Stats aside, Josh Allen looks better in year 2 than Mitch Trubisky.

[Allen2Moulds]

I know everyone will laugh at Mitch Trubisky now, but a lot of people were praising Trubisky, after the year he had last year.  I personally didn't see it.  They were able to mask a lot of his inefficiencies, but whenever he needed to make a big play (critical 3rd down/end of game) type of throw, he was off the mark more often than not.  Josh doesn't, and won't have the stats that Mitch had, but he passes the eyeball test.  He couldn't be any more different.  I'd like to hear all the self proclaimed experts, on how inaccurate Josh is.  That argument is getting a lot tougher with each passing game.  Will he make some boneheaded plays from time to time, absolutely.  So will Drew Brees, and even the great Tom Brady.  Time and experience is the only thing, that can reduce that frequency.     

[JaCrispy]

I am pleased with Josh’s progress to this point...curious to see how he handles better competition down the stretch.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Wasn't this a topic already discussed in numerous threads?  

one big one was 

 

Trubisky, hanging on by a thread

Edited November 6, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[zevo]

Everyone wants him to be pat Mahomes out the gate....some qbs take time to develop...Brady was a game manager early in his career...not saying he is Brady just saying some qbs take some time to develop. He has control and respect of his team already...that’s a huge plus...he is been good not great...

[Allen2Moulds]

3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I am pleased with Josh’s progress to this point...curious to see how he handles better competition down the stretch.

Same here, I'm equally excited and at the same time nervous.  The TENN game gives me hope. 

[NewEra]

I don’t think Moulds high point passes the way he used too.  Allen to Moulds probably wouldn’t work very well 

[YoloinOhio]

Trubisky sucks 

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Same here, I'm equally excited and at the same time nervous.  The TENN game gives me hope. 

Yup...I like how he is able to win on the road...that is HUGE for a young QB.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Far and away better

[Allen2Moulds]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Trubisky sucks 

I agree. Prior to the opener, I remember Sal saying that if Josh has the jump that Trubisky had in year 2, he would be very happy.  That surprised me. I wanted no part in that comparison, no matter how good his stats looked.  

6 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Wasn't this a topic already discussed in numerous threads?  

one big one was 

 

Trubisky, hanging on by a thread

my mistake if it was.

[SCBills]

The strange thing I’ve noticed about watching Josh Allen this year, Pats game aside, is that I usually find myself thinking he’s played pretty well with the eye test... then I look at his stats and am disappointed when I see an average of 200 yards passing per game.  
 

He looks the part, but the deep ball issues and offensive consistency in general, are preventing us from seeing a QB, and Offense, that’s arrived.  

[starrymessenger]

Allen was a blue chip prospect for playing the all important position when he was drafted and nothing so far in his pro career alters that perspective. To the contrary he has shown reasonable progression. Looks to me that he is on his way to developing into a legit starting calibre QB and quite possibly a franchise guy. He absolutely has all the physical tools as well as the intangibles. I'm very impressed with him as a player and with his maturity as a person and leader of men. 

Of course his is possibly the toughest job in all of sports so it's gonna take awhile and nothing is given in this game.

[Big Turk]

Better than Mayfield and Darnold too

[Logic]

Josh Allen has alleviated so many concerns that people had about him so far this season.

He has improved his accuracy, improved his completion percentage, improved his ability to read defenses pre and post snap, improved his pocket presence, improved on his willingness to hang in the pocket rather than bail early, he leads the league in game-winning drives...

I mean..the only legitimate complaint people seem to have about Allen right now is that he's been more of a game manager than a playmaker. But think of that: JOSH ALLEN...is now an effective game manager. Something we were told he couldn't do. 

And oh, by the way, he does things like routinely convert 3rd and 15+ situations, he leads the NFL's BEST red zone offense, and he's now gone 13 straight quarters without throwing an interception -- which is a big improvement for him. All of this within his first 20 games played.

He has lots of room for improvement and no one's saying he's "there" yet, but if you can honestly look at his play from last year to this year and not see vast improvements and some hints of a possible franchise QB, well...I don't know what to tell you.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Logic

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I know everyone will laugh at Mitch Trubisky now, but a lot of people were praising Trubisky, after the year he had last year.  I personally didn't see it.  They were able to mask a lot of his inefficiencies, but whenever he needed to make a big play (critical 3rd down/end of game) type of throw, he was off the mark more often than not.  Josh doesn't, and won't have the stats that Mitch had, but he passes the eyeball test.  He couldn't be any more different.  I'd like to hear all the self proclaimed experts, on how inaccurate Josh is.  That argument is getting a lot tougher with each passing game.  Will he make some boneheaded plays from time to time, absolutely.  So will Drew Brees, and even the great Tom Brady.  Time and experience is the only thing, that can reduce that frequency.     

