UConn James Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Whatever Josh Allen is going to do in this offseason with Palmer, et al. he’s gotta put some emphasis on his grip or lack thereof on the football. Yesterday’s fumble came at a key point and the replay showed that the defender didn’t even touch the ball, it just dropped out of Josh’s hand like the hot potato of metaphor. The looseness with ball security has been an ongoing issue this season. He gets in trouble, gets pressured and becomes clumsy with his grip. That may be the Number 1 issue that he has to work on that is a weakness entirely his own, imo. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Wonderful insight 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 This, we all can agree on. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist_to_open Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I read the title to your post and thought to myself he's fumbling the ball just fine and doesn't need anymore work on it. 4 12 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Patently obvious. But for whatever reason, it simply hasn’t been an area of emphasis by him or the coaching. Edited January 5, 2020 by UConn James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I don't think he needs to work on it at all; he does it too much already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) No he doesnt need to work on it. I think he has fumbling down pat. Hopefully he works on ball security. Edited January 5, 2020 by formerlyofCtown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffbills716 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Thank you, Captain Obvious. Edited January 5, 2020 by Buffbills716 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, UConn James said: Patently obvious. But for whatever reason, it simply hasn’t been an area of emphasis by him or the coaching. How would you possibly know that? The coaching staff may have been harping on this all year and he simply doesn't respond under stress in the midst of a play. I assure you they are trying to fix his horrible footwork but he reverts to very bad footwork all the time in the heat of the moment. His fumble problem is largely due to how he often holds the ball while running. He keeps it in a throwing grip in a single hand, waving it around outside his frame. That is not enough protection when defenders get close. He needs to tuck the ball in and wrap his non-holding hand over the ball and protect it much better, like a RB would. I'm sure he knows this and has been told this by coaches. The trick is finding a way to make him actually do this in the heat of battle. This is an example of why inaccurate QBs rarely become accurate. It's mostly down to footwork and throwing motion and in the heat of battle, they revert to an instinctive "wrong" way of doing things. It's very tough to make them do what they have been taught in those moments of stress. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: How would you possibly know that? The coaching staff may have been harping on this all year and he simply doesn't respond under stress in the midst of a play. I assure you they are trying to fix his horrible footwork but he reverts to very bad footwork all the time in the heat of the moment. His fumble problem is largely due to how he often holds the ball while running. He keeps it in a throwing grip in a single hand, waving it around outside his frame. That is not enough protection when defenders get close. He needs to tuck the ball in and wrap his non-holding hand over the ball and protect it much better, like a RB would. I'm sure he knows this and has been told this by coaches. The trick is finding a way to make him actually do this in the heat of battle. This is an example of why inaccurate QBs rarely become accurate. It's mostly down to footwork and throwing motion and in the heat of battle, they revert to an instinctive "wrong" way of doing things. It's very tough to make them do what they have been taught in those moments of stress. I can agree with you on your post. It is tough to retrain yourself. I hope Josh can and I believe he will try to do just that. We'll find out next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Ball security work puts this off season. Clean that up. He has a bright future and like most young QBs he has his flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 He said that he was going to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said: This, we all can agree on. Nope....he needs to carry the ball loosely....LOL. yup. I think we all agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 You know, I know what the rules are but in light of the EZ non downing call not being enforced because we “ knew “ what the returner meant: JA doesn’t MEAN to fumble the ball so the fumble shouldn’t have counted. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Two hands on the ball might help!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAinLack. Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, the skycap said: Two hands on the ball might help!! Absolutely and its not hard to do. Next year opposing defenses will be making more of an effort to get the ball out of his single handed grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, TAinLA said: Absolutely and its not hard to do. Next year opposing defenses will be making more of an effort to get the ball out of his single handed grasp. They’ve been making the effort since week 3 or so. CIN players mentioned seeing the issue on film. This has to be solved by Josh ASAP. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: How would you possibly know that? The coaching staff may have been harping on this all year and he simply doesn't respond under stress in the midst of a play. I assure you they are trying to fix his horrible footwork but he reverts to very bad footwork all the time in the heat of the moment. His fumble problem is largely due to how he often holds the ball while running. He keeps it in a throwing grip in a single hand, waving it around outside his frame. That is not enough protection when defenders get close. He needs to tuck the ball in and wrap his non-holding hand over the ball and protect it much better, like a RB would. I'm sure he knows this and has been told this by coaches. The trick is finding a way to make him actually do this in the heat of battle. This is an example of why inaccurate QBs rarely become accurate. It's mostly down to footwork and throwing motion and in the heat of battle, they revert to an instinctive "wrong" way of doing things. It's very tough to make them do what they have been taught in those moments of stress. Mechanics are muscle memory. They don't do much work on mechanics In season... you have game week prep(film), installing game plan, putting in few new concepts, and game practice prep... Not enough time to work on mechanics That's all off-season work for the most part and takes sometimes a few years for the muscle memory to click Aaron Rodgers had horrible Mechanics coming out and got to sit for 3 years to correct them It's not a 1 day curve and I would bet Josh's lower body Mechanics come back much improved next year 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, UConn James said: Whatever Josh Allen is going to do in this offseason with Palmer, et al. he’s gotta put some emphasis on his grip or lack thereof on the football. Yesterday’s fumble came at a key point and the replay showed that the defender didn’t even touch the ball, it just dropped out of Josh’s hand like the hot potato of metaphor. The looseness with ball security has been an ongoing issue this season. He gets in trouble, gets pressured and becomes clumsy with his grip. That may be the Number 1 issue that he has to work on that is a weakness entirely his own, imo. he coulda easily fumbled on the td catch..he woulda got in anyway by just securing the ball and plowing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 OK Ron Obvious. Go eat Chichester Cathedral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, UConn James said: Patently obvious. But for whatever reason, it simply hasn’t been an area of emphasis by him or the coaching. This is untrue. Josh has talked about working on it with the running back coach and the stick and explained one problem is the limits on “how hard you hit the QB in practice”. You can see that he does different things with the ball when he’s being tackled than he used to - in traffic he now uses the “claw” angled grip they teach and tries to get his other arm around it. He got hauled out of the pile in Dallas *by the ball* and hung on. He has two unsolved problems: 1) when he’s trying to escape and still throw, and hasn’t put it away yet 2) when he’s trying to reach for the first down He also has more progress to be made, but it has been an area of emphasis and he has been working on it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 maybe he watched Shady too much waving that pigskin around 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 His left wrist kind of flops around when he runs. Watch his 40 from the combine. I wonder if somebody has research on how many of his fumbles are when the ball is in his left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Wonderful insight Thank you for adding so much to this post and making this forum a wonderful place to express ones opinion ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I don't know that there's a lot he can do with that issue in the offseason, but I think when training camp happens next summer, there should be some drill work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 please also have him work on the running backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyo321 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 He just needs to spend $5 and hope the refs don't catch him. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 5 hours ago, TigerJ said: I don't know that there's a lot he can do with that issue in the offseason, but I think when training camp happens next summer, there should be some drill work on it. There’s probably a good bit if he puts his mind to it. There may be some areas of specific strengthening. There may be some habits of how he handles the ball as he tries to extend plays. There may be some reflexes he needs to develop to quickly secure the ball better when contact is imminent. 20 minutes ago, Toyo321 said: He just needs to spend $5 and hope the refs don't catch him. LOL Oh, I’m sure that wouldn’t affect his throwing or hand off abilities at all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Must have studied at the Travis Henry School of Fumbling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 How much better can he get at fumbling. He even just does it on purpose now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 It's getting aware when he takes off more than technique. Most of his fumbles came tackled from behind, some really easy like in this game. When he power runs through tackles he is solid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 19 hours ago, UConn James said: Whatever Josh Allen is going to do in this offseason with Palmer, et al. he’s gotta put some emphasis on his grip or lack thereof on the football. Yesterday’s fumble came at a key point and the replay showed that the defender didn’t even touch the