100% problem with the Deep Ball this year.

[Allen2Moulds]

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

[BillsBlue]

1 minute ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

Exactly how I feel about Josh and the deep ball he's just scared of throwing picks 

[cgg716]

8 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

The most accurate post in history. Jauron ball killing us again 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Your probably right. The coaches are brain washing him to play conservatively and protect the football so he is becoming scared to throw interceptions on the deep ball.

[Hebert19]

A little more air under the ball and he completes a couple again yesterday.  He just has to stop throwing them on a rope. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

BANG!!! These coaches have been stunting him all year and it's my biggest fear. Hell, he ran like a maniac last year and never fumbled. Why all the fumbles now. They have him so timid, it's sickening. This is an 8-1 team if they let us play ball. Maybe 9-0... I think we have it in us to get past NE if we unleashed the Kracken.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Just now, Hebert19 said:

A little more air under the ball and he completes a couple again yesterday.  He just has to stop throwing them on a rope. 

 

Thats true if Josh is maxing out his arm, but he is not. He can put air under it and throw it 80 yards. 

[Hebert19]

I'm saying throw those balls with more touch rather than rifling them 

[bmur66]

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

[BillsfanAZ]

19 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

I agree the coaches have him being ultra conservative.  We say now that we should just let him play and not worry about INTs but then when he throws INT's we will be complaining again. I can deal with INT's as long as he is throwing balls that his WR at least has a chance to get or the DB makes a good play. I cannot stand him just chucking it up in the air because he is under pressure and doesnt want to throw it away. 

4 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

Can I answer that next season?

[Allen2Moulds]

10 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I agree the coaches have him being ultra conservative.  We say now that we should just let him play and not worry about INTs but then when he throws INT's we will be complaining again. I can deal with INT's as long as he is throwing balls that his WR at least has a chance to get or the DB makes a good play. I cannot stand him just chucking it up in the air because he is under pressure and doesnt want to throw it away. 

Can I answer that next season?

Exactly, not all interceptions are equal.  If you have a guy deep and it's picked because of an under-throw, but it was the right call, it was at least a good decision, just a bad throw.  Not the hero ball, across the field type of garbage. Coaches have to tell him that they are ok with that.  Don't be afraid of a pick in that situation.  The other thing I hate, and some of it is on Josh, but I think this falls on Daboll even more is that we love to run it up the middle for 2 yards on 2nd and short, and than take a deep shot on 3rd and short.  They have those two things backwards. It drove me crazy yesterday, and we see it every-week. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Allen2Moulds

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I actually thought the deep one to McKenzie could have been on target (theoretical), but that it was over the wrong shoulder. 

[Ramza86]

If he really said that...then we have a major problem for his future.

 

I knew this season was about making him a more complete QB with the game managing and the improvement on the short passing....but...we cant have this next season.

 

I dont mind if he finishes the year learning to take what the defense gives. 

 

Hes been doing very well with that.....but he needs to be able to do both. Hes got to use that arm and hit downfield and play heroball...WHILE being smart and taking what the defense gives.

 

He has to be able to switch it on and off.

 

 

[BillsfanAZ]

8 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Exactly, not all interceptions are equal.  If you have a guy deep and it's picked because of an under-throw, but it was the right call, it was at least a good decision, just a bad throw.  Not the hero ball, across the field type of garbage. Coaches have to tell him that they are ok with that.  Don't be afraid of a pick in that situation.  The other thing I hate, and some of it is on Josh, but I think this falls on Daboll even more is that we love to run it up the middle for 2 yards on 2nd and short, and than take a deep shot on 3rd and short.  They have those two things backwards. It drove me crazy yesterday, and we see it every-week. 

I would like someone in the media to ask Allen or Daboll who makes the decision to throw deep on 3rd and short. It has happened several times this season and it has never worked. When it happened yesterday I was yelling NO, NO, NO. and losing my mind at the TV. My wife and dog left the room.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

37 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

 

100% agree with you, but not sure if it's something you can change mid season ether now.   If you try and change now I think you may be adding more confusion to him as to what to do and when.  The offense around him is also rather limited so would rather see them change their thinking when he has a better team around him. 

 

That doesn't help the crowd who thinks we can make a deep run this year, but think they are dreaming anyway.  Even if Josh opens it up,  overall not enough talent on the offensive side.  They still need either a true #1 WR or another top level 1A, a 10 year younger version of Frank Gore to compliment Singletary, and a tackle. 

 

And on defense, an elite pass rusher, plus CB help for Levi or maybe he'll be much improved with another year under his belt.  He has still played less than a full seaso nof games himself.

[RoyBatty is alive]

25 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

No, not on this team.

[HeHateMe]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

No, not on this team.

 

Could of got a prototype WR1 in the 2nd round this year... but .... 