 

Oh no....this comparison will not end well. 

 

Trubisky had some genuinely good, clutch play last year.  He avoided mistakes and was a big part of the Bears 11-3 record.  A lot of his yardage was YAC (3223 total yards, 1803 air yards, 1414 YAC - 56% air yards).  Now that's not necessarily bad - Brady, for example, tends to rack up a lot of YAC, commonly almost half. 

And yes, Trubisky did not come through as clutch at some critical times and isn't this year.

 

On the other hand, the eye test says that Josh has left a bunch of big plays on the field in his 2nd year, and needs to do better.  He has improved considerably in several key areas, namely the short and intermediate throws that are a QB's bread-and-butter.  He can make some eye-popping throws at times, and he does seem to have that "clutch" gene you can't coach.

So I have a lot of hope, but I don't see the point of comparing Allen to a former 1st round pick, #2 pick who is struggling in his 3rd year.  Trubisky looked good last year and the question was will he take a step in his 3rd year or won't he.  So far it seems to be "won't". 

Next year we could be happy with Allen taking another step, or we could be in the same place as the Bears with Trubisky.

[Wayne Arnold]

Despite all the praise this thread wants to heap on Allen, the reality is that he’s near the bottom of the league in nearly every category.

 

He needs to be better in the second half of 2019 than he was in the first half. Otherwise there’s no reason for an impartial person to think he’s any better than Trubisky.

[Allen2Moulds]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

Josh Allen has alleviated so many concerns that people had about him so far this season.

He has improved his accuracy, improved his completion percentage, improved his ability to read defenses pre and post snap, improved his pocket presence, improved on his willingness to hang in the pocket rather than bail early, he leads the league in game-winning drives...

I mean..the only legitimate complaint people seem to have about Allen right now is that he's been more of a game manager than a playmaker. But think of that: JOSH ALLEN...is now an effective game manager. Something we were told he couldn't do. 

And oh, by the way, he does things like routinely convert 3rd and 15+ situations, he leads the NFL's BEST red zone offense, and he's now gone 13 straight quarters without throwing an interception -- which is a big improvement for him. All of this within his first 20 games played.

He has lots of room for improvement and no one's saying he's "there" yet, but if you can honestly look at his play from last year to this year and not see vast improvements and some hints of a possible franchise QB, well...I don't know what to tell you.

Well said. I agree with 100% of what you said.  I wonder how high he ranks in completing those 3rd and 15+ situations.  He's done it so much, that I almost expect us to convert those.  In years past, I was making a trip to the fridge or bathroom, knowing we would be punting.

[C.Biscuit97]

He looked pretty much exactly like Mitch T in his 2nd year.  

[TheElectricCompany]

Let me know when Josh throws for 350 yards and 6 TDs in a game. 

I think Mitch took alot of crap for a pretty good sophomore campaign. It's too bad he's taken a major step back this year. 

[Dr. Who]

38 minutes ago, Logic said:

He has lots of room for improvement and no one's saying he's "there" yet, but if you can honestly look at his play from last year to this year and not see vast improvements and some hints of a possible franchise QB, well...I don't know what to tell you.

I do. "You're dishonest and operating out of a bad faith agenda." Nonetheless, having a reasonable take on Allen will be dismissed as cultist irrationality. Some folks are already hankering for the next man up.

[SCBills]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He looked pretty much exactly like Mitch T in his 2nd year.  

Which is bad when you know what Trubisky became in Year 3, but coming into this year everyone was high on the dude given his Year 2. 

[apuszczalowski]

Who hasn't looked better then Mitch?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Wasn't this a topic already discussed in numerous threads?  

one big one was 

 

Trubisky, hanging on by a thread

 

Now now don't go all evil bot

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Trubisky did have a game last year where he went for 350 and 6 TDs.  After that people put him in the conversation with Watson and Mahomes etc.  

 

I think there's a few factors... their defense isn't getting takeaways at a ridiculous rate like last year.  They also haven't had much of a run game all season, and he seems to be running less as a QB which is basically killing their O.  Doesn't seem like they are finding ways to get Cohen involved as much either.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Now now don't go all evil bot

 

LOL  

1. redundancy gets redundant 
2. Mitch is not good, so this comparison is an insult IMO
3. in his 3 seasons Mitch has showed that he isn't good
4. In two season Josh has shown a remarkable improvement  
5. if I wanted to compare stats I'd go to the Kelly thread    

Edited November 6, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Josh is slowly improving but has a long way to go.  Mitch appears to be regressing.  But it's all relative with respect to external factors such as offensive teammates and coaching.

