DCbillsfan Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Not go to a Super Bowl? Interesting.......but I'll pass on that plan. "Interestingly enough" the Bills were the 6th oldest team in the NFL last year..........and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get any younger as they try to make the jump from wildcard hopeful to a division contender and hopefully more. Frank Gore is gone and so is Lorax. Both 36 along with 9 draft picks. Pretty good chance they get younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Like I said. I don't really care for Star. I don't think he brings enough to the DL regardless of the contract. Harry could very well usurp him this season if they use him as a 1T. JMO. But the fact that he has no guarantees in 2021 defy the notion that he has NO incentive to play hard in 2020. He could find himself out of the league if he doesn't play well. So you think concern about possibly being out of the league in 2021 is going to motivate a player with on-field effort issues who is going into his age 31 season.....coming off two years of declined production......and has now pocketed nearly $50M in his career to both prepare and perform at high level in 2020? Well you have more faith than I. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, LSHMEAB said: They definitely have the cap space to add a 1T DT capable of making some plays, but I'd be shocked if they didn't just stick with Star in 2020. Don't think they would have made this move if they planned to move on. Probably more likely that they'll add a backup. I do think Star stays a Bill in 2020, his dead cap figure is still a bit prohibitive to get rid of him. Get the stud 1T in draft or FA and keep Star as a backup/rotation ( <30% of snaps). McD and Beane can't ignore the 1T position, the DLine was just too weak this past season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Like I said. I don't really care for Star. I don't think he brings enough to the DL regardless of the contract. Harry could very well usurp him this season if they use him as a 1T. JMO. But the fact that he has no guarantees in 2021 defy the notion that he has NO incentive to play hard in 2020. He could find himself out of the league if he doesn't play well. I think that’s why he was “restructured” - they plan to use Harry at 1 tech more often and his % of a snaps will no longer align with his original contract. But they still believe he’s a valuable player, and want to keep him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: So you think concern about possibly being out of the league in 2021 is going to motivate a player with on-field effort issues who is going into his age 31 season.....coming off two years of declined production......and has now pocketed nearly $50M in his career to both prepare and perform at high level in 2020? Well you have more faith than I. You're choosing me, of all people, to defend Star? I'm wholly unprepared to do so my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: Frank Gore is gone and so is Lorax. Both 36 along with 9 draft picks. Pretty good chance they get younger. They are very young at many of the most key positions - QB, MLB, LT, CB1, RB1. Will likely add WR1 this year. Edited February 12, 2020 by YoloinOhio 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: Frank Gore is gone and so is Lorax. Both 36 along with 9 draft picks. Pretty good chance they get younger. I don't think so. They will return more players than ever under McDermott.........coincidentally all a year older?. And the first free agent they are pursuing is soon to be 35 year old Gregg Olsen. Frankly most of the best fits for this team in UFA are going to be older like Olsen. They do have 9 draft picks and as much as I'd like to see Beane execute them all I think the general consensus is that he will be using some of them to trade up. If I'm wrong be sure to remind me that the team got "younger"...........but I won't be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: They are very young at many of the most key positions - QB, MLB, LT, CB1, RB1. Will likely add WR1 this year. The point is that doesn't matter. It's OK if they are the oldest team in the NFL next year..............you don't win by keeping young cores together for a long time anymore. The Seahawks won the SB with the youngest team in the entire NFL.....young at all key positions etc.......3 years later they were in major re-tool. A lot of Bills fans haven't paid attention to how good NFL teams are run for a couple decades now...........you try to make hay on your rookie QB contract.........and after that you have to adjust the plan. So what the Rams did was great.......perennial losing franchise that took a shot and actually got to a SB........they are on a fat vet QB contract now and have to adjust their plan the way the Seahawks have. Hopefully the Bills actually contend for at least one SB win before Allen gets paid.........but the clock is ticking..........they can't be on the @Don Otreply"we need at least two more years to build" plan cuz in two more years they will be either in contract 2 of Josh Allen or on to a different QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 44 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Right now, i believe it is just Star and Harry at 1T. I don't think Harry is a 1T, but more of a 3T -- he's just not big enough to be a 1T. Really, Star