A possible solution for tanking? Reinvent the draft.

[frostbitmic]

The draft is big money for the NFL and the way the system is now is fine. Tanking only costs the team money as no one shows up to their games or buys their merchandise.

[fansince88]

I just had French Vanilla ice cream with REAL NYS Maple syrup on it. Thats the best. Prove me wrong!

[ThurmasThoman]

My fix for every league's draft.

Are you sitting down? Are your breasts secure? Are you ready for this? Ok... if you say so. I'm warning you though, once you read it, it's going to be so obviously correct and elegant that you're going to be mad the leagues don't do it. 

At the moment a team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they are moved to a new "standings" board, with a record of 0-0. This new standings is called the "Draft Standings", and just like the "Playoff Standings", teams shoot to be in first place. You want to win games if you're on the "Draft Standings" board, just like you want to win games if you're on the "Playoff Standings" board.

 

Teams that are BAD--like Miami this year--will be eliminated from playoff contention early. So they may start 0-9, and have 7 games to play on the "Draft Standings" board. A good team that JUST misses the playoffs in week 17 will have zero games to play on the "Draft Standings" board. A slightly better team may have 1 game. But the team eliminated with 7 games to go should theoretically be bad enough that they won't win that much... and a team that is eliminated with 1 week to go is theoretically that much better that they might win the last week of the season. 

Tie breakers on the "Draft Standings" board will revert to the normal standings, so out of 2 teams with 1 "Draft Standings" win, one with a 4-12 overall record, and one with a 9-7 overall record, the team with the BETTER normal standings record would win the tiebreaker and get the higher pick.

This incentivizes winning all year long--so if your team is eliminated, you're still hoping they win every Sunday so you can move up the draft board.

 

 

 

[Cuboirs]

Call the NBA they seem to have fixed it

[KD in CA]

12 minutes ago, Cuboirs said:

Call the NBA they seem to have fixed it

 

Oh I'm sure they've 'fixed' it.  Keep this nonsense away from the NFL please. 

 

People go on and on with this 'tanking' crap but you can't tell me guys aren't trying to beat the man across from them when they step on the field.

[White Linen]

They shouldn't make any changes and I certainly wouldn't want what the NHL has for the NFL.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, White Linen said:

They shouldn't make any changes and I certainly wouldn't want what the NHL has for the NFL.  

 

 

 

 

Obscure TV coverage and no national interest?

[White Linen]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Obscure TV coverage and no national interest?

 

Exactly

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

 

Absolutely hate this.  I actually think you have created a bigger issue and an incentive to tank.  Additionally - I think the NFLPA would hate this.  You are incentivizing salary and veteran player dumping.

 

You have basically made it so teams that are paying players have a significantly reduced chance at getting young cheap talent.  

 

Teams that are losing would be looking to dump as much salary as possible to increase the amount they can spend in the draft.  Have a veteran RB at 1 million a season - get rid of him so you can buy an extra player.

 

Plus without a known draft pick - how are teams trading - are you trading open money slots?

 

You want to fix the tanking problem - create a lottery - and not like the whimpy NHL or NBA lottery.  Assign points based on point differential, wins, and include wild card teams if you want.  You must also get a minimum of 1 win to even have a shot at an early pick.  Zero wins and you are automatically slotted at 23rd in the draft just in front of the division winners that go in playoff order - 24 through Super Bowl champs.  
 

An 8-8 team with a + 32 point differential would be given a much higher shot at the first pick than a 1-15 team with - 75 point differential.  You can give percentages for each win and every 10 positive points.  So the 8-8 might have 10X higher chance of getting the pick.

 

It would make teams compete to be good and teams would not want to just dump players for picks because you have no idea where teams will end up.  Miami would not get rid of all of the players because it hurts their draft position and Houston would want to be more careful because if then end up doing well, but not winning the division- they might be trading the number 1 pick.

 

In reality I do not have an issue with tanking yet, but there are better ways to fix the issue.

[DrDawkinstein]

Nothing needs to change.

 

The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves.

 

Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league.

 

[Zerovoltz]

The Zerovoltz solution:

 

Have the teams that qualify for the playoffs continue to be seeded as they currently are.  super bowl winner is 32, super bowl runner up is 31, and so on.

 

Have the team that had the best record, but failed to make the playoffs pick 1st.  Then the next best team that failed to make the playoffs pick 2nd....and so on.  This provides incentive to keep trying to win, even in week 17 and no matter who you are.

[KD in CA]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Nothing needs to change.

 

The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves.

 

Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league.

 

Thank you.  I hate people who invent problems that don’t exist.

 

Unless someone can point out how the scourge of ‘tanking’ has harmed the NFL.

[Mark80]

Something about auctioning off a majority black player base on a stage just doesn't seem right to me.  Call me crazy.

 

I always thought they should just give the team that finishes in 13th place (best non-playoff team) the #1 overall pick, then 14th gets #2, etc. and the playoff teams still go last.  Then everyone is always to trying to finish as high as possible.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Mark80

[Royale with Cheese]

I think a 5 team lottery makes sense.  But make the odds equal for the #1.

