John Brown failure to toe drag

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

So I’m rewatching the game, and John Brown should have played that reception better.  Could Allen have thrown it a tad sooner, sure. However, Brown took his feet off the ground when I don’t think he really needed to.  Would have been First and Goal at the 3 yd line.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[BigBillsFan]

100% it was so head-scratching that watching the replay just let me know he got too excited.

[Kmart128]

The annoucers picking that play apart killed me. That was a great throw... right on the money

Edited January 8, 2020 by Kmart128

[billsfan714]

I was thinking the exact thing as it happened.    A great receiver has the awareness to drag the toes, churn up the black rubber and probably fall forward, but makes the sacrifice of the body to make plays.   Just another example of the O needing better playmakers.   Its what separates great from average.    Playmakers make plays at key moments.

Edited January 8, 2020 by billsfan714

[GoBills808]

He's a good receiver, not a #1. Your #1 knows how to make that catch.

[Bangarang]

Yep, Smoke needs to drag those toes.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

The annoucers picking that play apart. That was a great throw... right on the money

I had the game on mute and I still wanted Booger to stfu

[SCBills]

Allen was making a bunch of Mahomes throws out there.  
 

If he had Mahomes playmakers we have a 1st and Goal on that play and a TD before half. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

He's a good receiver, not a #1. Your #1 knows how to make that catch.

 

Honestly I feel like a lot of average NFL receivers would have made that catch.  Obviously Brown is better than an average receiver but yeesh that was bad.

[Bookie Man]

Yeah, I was like wtf is Booger talking about, it was a bad pass, thrown too late? It was great ball placement. A routine sideline catch. Difficulty 4/10. So frustrating. John Brown likely makes this catch 9.5 plays out of 10. There were just so many little instances, where they could have shut the door and failed. The Duke Williams drop, the Allen fumble and about 10 other things. If just one of those plays go our way, we win. Most frustrating game as I can remember.

[Locomark]

And why a bunny hop....he needs toe drag swag lessons in the offseason ....

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, NC Book said:

Yeah, I was like wtf is Booger talking about, it was a bad pass, thrown too late? It was great ball placement. A routine sideline catch. Difficulty 4/10. So frustrating. John Brown likely makes this catch 9.5 plays out of 10. There were just so many little instances, where they could have shut the door and failed. The Duke Williams drop, the Allen fumble and about 10 other things. If just one of those plays go our way, we win. Most frustrating game as I can remember.

I thought I’d be over it by now, but everyday seems to present a new angle of a play we should’ve made or a new bad call that went against us and I’m sucked back in.  

[Bookie Man]

1 minute ago, Locomark said:

And why a bunny hop....he needs toe drag swag lessons in the offseason ....

I think he thought he was gonna have to lay out and stretch or go up high and get it. When it was perfect, it caught him off guard, making him jumble his footwork.

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I thought I’d be over it by now, but everyday seems to present a new angle of a play we should’ve made or a new bad call that went against us and I’m sucked back in.  

Same here. At first I had just accepted we blew it, got outplayed after the 1st half. Every day my mind has changed more and more. Now I'm like a raging lunatic lol. This is going to be the longest offseason for me in a while..

[Da webster guy]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's a good receiver, not a #1. Your #1 knows how to make that catch.

 

Uh yeah OK.    1060 yards, tons of clutch 3rd down conversions in 15 games on only 115 targets and virtually none of it in garbage time.

 

Elite numbers dude.  Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

He screwed up that catch for sure, jumped when he didn't have to and didn't get the drag in, but his "he's not a #1 stuff" is so ridiculous.   Might be better to say it would be nice to add another great receiver and pray the guy sniffs 1000 yards on 130 targets.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Locomark said:

And why a bunny hop....he needs toe drag swag lessons in the offseason ....

 

Can't remember him doing that ever before Saturday.   I think he just was tracking the ball and he thought he had more room.  Maybe he thought it was coming in hotter than it was (wouldn't be the first Josh throw to him this year that came in high and sizzlin)  and his instincts told him to jump before he could think.   

 

 Frustrating.   A great pickup though, and surprised me with how good his hands are this season.  Hadn't seen much of him at Zona or Balt.

[GG]

1 minute ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Uh yeah OK.    1060 yards, tons of clutch 3rd down conversions in 15 games on only 115 targets and virtually none of it in garbage time.