[syhuang]

Bears and Bills happened to play Eagles last week and the week before. By these two detailed analysis, it's not hard to see Josh is ahead of Trubisky in their development. Of course, Josh needs to continue to improve in several areas (long throw, fumble issue, etc), but right now, I don't see there are anything indicating he'll have a big regression in year 3 like Trubisky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BuffBillsForLife]

6 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Stats aside,

At some point you have to stop only looking at the eye test (which Allen generally passes IMO) and start caring that his stats are near the bottom in basically every statistical category.  You need both stats and intangibles to be great and have sustained success.

[london_bills]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

The strange thing I’ve noticed about watching Josh Allen this year, Pats game aside, is that I usually find myself thinking he’s played pretty well with the eye test... then I look at his stats and am disappointed when I see an average of 200 yards passing per game.  
 

He looks the part, but the deep ball issues and offensive consistency in general, are preventing us from seeing a QB, and Offense, that’s arrived.  

You are right somehow that he looks the part but the stats are disappointing in comparison to how he looks at times. I agree with the sensation you describe regarding Allen. Leads to not being sure of him either way as of yet. 

14 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

At some point you have to stop only looking at the eye test (which Allen generally passes IMO) and start caring that his stats are near the bottom in basically every statistical category.  You need both stats and intangibles to be great and have sustained success.

Ultimately true. If he is to be top tier, you need to see top tier statistically. 

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

Josh Allen has alleviated so many concerns that people had about him so far this season.

He has improved his accuracy, improved his completion percentage, improved his ability to read defenses pre and post snap, improved his pocket presence, improved on his willingness to hang in the pocket rather than bail early, he leads the league in game-winning drives...

I mean..the only legitimate complaint people seem to have about Allen right now is that he's been more of a game manager than a playmaker. But think of that: JOSH ALLEN...is now an effective game manager. Something we were told he couldn't 

Ben Roethlisberger started out as a game manager.  So did Tom Brady.  They grew into what they became.  Folks need to have patience.

[BillsFan17]

6 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Let me know when Josh throws for 350 yards and 6 TDs in a game. 

I think Mitch took alot of crap for a pretty good sophomore campaign. It's too bad he's taken a major step back this year. 

That's the benchmark? Because clearly it holds zero water if the guy mightily regresses afterwards.

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Ben Roethlisberger started out as a game manager.  So did Tom Brady.  They grew into what they became.  Folks need to have patience.

Hell, Drew Brees wasn’t exactly Drew Brees overnight either.

 

Some of the QB’s who have started out of the gate like gangbusters have every fan of every team looking for a QB want said QB to be an instant superstar. That simply doesn’t happen.

 

Patience is what is needed. Even in this instant gratification society, patience is a must.

 

Remember the Bills offense when Marv Levy first became HC. It was even more archaic than McDermott’s is.

 

Patience, patience, patience.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

At some point you have to stop only looking at the eye test (which Allen generally passes IMO) and start caring that his stats are near the bottom in basically every statistical category.  You need both stats and intangibles to be great and have sustained success.

 

Fair point but IMO Allen's "unimpressive" stats are a direct result of:

 

*  The style of game the Bills play.  Once they get the lead the Bills primary job is to protect it.  They downshift the offense.  Even in their 2 losses the Bills were not blown out.  There has not been a game this year where the Bills needed to abandon their conservative game plan in order make up a huge points deficit.   In fact going back to Allen's post injury starts from last year and you see the same pattern.  Even last years NE loss wasn't a blowout loss.  

 

*  A completely revamped offense in which 9 of 11 starters are new.

 

*   A lack of explosive, big play offensive skill players.  The injury to Motor removed the only big play RB on the roster for 5 games.  The WR's have been upgraded with dependable guys that can make clutch catches but would anyone confuse Beasley & Brown for game breakers?  The Bills still get very little pass catching production out of their TE's, particularly compared to most NFL teams.  The FACT remains that the Bills are a few missing pieces away from having an explosive stable of skill players.

 

By next year I suspect that when needed Allen and the Bills offense will be able to throw the ball for 350 yards and win a shootout.  However that will NOT be the preferred game outcome for the Bills.  They will be fine with winning games 17 - 6.  The Bills will never by a fantasy football darling on offense.

