Star Lotulelei takes a pay cut

[YattaOkasan]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think Harry rushes the passer well enough for the 3 tech...........they want heat from that spot.

 

He's also pretty good at DT1T and I'd expect him to get around 55% of the snaps or maybe even more...........he actually tackles RB's..........as a rookie he had twice as many tackles as Star in far fewer snaps............ which is nice when your MLB is a lot more of a matchup advantage against the pass than the run.

 

That' what's killer with Star at DT..........when teams want to run the LB's and safeties gotta' make all the tackles because Star can't get off blocks.

Oh I am def higher on Harry than Star. And I am super excited for next year when Harry and Oliver are on the field together especially in a nickel package. 

[2ForMacAdoo]

6 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Hopefully this doesn’t cause him to start a fight with a funeral director and throw weights at people at his local gym.  

Love the Ritchie reference BuffaloRebound. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I think you said it up thread. They knew they had to roll with him this year. So lessen the hit this year and he’s probably gone next year. If that’s the plan I’m ok and I also share your concerns about not working hard enough. 

 

 

I'm guessing the impetus for the deal was the March roster bonus.

 

Those things are great for players and agents...........they force decisions.........teams don't want to pay $1M bonus and then later cut the guy but to me guaranteeing him that money to save $1.75M is stepping over a dollar to pick up 25 cents.

 

To me I'd rather pay him the roster bonus...........keep him incentivized to work for that unguaranteed money for 7 months............. and then talk pay cut in summer if it came down to that.

 

Nobody is lining up to pay Star $4M in August.    Not even close.  

 

They bid against themselves to save some money now..........which is odd because the "now" value of $1.75M when you have $90M to spend shouldn't be that high.

[GoBills808]

Lmao at this thread

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

The Bills have been exceptionally good at structuring and restructuring contracts to make them team friendly.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And the first free agent they are pursuing is soon to be 35 year old Gregg Olsen.

 

Do you think maybe this has something to do with the fact that free agency doesn't actually start for another month?

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

So what the Rams did was great.......perennial losing franchise that took a shot and actually got to a SB

 

Yeah they "took a shot." And now they're coming off a year where they didn't make the playoffs at all. They have just $23 million in available cap space and no 1st round pick for the next 2 drafts. Their starting DE and LT are both free agents. And Ramsey's contract comes up next year. That's the team you want us to emulate?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Do you think maybe this has something to do with the fact that free agency doesn't actually start for another month?

 

 

No I think it's because they want Gregg Olsen..........because he can still play and as a mentor with a skillset similar to Dawson Knox.

 

Veterans in every room.

 

I suspect..........and frankly HOPE.......they keep shopping in the veteran aisle in UFA.

 

Give me Gerald McCoy in the room with Ed Oliver and Calais Campbell in the room with Bam Johnson..........give me a veteran LB who can bounce between SOLB and MLB so they can use Edmunds more in pass rush.    

 

The fits are good and the likelihood of being able to lure them to Buffalo is greater than high leverage young UFA's like Shaq Barrett and Amari Cooper who might not even take a visit.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah they "took a shot." And now they're coming off a year where they didn't make the playoffs at all. They have just $23 million in available cap space and no 1st round pick for the next 2 drafts. Their starting DE and LT are both free agents. And Ramsey's contract comes up next year. That's the team you want us to emulate?

 

 

Yeah I will take a SB trip followed by a 9-7.   They went 9-7 in 2019 in a lot tougher division than the AFC East(after winning 2 division titles, something the Bills haven't done in a very long time) and they will be back in good cap shape in 2021 and will be playing in the greatest new NFL facility ever in the most popular market to live in.

 

 Wouldn't even surprise me if they spent some future money this offseason and pissed everyone off like the Saints have been doing for a decade when Bills fans have been buying the hype about how bad the Saints cap situation was.

 

  They are anything but screwed.   Worst thing they have going for them is that great division they are in.   

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

What’s the point of this?

Do you mean life in general?

 

The game of football in general?

 

Or the restructuring of Star's K?

 

 

[batmanfreek]

12 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you mean life in general?

 

The game of football in general?

 

Or the restructuring of Star's K?

 

 

He means the word “this”. The point is either at the top of the t or the h. 

[Aussie Joe]

Interesting that this thread has caused some spirited debate...

 

Although it’s probably the first real player related confirmed news of the off season though so that probably explains why..

 

Lots of FA decisions remaining in respect of players to keep or let leave, and new players to sign...

 

Going to be a good month ahead.. 

[Mountain Man]

8 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 there is no reason to believe any player would agree to a pay cut. 