[Thurman#1]

There really is no tanking in the NFL. It's a basketball word. Coaches and players are highly highly incentivized in every way to give everything they've got. The last thing they want to do is leave bad film behind.

 

There's no tanking. There is rebuilding. And there's nothing wrong with it.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Nothing needs to change.

 

The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves.

 

Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league.

 

 

 

Yup.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Thurman#1

[LabattBlue]

13 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

So they should  have a fantasy football auction style draft like you and your friends do?   
 

 

Ummm...how about no. 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

The whole thing is, there is no proof that deliberately tanking actually works in the NFL.  It didn’t really work in Cleveland.  There’s not telling it will work in Miami. In less teams have success I don’t think they change it

 

 

Hunh? I mean, you're using the wrong word, it's doing a total rebuild, not tanking.

 

But Cleveland has a long way to go before we can say this didn't work for them. They could easily be terrific next year. Or not. Dunno.

 

But what you prove by pointing out teams whose rebuild failed isn't that rebuilding doesn't work. It's that sometimes rebuilding doesn't work. Which I think everyone is aware of. There are plenty of cases where it worked. And plenty where it didn't.

 

And as for the guy who said fans hate rebuilding ... well, yeah. Thing is, fans also hate reloading mediocre teams year after year after year and producing more mediocrity. The Bills managed that for most of the playoff drought, but also rebuilt two times unsuccessfully. Either strategy can fail.

 

But if your rebuild gets you a good QB, you've drastically upgraded your chances at being competitive.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

 

Let's leave it the same.

[ALF]

A fire sale to tank for a QB is a big risk . Takes too long to build a OL to give a QB a chance to develop . Rosen hasn't had a chance so far.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Plinko?  Rock-Paper-Scissors?  Voting by fans as in MLB All Star games?

*
Actually, a tip of the hat to the OP in defining the problem, and submitting a possible solution.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Love the idea of having no incentive to fail. 

Just not in love with the auction.

[CLTbills]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I do not thing the NFL has a tanking problem- I know the Browns did it and Miami is now but it is not a likely scenario since it taskes so many players to be good in the NFL. Basically no rookie will be good enough by himself to turn a team around and a team would have to be bad 5 years to get enough guys together to make it work and no GM survives 5 bad years.

Agreed. It's not like the NBA where one player can be the difference between being the champions and being irrelevant. 

[Kirby Jackson]

There are a couple of ideas that have been floated in different sports that I kind of like.

 

1. All of the non-playoff teams have their own tournament for draft order. Single elimination with wins moving your pick earlier. Once you are eliminated the teams with the best record pick sooner than the teams with the worse record.

 

2. Do the same without the tournament. The last team to miss the playoffs picks 1st and works backwards from there.

 

This prevents tanking IMO. It benefits you to win.

[CLTbills]

14 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

I like this idea the best out of any that I've heard. Every team is on the same playing field, and those who manage their cap the best are still rewarded. There is ZERO incentive to tank, other than the fact that doing so may get you a bunch of salary cap space, dependent on how you tank. 

 

I definitely like it better than the lottery.

[thenorthremembers]

Or we could just trying to stop fixing something that isnt broken.   Tanking doesnt ensure future success.  A lot of things have to happen for a team to turn it's fortunes around.  If the Dolphins GM, Coach, or QB suck they will most likely fail. 

 

The NFL has the best draft period, huge drama, huge ratings.  

[PatsFanNH]

Ok it’s obvious Miami is tanking, I would say Cincy isn’t trying to lose right now but are, same with the Redskins..  

 

i actually get what Miami is doing they are loading up on draft picks and w the Steelers pick they could actually have 2 top ten picks and make this turn around a lot quicker if they coach they young talent right.. that last part is key.. COACHING! There is a huge lack of quality coaching in the league.. 

 

Top 5:

BB

Reid

Carroll

Peyton

McVay???

 

i am hard press who put in #5.. IMO the Bills doing well this year because you finally have a competent HC. The Browns who are more talented are bad because they have Kitchens. 

[dpberr]

MLB and NBA have a legitimate tanking problem because those leagues do not have a hard salary cap. Teams have to acquire high draft picks to acquire control over those contracts for a period of time before the wealthy teams (with owners who laugh at the luxury tax) give their players the godfather offers they cannot. I think the NBA is very unfair - no cap *and* tanking teams aren't assured of that #1 pick so they can't win no matter what - but hope to be really lucky.  

 

As a fan, I don't have a problem with a team using tanking as a competitive strategy.  I'd prefer it to the Miami Dolphins approach of the last 30 years of spending gobs of money bolting on free agents and getting nothing better than my usual 8-8 season, with an occasional blip of brilliance at 10-6 with a first round exit.  If I were a Dolphins fan, I'd be happy that management is trying something new.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Bookie Man]

All you would have to do would be divide the draft into tiers and use a lotto system. Bottom 5 teams go into a randomized drawing for the top 5 picks and the next tier is 6-10 and so on. 

[Seasons1992]

12 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think a 5 team lottery makes sense.  But make the odds equal for the #1.

