Article: McDermott Concerned about PSE Dysfunction

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Yes but both paint completely opposite pictures.

 

Do they? That is not my reading at all. 

[17years&waiting]

I haven't read the article and I haven't read every page in this thread, but I think I get the idea.

 

A couple thoughts:

 

1) Is it really possible to make money on any of the minor league teams (Amerks, Knighthawks, Bandits)?  I think the best run minor league teams make barely any money.  The Rochester Red Wings are publicly owned, so we can see their financials.  That's considered a really well run sports team and I think they do well to tread.  So, I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 teams lose money.

 

2) Buffalo is still one of the poorest, smallest markets in major league sports.  It has very little corporate presence, so the team can't charge top dollars for suites, club seats, etc.  I'm sure in-stadium/arena advertising is much less than other major league teams.  Same with market size.  The Sabres may have massive TV ratings, but it's still a tiny market.  The small ratings in New York, Boston, Washington, etc. may equal out to similar amounts of fan engagement.  (I admittedly don't know how good ratings are for any of these teams, just saying).  It may take really exceptional management to make money under these conditions for an NHL franchise.  Add in many years of mediocre or poor performance on-ice, and losing money doesn't seem surprising.

 

The NFL is a slightly different animal, with shared revenue (Thanks, Ralph), but the challenges of the Buffalo/WNY market are real.  I can't judge how well PSE is run, but it may take absolute top-of-the line leadership to ever turn a profit.  Just trying to add a different perspective.

[billsfan89]

Ownership is everything in sports, if you have good ownership you will eventually find success. If Pegula gets cheap or something spills over onto the Bill's operations it is concerning. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Do they? That is not my reading at all. 

 

One highlights the emotion of disgruntled employees and casts aspersions. The other highlights the economic picture.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

One highlights the emotion of disgruntled employees and casts aspersions. The other highlights the economic picture.

 

I agree except "casts aspersions" which I am not sure it does. It highlights the personal angle and the emotions and one chooses to focus specifically on the business implications of covid. 

 

They are not contradictory. 

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I stopped at Tim Graham. Hacks gonna hack.

 

He's a commie so he worked in the proletariat crap.

[machine gun kelly]

Pass on this one other than yes, my sister works for the Sabres so worried for her, and I’m also laid off given the pandemic so sucks, but if it weren’t for the Pegulas, we wouldn’t have sports in Buffalo anymore.

 

I hope they find a solution to minimize the impact, but companies retract during these horrible recessions, bordering on a depression if not improved, and my hopes are not there.

[Coach Tuesday]

53 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You can’t complain about media narratives and then make zero effort to control said narratives. If that’s what the Pegulas (and you) are looking for, that’s asking for the media to carry their water for them.

You mean something like State Media, er, Fox News?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, CommonCents said:

I remember you saying this when she took over and you got flamed a bit. I’m still with you on this one! 

Ha ha, I think I said something to the tune of “I’m more qualified than she was. I was half-joking but I did take some heat. FWIW, it was probably true but there were 30+ people in the building way more qualified than me. That was kind of the point. If you were to rank those 100+ employees in terms of “who is most qualified to lead this” she wouldn’t crack the top 50. Terry wouldn’t either.
 

Now, that’s changed some because there are a bunch of years of experience there. There are still probably 10 or so people though, that they employ (or at least did) better suited to run the show. Those are the people that they should be embracing and looking towards instead of alienating. 

[chris heff]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree except "casts aspersions" which I am not sure it does. It highlights the personal angle and the emotions and one chooses to focus specifically on the business implications of covid. 

 

They are not contradictory. 

“What that told me,” said one current PSE employee, “is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.”
 

the definition of aspersion

Edited April 20, 2020 by chris heff

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

If only they gave Kim Pegula the chance to make a statement for her side. For shame.

 

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Main story

Kim rebuttal

Even if they did though it would be a statement composed by that guy that’s the head of PR for the Bills. He’s REALLY good from my understanding. So, her “rebuttal” would basically be a well thought out response create by a seasoned PR person. It may or may not be what she actually thinks but it will be a dynamite response because the person doing it is very good at their job. Imagine if they had a whole bunch of people like that? They certainly wouldn’t be here...

[CountDorkula]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Hack goes and talks to fired/laid off employees. Said fired/laid off employees have beef and whine about "nepotism" to Hack. Hack writes salacious piece because, as I said, hacks gonna hack.

 

 

 

Except some for the people he talked to still work for PSE and the Bills and the Sabres, but hye hacks gona hack....

 

I will say this, there is more than meets the eye here.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This of course is true and I don't read this article as saying "the Pegulas are terrible they should get lost." I read it as they are facing some challenging financial times in their businesses away from the Bills but including the Sabres, this was already the case before coronavirus and while that isn't entirely their fault they haven't done a great job as leaders of communicating that message sensitively to staff who fear for, and in some cases have lost, their jobs. I think the sense you get as I said to @Kirby Jackson is that so far the Bills have managed to be slightly sheltered from the worst of that but there is a risk if the situation deteriorates there may be knock on effects.