 

Elite numbers dude.  Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

He screwed up that catch for sure, jumped when he didn't have to and didn't get the drag in, but his "he's not a #1 stuff" is so ridiculous.   Might be better to say it would be nice to add another great receiver and pray the guy sniffs 1000 yards on 130 targets.

 

 

 

He’s not a true #1.  When was the last tough/contested catch that he made?

 

He’d be a perfect complement to a guy like Larry Fitzgerald. 

[Rocky Landing]

I see a thread like this, and I have to wonder what the real point is. Win or loss, every game has mistakes in it. Digging in to the minutia of one botched play has "agenda" written all over it.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Da webster guy said:

 

Uh yeah OK.    1060 yards, tons of clutch 3rd down conversions in 15 games on only 115 targets and virtually none of it in garbage time.

 

Elite numbers dude.  Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

He screwed up that catch for sure, jumped when he didn't have to and didn't get the drag in, but his "he's not a #1 stuff" is so ridiculous.   Might be better to say it would be nice to add another great receiver and pray the guy sniffs 1000 yards on 130 targets.

 

 

That's good for 21st in the NFL for receiving yards, just fyi. He also posted catch percentage of 63...again, that's not so good. 23rd in yards per reception. 26th in yards per target. 22nd in yards per game. 

 

I said he's good. If you think those are elite numbers I don't know what to tell you. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

I see a thread like this, and I have to wonder what the real point is. Win or loss, every game has mistakes in it. Digging in to the minutia of one botched play has "agenda" written all over it.

No agenda at all, a simple observation!

[MJS]

Well, he's running full speed. It's a lot tougher to make that catch, I think. He'd probably have to drag his feet and fall to the ground, which is what he should have done.

 

The "bunny hop" was to elevate his arms slightly to make the catch easier. He's a shrimp, remember.

 

He should have made it probably, but it's harder than people are making it out to be.

[K-9]

23 minutes ago, NC Book said:

Yeah, I was like wtf is Booger talking about, it was a bad pass, thrown too late? It was great ball placement. A routine sideline catch. Difficulty 4/10. So frustrating. John Brown likely makes this catch 9.5 plays out of 10. There were just so many little instances, where they could have shut the door and failed. The Duke Williams drop, the Allen fumble and about 10 other things. If just one of those plays go our way, we win. Most frustrating game as I can remember.

Agree entirely. It’s almost easier to take getting blown out in a loss where you know definitively you had no chance vs. ruminating over numerous chances you let slip away. 

[Phil The Thrill]

30 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Yep, Smoke needs to drag those toes.

it didn’t seem like that tough of a catch

[Augie]

So many plays.....so many, and each and every one could have turned the game. The failure to toe drag, the “WTF fair catch” on the kickoff, the head shot on Josh in OT which would have led to easy FG position, the drop by Duke, the Houdini escape by Watson where TWO guys failed to wrap up on the sack. We could go on and on, and any ONE play could have changed the outcome. I realize the Texans can make the same argument, but that is NOT the point. 

 

I will look at this as a young team learning how to make the big play, how to win the big game. We got valuable experience here. We should learn from it and the gained experience. Being a consistent winner in the NFL doesn’t just happen. It really is.....a process. And that doesn’t happen all at once. 

 

This was horribly disappointing, but an important step. If we can keep making progress (especially Josh), it should be exciting times ahead! 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He's great player. Tough catch. He could have made it was my thought at the time. Still very difficult.  

But I've posted many times, NFL players make miraculous plays on a routine basis. That is what it takes to win.  Look at the throw and catch between Cousins and Theilin.  Almost zero margin for error.  Bills need a couple of those plays a game. And those plays are easier if you have size and speed. Bills need to get bigger at WR and bigger/faster at OLB/DE.  

[Reed83HOF]

29 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I see a thread like this, and I have to wonder what the real point is. Win or loss, every game has mistakes in it. Digging in to the minutia of one botched play has "agenda" written all over it.

The agenda is we scored 12 points on 10 drives and lost thew game because we didn't score enough to end the game

[Thurman#1]

 

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Posted just now

1 hour ago, billsfan714 said:

I was thinking the exact thing as it happened.    A great receiver has the awareness to drag the toes, churn up the black rubber and probably fall forward, but makes the sacrifice of the body to make plays.   Just another example of the O needing better playmakers.   Its what separates great from average.    Playmakers make plays at key moments.