Yes there is, the alternative is to risk not being on the roster. He traded more guaranteed money but less in total for more money but less guaranteed 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Mountain Man

[Turk71]

   There wouldn't have been much to gain letting him go cap wise and at least he is now being paid more like the average rotational dt that he is. The Bills can move on after next season if they want or need to. Seeing as how they were pretty much stuck with his contract this year anyway I see it as a win.

[Pbomb]

3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Lol. I sat in the wind and rain for the finale as backups played in December.  And you still show no capacity to understand what I was eluding to during that discussion. But nice try. 
 

and you saying anyone has a lame Schtick is truly rich. You and scott coming in here with the crap you two spewed trying to downplay anything solid this franchise does.... that train is never late....

 

Been a pleasure..... as always. 
 

 

 

Ya I can’t recall him ever saying anything even slightly positive about the bills 

[transplantbillsfan]

Good stuff (pun intended)

 

Star was a lot better than we give him credit for this past offseason 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

He was overpaid from the get go. Run stuffers aren't a premium position in the NFL and Star was paid a borderline top 10 salary at his position with a hefty guarantee. Star was good at his role of clogging up lanes and shifting along the line but he wasn't an elite player nor the type of player (interior disruptor) that defenses pay a lot for at his position. 

 

BUT that doesn't me had has no value, other than the few games in the middle of the season Star's play ranged from solid in the beginning to really good to close the season. Him taking a modest pay cut of close to 2 million simply makes him less overpaid which is a win win for both sides. The Bills get some cap space and Star gets security for 2020 and some guarantees for his 2021 salary. 

 

I think a lot of people got on him excessively failing to see that just because a player was overpaid for his position doesn't mean he doesn't bring value to the defense. 

 

 

I disagree with your first paragraph, though I think you're right on with the rest, but he really isn't overpaid. He was paid what he was worth to McDermott. He isn't just a run-stopper, it's more complex than that, as I'm sure you know. He's a space eater, and there aren't that many of those guys to go around, so the good ones get paid well, as there are two or three significantly above Star in the top ten. It's a really difficult job that few are able to physically handle. Not every defense needs one, but the ones that do need them badly.

 

Space eater may not be a "premium position," but neither is $10 mill a year a premium salary. Star is tied for 148th highest paid in the league, in terms of average salary, and 129th highest in terms of guarantee. Calling that a premium salary would be ridiculous. The bottom line is simply that this is a position that McDermott needs filled in his defense and needs filled at a pretty high level. He knew Star could fill it at that level, having coached him in Carolina. And if McDermott has showed one thing, it's that he knows how to put together a really good defense with consistency. He needed Star to do that. 

 

As you point out, this is a good deal for both sides, a small pay cut for some guarantees the Bills are willing to live with because they want him here.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

It's only relevant if they dont learn from their mistakes. McD let Gilmore go, passed on Mahomes,  and Beane traded away more talent than he brought in. Beane admitted the 2018 team was not competitive.  So they wasted a season and multiple draft picks to get Allen and Edmund's. Their fates are all intertwined.  So far Beane has shown that he seems to overpay in free agency, drafts reasonably well but the jury is still out on most of their picks, and gets higher compensation back in trades than would be expected. 

 

 

"Wasted a season"? Man, you just do ... not ... get it.

 

A rebuild isn't a waste. It's utterly clueless to think so. It's accepting a couple of bad seasons with the promise of having great improvement in exchange after the end of the trough in years 3, 4, 5 and on. Which is exactly what is happening so far.

 

Wait, why am I even answering? Not a single thing you said here makes the slightest bit of sense. I'm sure everyone else sees that as well as I.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So you think concern about possibly being out of the league in 2021 is going to motivate a player with on-field effort issues who is going into his age 31 season.....coming off two years of declined production......and has now pocketed nearly $50M in his career to both prepare and perform at high level in 2020?    

 

Well you have more faith than I.

 

 

 

 

Not so much more faith as much better perception of reality.

 

Your "effort issues" are perceptible only to yourself and a few other Star haters on these boards. What the Bills say about it is exactly the opposite. What you hear about Star from them isn't the boiler-plate Crash Davis platitudes about giving 100%. Instead you get over-the-top, unbounded compliments about how he works like a dog doing the dirty work to let others get the glory.

 

Yeah, pretty much the whole world, Bills included, expect him to continue to both prepare and perform at a high level in 2020, to do what he's always done. The fact that the Bills guaranteed 2020 and parts of 2021 does indeed mean that the people with access to his workouts and offseason preparation that you simply don't have are indeed very satisfied with his past effort and production and do expect the same going forward.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

NFL teams are defined in the playoffs by how well they score points.  Not their defensive prowess against a lightweight schedule during the regular season.

 

 

That's utter nonsense.

