The Bills should re-sign Shaq and J. Phillips

[TPS]

Both of these guys have bought into the process and should be re-signed. Statistically, I think they are the best options as well.

jordan Phillips is straightforward: 9.5 sacks on 460 defensive snaps. Compare that to A. DONALD who has 11 sacks on 823 defensive snaps. Hopefully, he'll be willing to take a home town discount. At any rate, signing him keeps their DT rotation in place and continuity is valuable. 

 

Shaq is the more interesting case. Many people want the Bills to go after yannick Ngakoue of the Jags. Compare their stats. Ngakoue has 8 sacks, 13 TFLs, and 13 QB hits on 680 defensive snaps; Shaq has 6.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 17 QB hits on 435 defensive snaps. There really is no comparison, Shaq is the better player based on production per snap. And, Again, continuity is valuable. The Bills should then draft an edge rusher in one of the first two rounds to groom behind Hughes. 

 

It would probably take $16-20 million/ year, but it would lock them in for their next 4-year super bowl run. If D. Johnson continues to develop, then they could also move on from Murphy which saves them $7 mil.  Shaq has been more productive anyway, and should be the starting LDE. 

 

At any rate, I think this may be the best route for the Bills, and it keeps the D nearly intact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1ManRaid]

I feel like I've read this a dozen times in the last month.  Must be my mind playing tricks on me.

[WMDman]

though this has been discussed to death, I agree

[IgotBILLStopay]

since this has been discussed at length - to save this thread let me introduce a new wrinkle - COMP PICKS.

 

That consideration alone makes it very unlikely we resign both, though I would welcome the continuity.

[White Linen]

I really haven't thought of re-signing these two players until now, so I'l need some time. 

[MJS]

Let Lawson walk. His play is pretty average. If there isn't a lot of interest for him, maybe give him a short extension till we can find someone to replace him.

 

I'd sign Phillips to a short deal. I don't see him as the type of player to keep giving it his all once he gets paid, but I could be wrong.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Let Lawson walk. His play is pretty average. If there isn't a lot of interest for him, maybe give him a short extension till we can find someone to replace him.

 

I'd sign Phillips to a short deal. I don't see him as the type of player to keep giving it his all once he gets paid, but I could be wrong.

I disagree. I think Shaq  has been our best all around DL this season.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I disagree. I think Shaq  has been our best all around DL this season.

 

He probably has, which makes him average. Nobody on our line is a dominant pass rusher. Defensive ends who can stop the run, but can't produce sacks, grow on trees.

Edited December 18, 2019 by MJS

[Gambit]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

Let Lawson walk. His play is pretty average. If there isn't a lot of interest for him, maybe give him a short extension till we can find someone to replace him.

 

I'd sign Phillips to a short deal. I don't see him as the type of player to keep giving it his all once he gets paid, but I could be wrong.

Both Lawson and Phillips are playing well above average right now. I don't see how anyone can say otherwise with how well they have been this year. Letting either of them walk is a huge mistake.

[Reader]

To add to the earlier post and others mentioning these two. Where would you draw that line in terms of resigning them? How much do you think the Bills should offer?

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Both Lawson and Phillips are playing well above average right now. I don't see how anyone can say otherwise with how well they have been this year. Letting either of them walk is a huge mistake.

Phillips, absolutely. Lawson? No. What about his play, from a national perspective, is above average?

 

My concern with Phillips is not that he is playing average. He's playing out of his mind right now. I am concerned that he will not keep it up on the long term. I also think DT is an area of strength. We have Ed Oliver who SHOULD be getting more playing time and the focus should be on developing him. We also have the other Phillips coming back.

Edited December 18, 2019 by MJS

[Buffalo Junction]

This article should be read before considering the OPs discussion topic...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/34057/bills-dogs-shaq-lawson-and-jordan-phillips-setting-tone-for-defense%3fplatform=amp

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Reader said:

To add to the earlier post and others mentioning these two. Where would you draw that line in terms of resigning them? How much do you think the Bills should offer?