 

 

Great receivers make mistakes sometimes. Same with playmakers, even at key moments. It has to do with being human beings. It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens.

 

John Brown is both a great receiver and a playmaker. But yeah, this was a mistake.

 

He's a #1 receiver. He was 21st in yardage and tied for 24th in TDs despite the fact that they rested him the last week of the season, and he played on a team that threw the 24th most passes in the league, putting them in the bottom nine of the league. He's a #1. No, he's not a "true #1," but there are only about 6 or 7 of those guys in the league anyway.

 

Yes, we need to upgrade the #3 receiver position on this team. No, Brown is not the problem in any way.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[stony]

Great throw, 100% on Smoke.  I'll assume a momentary brain fart.  

[Turk71]

57 minutes ago, MJS said:

Well, he's running full speed. It's a lot tougher to make that catch, I think. He'd probably have to drag his feet and fall to the ground, which is what he should have done.

 

The "bunny hop" was to elevate his arms slightly to make the catch easier. He's a shrimp, remember.

 

He should have made it probably, but it's harder than people are making it out to be.

He just misjudged it, left the ground when he didn't have to and didn't focus on getting his feet down. Hell, he ran out of bounds standing up, didn't even fall forward keeping his feet behind him. It was actually fairly routine catch in the NFL, he just got fooled by how perfect the throw was I think. It happens, it just happened to happen at a really bad time.

[Freak-O]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

That's good for 21st in the NFL for receiving yards, just fyi. He also posted catch percentage of 63...again, that's not so good. 23rd in yards per reception. 26th in yards per target. 22nd in yards per game. 

 

I said he's good. If you think those are elite numbers I don't know what to tell you. 

If these numbers aren't enough for a #1 receiver then how many teams have one? 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

He’s not a true #1.  When was the last tough/contested catch that he made?

 

He’d be a perfect complement to a guy like Larry Fitzgerald. 

 

 

 

When people say "a true #1," they seem to mean a top 5 or 6 in the league guy. You're right, he's not one of those. He absolutely is one of the top 22 or 23 receivers in the league, though, and that makes him a #1.

 

And as for contested catches, that has nothing to do with being good, elite or whatever. It's only one part of being a receiver. Making catches, contested or not, that makes you a great receiver. Duke Williams makes contested catches, but he sure isn't a true #1. Receivers need to make catches. If they get open and make catches that aren't contested, that's the opposite of a problem. Plenty of great receivers don't make many contested catches.

 

Go back and look at the 5 or 6 times Brown was open long and overthrown by Allen this year. There's no doubt he's a #1.

 

 

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

That's good for 21st in the NFL for receiving yards, just fyi. He also posted catch percentage of 63...again, that's not so good. 23rd in yards per reception. 26th in yards per target. 22nd in yards per game. 

 

I said he's good. If you think those are elite numbers I don't know what to tell you. 

 

 

He's not just good. There are probably 60 - 90 guys in the league who are good. He's really good.

 

Elite generally means top three or four in the league. Nobody argues he's elite. They argue that he's a #1. Because he is.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

He’s not a true #1.  When was the last tough/contested catch that he made?

 

He’d be a perfect complement to a guy like Larry Fitzgerald. 

Agreed.  He is definitely NOT a #1 WR.  He's a #2, a good #2.  We need a dominant beast in size and strength, not Smurfs, like Julio Jones

Edited January 8, 2020 by Dablitzkrieg

[Success]

Brown’s awesome.  No player is perfect all the time.

[JoshAllin]

yup, it was annoying watching the seattle game and seeing guys make toe touches with much more difficult passes, I think brown was off mentally that day.

[JoPoy88]

I think that was largely a result of Brown doing that little awkward “hop” for the ball when he really didn’t need to. I think he just misjudged it in the air and then that was the result. Completely on him however.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

If these numbers aren't enough for a #1 receiver then how many teams have one? 

Guys I consider legit #1 wide receivers-

 

hopkins

thomas

hill

evans 

Beckham jr

diggs

jones

Cooper 

allen

Golladay

adams

 

Then some young guys like dj Moore, courtland Sutton, Godwin, Mike Williams who could get there soon. So maybe 10-15 teams? Probably forgetting someone

 

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

When people say "a true #1," they seem to mean a top 5 or 6 in the league guy. You're right, he's not one of those. He absolutely is one of the top 22 or 23 receivers in the league, though, and that makes him a #1.