 

As a non-hockey fan the bolded is frankly all I care about. I'd prefer they sell the Sabres but that's easy for me to say.

I think that’s fair but the NFL in general is pretty “idiot-proof.” They print cash. As crazy as it sounds, typically, NFL teams are the worst on the business side. It goes NBA (by a lot), MLB, NHL, and then NFL. The NBA has a lot of money and is very, very cutting edge. They do something and everyone follows. They have the $ to pay the top end people. Baseball is similar but with 81 home games the quality of life for baseball employees sucks. That’s why the top people migrate to the NBA. There are never 15 straight home games that require you to be away from your family. The NHL is closer to the NBA in terms of what they are trying to do but with a fraction of the revenue. It’s tough for the NHL to pay the salaries required because they don’t have the revenues. The NFL is in the enviable position of being able to react to everything. They don’t ever have to lead because they print cash. They let the other leagues “guinea pig” everything and if it works they adopt it. They react while the other leagues have to be more proactive. 
 

Hope that makes sense...

Edited April 20, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[CountDorkula]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I read the article. It is worrying. My conclusion was they need to sell the Sabres but then that is easier for me to say as a non-hockey fan and non-Buffalonian but their core business is facing tough times, the property business similarly and the Sabres are a huge cash drain. 

 

The Bills are the cash generator at the moment. If some sandbags need to be thrown overboard start with the loss making teams. 

 

I think there is some link, yep. 

 

SO most have that backwards.

 

The Sabres, there are maybe 1 or 2 places you could move that team to and they would do better. The Sabres are in virtual no threat to move.

 

The Bills on the other hand. Cities would be lining up to score an NFL team. The Bills would be more profitable in just about any other city.

 

Buffalo/NY wont or cant afford to build the Peguals an NFL stadium

Another city could be persuaded to do so.

[Kirby Jackson]

59 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

This really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

 

Just read the piece about the Sabres prior to the season and the Pegulas comments on last season.... they said something to the effect of “they weren’t that bad, they won’t 10 in a row to start the season”..... as if the rest of the season never happened.?

 

They are clueless sports owners who may have got lucky with McBeane, IMO.

Oh, McDermott and Beane have masked A LOT. We are very, very, very fortunate to have top end leadership on the football side. I hope that they recognize this and open up the checkbook for them.

Just now, CountDorkula said:

 

SO most have that backwards.

 

The Sabres, there are maybe 1 or 2 places you could move that team to and they would do better. The Sabres are in virtual no threat to move.

 

The Bills on the other hand. Cities would be lining up to score an NFL team. The Bills would be more profitable in just about any other city.

 

Buffalo/NY wont or cant afford to build the Peguals an NFL stadium

Another city could be persuaded to do so.

The bolded just isn’t true. If push comes to shove they will 100% be in. Public/private partnerships are the norm. The Pegula’s will put in their share and the state will too. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The bolded just isn’t true. If push comes to shove they will 100% be in. Public/private partnerships are the norm. The Pegula’s will put in their share and the state will too. 

 

I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county?

I think that’s fair and probably true. There will be some concessions with the current state of the economy.

[CountDorkula]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county?

The NFL does not and wont stop, I think that is fairly evident as we head for the draft.

 

If anything they will be more aggressive to make up for lost revenues.

[Flip Johnson]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is a good piece of journalism. 

 

He talked to a lot of people, many of whom have an ax to grind.

PSE is probably overextended and they are going to be hit by the recession just like everyone else and that means people will lose jobs.

The "toxic culture" accusations really weren't supported that I could see.

[Steptide]

I'm late to the discussion here, but I don't necessarily think it'd be a terrible thing if the Pegulas sold the Sabres and made the bills their primary focus 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Steptide

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'm late to the discussion here, but I don't necessarily think it'd be a terrible thing if the Pegulas sold the Sabres and made the bills their primary focus 

 

Even if that means the Sabres leave Buffalo?

[CaptnCoke11]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

The Pegs are in the natural gas business, not the oil business, granted they effect each other, but it is more about the future economy in the USA with twenty million and rising  newly unemployed citizens, and over forty thousand deaths and growing from C-19. Corporate profit reports are coming up soon, and those reports are expected to be really bad, stock futures over the next year or more don’t look good. How this virus has and is being handled on a federal level is the root cause of corporate pessimism going forward. Sad yet true. 

Clearly you watch too much cnn

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Clearly you watch too much cnn

Actually, rarely, just read many different news sources nationally an internationally. So clearly you are wrong ? 
I don’t own a TV, or have cable, dish etc. I live on a sailboat traveling the east coast and the Bahamas, so I read a lot. So you can ease your skepticism Tenhigh... ?