 

I don't think anyone on this board knows what each one of these guys value is on the open market.

That's the issue right now.

I will bet dollars to donuts that Beane will be negotiating the best he can.

 We all will have to wait to see what happens.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would love to have both guys back but it depends on how much they ask for. 

 

Does anyone one have any idea what kind of contacts we are looking at here?

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

I feel like I've read this a dozen times in the last month.  Must be my mind playing tricks on me.

 

 

It's not a legit topic unless 3 threads on it can be found within the first 2 pages of TSW.

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Phillips, absolutely. Lawson? No. What about his play, from a national perspective, is above average?

 

My concern with Phillips is not that he is playing average. He's playing out of his mind right now. I am concerned that he will not keep it up on the long term.

The nicest thing I can say for Lawson is his play has gotten better every year he’s been here. Question is, has he peaked? 
He was knocked for being injury prone. Been healthy for a bit now. 
Knocked for no pass rush, but he’s getting home quite a bit now. 
He is obviously quite stout against the run, and I thought he played his best game ever against Baltimore. 
Looking back they should of taken the 5th year option. One more year of decent production was worth it to see how much better he may or may not be. 
Just my own opinion but it looks to me like he found a gear he’s never used before. That would probably be on the coaches for getting the most out of him. 
I don’t have a high value for him or Phillips. Good players. Not break the bank players. 

[John from Riverside]

I also think they should be resigned.....dont let good players get away because another player MIGHT be good for you.......

 

Let Star and Murphy walk

[TPS]

Sorry. Mods, please move to an existing thread.

[Warcodered]

 

[Buffalo Junction]

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would love to have both guys back but it depends on how much they ask for. 

 

Does anyone one have any idea what kind of contacts we are looking at here?

I’d imagine around $7-$8MM a year for Shaq unless he has a freak game and gets over 10 sacks. Phillips is harder to estimate because we’re looking at an anomalous year that’s top 5 in production. Phillips is likely getting a big offer or two from a desperate team.... but.... Phillips knows the difference between a good and bad organization. 

[Socal-805]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I disagree. I think Shaq  has been our best all around DL this season.

 

 

 

Maybe, and he was non-existent the prior 3 years as a 1st round pick.  PASS on him PLZ.

 

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I’d imagine around $7-$8MM a year for Shaq unless he has a freak game and gets over 10 sacks. Phillips is harder to estimate because we’re looking at an anomalous year that’s top 5 in production. Phillips is likely getting a big offer or two from a desperate team.... but.... Phillips knows the difference between a good and bad organization. 

 

That is how I see it so far.

Both will be looking for 4 year deals IMO.

 

[Cripple Creek]

What about Tre? Shouldn't he be extended?

[Buddo]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I don't think anyone on this board knows what each one of these guys value is on the open market.

That's the issue right now.

I will bet dollars to donuts that Beane will be negotiating the best he can.

 We all will have to wait to see what happens.

 

Pretty much this.

 

The only thing I would say, is that while  they would both get good offers in FA, neither is going to be bank busting.

 

High end, not necessarily top end. As such, they should both (hopefully) be affordable.

 

Fwiw, I think it's no coincidence that the improvement in stopping the run, has come with the increase in snaps, that Lawson in particular, has got.

 

As to the notion of letting them walk to get compensatory picks, well, to me, that's inane. You've got 1st and 2nd round picks, playing up towards their draft status, and you want to let them walk for comp picks, the best of which is going to be a late 3rd rounder. Doubt that is part of the 'process' for acquiring talent.

[TheFunPolice]

why create a hole at DT?

 

Re-sign Phillips to a 4 year, $55 million deal with a bunch guaranteed. We've got the cap space and he is young and has really bought into the system here. 

 

Going forward you have Star, Oliver, Harry and Phillips at DT. That's a nice rotation. 