[StHustle]

Playing like Tyrod Taylor 2.0 right now

[Mister Defense]

1 hour ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

 

Yes, at least part of the problem. I will now listen to what Allen said after the game. 

 

I think Allen looks very good otherwise and played very well against the Browns.  Adding the long ball, completing a decent percentage of those, will help him to take another step forward.

 

[Rc2catch]

21 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Playing like Tyrod Taylor 2.0 right now

That’s what I was gonna say. We took a big strong 6’5 guy with a cannon and coached him to be too safe with his throws. 
I don’t want to see the guy tossing picks every game, but I hate watching him miss over and over. He can’t lead a drive for a score consistently because he can’t hit enough passes accurately to sustain an entire drive. 

[Blank Stare]

Neutered him. 

[H2o]

57 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

Not since we traded Zay Jones 

[thenorthremembers]

59 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

Yes, he has been inactive the last two weeks.

[CheshireCT]

Being an NFL Quarterback is DEMANDING to say the last. The amount of responsibility for such a young guy to carry is really enormous. They are working on his game, it’s a process. The base game of any NFL quarterback has to be the short routes, because moving the chains is the most important thing. They’re focused on getting him to do this and make good decisions. Josh Allen seems to be a mentally strong guy for his age, and I think I’ll get through that. He has all the power necessary to throw the deep ball, so I’m not worried about that....it will come back in time.

 

As for the fumbles? It’s simple, this is a case of teams having more tape on a guy they didn’t have before and studying his weaknesses. This happens to every young QB in their early development - the weaknesses get exposed and then they have to fix the problems.

[Lurker]

I'd like to see them just forget about the deep ball.   I know you have to "keep the D honest."   But really, in today's NFL, who really relys on the deep ball anymore?  That's old school football.

 

Most high powered offenses today rely on short and intermediate throws and RUN AFTER THE CATCH.    That's the thing Buffalo can't seem to do with any frequency.   Singletary's 49-yard play against the Skins is the prototypical long ball in today's NFL:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/highlight-devin-singletary-s-49-yard-catch-and-run

[atlbillsfan1975]

The entire approach on game day is not to lose. I don’t doubt Josh is being coached this way. I don’t doubt Josh feels he can’t make mistakes. After watching Daboll’s reaction in the early games after interceptions, Josh is being coached all wrong. Can you imagine what Sean Peyton would be doing with Josh? What Andy Reed could make out of Josh’s arm?  Yesterday proved it, we have a coach who plays scared. This is a HC problem. I really wish someone would get to Sean and tell him to cut it loose and start trying to win games!  You can’t win games in the third quarter trying to run out the clock. You have a better statistical chance of making a first down than kicking a 53 yard field goal. 

Sean is a very smart guy, I hope he sees the errors in his ways. It’s correctable and then this team can make a little run and maybe win a playoff game. To do that, Josh will need to be Josh. Slinging the ball around. The defense would be better at defending a short field after an interception if Josh has also led the team on 4 touchdown drives. Only way this team really wins anything is Josh being the guy he was after the injury last year. 

[Mark80]

I honestly wonder if it is all his fault.  Some receivers seem to be letting up and then the ball sails over them.  I wonder if they are just not used to seeing that kind of throw and are not tracking it well.  Now, obviously I am not an NFL receiver, but I have had the opportunity to (try) and catch a ball from someone with an absolute rocket of an arm.  Like, ability to throw it over 60 yards kind of rocket.  It was extremely difficult to track when it was a long pass.  It just kept going and going and going.  Now, imagine it was from one of the best arms in the NFL.  Not even these receivers are used to seeing throws like this.  I seriously wonder if his arm is too big sometimes and making it difficult on the WRs and TEs too (like Knox's drop yesterday right through his hands).

 

If we could just hit 33-50% of those open deep balls then no one would be complaining about our offensive performances.  They are the difference IMO.

 

Obviously, some throws are also just completely over thrown, but that may not be the whole story. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Mark80

[USABuffaloFan]

Not writing this to bash Josh Allen, I like him and think he SOME DAY will be a great QB. The problem I have is the Bills could have won two more games with a passer that can hit the long ball. Can Josh throw far, YES. Does Josh have touch to drop a ball over the top shoulder, haven't seen that yet. He is 6-3 so what do you do about this that 9 games hasn't shown you. Can the Bills offense beat Baltimore, Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh and even Denver. Is this Bills team just a QB away? Can they win this year in the playoffs? If your answering YES than Barkley must be given a shot. If your not sure or NO then stay the course and see if Josh develops. I am not saying get rid of Josh, just saying you never hand someone a job without working for it. Josh's upside is huge if this is done right. He is not playing that much better than Taylor at this point of his career. Tough decision, at this point though I see this season's playoff chances in jeopardy with Josh playing like this. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by USABuffaloFan