isn't big enough, either. So what to do? Move Harry over to 3T and draft or buy a true 1T ( > 325 lbs ) who won't get pushed back, can push forward and get to the backfield, as well as stop the run. McD's interior OLine was very weak this past season; not good in rush defense or pass rushing. I thought Corey Liuget did a capable job filling in. They could do worse than offer him a short contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah our defense in which gave up and average of 16 points per game killed us. 2nd in the league is just unacceptable. You obviously don’t believe you build a team in the trenches because you’re bitching about us investing in it. Grow up. Doesn't matter what the defense does if the offense can't keep a drive going and score points, which is what in 3 straight seasons they haven't become good at. Which means the defense is on the field more than they should be. I guess people have forgotten the wild card loss when they gave up that 16 points lead in less than 1.5 quarters. NFL teams are defined in the playoffs by how well they score points. Not their defensive prowess against a lightweight schedule during the regular season. Look dude, disagree with me. Don't really care. But grow up? Is this high school? 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Specifically he picked up his play after the media started calling out his play. He still wasn't good but he was notably more active after public criticism. I wonder how that went over the the "culture" of their locker room. Highest paid defender suddenly getting good after media criticism. Makes you wonder why it took that for him to elevate his play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Not go to a Super Bowl? Interesting.......but I'll pass on that plan. "Interestingly enough" the Bills were the 6th oldest team in the NFL last year..........and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get any younger as they try to make the jump from wildcard hopeful to a division contender and hopefully more. Agree to disagree. They don’t want to be a flash in the pan, then be completely handcuffed and not make any noise after one run. The Rams are a disaster cap wise. As far as being “old” I mean, really, you’re not truly throwing the literal argument out there, are you? Gore and Lorax are gone. Our top players are a young QB, young LT, young RB, young TE, young DT, young LB, young CB, with the following in their prime years - Morse, Brown, Beasley, Hyde. Tons of cap space, all our draft picks and you choose to be salty? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The only stable player on the defensive interior. Harry gets hurt, Oliver was a rookie, Peko?!, Leuiget?!? and he allowed Jordan to not get doubled. He had an aging de who is in decline next to him(Hughes) and another de who just isn't good(murph). Some guys just don't know how good he was last year. HOPEFULLY Harry comes back healthy, but this defense needed and still needs Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The point is that doesn't matter. It's OK if they are the oldest team in the NFL next year..............you don't win by keeping young cores together for a long time anymore. The Seahawks won the SB with the youngest team in the entire NFL.....young at all key positions etc.......3 years later they were in major re-tool. A lot of Bills fans haven't paid attention to how good NFL teams are run for a couple decades now...........you try to make hay on your rookie QB contract.........and after that you have to adjust the plan. So what the Rams did was great.......perennial losing franchise that took a shot and actually got to a SB........they are on a fat vet QB contract now and have to adjust their plan the way the Seahawks have. Hopefully the Bills actually contend for at least one SB win before Allen gets paid.........but the clock is ticking..........they can't be on the @Don Otreply"we need at least two more years to build" plan cuz in two more years they will be either in contract 2 of Josh Allen or on to a different QB. And this is why we can't draft a #1 WR who will take 2 years to develop IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Hebert19 said: Ya. His decisions around having a great defense should be questioned. His decisions around not building an offense are what should be questioned. That side of the ball was a straight-up mess in 2018 and this past season managed to be bottom quartile of the league in many categories. 24th in total yards. 26th in total passing yards. 23rd in points. At this point in the NFL, having a very good defense is the equivalent of handing out participation trophies. They're nice to look at, but don't represent anything substantive. How many times does Mahomes have to carve up a top defense for people to see offense is what sets winners apart from pretenders? Thing is, McD was at the Sabres game and I guess his offensive strategy affected the hockey team. They managed to score 3 goals an eked out a win against the NHL's worst team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Any thoughts that they roll with Harry and Oliver as 3 techs and the replace Phillips with a moderate priced 1 tech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: You're choosing me, of all people, to defend Star? I'm wholly unprepared to do so my friend. Yeah I'm just a big believer in incentivizing