ball, it just dropped out of Josh’s hand like the hot potato of metaphor. The looseness with ball security has been an ongoing issue this season. He gets in trouble, gets pressured and becomes clumsy with his grip. That may be the Number 1 issue that he has to work on that is a weakness entirely his own, imo. He needs to be better at securing the ball when he runs. However, on that particular play, he was (1) still behind the LOS, (2) still in the process of deciding to run or throw as he was moving forward and was holding the ball accordingly, and (3) the ball absolutely was hit by Mercilus. It wasn't a completely reckless play on Allen's part. Those things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: He needs to be better at securing the ball when he runs. However, on that particular play, he was (1) still behind the LOS, (2) still in the process of deciding to run or throw as he was moving forward and was holding the ball accordingly, and (3) the ball absolutely was hit by Mercilus. It wasn't a completely reckless play on Allen's part. Those things happen. Fumbling while rushing can absolutely be fixed - its the way he holds the ball lower and away from his chest. He needs to focus on that this offseason, too many guys seemed to be punching at it. He also needs to just slide more. As for just general fumbling - LJ had 12 in 7 starts in 2019 and 9 in 15 starts in 2018. For a running QB you're more likely to fumble than probably any other player - but Allens problems this year were more prevalent. Regarding the play in this one that turned the game - Holding the ball on your hip with 1 hand in the pocket... is not secure. I felt he was careless there. Keep the ball up high where you can throw or tuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dneveu said: Fumbling while rushing can absolutely be fixed - its the way he holds the ball lower and away from his chest. He needs to focus on that this offseason, too many guys seemed to be punching at it. He also needs to just slide more. As for just general fumbling - LJ had 12 in 7 starts in 2019 and 9 in 15 starts in 2018. For a running QB you're more likely to fumble than probably any other player - but Allens problems this year were more prevalent. Regarding the play in this one that turned the game - Holding the ball on your hip with 1 hand in the pocket... is not secure. I felt he was careless there. Keep the ball up high where you can throw or tuck it. I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. Edited January 6, 2020 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. If he keeps both hands on it and keeps the ball high (as awkward as it looks and sounds to move forward in the pocket with the ball like that) he probably doesn't fumble. It seems like the 2nd pat is when he loses grip on the ball, and mercilus hits him at basically the same time. He's moving around there like Favre used to... and Favre had the most fumbles like. ever. Edited January 6, 2020 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I will uncharacteristically eschew a snarky comment and instead address the core issue that causes the fumbling — unless it’s a designed run, Allen is still much too indecisive once he leaves the pocket. He has no idea when to tuck the ball and run, when to slide, when to dive forward for the extra two yards, etc. This is how he got hurt against NE (and he did the same ‘run into defenders standing up’ thing again later in the season), and it’s how he fumbled twice in the playoff game (first one reversed on replay, but that doesn’t change the fact he was still in a vulnerable position when he got hit). This must be fixed or there will be ongoing issues with fumbling and injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yes, he does. And he can. Lamar Jackson fumbled 12 times in just 9 games last year and cut that down to just 9 in 15 games this year. Whatever he did, Josh needs to do. And I think he'll make that one of the centers of his attention this offseason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. It was a great play by Mercilus but I think it might come into what Daboll said early in the season about "need to keep two hands on the ball in the pocket" - or maybe just keeping the ball up higher where a lineman can't get a hand on it. I guess I need to look at what some other QB do in that situation. Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him? Wow, rewatching that in real time, it's maybe even worse. D-Dawk has no one to block so he does a the slowest 360 spin looking for a blocker and completely whiffs. Side Note: Quinton Spain may have hard the surest tackle of the day for the Bills! Edited January 6, 2020 by Motorin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It was a great play by Mercilus but I think it might come into what Daboll said early in the season about "need to keep two hands on the ball in the pocket" - or maybe just keeping the ball up higher where a lineman can't get a hand on it. I guess I need to look at what some other QB do in that situation. Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him? Yeah, a tough call. I can see not having two hands on the ball if you are anticipating a throw. I have watched the play from different angles and I really think he was going to try to hit Beasley, who was separating from his defender and headed back toward the middle of the field. He just waited to long, when he probably should have tucked the ball and ran. And Mercilus made a great play. Yep. That was Dawkins not getting a hand or shoulder on Mercilus. Oh well, seemed to be a bit of that going on in the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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