 

 

[billspro]

8 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I know everyone will laugh at Mitch Trubisky now, but a lot of people were praising Trubisky, after the year he had last year.  I personally didn't see it.  They were able to mask a lot of his inefficiencies, but whenever he needed to make a big play (critical 3rd down/end of game) type of throw, he was off the mark more often than not.  Josh doesn't, and won't have the stats that Mitch had, but he passes the eyeball test.  He couldn't be any more different.  I'd like to hear all the self proclaimed experts, on how inaccurate Josh is.  That argument is getting a lot tougher with each passing game.  Will he make some boneheaded plays from time to time, absolutely.  So will Drew Brees, and even the great Tom Brady.  Time and experience is the only thing, that can reduce that frequency.     

 

Allen makes big time plays on third down and in the 4th quarter. He is going to be a Big Ben type, he will just find ways to win early in his career and put up big time stats later.

8 hours ago, Logic said:

Josh Allen has alleviated so many concerns that people had about him so far this season.

He has improved his accuracy, improved his completion percentage, improved his ability to read defenses pre and post snap, improved his pocket presence, improved on his willingness to hang in the pocket rather than bail early, he leads the league in game-winning drives...

I mean..the only legitimate complaint people seem to have about Allen right now is that he's been more of a game manager than a playmaker. But think of that: JOSH ALLEN...is now an effective game manager. Something we were told he couldn't do. 

And oh, by the way, he does things like routinely convert 3rd and 15+ situations, he leads the NFL's BEST red zone offense, and he's now gone 13 straight quarters without throwing an interception -- which is a big improvement for him. All of this within his first 20 games played.

He has lots of room for improvement and no one's saying he's "there" yet, but if you can honestly look at his play from last year to this year and not see vast improvements and some hints of a possible franchise QB, well...I don't know what to tell you.

 

Great post

[billspro]

6 hours ago, dneveu said:

Trubisky did have a game last year where he went for 350 and 6 TDs.  After that people put him in the conversation with Watson and Mahomes etc.  

 

I think there's a few factors... their defense isn't getting takeaways at a ridiculous rate like last year.  They also haven't had much of a run game all season, and he seems to be running less as a QB which is basically killing their O.  Doesn't seem like they are finding ways to get Cohen involved as much either.  

 

The turnovers made him look better than he was. He was put in many favourable situations last year. He was brutal when they played us and it was still a blow out. 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick has a game like that two. These QBs all have NFL talent and can put up stats when they are hot. Consistency is more important to me. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, billspro said:

 

The turnovers made him look better than he was. He was put in many favourable situations last year. He was brutal when they played us and it was still a blow out. 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick has a game like that two. These QBs all have NFL talent and can put up stats when they are hot. Consistency is more important to me. 

 

The bears like averaged more than two takeaways a game... Unsustainable. 

[ganesh]

16 hours ago, zevo said:

Everyone wants him to be pat Mahomes out the gate....some qbs take time to develop...Brady was a game manager early in his career...not saying he is Brady just saying some qbs take some time to develop. He has control and respect of his team already...that’s a huge plus...he is been good not great...

Big Ben was averaging 20TDs a season for his first 7-8 seasons.  He has pushed himself to 30 TD for the last 4-5 seasons when he had  plenty of WRs including Antonio Brown.

 

His Sophomore year was 17 TDs and 9 INT.   

 

I believe Josh is having a similar sophomore season.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

He is 

 

 

[eball]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So I have a lot of hope, but I don't see the point of comparing Allen to a former 1st round pick, #2 pick who is struggling in his 3rd year.  Trubisky looked good last year and the question was will he take a step in his 3rd year or won't he.  So far it seems to be "won't". 

 

Oh, come on, Hap, sure you do.  It's only natural for fans to take a look at QBs drafted in similar spots and make comparisons.  It is starting to look like Trubisky might be a bust.  He has surpassed that "magic number" of 24-25 starts many experts believe are necessary before you know whether or not a QB is "the guy" (he's made 33).  He's playing more this year like he did as a rookie than as he played in his 2nd year.  Is it a blip?  If I'm the Bears I ride him through the rest of this season, and then I've got to make a tough decision about whether he's my guy going forward.

[badassgixxer05]

18 hours ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

At some point you have to stop only looking at the eye test (which Allen generally passes IMO) and start caring that his stats are near the bottom in basically every statistical category.  You need both stats and intangibles to be great and have sustained success.

6-2....

Stats don't mean *****. If D is playing good, there is no reason to go out there and sling the ball around 50 times a game for individual passing stat leader boards. When we have been down in the 4th quarter and Allen was forced to throw he was clutch.  Last week He didn't pass for over 200 because there was no need to. Now the Philly game I would have liked to see some yards as we were down, but 30mph winds make that just a little difficult. Josh from a leadership role looks as good or better than any of the young QBs in the league today. Ill keep him any day of the week. Considering he was the most RAW prospect taken, I think we should be really happy about what the future could hold. ?