T master Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Okay i have been thinking about this for a while & i know that you the Bills fans will give your honest & unbiased opinion on it & some of you may even call me a dum ass for suggesting it but my skin has grown pretty thick since posting here so i'll throw this against the wall & see if it sticks . In the Bills past there has been a few players that they had brought on board at one position have seen some potential in them & thought that that could be utilized better at another position, the one that we most recognize with is of coarse Jason Peters he came to the Bills as a TE & they changed to LT to be one of the best to ever play the position for his entire career ! Oh & don't forget George Wilson changed from WR to a safety or DB what ever it was . The Bills have recently gotten a rookie that was said to play out of position in college (but did better there than what i've seen in the NFL to this point) & that when they brought him here they would put him at a different position better suited for him but to this point i'm not really seeing it . Ed Oliver is the player that i am talking about if you haven't guessed already . Upon him being drafted they said by putting him in the position he is now he would be a lot better player but from what i have seen to this point he is doing okay but the players here in the NFL are so much bigger than him although strong as he may be when you are out weighed by any where from 30 to 60 lbs that's got to be tough !! So i was thinking given his size, his get off & motor would he be better suited to be a DE opposite Hughs ? I've looked at some resent & past DE's in the NFL & he isn't as tall but around the same weight . Boss in SF is 6'4" 260 ish Bruce was 6'4" about the same in weight Oliver is 6' 1" 286 ? witch could give him a advantage at getting under a O lineman to get around him on the edge . I claim to be a fan & want the players the Bills get to have the best opportunity to produce but i don't really see Ed being that super talent at the position in the middle they need more of the Jordan Phillips/Horrible Harry in the middle than Ed IMHO. So is there anything to this thought or have any of you had the same thought, or is this just a fan dreaming of what might be nothing but a pipe dream ? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 you dum ass (I stopped reading after the first paragraph, just thought I'd get this out of the way) 5 11 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 If it gets Murphy off of the field I'm good with seeing how Oliver does @ LDE. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Ed Oliver is fine where he is. He has played well. He hasn't been dominant yet but it is 7 games. Chill out. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think you mean dumb ass... 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, H2o said: If it gets Murphy off of the field I'm good with seeing how Oliver does @ LDE. I'd be good with a dead rat if it got Murphy off the field. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Hahahahahahaha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) As for the actual content of your post- I don't think this is a good idea for 3 reasons: 1- I don't really believe in positions on the defensive line in the NFL. The good teams rotate guys and play guys in the best spot to win one on one matchups. So Oliver seeing time outside wouldn't bother me. 2- The reason he's a DT and not a DE is because of his shorter stature. Typically shorter guys have trouble going against tackles because the don't have the length to bed around the outside. While this shorter stature can be a benefit inside (I.e. Aaron Donald) It's typically a liability outside. 3- Lastly, I don't think Oliver is struggling. There have been plenty of metrics showing he's doing his job and getting pressure and creating havoc inside. He hasn't gotten the sacks yet, but that'll come. 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I think you mean dumb ass... dum-dum. You bring me gum-gum. Edited October 31, 2019 by whatdrought 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Are you the one that called into sals show on WGR Monday suggesting this? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, whatdrought said: As for the actual content of your post- I don't think this is a good idea for 3 reasons: 1- I don't really believe in positions on the defensive line in the NFL. The good teams rotate guys and play guys in the best spot to win one on one matchups. So Oliver seeing time outside wouldn't bother me. 2- The reason he's a DT and not a DE is because of his shorter stature. Typically shorter guys have trouble going against tackles because the don't have the length to bed around the outside. While this shorter stature can be a benefit inside (I.e. Aaron Donald) It's typically a liability outside. 3- Lastly, I don't think Oliver is struggling. There have been plenty of metrics showing he's doing his job and getting pressure and creating havoc inside. He hasn't gotten the sacks yet, but that'll come. Thanks for the intelligent & insightful answer that i was looking for & figured the normal reply's but hey at least three is one worth reading !! I'm not in a area to watch any of the games so i have to see what little i can on video from replay so i don't really know how he is doing although i have seen him in the back field a few times i guess i was just expecting more form his early draft position ! Thanks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Ed Oliver is fine where he is. He has played well. He hasn't been dominant yet but it is 7 games. Chill out. Agreed. He would also be a difference making DE in a 3-4, but Sean McDermott is not going to switch any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don't think it would hurt if Oliver put more mass on his frame - maybe about 20 lbs, it he is going to stay a 3 tech DT. If Oliver can't get off the Guard's block, he gets pushed out of the play. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He needs to work on pass rush moves. He was pretty raw at them coming in to the league. Technique is huge in the pros. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I think you mean dumb ass... 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don’t think he needs to move. I think he’ll end up doing well at his position. That said, it is not the worst idea from a physical standpoint. Most people think of ends as taller and more angular. But Robert Mathis played at 6’2”, 245 lbs. Ed is quick and strong. He could be a bigger version. The questions are 1) does his quickness hold up for the increased distance to get around quicker and longer tackles vs. the “phone booth” of guards and 2) how long would it take for him to adjust and learn the position/techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yes, Oliver seems undersized by current NFL standards and I worried about that the moment we drafted him. Some guys can overcome that and their size doesn't matter in the final analysis. I think it's too early to draw a conclusion about Oliver and his size being a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 are you the guy that has been calling every WGR show saying this repeatedly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I see your point. They did move Ed around to the left side for a few snaps last game. Everyone is learning how to play together on that line, especially Ed. He's graded out pretty well this year so far, the one thing i was worried about was him not having enough anchor to play inside, we all know he's twitchy and quick. But he doesn't get steamrolled at