[C.Biscuit97]

That’s McDermott challenge level bad.  
 

so many want to make excuses about his accuracy.  What good is a rocket if you don’t know where it’s going.  Brady has half of the arm strength and I guarantee his stats on this are far superior. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Not writing this to bash Josh Allen, I like him and think he SOME DAY will be a great QB. The problem I have is the Bills could have won two more games with a passer that can hit the long ball. Can Josh throw far, YES. Does Josh have touch to drop a ball over the top shoulder, haven't seen that yet. He is 6-3 so what do you do about this that 9 games hasn't shown you. Can the Bills offense beat Baltimore, Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh and even Denver. Is this Bills team just a QB away? Can they win this year in the playoffs? If your answering YES than Barkley must be given a shot. If your not sure or NO then stay the course and see if Josh develops. I am not saying get rid of Josh, just saying you never hand someone a job without working for it. Josh's upside is huge if this is done right. He is not playing that much better than Taylor at this point of his career. Tough decision, at this point though I see this season's playoff chances in jeopardy with Josh playing like this. 

 

As long as he continues to hit the 10 to 20 yards pass as well as he does, he stays in.  Barkley can't hit those throws like JA does, and its not even close. Those throws are also way more important than the occasional deep shot. 

[StHustle]

5 hours ago, CheshireCT said:

Being an NFL Quarterback is DEMANDING to say the last. The amount of responsibility for such a young guy to carry is really enormous. They are working on his game, it’s a process. The base game of any NFL quarterback has to be the short routes, because moving the chains is the most important thing. They’re focused on getting him to do this and make good decisions. Josh Allen seems to be a mentally strong guy for his age, and I think I’ll get through that. He has all the power necessary to throw the deep ball, so I’m not worried about that....it will come back in time.

 

We all wanted him to work on and get better at his short route passing and we understand the reasons why but we also didn't expect his deep-ball to disappear and have to "come back in time."

[Matt_In_NH]

Wow, I was thinking he was better last year but this year has missed everything.   I bet he has more INT's than completions on those.  Clearly an element he needs to work on.  The one to Mackenzie should have been an easy TD yesterday.  He seems to want to throw a frozen rope but needs to put some air under the ball and let the receiver go and get it.

 

He has improved a lot on short passes this year so maybe this is part of the next steps for him.

[Wayne Arnold]

How can anyone think a QB who can't come close to hitting on a long throw will be a great QB some day?

 

If Bills lose to the Dolphins on Sunday then I 100% expect Barkley to start vs. the Broncos on 11/24.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

That’s McDermott challenge level bad.  
 

so many want to make excuses about his accuracy.  What good is a rocket if you don’t know where it’s going.  Brady has half of the arm strength and I guarantee his stats on this are far superior. 

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games

 

I guess fumbles dont count?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, mattynh said:

 

I guess fumbles dont count?

 

NOPE ?

[USABuffaloFan]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

As long as he continues to hit the 10 to 20 yards pass as well as he does, he stays in.  Barkley can't hit those throws like JA does, and its not even close. Those throws are also way more important than the occasional deep shot. 

Sorry but Barkley has shown that ability and has a few 300 yards games. He doesn't have Josh's talent and all I am saying is are your ready not to be in the playoffs if Josh is your only choice?

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Not writing this to bash Josh Allen, I like him and think he SOME DAY will be a great QB. The problem I have is the Bills could have won two more games with a passer that can hit the long ball. Can Josh throw far, YES. Does Josh have touch to drop a ball over the top shoulder, haven't seen that yet. He is 6-3 so what do you do about this that 9 games hasn't shown you. Can the Bills offense beat Baltimore, Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh and even Denver. Is this Bills team just a QB away? Can they win this year in the playoffs? If your answering YES than Barkley must be given a shot. If your not sure or NO then stay the course and see if Josh develops. I am not saying get rid of Josh, just saying you never hand someone a job without working for it. Josh's upside is huge if this is done right. He is not playing that much better than Taylor at this point of his career. Tough decision, at this point though I see this season's playoff chances in jeopardy with Josh playing like this. 

Interesting stat. Where can we find them for every QB in the league?

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

How can anyone think a QB who can't come close to hitting on a long throw will be a great QB some day?

 

If Bills lose to the Dolphins on Sunday then I 100% expect Barkley to start vs. the Broncos on 11/24.

If we do this you minus well draft a QB rd 1 next year.

[USABuffaloFan]

3 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Wow, I was thinking he was better last year but this year has missed everything.   I bet he has more INT's than completions on those.  Clearly an element he needs to work on.  The one to Mackenzie should have been an easy TD yesterday.  He seems to want to throw a frozen rope but needs to put some air under the ball and let the receiver go and get it.

 

He has improved a lot on short passes this year so maybe this is part of the next steps for him.

Foster a week or two ago