Edited April 21, 2020 by Don Otreply

[LB48]

5 hours ago, CNYfan said:

Does this have to do with the price of a barrel of oil as it relates to the Pegula natural gas enterprises?   

 

Its always something, just when things were starting to look up for once

"Its always something" could be the truth.  Think about the entire Pegula situation.  Kim is 19 years younger than Terry.  Kim has a degree from Houghton College, was a secretary for Terry in her very first job and now she is basically running the show in his name.  They both have difficulty speaking in public.  Communication difficulties seem to happen through out all their organizations.  McD is way to smart to think "What - me worry"!

[Steptide]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Even if that means the Sabres leave Buffalo?

No, I don't want them to leave buffalo. I'm not a die hard Sabres fan like I am a bills fan, but I do want the Sabres to be good again. It may be time for new ownership. I'm not an expert though. I can't say why the bills seemed to have turned their program around, but the Sabres are stuck in this rut. 

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, LB48 said:

"Its always something" could be the truth.  Think about the entire Pegula situation.  Kim is 19 years younger than Terry.  Kim has a degree from Houghton College, was a secretary for Terry in her very first job and now she is basically running the show in his name.  They both have difficulty speaking in public.  Communication difficulties seem to happen through out all their organizations.  McD is way to smart to think "What - me worry"!

 

Kim has difficulty speaking in public?  Not I have seen.

[Green Lightning]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well as a former sports journalist I am telling you this is a good piece of journalism. He has spoken to plenty of people he isn't giving his opinion he is reporting. 

 

If you want to dismiss it as a "hack" fine. But people should be taking that article seriously. It is concerning.

Well as a former journalist I am telling you it's not. It's lazy and made to create controversy. All he did was interview the naysayers. No where did he try to get another point of view or talk with other employees who feel otherwise. Nor did be seek out business analyst who would comment on all of this from a business point of view. Then he just went after her Kim Pegula with a negative slant that couldn't help but put her on the defensive. It was unbalanced and lazy. I am not concerned about the substance as there was little if it.  Everyone is going through some tumult now.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Green Lightning

[Bob in STL]

6 hours ago, purple haze said:

The Sabres would never be as profitable as the Bills, even if the Bills were terrible and the Sabres champions.  The NHL is beloved, but in America, a niche sport, especially compared to football or basketball. 

 

On principle, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pegula's sell the Sabres because they don't seem to have a clue how to run them and fans deserve infinitely better.  But if they do will the team stay in Buffalo where they belong?  It's a terrible situation.

It’s only a terrible situation if the Sabres leave, and the NHL dies not want want the team leaving it best TV market in the USA.  

 

The thought of the Pegula’s selling the Sabres to a local consortium is appealing.  Sell the Sabres and Amerks to Buffalo and Rochester interests.   Terry  got off on the wrong foot in the NHL.  Talking about Stanley Cups with no experience, throwing money at marginal free agents, and the continuous instability.   He turned the Sabres into the California Golden Seals.  They have no inside hockey people helping them.  Kim Pegula is so far proving to be  not qualified to run this empire.  
 

Of bigger concern is Beane and McDermott.  Terry needs to lock them up for a long time and then take Kim and stay out of their way.   
 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Bob in STL

[Bob in STL]

41 minutes ago, LB48 said:

"Its always something" could be the truth.  Think about the entire Pegula situation.  Kim is 19 years younger than Terry.  Kim has a degree from Houghton College, was a secretary for Terry in her very first job and now she is basically running the show in his name.  They both have difficulty speaking in public.  Communication difficulties seem to happen through out all their organizations.  McD is way to smart to think "What - me worry"!

I think she was a waitress when they met, then he hired her, then he married her ... now she runs PSE.  

[TheFunPolice]

14 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

I think she was a waitress when they met, then he hired her, then he married her ... now she runs PSE.  

 

She was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar....

 

That much is true

 

But even then she knew she'd find a much better place...

 

Sorry... Reading all the doom and gloom took me to 80s rock song land... 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Doom and gloom sells....

 

Maybe a bunch of San Antonio billionaires with a dream of bringing the NFL to San Antonio will buy the Bills for the guys from Whitesnake to run and they'll move in to a beach house in Dunkirk and devote their lives to keeping the Bills in WNY

 

Makes sense to me

[eball]

Irresponsible post. That is literally the only mention of McDermott’s alleged concern in the entire article, and is essentially hearsay. 
 

The Pegulas are a target of Graham right now. They’ve made mistakes, certainly, but to imply McDermott is worried is jumping the gun. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

Well as a former journalist I am telling you it's not. It's lazy and made to create controversy. All he did was interview the naysayers. No where did he try to get another point of view or talk with other employees who feel otherwise. Nor did be seek out business analyst who would comment on all of this from a business point of view. Then he just went after her Kim Pegula with a negative slant that couldn't help but put her on the defensive. It was unbalanced and lazy. I am not concerned about the substance as there was little if it.  Everyone is going through some tumult now.

