McDermott Weds Presser: Sullivan asks whether Allen is an improvement over Tyrod

[Jrb1979]

10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This should be repeated over and over. 

One game doesn't make a career but he showed be more improved and he's not. His best game was last year against Miami. Since then he hasn't been as good. He still doesn't read the field well at all. Big hands and a rocket arm doesn't get you far if you can't hit open guys. 

[whatdrought]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I do see improvements in some spots which are encouraging.  It's not coming all together and IMO....he should be ahead of where he's at now.  
I have been wait and see all season but man...our offense hasn't turned the corner and I'm worried it never will.  

 

Why is this?... He was seen as a project and he's just now at 20 starts... People forget that there were real NFL minds saying he could be a stud given time to develop, and that timeline was at least a year on the bench and then some growing pains in play. 

 

 

 

[Jobot]

Really a forced and ignorant question.  I wish head coaches would try to embarrass the reporters a little bit when they ask these questions and just challenge them on the though process that went into asking the question.

 

Ask the reporter:

What differences do you think exist between Tyrod and Allen regarding the spots in their careers in considering those 40 games?

What other statistics did you consider when deciding the 20 game passing statistics made sense.

What did Tyrods last 10 compared to Allen's last 10 look like? Seems more appropriate considering A ROOKIE QB

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

That’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about -as evidenced in most of your posts. Tyrod had 4 years in the League before becoming a Bill. He was at his peak on Day 1 here and he actually digressed once every team knew he would never attack the middle of the field. Allen has 18 games played in 1.5 years. He continues to improve. 

You need only have to remove the unsubstantiated hate.

 

My first memory of TT was the touchdown to Percy Harvin vs. the colts... pretty sure that was as good as he ever was. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

That’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about -as evidenced in most of your posts. Tyrod had 4 years in the League before becoming a Bill. He was at his peak on Day 1 here and he actually digressed once every team knew he would never attack the middle of the field. Allen has 18 games played in 1.5 years. He continues to improve. 

You need only have to remove the unsubstantiated hate.

Exactly, he had 4 years to practice his craft before having to take over a team. Having the luxury to do that in any profession would give you the leg up on a new employee.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Why is this?... He was seen as a project and he's just now at 20 starts... People forget that there were real NFL minds saying he could be a stud given time to develop, and that timeline was at least a year on the bench and then some growing pains in play. 

 

 

 

 

There were NFL minds that will say any top 10 QB could be a stud.  Their pre-draft predictions do not over take what's happening now.

He's not playing well.  

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Unreliable. Much like the other takes on Allen recently.  

 

What was the criticism of Allen in the offseason? Needs to up his completion % and clean up the short/underneath stuff. Worked on it in the offseason and did it. 

 

Then through first 4 games it was: stop throwing INTs. Worked on it. Done. 

 

Now it's 'he can't hit a deep ball'...all you want to do is complain about what isn't working without looking at what is. It's beyond repetitive, it's just lazy at this point.

He’s currently the worst deep ball thrower in nfl history iirc.  
 

He’s improved in areas that were once a question mark.  Athletes some times do that.

[4_kidd_4]

Lol, Sully still gettin ya goats! 

 

 

[eball]

39 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It's a fair question

 

It's neither a fair nor enlightening question.  It's an attempt by a bitter columnist to make himself sound edgy or clever.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

11 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

One game doesn't make a career but he showed be more improved and he's not. His best game was last year against Miami. Since then he hasn't been as good. He still doesn't read the field well at all. Big hands and a rocket arm doesn't get you far if you can't hit open guys. 

 

He reads the field. Sometimes very well, sometimes not. Fact is you just aren't going to hit those intermediate throws if you are not.  Besides, there is plenty of Cover 1 stuff out there pointing out how his eyes are manipulating safeties, or he is going through reads, etc.  He just doesn't do it consistently well enough. 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not just below league average, they were HISTORICALLY bad for most of last season. 

 

I just think McDermott is woefully incompetent offensively. His puts value on certain offensive players that leave you scratching your head. 

Just wondering if you happened to look at the talent on the OL, WR, TE last season.

 (2017 we had a better OL, but pitiful everywhere else)....while starting a rookie QB most of the year.  Of course they were going to be terrible.  Everyone knew they’d be terrible

[HappyDays]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Having said that I can see why Jerry asked that with those stats going around and with the way Josh played last weekend which had a lot of Tyrod traits to it. 

