sunshynman Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. It’s the XFL. And not just the Bills who didn’t see, every other team in the league? He couldn’t stick on a practice squad? More than likely he is getting a camp invite somewhere after what he’s accomplished but also more than likely he looks so amazing because of the level of competition there. It’s possible he took a little extra time to develop but in the end I think it’s just bad defensive talent he’s facing 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. If this is a reflection of the Bills evaluation of WR's, is it not a reflection of all other 31 teams? It's the XFL, they are not being covered by the same caliber of DB's. They saw him in practice everyday and if they thought he needed more time, I have no reason not to believe their evaluation. I've always liked Cam Phillips and thought he was at least a ST/ 5th receiver but I'm not a GM or coach in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: It’s the XFL. /thread 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey13 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 This is the same situation we ran into with Duke Williams. Duke was pretty good in the CFL and had some moments in the NFL but in the grand scheme of things he wasn't that impactful for us. Cam has been brought in, IIRC, for two training camps and hasn't been able to break through our lackluster receiving corp. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 He's been great in the XFL but nothing really stands out for him as an NFL prospect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. I share some questions about our ability to evaluate WR, but Cam Phillips doesn't factor into those questions for me based upon XFL play. Arguments for: Cole Beasley John Brown Dawson Knox, despite the dropsies has shown some real flashes Arguments against: Zay Jones Kelvin Benjamin Tyler Kroft (gets an incomplete because of foot, but not impactful relative to signing) Neutral: McKensie Duke Williams Robert Foster (all have made some contributions relative to investment in them) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Cam is great in the XFL because he doesnt have to get vertical. He can get underneath while Walker 7 yard passes you to death. He just doesnt have the speed or strength to be worthy of being on the field in the NFL. He offers you nothing in the way of explosive plays. If he could play special teams he probably be a roster-able player in the slot, but he doesn't so instead he plays in the D League. He probably will get a training camp invite, and will end up getting cut again. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. Man, how did I not have you on ignore up to now... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 He's probably somewhere around the 250th best receiver option (32 teams X ~7 WRS, plus practice squad WRs). And he's going against CBs in the XFL who are also around the 250th best. Different ballgame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Some XFL team sign Peterman, stat! Their first gold jacket...lamé of course, it’s McMahon’s spectacle. Edited March 11, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. college stats looked good too. I’m not sure what this means about ability to play in the NFL Edited March 11, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Some guys prefer blondes, some brunettes.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Nope.. Beane and staff had a meeting one day and decided to ignore the WR position 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 We really need the equivalent ‘down’ vote option here to the ‘awesome’ upvote. How about the 16 ton weight the Pythons would often drop to end a sketch? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I share some questions about our ability to evaluate WR, but Cam Phillips doesn't factor into those questions for me based upon XFL play. Arguments for: Cole Beasley John Brown Dawson Knox, despite the dropsies has shown some real flashes Arguments against: Zay Jones Kelvin Benjamin Tyler Kroft (gets an incomplete because of foot, but not impactful relative to signing) Neutral: McKensie Duke Williams Robert Foster (all have made some contributions relative to investment in them) I’d only counter by saying that Beasley and Brown were sought after FAs who have had devious success in the league. The KB trade is even worse because they saw him in Carolina when he was fat there. The Zay move is even worse because they traded up instead of staying put and taking JuJu or Kupp. They also traded Sammy and tried to replace him with Jordan “Garbage” Matthews. They also “blew” late round picks on Ray Ray and their friend’s kid. im not freaking out about Phillips. But there are some real questions about their offensive personal evaluation. Blindly trust them on defense, especially in the secondary. Very vary of their offensive scouting, especially at receiver. Given this is their biggest need, it’s a valid concern. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: It’s the XFL. And not just the Bills who didn’t see, every other team in the league? He couldn’t stick on a practice squad? More than likely he is getting a camp invite somewhere after what he’s accomplished but also more than likely he looks so amazing because of the level of competition there. It’s possible he took a little extra time to develop but in the end I think it’s just bad defensive talent he’s facing Agreed. Cam Phillips is talented, has great hands and will fight for the ball, but he's slower than a lot of defensive linemen. Against NFL DBs he won't get open nearly as often, and he's not going to out run anybody. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. Maybe we should wait until he plays against NFL competition.... and not against a defensive secondary that couldn’t make an NFL roster. I remember when the Bills activated Cam Phillips in 2018. He did ok but was hardly a dominating WR. He looked like a player on the fringe of making an NFL roster. 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’d only counter by saying that Beasley and Brown were sought after FAs who have had devious success in the league. The KB trade is even worse because they saw him in Carolina when he was fat there. The Zay move is even worse because they traded up instead of staying put and taking JuJu or Kupp. They also traded Sammy and tried to replace him with Jordan “Garbage” Matthews. They also “blew” late round picks on Ray Ray and their friend’s kid. im not freaking out about Phillips. But there are some real questions about their offensive personal evaluation. Blindly trust them on defense, especially in the secondary. Very vary of their offensive scouting, especially at receiver. Given this is their biggest need, it’s a valid concern. To be fair, the only one still left from the administration that traded up for Zay was McDermott. In hindsight this was terrible pick....at the time, it still probably wasn’t a great move. Still Zay had a really productive college career and was know for having....sure hands. LOL While this was a mistake the GM, front office, entire scouting and most of the offensive coaching staff is new. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The XFL as a league primarily comprised of guys who by and large are bad at football, everyone knows this. So any player that stands out has to be judged in that context. Cam is a marginal PS level player that hasn’t been able to stick on any PS. Comparatively, look at Duke Williams, he has been better, and has a good catch percentage, and a game winning TD catch, and he is considered to be depth at the WR position. So Cam has a long row to hoe, he may get camp invites, but so far he he has not shown to be so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Maybe we should wait until he plays against NFL competition.... and not against a defensive secondary that couldn’t make an NFL roster. I remember when the Bills activated Cam Phillips in 2018. He did ok but was hardly a dominating WR. He looked like a player on the fringe of making an NFL roster. To be fair, the only one still left from the administration that traded up for Zay was McDermott. In hindsight this was terrible pick....at the time, it still probably wasn’t a great move. Still Zay had a really productive college career and was know for having....sure hands. LOL While this was a mistake the GM, front office, entire scouting and most of the offensive coaching staff is new. That’s fair. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 It comes back to how much this regime is willing to value the offensive skill positions because this coming season they absolutely need an out of the box weapon for Josh. Perhaps they'll just fall back on the depth of the class and use another 2nd or 3rd on a skill type. I don't think that's good enough if they're going to support the QB and help the offense improve from being a mid to bottom ranked unit. At this point, scoring points is more crucial to their long term success than finding another big dollar/high draft pick defensive player. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleSammy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The Bills should consult with us amateur General Managers/personnel gurus here on TBD before making these moves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) He was also a 6th round pick in XFL draft for skill positions, which means that each of the eight teams, including his own, selected 3-4 WRs ahead of him. That means at least 25 WRs were already off the board across the XFL. So who's good at scouting? Edited March 11, 2020 by cage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshynman Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, BillsVet said: It comes back to how much this regime is willing to value the offensive skill positions because this coming season they absolutely need an out of the box weapon for Josh. Perhaps they'll just fall back on the depth of the class and use another 2nd or 3rd on a skill type. I don't think that's good enough if they're going to support the QB and help the offense improve from being a mid to bottom ranked unit. At this point, scoring points is more crucial to their long term success than finding another big dollar/high draft pick defensive player. The not going against NFL DB's in the XFL is fair. But 9 TD's is talent regardless. But Maybe we don't have the correct coaching to see and evaluate the talent. Foster seems to constantly have issues. They couldn't use Mackenzie correctly/consistently. They waited awhile to try and focus on using Duke. The FA pickups have worked, but were know commodities. So I guess BB can spot the talent. So I have some hope they get the correct WR(s) in this draft! But I hope the O staff can develop them correctly. They have shown little in that regard. We need to invest on the O talent this year. D I trust both BB and coaching 100%. 7 minutes ago, LittleSammy said: The Bills should consult with us amateur General Managers/personnel gurus here on TBD before making these moves! Thanks for contributing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: To be fair, the only one still left from the administration that traded up for Zay was McDermott. In hindsight this was terrible pick....at the time, it still probably wasn’t a great move. Still Zay had a really productive college career and was know for having....sure hands. LOL The one who traded up for Zay WAS McDermott. Beane was not the GM during the 2017 draft. So if you're looking for anyone to blame for the Zay pick, it is McDermott, who I trust with knowing the defensive secondary, but that is about it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhatharry Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. LOOKING GOOD IN XFL.... yea You know why guys look good in XFL, same reason they look good in college but dont pan out in NFL. Lack of talent defending them. Edited March 11, 2020 by Hardhatharry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, LittleSammy said: The Bills should consult with us amateur General Managers/personnel gurus here on TBD before making these moves! That’s right! Especially me, I’m way smarter about football than those losers... ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Oh. Boy. Make. It. Stop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said: To be fair, the only one still left from the administration that traded up for Zay was McDermott. In hindsight this was terrible pick....at the time, it still probably wasn’t a great move. Still Zay had a really productive college career and was know for having....sure hands. LOL While this was a mistake the GM, front office, entire scouting and most of the offensive coaching staff is new. The mistake was they hired Zay's college coach and he had nothing but good things to say about Zay. It was on his recommendation they picked Zay. Problem is college coach who had bounced between NFL coaching staffs and college had no ability to coach up WRs to NFL level so Zay basically was left as good college player with potential. Coach was canned after 1 year then needed to deal with P5t5rman and rookie QB throwing to him. Best thing for Zay is being on another team with another WR coach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I share some questions about our ability to evaluate WR, but Cam Phillips doesn't factor into those questions for me based upon XFL play. Agreed. Until Phillips does something in the NFL, it's ridiculous to say we "missed" on anything. 