all, even giving up 50lbs to the average NFL guard and being doubled frequently. One thing to consider: Levon Kirkland, the all-pro inside LB for the Steelers was exactly the same size as Ed, 6'1 280 ish. Ed's numbers at the combine were LB numbers, far faster and more agile than Kirkland ever was. Now I'm not proposing we put Ed in the middle LB position (imagine McD and Frasier laughing at that idea) however, in a short yardage packages, when Star and Jordan are inside, what if we put Ed as a backer, or even at edge as the OP proposed. Here you go Ed, this is your gap. Thump away. Anyway here is what scouts generally use a minimum measurable for ILB's. 40-yard dash: Minimum Target: 4.80 10-yard split: Minimum Target: 1.70 Vertical jump: Minimum Target: 33” Broad jump: Minimum Target: 9’6” 3 cone drill: Minimum Target: 7.20 20-yard shuttle: Minimum Target: 4.20 Bench press: Minimum Target: 24 Size-wise, Oliver is basically Aaron Donald. Donald at the 2014 combine: 6’1, 285 pounds Oliver at the 2019 combine: 6’1, 287 pounds In the 40-yard dash, Oliver is basically Arian Foster. Foster at the 2009 combine: 4.69 seconds Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.73 seconds (Milano 4.67) In the bench press, Oliver is basically Ndamukong Suh. Suh at the 2010 combine: 32 reps Oliver at the 2019 combine: 32 reps In the shuttle run, Oliver is basically Le’Veon Bell. Bell at the 2013 combine: 4.25 seconds Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.22 seconds In the three-cone drill, Oliver is basically Jason Pierre-Paul. Pierre-Paul at the 2010 combine: 7.18 seconds Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 7.15 seconds In the vertical jump, Oliver is basically Von Miller. Miller at the 2011 combine: 37 inches Oliver at the 2019 combine: 36 inches In the broad jump, Oliver is J.J. Watt or Amari Cooper Watt at the 2011 combine: 120 inches Cooper at the 2015 combine: 120 inches Oliver at the 2019 combine: 120 inches So maybe there are some more creative ways to use the guy as a specialist. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Pipe dream. Undersized "pass rush specialist" DT who can't get sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I honestly don’t know if we let the football purists or the grammarians ’tar and feather’ you first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Ed OIiver.... I would do a Thurman and shill my name for a few spoons more from the locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He has no pass rush moves, hence his current issue, putting him in space won't make that better. I wasnt a big fan of this pick, but lets not declare him a bust after 7 games, he has more than held his own. He hasn't had the impact one would like, but he sure hasn't been a liability and is arguably the best player on the DL already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 How many DTs start their rookie year and become instant impact players? I would assume few to none. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 We need something out of that DE position, but I’m not creating a hole at Ed’s position just to try something else. Just go get a real DE for that slot. We are not a finished product. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Ed would look better if he had a true "space eater" next to him. Star isn't cutting it, despite what Coach and other apologists have said. It'd also help if Trent Murphy wasn't such a waste of space. We've got like 1 or 2 plays out of him in 2 years. I'm not bashing Jerry Hughes, but we could use some more out of him too. DL is still clearly a need on this team, both DT and DE. Jordan Phillips has been playing well at least, we better get him resigned asap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobilz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Please stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Of "coarse" spell check is your friend ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Do ppl understand how well Ed is playing at his current position? Yes the sacks are not there yet....but he is causing fits for interior OL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Oliver has been the best run defender on the line. He isn't going anywhere. He needs to work on hand usage in pass rush situations to become dominant. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eee1776 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I'd be good with a dead rat if it got Murphy off the field. Going with a dead rat is too kind, This guy could not set a edge if someone walked him to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: you dum ass (I stopped reading after the first paragraph, just thought I'd get this out of the way) Did you channel Vontae Davis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, BuffaninSarasota said: Of "coarse" spell check is your friend ...... One vote for the grammarians. ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, babulator said: Ed would look better if he had a true "space eater" next to him. Star isn't cutting it, despite what Coach and other apologists have said. It'd also help if Trent Murphy wasn't such a waste of space. We've got like 1 or 2 plays out of him in 2 years. I'm not bashing Jerry Hughes, but we could use some more out of him too. DL is still clearly a need on this team, both DT and DE. Jordan Phillips has been playing well at least, we better get him resigned asap. I agree with what you said. Harrison Phillips was a big loss for us. Our LB's our too small and don't do a great job shedding blocks. Edmunds and Milano get swallowed up when lineman get on them. Star Lotulelei is under performing and he is not taking on 2 guys very often, which you can see on the All 22. Milano and Edmunds do a very good job at attacking gaps and using their instincts when they are working in space but if they get locked up they do not do a good job fighting those blocks off and that's really not a strength of theirs. Good cover guys and good mobility but they need better help up front. Oliver has been so so, nothing special to this point and only time will tell if his size becomes to much of a liability to overcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I think you mean dumb ass... Dum is as dumb does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think he’d be a very difficult RB to tackle... not sure how his jump cut is...? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 guarantees in life: * Death * Taxes * Threads every season about changing the position of a Bills player. The greatest one ever was on the old BBMB where a poster argued for pages that Kyle Williams would be a better MLB than DT. The Spencer Johnson position change inspired this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 As a package, I'm fine with them doing this. Lawson, Phillips, Star and Oliver could be a good run stopping package. But as a permanent move? No way. People need to realize that other than Oliver and Philips, the D line is trash. We're going to be looking at the draft and free agency to get a pass rush in the off season. Horrible Harry will be back next year and then the defense will be elite. No more paper tigers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I would suggest a position change from you being a Bills fan to being a Bengals fan if you think after just 7 games Oliver needs to change positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, gobilz said: Please stop WHOA!....hear me out............. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Do we know if he can catch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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