Thank you, I felt the same way. I usually love Tim’s work and normally would defense it. But it’s easy to paint a negative picture after getting fired. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Tim Graham interviewed almost 40 current/former PSE employees, and the feedback was that dysfunction, nepotism, and cost-cutting pervade the organization.  The Pegulas gave a presentation in January, right after the Bills made the playoffs, and one of the stated "three pillars" of organizational goals was "return on investment," which was widely described (and possibly stated by the Pegulas directly, though that seems shocking) as ensuring that the Pegulas can maintain their lavish lifestyle.  There is concern that the dysfunction within the Sabres will spill over into the Bills, and McD allegedly is concerned about it.

McDermott needs to be concerned about putting an offense on the field this year that is good and can score points thru 4 qtrs of every game.  All the rest is immaterial.  I bet a lot of the players barely know who the  Pegulas even are.  I liked Ralph better because he cared about football.  It was his life and his passion.  The Pegulas have done a great job giving the Bills the money to spend and be competitive.  But as far as being old blood NFL football owners,  Nah.  Guy seems like an uncool nerd to me.  Has no presence.  When I think of the leader of the team, I think of Brandon Beane, not Terry or Kim Pegula.  

[May Day 10]

Kim pegula is not qualified to run operations of a sports team, let alone like 4 of them.  So, the most senior sports business guy?  Kevyn Adam's.  His qualifications are that he played in the nhl and lives in buffalo.  He is in over his head. 

 

So you see countless mishaps like alumni jerseys with mis-spelled names that arent even correct or authentic jerseys.  They miss the deadline to change to royal blue this year.  Miss the deadline to wear the black/red jersey this year for a special event.  They completely forget "hockey is for everyone night", first say it was because there were already too many theme nights, then say they had it planned all along and it is some un-named game (with like 4 left).  They missed their own deadline to release pricing to season ticket holders for their "ez" renew program.  On the eve of the deadline, they sent an email out to sth revising the t&cs to buy them 15 more days.  Then, they completely butcher sth pricing.  Chopped the arena into 40 price levels that are confusing and you cant even look at in good faith on their web site.  My 300 level tix that I hung onto for the past 10 miserable seasons only due to preserving my seniority and seat location went up by about 10% or roughly $350.  Just because they are close to center ice in the 300s.  Great. Punish me for being loyal now.  Let's alienate everyone! Not surprising the team is locked into the bottom of the nhl ON the ice.  It's a circus, and this is just what we see. 

 

The pegulas need help.  Its amateur hour.  Mark my words that the Bill's will have their "polian moment" as well if things appear to be going well.

Edited April 21, 2020 by May Day 10

[BillsFan2313]

Tim Graham is a complete fool, end of story. Anyone that wants to read his crap, more power to you. I have nothing against the guy, he just sucks at his job. No argument.

[Rob's House]

I'm old enough to remember when it was sexist to question the wisdom of making Kim Pegula the president of operations.

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 I totally don't get this take. And you just said Graham can't be bought off...yet you suggest Kim Pegula would get more screen time if she "played ball?" Curious.

What don’t you get? When a reporter is about to realease a potentially damaging story about your business, and asks you for a statement, it’s your one chance to defend yourself, usually with a carefully crafted PR statement. Whatever KP put out was not that.

45 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

I'm old enough to remember when it was sexist to question the wisdom of making Kim Pegula the president of operations.

Rob, she was a waitress in Alaska. You WERE being sexist.

[NickelCity]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

So you see countless mishaps like alumni jerseys with mis-spelled names that arent even correct or authentic jerseys.  They miss the deadline to change to royal blue this year.  Miss the deadline to wear the black/red jersey this year for a special event.  They completely forget "hockey is for everyone night", first say it was because there were already too many theme nights, then say they had it planned all along and it is some un-named game (with like 4 left).  They missed their own deadline to release pricing to season ticket holders for their "ez" renew program.  On the eve of the deadline, they sent an email out to sth revising the t&cs to buy them 15 more days.

 

Damn.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Really interesting/concerning article in The Athletic today, it's a good but terrifying read:

 

https://theathletic.com/1758235/2020/04/20/as-pegulas-face-business-challenges-employees-describe-a-toxic-culture-at-pse/

 

"

Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude."

 

Man , dont ruin the fantasy !!? 

 

 

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I read the article. It is worrying. My conclusion was they need to sell the Sabres but then that is easier for me to say as a non-hockey fan and non-Buffalonian but their core business is facing tough times, the property business similarly and the Sabres are a huge cash drain. 

 

 

 

Time to drill another well ... Oh wait.