 

You can kid yourself that it's somehow not important that the Chiefs and 9ers were both in the top eight in scoring defense. But that is what you'd be doing, kidding yourself. Both offense and defense are important. Yeah, the Bills offense still needs a lot of work. But it's not somehow unimportant that the Bills defense was genuinely excellent. It is a huge step towards being a good team.

 

 

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I wonder how that went over the the "culture" of their locker room.  Highest paid defender suddenly getting good after media criticism.  Makes you wonder why it took that for him to elevate his play.  

 

 

It didn't go over, because it didn't happen.

 

First, it really wasn't media criticism. It was criticism by clueless fans. The media mostly had muted positives. When they voiced those and went to the Bills and the guys who watched tape they got much less muted positives. At that point, fans started noticing what they should have been noticing all along, that he was doing a good job at a thankless task.

 

Lotulelei didn't suddenly elevate his play. People just suddenly started noticing that he'd actually been playing pretty well.

[Turk71]

5 hours ago, Paulus said:

Clears cap space, and let's Star know we want to keep him for the remainder of his contract. Basically, until he retires.

 

  Doesn't let Star know they want to keep him past this year at all imo. The restructure will make it easier to keep him if they so desire, but the Bills can easily move on after this year if that is what they decide.

[ALF]

I prefer adding incentives with a needed pay cut to try and motivate better play.

[GreggTX]

Lotulelei wouldn't even start for most NFL teams IMO.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Doesn't matter what the defense does if the offense can't keep a drive going and score points, which is what in 3 straight seasons they haven't become good at.  

 

Which means the defense is on the field more than they should be.  I guess people have forgotten the wild card loss when they gave up that 16 points lead in less than 1.5 quarters.

 

NFL teams are defined in the playoffs by how well they score points.  Not their defensive prowess against a lightweight schedule during the regular season.

 

Look dude, disagree with me.  Don't really care.  But grow up?  Is this high school?  

Yeah you’re right....having a good defensive doesn’t matter LOL.

 

The last 1.5 quarters define our entire season...geezus.  The 49ers gave up 14 points in 7 minutes after being up by 10 in the 4th.  I won’t even bring up the last TD as the game was already over.  I guess that means the 49ers defense was terrible.

 

Yes grow up.  Those with your consistent crusade and bringing up stupid **** like Pegula threatening the credentials of the writers who talk negatively about the Bills (LOLOLOL).  This is stuff 13 year olds come up with and that’s you....you act like an angry teen.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[HOUSE]

Oh the humanity

[aristocrat]

i always thought it was weird the way the structured the deal with the first year 6 mil cap hit and the higher caps in the later years.  good on getting some more cap room. what are we gonna spend on?

[Cripple Creek]

15 hours ago, Bangarang said:

What’s the point of this?

Wondering the same.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lmao at this thread

 

 

 

You're so right. And here's another:

 

 

8 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

His decisions around not building an offense are what should be questioned.  That side of the ball was a straight-up mess in 2018 and this past season managed to be bottom quartile of the league in many categories.  24th in total yards. 26th in total passing yards. 23rd in points.  

 

At this point in the NFL, having a very good defense is the equivalent of handing out participation trophies.  They're nice to look at, but don't represent anything substantive.

 

How many times does Mahomes have to carve up a top defense for people to see offense is what sets winners apart from pretenders?

 

 

 

Yeah, offense bad in 2018 when they didn't put any resources into it.  News flash, though. That's what happens in rebuilds, and especially rebuilds when the previous regime left you in very bad shape cap-wise. You suck for a couple of years.

 

"How many times does Mahomes have to carve up a top defense for people to see offense is what sets winners apart from pretenders," you ask? Great question. Here's another, with just as much logical sense. How many terrific oranges do you have to eat before you realize that no other kind of fruit is worth eating? I mean, you may have asked the world's dumbest question there. I guess that's an achievement.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Niagara Dude]

15 hours ago, JoeF said:

 

@FieldYates

 

The Bills and starting DT Star Lotulelei have agreed to a restructured contract for the final three years of his deal. For 2020, Lotulelei’s base salary drops by $1.75M, but becomes fully guaranteed, with $2.5M in injury guarantees for 2021 added. Some benefit for both sides.

 

The guy takes a lot of grief -- but I think he does his job pretty well.  His contract is likely an overpay but this corrects it a bit.  Maybe room to sign Jordan Phillips.

Murphy/Smith/Kroft,  cut these clowns and save another 15mill,  which puts us well 95 million

[nucci]

15 hours ago, JoeF said:

 

@FieldYates

 

The Bills and starting DT Star Lotulelei have agreed to a restructured contract for the final three years of his deal. For 2020, Lotulelei’s base salary drops by $1.75M, but becomes fully guaranteed, with $2.5M in injury guarantees for 2021 added. Some benefit for both sides.