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Arguments for: Cole Beasley John Brown Dawson Knox, despite the dropsies has shown some real flashes John Brown was a borderline Pro-Bowler this season. He was a fantastic pickup and one of the steals of free agency. Cole Beasley was a solid pickup. His salary matches up with his production. 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Arguments against: Zay Jones Kelvin Benjamin Tyler Kroft (gets an incomplete because of foot, but not impactful relative to signing) Zay Jones has definitely been a bust. But he was not drafted by Brandon Beane, and Sean McDermott is not a GM. Kelvin Benjamin was a successful receiver during his first 2+ years in the league, when Beane was able to land him for a 3rd Round Pick. Bills fans were understandably thrilled when we made this trade. I don't think anyone could have anticipated the drastic fall-off in play, whether it was due to injury or effort. 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Neutral: McKensie Duke Williams Robert Foster (all have made some contributions relative to investment in them) Yep. All of these guys were signed for peanuts, and have been low-level contributors. At this point, Beane has yet to make a significant draft investment (Day 1 or 2 pick) in the WR position. Both of his significant free agent signings have been successful. His only significant trade was a bust, but it was something most couldn't have foreseen. So in my opinion, it's unfair for anyone to question his ability to evaluate the position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I share some questions about our ability to evaluate WR, but Cam Phillips doesn't factor into those questions for me based upon XFL play. Arguments for: Cole Beasley John Brown Dawson Knox, despite the dropsies has shown some real flashes Arguments against: Zay Jones Kelvin Benjamin Tyler Kroft (gets an incomplete because of foot, but not impactful relative to signing) Neutral: McKensie Duke Williams Robert Foster (all have made some contributions relative to investment in them) Thank you for this post. It’s what the OP should have been. Happy to see that the trend line is looking good there. Also I don’t think I’d assign them much blame where Zay is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. XFL Talent vs NFL Talent... Josh Brown and Cole Beasley say hello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Toll Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I’d say the fact that we are heading into year 4 and have had no clear cut #1 receiver over that span is definite cause for concern. They seem to have picked QB correctly, hopefully they can pick the guy to end our wide receiver woes. Having a true #1 talent would make Brown and Beasley far more dangerous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Tough position to evaluate, most of the all time greats had little fanfare entering the NFL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The Bills screwed the pooch here - the guy is performing in the XFL so he would have been a star in the NFL. Beane must go. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Limeaid said: The mistake was they hired Zay's college coach and he had nothing but good things to say about Zay. It was on his recommendation they picked Zay. Problem is college coach who had bounced between NFL coaching staffs and college had no ability to coach up WRs to NFL level so Zay basically was left as good college player with potential. Coach was canned after 1 year then needed to deal with P5t5rman and rookie QB throwing to him. Best thing for Zay is being on another team with another WR coach. But he’s on another team with another WR coach, and he STILL a bottom of the roster player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 23 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I share some questions about our ability to evaluate WR, but Cam Phillips doesn't factor into those questions for me based upon XFL play. Arguments for: Cole Beasley John Brown Dawson Knox, despite the dropsies has shown some real flashes Arguments against: Zay Jones Kelvin Benjamin Tyler Kroft (gets an incomplete because of foot, but not impactful relative to signing) Neutral: McKensie Duke Williams Robert Foster (all have made some contributions relative to investment in them) Wouldn't it be... Great No one Good Cole Beasley John Brown Potentially good Knox Neutral McKensie Duke Williams Bad The Rest (not sold on Foster at all) The problem is there isn't anyone great, just some guys that are good. That's my view anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 @BigBillsFan last post helped me form my thoughts. I think the answer to the OP is we dont know because we havent really sunk sizeable assets into the WR position yet. We have sunk a 3rd for KB and then some FA contracts. Of those FA contracts Beasley and Brown, who are pretty reasonable contracts (31st and 37th highest), are by far the highest. So we havent spent draft picks or FA money on WR yet. Reason for hope is that the two FA contracts have been good; reason for despair is that KB was bad. I really dont think we have any idea about the draft. These guys typically have a prototype and I'm not sure we know that yet for WR. If your arguement is that they cant evaluate WR cause they havent really taken a shot yet, then ok, but I would still think you can understand the OL last year was a bigger need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 10:52 AM, LittleSammy said: The Bills should consult with us amateur General Managers/personnel gurus here on TBD before making these moves! The “let’s see you do better” crowd always has so much to offer in a fan discussion forum 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 10:17 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: I’d only counter by saying that Beasley and Brown were sought after FAs who have had devious success in the league. The KB trade is even worse because they saw him in Carolina when he was fat there. The Zay move is even worse because they traded up instead of staying put and taking JuJu or Kupp. They also traded Sammy and tried to replace him with Jordan “Garbage” Matthews. They also “blew” late round picks on Ray Ray and their friend’s kid. im not freaking out about Phillips. But there are some real questions about their offensive personal evaluation. Blindly trust them on defense, especially in the secondary. Very vary of their offensive scouting, especially at receiver. Given this is their biggest need, it’s a valid concern. Given your propensity for correct spelling, wth does this mean? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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