 

This seems like an unfair comparison. The criticism of Tyrod was he never was able to put up a lot or passing yards due to an unwillingness to throw the ball. Allen threw for 266 yards against Cleveland. Tyrod did that 10 times total over his 3 seasons here. Not to say Allen had a monster game but but for me is already past what Tyrod was ever able to do, especially in 2016 and 2017. And the arrow is pointing up. It's not like he needs to develop the ability to anticipate throws from scratch, he does need to be more consistent though.

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

There were NFL minds that will say any top 10 QB could be a stud.  Their pre-draft predictions do not over take what's happening now.

He's not playing well.  

 

Right, but what I'm saying, is why are your expectations the way they are? Why do you look at what he's doing wrong and say he's behind where he should be, instead of looking at what he's doing well and saying "he's way ahead of where anyone expected him to be even this offseason." 

 

He has at time shown all of the skills necessary to be successful, he just needs to start batching them together. 

[Captain Hindsight]

Tyrod was consistent, steady

 

Josh is more higher variance but I think his floor is about where Tyrod's ceiling is. I'll take those odds.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not just below league average, they were HISTORICALLY bad for most of last season. 

 

I just think McDermott is woefully incompetent offensively. His puts value on certain offensive players that leave you scratching your head. 

 

I want to give him a break a little bit for some of it though.  Having to flip flop with peterman and Anderson and Allen being hurt.

 

Still though...they I believe ended up with only around 16 points per game in 2018.  And that was WITH the two 40 point games against Jets and Dolphins.

[r00tabaga]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they are not. He did not play well on Sunday. When I said it after the game you all jumped on me and countless people have come out and said it since. I didn't say bench him, or move on, or he is done. I said he played poorly on Sunday and he needs to play better. 

I agree w this

[uticaclub]

Josh's floor = Tyrod's ceiling. Let's just hope Josh Allen is a penthouse instead of a loft apartment.  

Edited November 13, 2019 by uticaclub

[Tesla03]

44 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Tyrod was overall a competent NFL qb.  He was flawed but overall led the Bill's to its first playoff appearance in 20 years.  Difference is Allen is in year 2 Taylor was year 8.  Allen has improved nicely from the draft to now.  I think Allen still has loads of potential and pegging Allen as a game manager is an attempt as an insult.  

 

Allen is essentially a game manager right now

 

he needs the defense to hold opponents under 20 points or he can't win games. that's the pure definition of a game manager 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Tesla03

[Nextmanup]

57 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Lol. What a joke. 

Boy, you're not kidding.

 

McDermott never says anything and always makes a few implied statements that we already assumed to be true and never need to be made by the HC ever. 

 

Like "We are trying to improve constantly" or "I am trying to do what's best for the team."

No *****, coach!

 

 

[John from Riverside]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott is right not to compare and I think most people know that Josh is not really like Tyrod and with Tyrod you knew quite early (or at least some of us did) that you were at the ceiling. That is not the case with Josh. 

 

Having said that I can see why Jerry asked that with those stats going around and with the way Josh played last weekend which had a lot of Tyrod traits to it. 

My problem with the question is he already knows the answer

 

One of these guys is a 2nd year player who was raw coming in to begin with

The other player had been in the NFL for years.....

 

This much has been proven....if you could contain Tyrod in the pocket your chances of beating him were very good

 

I have a lot of confidence this will NOT be the case with Josh Allen

[wagon127]

Tyrod Taylor had 4 games in his final season with the Bills, of scoring 3 points or less. Josh Allen has only had 1 game, I believe they were shut out by the Packers last year.

[quinnearlysghost88]

44 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Hmm, not sure I have a problem with the question.  They've gone through the "process" to get Allen and build the team they want, and they are no better off...

no better off because Allen's first 20 games are identical to Tyrod's numbers from his sixth and seventh year in the league?

[Nextmanup]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott is right not to compare and I think most people know that Josh is not really like Tyrod and with Tyrod you knew quite early (or at least some of us did) that you were at the ceiling. That is not the case with Josh. 

 

Having said that I can see why Jerry asked that with those stats going around and with the way Josh played last weekend which had a lot of Tyrod traits to it. 

It's incredibly relevant.  This administration kicked Tyrod to the curb because he was "not good enough" and replaced him with a guy who is virtually identical in most important ways.

 

Sure, they are different quarterbacks in unimportant ways (height, attributes, strengths and weaknesses) but overall they are 2 remarkably similar quarterbacks with stats at the bottom of the league.

 

Gotta love Jerry!
 

 

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It's a fair question but also kind of ignores so many of the nuances.      The stats may be the same, the wins and other results may be the same, but would you rather pay a veteran a 30.5 Million dollar contract for two years at the ages of 29 and 30, when you already know the veteran is only average to below average.  Or do you want to pay a younger player 21 Million dollars for four years from the ages of 22-25, when the younger player is already at the level of the veteran and may be able to grow.

