Buffalo_Gal Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I got my "Buffalo vs Everybody" hoodie!!! Link? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 .....and yet people insist on posting nonsense from that crap site over and over and over. I've never even heard of PFF outside of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 this was hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Not really surprised about Baker and Allen. Clear to me who the winner of those two is, though. The guy who got his team to the playoffs. Not having Tre White, first team all-pro, on your top 100 list? That's hilarious. He stacks up in every statistical category as an elite corner... except his PFF grade? Haha. Ok. I sure hope Tre sees this and wants to prove them how wrong they are. Same with Allen, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) PFF seems to be the perfect example of the old cliché, "can't see the forest for the trees." They get so mired in stats that they create themselves that it is almost like they aren't seeing the full body of work of a player. Do they even take into account what type of defenses each team plays, who they were matched up against (caliber of player...did they always guard the #1 or not), weather conditions, whether they were playing with a lead or having to come back, the validity of their offense, how long are they on the field, were some of the receptions allowed when the team was playing prevent defense (so you're going to allow receptions underneath), etc., etc.? There is so much to take into account regarding what type of season a player had that you can't boil it down to just a couple of stats. And to that point, they also seem to cherry pick said stats to make a point or to prove they are correct. In the article they use two stats to say that Tre is not a top 101 player. TWO. Yards surrendered per snap and catches allowed, in which case Tre is ranked 26th and like 40th. Basically they are saying that you can throw out all of his other stats and just use those two to prove he isn't as good as you might think. Doesn't matter that he did not allow a TD (isn't that the main point of the game on defense, to not let the other team score? Isn't that more important than say allowing 1 yard more per reception across the season), throw out his league leading 6 interceptions and league leading 8 turnovers (Tre had two forced fumbles as well), forget that he is tied for 4th in passes defended. As the PFF article states, "the PFF grade captures all of the ways those numbers can mislead or paint an inaccurate picture." But then they don't tell you how. Apparently, it's their little secret. It also appears to me that they have quite large egos over there. Our stats/metrics know way better than any other stats or stat system, better than pro bowl voters, better than AP All Pro voters, better than the BillsMafia who have watched every snap by Tre over three seasons. They are just so full of themselves. OneBillsLive had one of the guys from PFF on recently and he was trying to explain their system. And it still sounds pretty subjective to me. He said (approximately), we watch every snap by every player. But in order to do so, we have to hire a lot of people to do this (one small group of people can't do it all). So, they basically hire freelancers to help. And then those people (whose qualifications we know not) watch the plays of a particular player and decide things like was that a catchable ball or a bad pass, etc. You can have this great system and be amazing number crunchers, but at the core of the system, it seems that it is still just people making subjective judgements. So, how they can claim that that is a more accurate judge than actual stats that matter in a game (like TDs and turnovers) is beyond me. I can understand that there is still a bit of a wait and see approach with Josh for a lot of people, especially people who were so vocally down on him during his draft, but to basically say that, "Eh, Tre White isn't really as good as he seems, bloated stats, he's maybe a top 10 corner, top 30 DB," seems crazy. As others said, it is hard to take these guys seriously and I don't think I will again even if and when they have a Buffalo Bill ranked highly (like they did with Jerry Hughes for pressures in 2018). Edited February 11, 2020 by folz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Eh, this Sam guy from PFF only seems interested in stirring the pot on twitter these days. Hey may know what he’s talking about a little bit, but throughout the past season and obviously up to present he’s just a **** online and idk if PFF thinks this helps their brand, but god help them if they do. He’s a troll at this point. remember folks - PFF ratings are entirely subjective at the end of the day (at least their core player ratings are.) there is objective stuff there too, but obviously skewed through the “minds” of people like Sam here. If you want raw numbers and make up your own mind, go somewhere like pro football reference or similar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 PFFs schtick when it comes to the Bills is obvious Trash the players , especially the ones that were really good(like Tre) and get a whole bunch of clicks.. That is ALL THEY WANT... To get you to click. They don't care if you agree or not , heck they probably want you hating their stuff No publicity is bad publicity 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 hours ago, gobills404 said: I'm convinced Allen has slept with the wife of everyone at PFF. ....and he graded them all very low.