 

It's time to stack some talent. Why have a great 26 year old DT who is playing extremely well, let him walk, then spend a high draft pick to replace him?

 

INSTEAD, keep that DT and then stack talent with that high round pick. We don't have the nutzo QB contract so take advantage of that! 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[ColoradoBills]

21 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

Pretty much this.

 

The only thing I would say, is that while  they would both get good offers in FA, neither is going to be bank busting.

 

High end, not necessarily top end. As such, they should both (hopefully) be affordable.

 

Fwiw, I think it's no coincidence that the improvement in stopping the run, has come with the increase in snaps, that Lawson in particular, has got.

 

As to the notion of letting them walk to get compensatory picks, well, to me, that's inane. You've got 1st and 2nd round picks, playing up towards their draft status, and you want to let them walk for comp picks, the best of which is going to be a late 3rd rounder. Doubt that is part of the 'process' for acquiring talent.

 

You, Beane and I would like the bolded.  LOL

As for "comp picks" I don't personally get what people get concerned about.  If you get them you get them.

With all the cash Beane has to work with I don't see the Bills qualifying for them this coming year.

[NewEra]

I feel that we should let @TPS go after the season.  His contract is up and just doesn’t bring enough to the table creating quality threads.  His responses are forgettable as well, bringing down his value even more.  

[dwight in philly]

57 minutes ago, TPS said:

Sorry. Mods, please move to an existing thread.

Is it that important? Thread police out in full force as always 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Socal-805 said:

 

Maybe, and he was non-existent the prior 3 years as a 1st round pick.  PASS on him PLZ.

 

 

 

 

You dont "pass" on your own good players when they mature....you sign them

[Socal-805]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You dont "pass" on your own good players when they mature....you sign them

 

 

Mature = Feel like playing in a CONTRACT year?

 

Nope = PASS

 

 

[BillsPride12]

I understood and was in favor that these guys would probably be moving on to greener pastures after this year going into this season but wow it's really going to be a much more complicated situation now.  Not only have we gotten a lot of production out of these guys but these guys really bring some bravado and have become a huge part of the defensive identity of this team.  It seems like both guys have bought into what McDermott is selling.  I am all for getting as much continuity as possible but the biggest question will obviously be can we afford to resign both of them or at least one of them?  Because you know all the McBeane draft picks White, Edmunds, Oliver, Milano will be getting extended offers.  Will be the most interesting offseason of Beane yet. 

[TPS]

44 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I feel that we should let @TPS go after the season.  His contract is up and just doesn’t bring enough to the table creating quality threads.  His responses are forgettable as well, bringing down his value even more.  

Happy Holidays to you too.

[hjnick]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You dont "pass" on your own good players when they mature....you sign them

 

Good DT, definitely try to resign Phillips...

 

Shaq is a different situation.  We thought so 'highly' coming into this year that we passed on his 5th year of his deal...

So this year Shaq is playing for a new deal.  So has he really matured or is he just balling out THIS year so he can get a good contract?

Most of the time people that are only playing for a deal revert back to their 'normal' not hair on fire performance.

[BmarvB]

2 hours ago, TPS said:

Both of these guys have bought into the process and should be re-signed. Statistically, I think they are the best options as well.

jordan Phillips is straightforward: 9.5 sacks on 460 defensive snaps. Compare that to A. DONALD who has 11 sacks on 823 defensive snaps. Hopefully, he'll be willing to take a home town discount. At any rate, signing him keeps their DT rotation in place and continuity is valuable. 

 

Shaq is the more interesting case. Many people want the Bills to go after yannick Ngakoue of the Jags. Compare their stats. Ngakoue has 8 sacks, 13 TFLs, and 13 QB hits on 680 defensive snaps; Shaq has 6.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 17 QB hits on 435 defensive snaps. There really is no comparison, Shaq is the better player based on production per snap. And, Again, continuity is valuable. The Bills should then draft an edge rusher in one of the first two rounds to groom behind Hughes. 