 

Bottom line is after the playoff game in Jacksonville where some of the worst quarterbacking I've ever seen in the league took place you couldnt keep Tyrod.   Keeping him, and bringing in a rookie would have been bad for the locker room which was incredibly loyal to Tyrod.  They needed a fresh start, and I am glad they have it.

It's a very interesting question for people like us to discuss.   It's a totally unfair question for Sullivan to ask.

 

Sullivan is a smart guy.  He knew exactly what McD would say if McD handled the question well.  He asked the question because if McD didn't handle it well, he could go after Allen or McD or both.  In other words, he asked the question to set up McDermott to make a mistake.  

 

McDermott, being the gentleman he is, answered respectfully.  Belichick would have blown him off.  

 

Two years from now Sully will be complaining that he's one of only a few guys covering the Bills who hasn't had a quality one-on-one sit down with McD.  He'll  blame it on McD not wanting to answer the tough questions.   The truth will be that McD already knows who Sully is and what he's up to, and he isn't going to reward Sully with interviews or anything else. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Right, but what I'm saying, is why are your expectations the way they are? Why do you look at what he's doing wrong and say he's behind where he should be, instead of looking at what he's doing well and saying "he's way ahead of where anyone expected him to be even this offseason." 

 

He has at time shown all of the skills necessary to be successful, he just needs to start batching them together. 

 

Because he's not doing too much well.  If he was, we would score more points but we are again, not able to put points up.  

I think the bar is set low if you feel he's "way ahead" of what anyone expected.

 

This isn't 1995 anymore.  This is a new league where the rules in the NFL make it a passing league and we still can't do it.  

For someone who has fumbled 11 times and thrown 7 INT's....10 passing TD's and 26th in passing yards per game isn't enough.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

It's incredibly relevant.  This administration kicked Tyrod to the curb because he was "not good enough" and replaced him with a guy who is virtually identical in most important ways.

 

Sure, they are different quarterbacks in unimportant ways (height, attributes, strengths and weaknesses) but overall they are 2 remarkably similar quarterbacks with stats at the bottom of the league.

 

Gotta love Jerry!
 

 

Unimportant things like strength and...attributes...

[CommonCents]

He upped his completion percentage with the majority of his passes being thrown at guys who have the wing spans of an 8th grader.

 

The only negatives I have with Allen from this season are his adjustments at the LOS and his deep ball.

 

I think coach McConservative is riding him so hard for turnovers that Allen is throwing a missle instead of making a pass. His launch angle on deep balls is bad right now.

 

Plenty of reasons to still be optimistic with Allen. The Bills are a flawed team don’t put it all on the QB.

 

[whatdrought]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Because he's not doing too much well.  If he was, we would score more points but we are again, not able to put points up.  

I think the bar is set low if you feel he's "way ahead" of what anyone expected.

 

This isn't 1995 anymore.  This is a new league where the rules in the NFL make it a passing league and we still can't do it.  

For someone who has fumbled 11 times and thrown 7 INT's....10 passing TD's and 26th in passing yards per game isn't enough.

 

Okay. You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with everything you just posted. ?

[Dablitzkrieg]

38 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Jerry.

 

Some things you can always count on.

 

I wonder which perennially negative, glass half-empty poster on TBD he is.

 

...there are a few that fit the bill.

 

 

 

 

 

Seven and Nine

[Mat68]

12 minutes ago, Tesla03 said:

 

Allen is essentially a game manager right now

 

he needs the defense to hold opponents under 20 points or he can't win games. that's the pure definition of a game manager 

That's not a negative thing.  He is pretty successful at it.  The game winning drives and 4th quarter play are 2 areas Taylor never excelled at.  That's what gives me hope that Allen can still get better.

[Chandler#81]

50 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Haven't you people herd of the Sophomore Slump?  

 

lol    I kill myself 

 

Well Hurry Up!

[Hebert19]

This tyrod allen thing is a joke.  Do we even care that tyrod was a vet at the time...not a rookie and second year guy.  Or maybe that woods Goodwin clay sammy may have been a better supporting cast.  Ridiculous 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Perfectly fair. I thought he made some nice plays but he didn’t have a good game. What some can’t understand is that he is going to have good games and bad games. Each game is not a referendum on his career. His career is not on the line with each one. He’s a young QB who was raw coming in and is still learning. Which is not what Tyrod was. Stats only tell part of the story. Though it makes an intriguing question for the media.  Allen will have until the end of next year at least before a reasonable conclusion is drawn. 

