jefferson-Murphy

Johnson and Phillips in reserve

 

If you really don’t want a team to be able to run the ball:

Jefferson-Star-Butler-Epenesa

If Murphy gets cut (I think it is likely) you either see more Johnson at End or Phillips at 3 tech with Jefferson at end

 

Sub package you might see something like:

Hughes-Jefferson/Epenesa-Oliver-Addison

[John from Riverside]

You win games by controlling the lines...mostly

 

The bills understand that

[Mat68]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, Augie said:

 

I have to believe that the drop off in DE from round 2 to round 3 was greater than the drop off in RB....because Dobbins sure did look like a sweet pick!  I wonder how they had Moss rated vs Dobbins? These guys know infinitely more about this than I do, and they have a great track record, so I trust this was the best way to go. 

 

I bet some of Beane’s angst leading up to the Moss pick was because he knew it was a gamble to go DE first. 

 

 

.

I bet Dobbins and Moss were similar.  Epenesa would have been the 1 guy sticking way out. 

 

1.  De is a more important position than Rb. 

 

2.  Almost everyone rated Espenesa 20 to 30 overall. 

 

3.  The draft was very thin at De and pretty deep at Rb.

 

4.  Moss does not have the deep speed as Dobbins, he does make more defenders miss.  

 

At the start of day 2, Buffalo was primed for a solid player to fall to them.  I think Epenesa was that player.  The picks of Epenesa and Moss are not sexy, they are geat fits and provided the greatest value.  On a playoff team with the majority of key players returning Buffalo added 2 guys who will be on the feild alot day 1.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I bet Dobbins and Moss were similar.  Epenesa would have been the 1 guy sticking way out. 

 

1.  De is a more important position than Rb. 

 

2.  Almost everyone rated Espenesa 20 to 30 overall. 

 

3.  The draft was very thin at De and pretty deep at Rb.

 

4.  Moss does not have the deep speed as Dobbins, he does make more defenders miss.  

 

At the start of day 2, Buffalo was primed for a solid player to fall to them.  I think Epenesa was that player.  The picks of Epenesa and Moss are not sexy, they are geat fits and provided the greatest value.  On a playoff team with the majority of key players returning Buffalo added 2 guys who will be on the feild alot day 1.

 

I agree and I’m happy with our draft, but I can already hear the folks coming out of the woodwork when Dobbins starts tearing it up next season. Part of that will be because he landed on the Ravens and not the Bengals, but that will be lost on the pitchfork crowd. 

 

I was pleased to hear that Moss ran faster at his pro day. Teams need “solid” players. You can’t have an entire team consisting of Neon  Deions. Setting the edge, getting the tough 3rd and 2 or picking up the blitz is like defense and rebounding in basketball. You need those guys even if it’s not sexy. 

[Mat68]

I think Espenesa and Moss have massive upside.  Epenesa is only 21.  He dominted the big 10 and drafted OTs.  He could become Cam Jordan or Michael Bennet for us.  Thats more than just solid.  Moss has the ability to be Hunt or Kamara quality.  I think people are under selling both there ability and potential.

[WizdomCalling]

16 hours ago, beerme1 said:

I was not reading 37 pages lol

 

You should be roasted for not reading the prior 37 pages. Not your take.

 

[beerme1]

4 hours ago, WizdomCalling said:

 

 

 

Ha ha looks like you fixed it for yourself lol

[Logic]

Just got done watching his highlights.

 

Reminds me a lot of another #94 who never put up huge sack numbers but still dominated and made 5 Pro Bowls: Justin Smith.

[Beast]

This may not be (or may be!) a popular take but I actually liked what I saw from Epenesa as the year went on. Has some speed and started to get near plays in the backfield late in the year.

 

I think an off-season with camps is going to do this kid wonders. Calling it now, Epenesa will be the Bills most improved player next season.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Beast

[Real McClappy]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

This may not (or may be!) a popular take but I actually liked what I saw from Epenesa as the year went on. Has some speed and started to geht near plays in the backfield late in the year.

 

I think an off-season with camps is going to do this kid wonders. Calling it now, Epenesa will be the Bills most improved player next season.

 

 

 

He did as the year went on. He came in a bit lightweight but started to beef up as the year went on. 

I truly think he will have breakout season next year and agree 100% with you. 

[Rc2catch]

11 minutes ago, Beast said:

This may not be (or may be!) a popular take but I actually liked what I saw from Epenesa as the year went on. Has some speed and started to get near plays in the backfield late in the year.

 

I think an off-season with camps is going to do this kid wonders. Calling it now, Epenesa will be the Bills most improved player next season.

 

 

 

I mentioned in a comment before he seemed to have a real knack for jumping really high and having hands up on passes where he had no shot at a sack. He may end up getting a few interception assists if he gets hands on a ball 

[WideNine]

29 minutes ago, Beast said:

This may not (or may be!) a popular take but I actually liked what I saw from Epenesa as the year went on. Has some speed and started to geht near plays in the backfield late in the year.

 

I think an off-season with camps is going to do this kid wonders. Calling it now, Epenesa will be the Bills most improved player next season.

 

 

 

 

As many of us noted here on the Wall, Epenesa was playing far too light early on.

 

In college they like guys to pack on the pounds, but the Bills were looking for more balance and speed. I am glad Beane addressed this in his end of season presser. They had asked him to drop more of the body fat and Epenesa took extreme measures and dropped what looked like 3 weight classes. We saw how he was getting blown off the edges especially on runs and so did the Bills coaches so they asked him to put some more weight back on.

 

I think with his frame he can handle getting up to around 270-275 with a good strength and nutrition plan without losing too much speed. I don't think they would want to see him any heavier than that. Originally I had not watched much of what he did in Iowa, but early on I thought he played a bit too long and upright for a stick-figure end. Over the second half of the year you could see that good burst/first step with surprising balance and leverage. He uses his long arms and hands well to fend off blockers and seems to have natural instincts diagnosing plays, tracking the ball, and taking the right gaps.

 

If he can stay healthy I think this kid has a good ceiling and will work out well for us so kudos to Beane and the scouting staff.

 

I like what we have in Darryl Johnson too. He came in really raw so has a longer runway, but he has that prototypical build and speed and strength you want in a DE. He just has not had a lot of coaching up. He has shown in flashes and I think he just needs more playing time. I think he will get more playing time as Beane is forced to trim the DL roster this offseason.

 

Apparently Trent was usually inactive because Johnson is a beast on ST and they also had Johnson as an emergency DE if someone in their rotation got dinged.

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by WideNine

[Bangarang]

I still don’t mind the Epenesa pick.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Hopefully the off-season conditioning program can add weight/muscle.  I think he's going to surprise us!!

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I still don’t mind the Epenesa pick.

Me neither

 

Espenesa flashed.....he is going to end up being a solid defensive linemen just not great

 

Need to continue to upgrade the position