 

It would probably take $16-20 million/ year, but it would lock them in for their next 4-year super bowl run. If D. Johnson continues to develop, then they could also move on from Murphy which saves them $7 mil.  Shaq has been more productive anyway, and should be the starting LDE. 

 

At any rate, I think this may be the best route for the Bills, and it keeps the D nearly intact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Get them both signed. They proved themselves this season

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, hjnick said:

 

Good DT, definitely try to resign Phillips...

 

Shaq is a different situation.  We thought so 'highly' coming into this year that we passed on his 5th year of his deal...

So this year Shaq is playing for a new deal.  So has he really matured or is he just balling out THIS year so he can get a good contract?

Most of the time people that are only playing for a deal revert back to their 'normal' not hair on fire performance.

 

Shaq's 5th year option was 9.5 million.  His new contract (wherever that is) won't be THAT high I don't think.

Personally I don't think Shaq is playing well this year just for the money, he was in a weird situation and seems to be finding his way.

It happens that way sometimes.

[section122]

2 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

since this has been discussed at length - to save this thread let me introduce a new wrinkle - COMP PICKS.

 

That consideration alone makes it very unlikely we resign both, though I would welcome the continuity.

 

Bills will be active again in FA this year.  Comp picks are still a year away imo.

 

2 hours ago, MJS said:

 

He probably has, which makes him average. Nobody on our line is a dominant pass rusher. Defensive ends who can stop the run, but can't produce sacks, grow on trees.

 

Yeah the Bills should add a stud pass rusher like a Frank Clark or a Dee Ford.  Maybe a Carlos Dunlap or Calais Campbell.

 

Oh wait they have equal to or as many sacks as Shaq.

 

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

why create a hole at DT?

 

Re-sign Phillips to a 4 year, $55 million deal with a bunch guaranteed. We've got the cap space and he is young and has really bought into the system here. 

 

Going forward you have Star, Oliver, Harry and Phillips at DT. That's a nice rotation. 

 

It's time to stack some talent. Why have a great 26 year old DT who is playing extremely well, let him walk, then spend a high draft pick to replace him?

 

INSTEAD, keep that DT and then stack talent with that high round pick. We don't have the nutzo QB contract so take advantage of that! 

 

 

 

I have been preaching this!!! Why make holes when they have so much money.  Time to stack talent not just replace talent.  As for you worried about them getting paid and taking it easy, you haven't been paying attention.  That is not the type of players the Bills have on the team.  They have guys that go to work, embrace the team idea, and work not only for themselves but each other.  If they were money focused players they would have already been jettisoned.  

 

Lawson and Phillips have not only been productive but they have brought an attitude to this defense.  These dudes are playing with fire and intensity and producing.  You don't let that go.  I loved the Shaq pick and now he is ballin. Jordan is on the sidelines pumping the crowd up going crazy.  How can you not want these guys to stay Buffalo Bills.  

 

My name is section122 and I would like your vote for Jordan Phillips fan club president. 

[JohninMinn.]

Two Words:  {Marcell Dareus}. Get paid...Get fat... Get Lazy.. Get Cut or traded....and the beat goes on.

[Orlando Tim]

The cost is obviously huge but paying either guy 15 million a year for 4 or more years seem high and excessive. If either can be had for 3 years and 30 million then I am all in but both scare me as guys that once paid they will slack some.

[Don Otreply]

I think they should, it’s kind of a no brainer imo. When a group is working this good together it would be like breaking up the Beatles. 

Its gonna take some doing to resign the ones we should, and bring in upgrades where needed, glad I’m not footing the bill. ?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bangarang]

10 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

Two Words:  {Marcell Dareus}. Get paid...Get fat... Get Lazy.. Get Cut or traded....and the beat goes on.

What are you saying?