 

Don't disagree with any of this. As I have said elsewhere until now these were all free swings for Josh. Now is the point when it starts to be be real. @Shaw66 said it best on the other thread - it is the next 20 that will tell us what we have. 

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Unreliable. Much like the other takes on Allen recently.  

 

What was the criticism of Allen in the offseason? Needs to up his completion % and clean up the short/underneath stuff. Worked on it in the offseason and did it. 

 

Then through first 4 games it was: stop throwing INTs. Worked on it. Done. 

 

Now it's 'he can't hit a deep ball'...all you want to do is complain about what isn't working without looking at what is. It's beyond repetitive, it's just lazy at this point.

 

Sorry? When did I make any of those arguments? 

[Chris66]

Jerry's awsome. Bet McDermott loved that question

[Questionable]

A lot of hate here for people who buck the status quo.

 

Revoke press passes?   Punch him in the mouth?  All because he's pointing out the obvious? 

 

He's your pick McDermott.   At some point you are going to need to own up to his bad play and people want to hear more of an answer than its the process, or the mind growth set.  

 

McDermott consistently points to the short and intermediate passes as some kind proof Allen is improving.   Check downs to pad stats isn't growth.  Accurately and consistently delivering slants to give receivers YAC is growth.  Improvement on ball placement is growth.  Connecting with the deep ball once or twice a game to back off the defense is growth. 

 

Its clear this team doesn't really have an offensive identity.  McDermott has made that clear.  If we have to throw 100 times we will.   If we have to run 100 times we will. 

 

Its clear the game plan against Cleveland was to expose them in the passing game.   That was the game plan and McDermott was on board with it.   Allen under delivered. 

 

What I hate is the smoke and mirrors.   He had a bad game McDermott, admit it. He's not progressing the way you'd like him to McDermott, admit it. 

 

Unfortunately with the upcoming schedule looming on the horizon, and lack of progress from Allen, McDermott is going to come under a lot more fire from the media with each passing loss. 

 

The line of questioning isn't going to get any easier, especially after a 6-2 start and serious playoff aspirations dwindling.

 

Its a matter of time before the national media begins to apply pressure on McDermott and Allen. 

 

Do we crash and burn with Allen or make a Qb switch to save a promising season with playoffs aspirations?   That's going to be the national media narrative if we lose to Miami and Denver.  

 

 

[ngbills]

Forget the you are comparing a vet to a rookie.

 

You are comparing an afterthought, 6th round QB, that was never supposed to even start or make the team to the Bills highest picked QB ever, who is the QB of the future. Sorry but the expectations for Allen should be considerably more than a guy like Tyrod. 

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This seems like an unfair comparison. The criticism of Tyrod was he never was able to put up a lot or passing yards due to an unwillingness to throw the ball. Allen threw for 266 yards against Cleveland. Tyrod did that 10 times total over his 3 seasons here. Not to say Allen had a monster game but but for me is already past what Tyrod was ever able to do, especially in 2016 and 2017. And the arrow is pointing up. It's not like he needs to develop the ability to anticipate throws from scratch, he does need to be more consistent though.

 

I think Sunday he held the ball, failed to see wide open receivers and bailed clean pockets early. All traits that drove me stark raving mad about the non-throwing Quarterback. 

 

I have not said "Josh has been no better than Tyrod to this point" because regardless of the numbers I don't think that is true. He was very reminiscent of Tyrod against Cleveland though. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Sorry? When did I make any of those arguments? 

 

Pretty sure you said this-

 

Josh Allen is in over his head as an NFL QB. 

[GG]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Unreliable. Much like the other takes on Allen recently.  

 

What was the criticism of Allen in the offseason? Needs to up his completion % and clean up the short/underneath stuff. Worked on it in the offseason and did it. 

 

Then through first 4 games it was: stop throwing INTs. Worked on it. Done. 

 

Now it's 'he can't hit a deep ball'...all you want to do is complain about what isn't working without looking at what is. It's beyond repetitive, it's just lazy at this point.

 

The actual criticism was that Allen needed to continue working on his mechanics and read the defenses better. 

 

What you're describing are the results, not the inputs.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

My problem with the question is he already knows the answer

 

One of these guys is a 2nd year player who was raw coming in to begin with

The other player had been in the NFL for years.....

 

This much has been proven....if you could contain Tyrod in the pocket your chances of beating him were very good

 

I have a lot of confidence this will NOT be the case with Josh Allen

 

John let me tell you as a former journalist who did a lot of soccer pressers in my time you are working angles to try and get interesting stories. I think Jerry knew he was being mischievous with the question - but sometimes you have to do that. 

 

Oh and I am no Jerry Sullivan fan - for a journalist and columnist his actual writing is beyond bad.