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Baker has shown more with his arm through the air than Allen has, but only sporadically this year. He's clearly regressed, fat and looks entitled. Allen PROGRESSED this year and is 10 times the athlete that Mayfield is and looks like he wants to win. Allen has worse receivers Advantage Allen Not adding Tre is so ridiculous it makes their entire site a heaping pile of trash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I stopped at PFF, I love it when people write that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Those uppers..... You seem like a very unhappy person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Giselle has a man face And ash tray breath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Well, I don’t care about wives and girlfriends pics in bathing suits, but it is stupid they would make it on PFF. I agree it is a sin Tre didn’t make the list, but look at the bright side. If this even slightly annoys him, he’ll have bulletin board material for himself. As far as PFF, I just don’t go to their site ever as they seem to repeatedly make foolish statements about so many players and teams. The only way I even know anything on their site other than a long time ago reading it, I now only see what they post when you guys place in a thread. This was a good laugh, and really shows their colors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commish Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Interesting article from the dark side [Boston]: https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: can we get @teef's thoughts on this? i'd do stuff to her face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflabillsfan1 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 3 pages and Thurman is not here defending PFF. Unusual. Edited February 11, 2020 by soflabillsfan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said: 3 pages and Thurman is not here defending PFF. Unusual. Lolol. I was gonna bring this up on page 1, but left it alone. Definitely odd how much he defends it Edited February 11, 2020 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) This is the same moron that was mad because Daniel Jones went ahead of Will Grier. The same fool that is championing a 29 year old RB/WR/TE hybrid with 13 career passing attempts and zero TDs as the next great NFL QB. The same dolt that told us that Vlad Ducasse was the 7th-best OLman in football: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-nfls-top-pass-blockers-in-pure-pass-sets Pretty sure we can easily dismiss what Sam says as total and complete horse ? Edited February 11, 2020 by thebandit27 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, westside2 said: You seem like a very unhappy person. No---I'm good, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 They totally whiffed on White, but I can't argue about the Mayfield/Allen comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Roch-A-Bill said: Interesting article from the dark side [Boston]: https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/ Date of article is June 2014 which makes it interesting because they were predicting that Tom Brady was no longer elite. Guy's been to 4 Superbowls and won 3 since then. Key quote (emphasis theirs) Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened: But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it? Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play? and Lastly, I hesitate to bring this part up, but part of me wonders the qualifications for doing this work. It feels like me taking a job to to play-by-play film breakdown on the Premier League. What are the football coaching or scouting backgrounds for these UK analysts making these grades? Is there anyone on staff with an NFL background? Bolded my emphasis because I did not realize PFF was based in the UK and therefore, unless they are importing film graders from the US, they likely lack the experience of even a DI college player in the states. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Sam Monson also said if you think OBJ was special with Eli as his QB wait until you see him with Baker. Oops The guy is a pontificator that is wrong consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Date of article is June 2014 which makes it interesting because they were predicting that Tom Brady was no longer elite. Guy's been to 4 Superbowls and won 3 since then. Key quote (emphasis theirs) Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened: But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it? Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play? and Lastly, I hesitate to bring this part up, but part of me wonders the qualifications for doing this work. It feels like me taking a job to to play-by-play film breakdown on the Premier League. What are the football coaching or scouting backgrounds for these UK analysts making these grades? Is there anyone on staff with an NFL background? Bolded my emphasis because I did not realize PFF was based in the UK and therefore, unless they are importing film graders from the US, they likely lack the experience of even a DI college player in the states. Exactly. If people knew the work that these Quality Control Assistants do to watch plays 5, 6, 7 times in a row from each of 3 different views just to get a feel for one player’s assignment on a given play, they’d realize that the only value that PFF offers is in their data acquisition. Snap counts, formations, etc. That’s the value. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Exactly. If people knew the work that these Quality Control Assistants do to watch plays 5, 6, 7 times in a row from each of 3 different views just to get a feel for one player’s assignment on a given play, they’d realize that the only value that PFF offers is in their data acquisition. Snap counts, formations, etc. That’s the value. I can't tell if that's sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can't tell if that's sarcasm? No...just not entirely clear. I’m saying that if people knew how hard actual NFL AQC personnel worked just to try to understand one guy’s assignment on one play, they’d know beyond all doubt that a writer with zero football experience half a world away is just guessing at best. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No...just not entirely clear. I’m saying that if people knew how hard actual NFL AQC personnel worked just to try to understand one guy’s assignment on one play, they’d know beyond all doubt that a writer with zero football experience half a world away is just guessing at best. Ah, I see now. You're saying that the QCA employed by different teams in the NFL, who I believe usually have a football background, watch 3 different views 5,6,7 times in a row to get a feel for a players assignment while watching tape on 1 team, so for people who may have less football background and who are trying to watch tape from all 32 teams each week to not only decide what that assignment is, but assign them a grade, is bogus. Yes, agree. Snap counts, formations, type of play (run/pass) broken out by down, distance, and game situation (leading, behind, 1Q, 4Q) are all objective and provide value. Grades or these special sauce stats like DVOA....eh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hesekiah Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 As others have already noted, trashing Bills players is cheap/easy way to drum up engagement for people whose job is basically just peddling hot online sports takes dressed up with some made-up (sorry, "proprietary") statistics. People like the PFF guys, Aaron Schatz, Cian, etc. know they're playing to an audience and will post this stuff hoping for a reaction. The best response is to not engage. I've muted or unfollowed most of these guys and haven't missed them. If more people did the same, they'd probably move on to fanning another flame. To be clear, I still follow plenty of football people who are skeptical about Allen and the Bills. But they tend to be more credible/established and willing to acknowledge when Allen/the Bills play well (e.g., Dan Orlovsky, Geoff Schwartz). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: They have wives? I thought they were in love with their computer models Can you blame them. Their models really do suck ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: Mayfield throws for a mere 2 more tds while tossing 12 more int’s than Allen. Also posts a significantly lower qb rating.... all while having OBJ and landry at his disposal... and he was better than Allen? Solid take there and the tre white stuff is comically absurd. They had 18 other cb’s ranked ahead of him by seasons end. That’s absolutely HILARIOUS. The man was voted 1st team ALL PRO!!!!! This. Enough said. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: Can you blame them. Their models really do suck ? Ooooooh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Come on guys. They know Bills fans have a reaction to this and its a great tactic to generate traffic. It is why they go out of their way to tag and incorporate bills fans in their posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 this is stupid. I used to respect PFF, but they have managed to do the unthinkable: become worse than Bleacher Report. Congrats guys. BTW: won't be clicking on these links. Total click-bate at best, terrible 1st grade analysis at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 They're so wrapped up in their own scoring systems and numbers it's ridiculous. They'll write whatever they have to in order to justify their BS. They're smug and arrogant. They truly believe they know what every player is supposed to do on every play. They don't. They also have a lot of stupid metrics that spit out negative numbers despite a positive play. In short, they're fulla s#*t and I hope they all get pinged upside the head by a rogue shuttlecock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: Come on guys. They know Bills fans have a reaction to this and its a great tactic to generate traffic. It is why they go out of their way to tag and incorporate bills fans in their posts. exactly why not to click on the posts. If you want to generate conversation, how about a better topic: can Motor have avoid a sophmore slump? Can Knox become a fantasy football winner at TE next year, etc. Things that generate clicks without being a total waste of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisker A Tasker Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 PFFFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) As I’m sure has been mentioned already, Duck Hodges was better than both of them, right PFF? none of this matters because they both (Allen and Mayfield) need to get better, in different ways, To become what their teams need them to be to contend for the SB. PFF uses a set of stats that doesn’t favor Josh but also doesn’t define Josh. All that matters is next year, 2019 is over. Edited February 11, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: exactly why not to click on the posts. If you want to generate conversation, how about a better topic: can Motor have avoid a sophmore slump? Can Knox become a fantasy football winner at TE next year, etc. Things that generate clicks without being a total waste of time. yup. Even in their post about mayfield...they took a weird Off-topic shot at Allen to trigger bills fans. It’s so explicit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I have an appendage they can work their inhaling functions on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Did Collinsworth make the punchable face thread? He certainly should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, GreggTX said: They totally whiffed on White, but I can't argue about the Mayfield/Allen comparison. You must suck at arguing. Mennonite pacifists could dominate that argument without breaking a sweat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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