 

The guy takes a lot of grief -- but I think he does his job pretty well.  His contract is likely an overpay but this corrects it a bit.  Maybe room to sign Jordan Phillips.

Nope, it means he's gone after this season. DL is for a big makeover next 2 seasons

[thebandit27]

20 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Murphy/Smith/Kroft,  cut these clowns and save another 15mill,  which puts us well 95 million

Why. Would. You. Cut. Murphy.

 

He makes an average of $7M, which is peanuts for a DE, and he was productive last year.

 

Don't cut good players just because.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Why. Would. You. Cut. Murphy.

He makes an average of $7M, which is peanuts for a DE, and he was productive last year.

Don't cut good players just because.

 

Exactly

[teef]

the posters that i thought would make this thread interesting definitely delivered.  nicely done. 

[BigBuff423]

11 hours ago, biggerdaddynj said:

Agree that it’s time to move on but give Hauschka some credit for turning things around very nicely at the end of the season when the pitchforks were out and people wanted to run him out of town for some unproven nobodies.   
 

Send the guy off with the dignity he earned.  Think we can all agree on that.  And, I'm not just blaming you—I meant to post this before but the occasion never arose.   

 

You're right that he did get better towards the second half of the season. And really, I'm not a Hauschka hater - I appreciate what he's done in Buffalo, but I also don't want to get too sentimental about a player that might very well be more of a liability than an asset. 

[thebandit27]

Just now, BigBuff423 said:

 

You're right that he did get better towards the second half of the season. And really, I'm not a Hauschka hater - I appreciate what he's done in Buffalo, but I also don't want to get too sentimental about a player that might very well be more of a liability than an asset. 

Good teams are constantly bringing in competition for their specialists. There’s no better use of a day 3 pick than on a quality kicker or punter—they’re the most likely players to make your 53 from day 3.

[teef]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Yeah you’re right....having a good defensive doesn’t matter LOL.

 

The last 1.5 quarters define our entire season...geezus.  The 49ers gave up 14 points in 7 minutes after being up by 10 in the 4th.  I won’t even bring up the last TD as the game was already over.  I guess that means the 49ers defense was terrible.

 

Yes grow up.  Those with your consistent crusade and bringing up stupid **** like Pegula threatening the credentials of the writers who talk negatively about the Bills (LOLOLOL).  This is stuff 13 year olds come up with and that’s you....you act like an angry teen.

i think you two need to have a drink and see where it goes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Lotulelei wouldn't even start for most NFL teams IMO.

 

You're so Pretty! 

 

The Bills had the #2 D on points, #3 on yards DESPITE lack of offensive production, and you think one of our key DLmen wouldn't even start for most teams?

 

 

[Dopey]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Why. Would. You. Cut. Murphy.

 

He makes an average of $7M, which is peanuts for a DE, and he was productive last year.

 

Don't cut good players just because.

Including Star.

[BigBuff423]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. He was overpaid. Not sure it is a big enough cut to justify it with his play. But every little helps. 

 

I will respectfully disagree. I think when you look at where the team was at the time in terms of the Defense, what their needs were and what the market was at the time, it seemed on par to me. Also, he was not brought in to be Kyle Williams 2.0 whose biggest asset was rushing the passer from the inside. I'm not saying that Star is a premiere DT, I'm saying the Bills paid him according to the market value of what they needed at the time. He's done what he's been asked to do. If you think he should be doing something different, and I don't, then that's a coaching issue, not so much what they're paying him. IMHO

15 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Sounds like not only people on this board disagree with you.

 

I'm not really sure what that means...?? Unless you're implying that the Bills seem to think he didn't perform well? If that's your assertion I would suggest you're wrong. I think they saw the ability to save some money, be able to move on next year if they choose to and yet give him some guarantees so he doesn't have to be concerned about not seeing the money in his contract. IMO, it was a means to helping out both sides, but not because they didn't think he played according to their expectations. 

 

It sounds like you disagree, so - that's where I'll leave it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It's one of those offseason moves that makes sense on paper...........until September when the player with the effort issues has just spent an entire offseason without any financial motivation to prepare for it.

 

$4.25M isn't debilitating if he stinks but it's probably not money they should have guaranteed just to save $1.75M.     

 

I'm just interested to see what else they do now.

 

Asking a player to take a salary cut is always a motivational risk.  But IMO the Bills had a problem in trying to negotiate contracts with other part-time, rotational DLmen and that problem was called "Star's Contract".  Anyone they try to sign looks over there and says "Ah.....HIM.  Paid like HIM".

The renegotiation may bring Star's contract more in line with others the Bills may be trying to negotiate.