 

And as for contested catches, that has nothing to do with being good, elite or whatever. It's only one part of being a receiver. Making catches, contested or not, that makes you a great receiver. Duke Williams makes contested catches, but he sure isn't a true #1. Receivers need to make catches. If they get open and make catches that aren't contested, that's the opposite of a problem. Plenty of great receivers don't make many contested catches.

 

Go back and look at the 5 or 6 times Brown was open long and overthrown by Allen this year. There's no doubt he's a #1.

 

 

 

 

He's not just good. There are probably 60 - 90 guys in the league who are good. He's really good.

 

Elite generally means top three or four in the league. Nobody argues he's elite. They argue that he's a #1. Because he is.

A 1 by default imo. And don’t get me wrong, I love Brown. He’s got great hands and speed but he’s not the whole package. 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Guys I consider legit #1 wide receivers-

 

hopkins

thomas

hill

evans 

Beckham jr

diggs

jones

Cooper 

allen

Golladay

adams

 

Then some young guys like dj Moore, courtland Sutton, Godwin, Mike Williams who could get there soon. So maybe 10-15 teams? Probably forgetting someone

 

good list. Godwin may be approaching that status as well. Too early to tell though.

 

edit: i see you listed him at the bottom good stuff.

Edited January 8, 2020 by JoPoy88

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

good list. Godwin may be approaching that status as well. Too early to tell though.

 

edit: i see you listed him at the bottom good stuff.

Thanks I like making lists??

[without a drought]

He's no Bobby Chandler. 

[Mat68]

The overall point imo is that Allen made enough plays to win.  The playmakers left a good amount of yards on the field.  As good as Brown was this year, he makes an incredible 2 or 1A.  A good Wr opposite Brown makes the offense and passing attack more dynamic.  This years draft class is deep.  My understanding, Marquis Brown who was the first Wr taken in 19, would be 4th or 5th wr this year.  I think Buffalo signs a vetran and Drafts one early.

 

Smoke had a tremendous year.  Him and Beasley having near or career years, shows the progress Allen had made as a passer.  Brown, Beasley, Knox, and Singeltary are a solid base to an offense.  I'm not satisfied with them overall but improving and adding to them makes the offense seem more promising.

 

Having a guy outside to share the load of the passing attack helps, Brown and Beasley.  Bringing in another back to keep Singletary fresh while also not limiting the offense is also a must.  I also, like the idea of bringing in an upgrade over Kroft so the team can go hurry up in 2 Te sets.  Assuming they are athletic and versatile as Knox.  

 

 

[Thurman#1]

 

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Guys I consider legit #1 wide receivers-

 

hopkins

thomas

hill

evans 

Beckham jr

diggs

jones

Cooper 

allen

Golladay

adams

 

Then some young guys like dj Moore, courtland Sutton, Godwin, Mike Williams who could get there soon. So maybe 10-15 teams? Probably forgetting someone

 

A 1 by default imo. And don’t get me wrong, I love Brown. He’s got great hands and speed but he’s not the whole package. 

 

 

 

Well, fine, then you don't understand what a #1 receiver is. 

 

If you want to say that Brown isn't a top twelve guy, which is what you are actually saying there, I don't think anyone will disagree with you.

 

But as for #1s, there are probably around 25 - 30 #1s in the league at any given time, and Brown is very easily in that group.

 

 

  

6 minutes ago, without a drought said:

He's no Bobby Chandler. 

 

 

True, dat. He's much better.

 

And I liked Chandler a lot.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Well, fine, then you don't understand what a #1 receiver is. 

 

If you want to say that Brown isn't a top twelve guy, which is what you are actually saying there, I don't think anyone will disagree with you.

 

But as for #1s, there are probably around 25 - 30 #1s in the league at any given time, and Brown is very easily in that group.

 

 

  

 

 

True, dat. He's much better.

 

And I liked Chandler a lot.

Ok since you seem unable to grasp this concept: technically yes, you are correct- EVERY team has a WR1. I am speaking of a wideout who is able to make the tough catches in important moments without being wide open, who defenses have to build game plans around, who can score from anywhere, kind of guy who will extend catch radius which will be immensely helpful for a QB like Allen.

 

We don’t have a guy right now whose catch radius extends beyond the length of his arms. Or can fight through a defender and present a bigger target. Maybe Knox eventually but right now the wideouts can’t.