players............especially ones that have a concerning history wrt motivation. That 2015 offseason where the Bills guaranteed Rex $25M.....outrageous under the circumstances......... and then turned around and extended McCoy out of stupidity with $26M more in guarantees and paid Percy Harvin like he was trustworthy and then gave all that guaranteed dough to Dareus with no conduct clauses. Just insane. That front office had a boatload of cap room to spend and were living in an "on paper this sounds good" dimension that just isn't reality. All of those people were disincentivized to perform by unusually generous deals where the team was basically bidding against itself and not surprisingly they all underwhelmed in 2015. Paying Star up front goes against the nature of the greatest concerns about him...........that he doesn't play up to expectations. I mean the dude tore it up in his rookie year and has been on cruise control cashing pay checks ever since. First year after big contract with Bills has by far his worst season and after another dud of a season he's getting his base salary guaranteed? It's like past peformance doesn't matter in evaluation. Which is of course one of the things we worry about with McBeane........giving too much rope or doubling down on mistakes because they like the person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah I'm just a big believer in incentivizing players............especially ones that have a concerning history wrt motivation. That 2015 offseason where the Bills guaranteed Rex $25M.....outrageous under the circumstances......... and then turned around and extended McCoy out of stupidity with $26M more in guarantees and paid Percy Harvin like he was trustworthy and then gave all that guaranteed dough to Dareus with no conduct clauses. Just insane. That front office had a boatload of cap room to spend and were living in an "on paper this sounds good" dimension that just isn't reality. All of those people were disincentivized to perform by unusually generous deals where the team was basically bidding against itself and not surprisingly they all underwhelmed in 2015. Paying Star up front goes against the nature of the greatest concerns about him...........that he doesn't play up to expectations. I mean the dude tore it up in his rookie year and has been on cruise control cashing pay checks ever since. First year after big contract with Bills has by far his worst season and after another dud of a season he's getting his base salary guaranteed? It's like past peformance doesn't matter in evaluation. Which is of course one of the things we worry about with McBeane........giving too much rope or doubling down on mistakes because they like the person. I think you said it up thread. They knew they had to roll with him this year. So lessen the hit this year and he’s probably gone next year. If that’s the plan I’m ok and I also share your concerns about not working hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, SCBills said: Agree to disagree. They don’t want to be a flash in the pan, then be completely handcuffed and not make any noise after one run. The Rams are a disaster cap wise. As far as being “old” I mean, really, you’re not truly throwing the literal argument out there, are you? Gore and Lorax are gone. Our top players are a young QB, young LT, young RB, young TE, young DT, young LB, young CB, with the following in their prime years - Morse, Brown, Beasley, Hyde. Tons of cap space, all our draft picks and you choose to be salty? And yet the Rams were 9-7 in the toughest division in football and will not be a "disaster" cap wise in about 13 months. They'll just be in the greatest NFL facility ever in the most attractive market to live in. Rams are really screwed........geez. Nobody is in cap hell for long anymore Mr. Salty. Teams with good QB's and coaching and GM's who juggle talent win more consistently. Like I said.........Seahawks were the youngest team in the NFL when they won the SB and had the best defense of the generation and a future HOF QB.........and 3 years later they were in re-build.........it's not 1988 the Bills aren't going on a 12 year run where they have a bunch of 10+ year stud players on the team the entire time. Not the way the NFL works anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: Any thoughts that they roll with Harry and Oliver as 3 techs and the replace Phillips with a moderate priced 1 tech? I don't think Harry rushes the passer well enough for the 3 tech...........they want heat from that spot. He's also pretty good at DT1T and I'd expect him to get around 55% of the snaps or maybe even more...........he actually tackles RB's..........as a rookie he had twice as many tackles as Star in far fewer snaps............ which is nice when your MLB is a lot more of a matchup advantage against the pass than the run. That' what's killer with Star at DT..........when teams want to run the LB's and safeties gotta' make all the tackles because Star can't get off blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I thought Corey Liuget did a capable job filling in. They could do worse than offer him a short contract That's true, I forgot about Corey, who probably should get a short contract. They really do need a strong 1T, though; thus far they've mostly had bandages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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