 

I like this, but would the lottery winner be able to trade their #1 overall pick to someone else? Let's say Mahomes gets hurt for the season early next year, and the Chiefs go 2-14 and win this lottery, AND the best player on the board is Trevor Lawrence. Can they trade the pick, or take Lawrence and trade HIM? 

 

I sound like @Virgil now, someone help me!!

[CLTbills]

45 minutes ago, NC Book said:

All you would have to do would be divide the draft into tiers and use a lotto system. Bottom 5 teams go into a randomized drawing for the top 5 picks and the next tier is 6-10 and so on. 

I actually like this best. The "auction" idea is a cool idea, but the more i sit here and think about it, the more flaws i come up with.

 

Who decides who the players are that get "auctioned"? - part of the draft is that there are players who DO and who DONT get drafted. Under the auction system, you're going to have to set in stone, which players are going to be drafted and which ones aren't for the system to be able to work. 

 

Secondly, there is way too much to contract negotiation for this to happen. Incentives, roster bonuses, workout bonuses, signing bonuses, etc. How do you factor all of this in?

 

Thirdly, if you "tank" the right way by shedding all of your big contracts and play the entire year with only $50M on your payroll, you'll go into the "auction" with the most available cap space, there is still an incentive to tank.

Edited October 25, 2019 by CLTbills

[That's No Moon]

15 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

I don't have a problem with eliminating the draft entirely and making it more like the baseball international player system. Give teams an allocation what what they are allowed to spend in total and let them decide how much they are willing to offer players. The good players will get more, most guys will get less.

 

I don't like the look of making a straight up auction where you are quite literally buying people's labor. Give the players the choice of what offer they want to accept and move on. If you made the rules well, teams in big markets wouldn't be able to hoard the top players because they couldn't afford them all. You can't trade allocation space, you can't bank it year over year, etc. If you want to blow it all on one player that's your perogative but you can't sign any other rookies. That sort of stuff.

 

Udfas already have a more choice in where they play than drafted players do.

Edited October 25, 2019 by That's No Moon

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I like this, but would the lottery winner be able to trade their #1 overall pick to someone else? Let's say Mahomes gets hurt for the season early next year, and the Chiefs go 2-14 and win this lottery, AND the best player on the board is Trevor Lawrence. Can they trade the pick, or take Lawrence and trade HIM? 

 

I sound like @Virgil now, someone help me!!

 

I don't feel like thinking this morning so I'll just put down a nice gif for you.  This is my answer.

 

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

15 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode.  

If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do?  The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.)

How about this for a concept:

    1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it.  This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system.

    2. Install an auction style system in its place.  Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget.  Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250.  Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes.  

By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players.

I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round.

Any thoughts?

    

I like what you're doing here but how do you handle trading players for picks... and also.... if all things are even the first year how do you assign tie breakers for the #1 pick cause that's the year everyone goes all in after consensus QB. I like this for sure. Just some kinks to workout. Before I throw this one out, again I wanna say this is a cool idea and a good post .... BUTTTT

 

OTHER issue I'd forsee is alot less players being actually drafted. Teams would shoot their loads so early on, I cant see anyone having capital left in 5th-7th rd. Could just mean more street FAs, but guessing players union would be extremely bum hurt over that. Cool post have a good weekend brother and of course

GO BILLS

[Figster]

How about this, the order of selection is determined by the best record of teams not making the playoffs which would go 1st and so on.

 

This way a 9 - 7 team that just misses the playoffs gets that one player that makes them a playoff contender the next season vs an 0 - 16 team that as record indicates has coaching and management problems.

 

I mean how would you feel being the number 1 pick, arguably the best athlete in the nation coming out of college going to a team that clearly doesn't know what their doing. It gets good QB's injured and ruined is what the current draft accomplishes.

 

Reward teams for playing well... 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Figster

[Virgil]

36 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I like this, but would the lottery winner be able to trade their #1 overall pick to someone else? Let's say Mahomes gets hurt for the season early next year, and the Chiefs go 2-14 and win this lottery, AND the best player on the board is Trevor Lawrence. Can they trade the pick, or take Lawrence and trade HIM? 

 

I sound like @Virgil now, someone help me!!

There’s no helping you.  This is where it all goes downhill 

[Seasons1992]

15 minutes ago, Virgil said:

There’s no helping you.  This is where it all goes downhill 

 

So using your logic, I predict Eagles 28, Bills 17. 

 

Cakewalk *****es, right @teef?

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s so much harder to tank if the NFL.  If you go half speed, you will get injured. Also, guys and coaches are fighting for jobs every game.   That said, just do a draft lottery.  

 

In our fantasy league (I know it’s a little different haha), but to keep everyone competing until the end, the non playoff teams compete and the “winner” gets the 1st overall pick.  So maybe the best non playoff team gets the highest pick?

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

How about this, the order of selection is determined by the best record of teams not making the playoffs which would go 1st and so on.

 

This way a 9 - 7 team that just misses the playoffs gets that one player that makes them a playoff contender the next season vs an 0 - 16 team that as record indicates has coaching and management problems.

 

I mean how would you feel being the number 1 pick, arguably the best athlete in the nation coming out of college going to a team that clearly doesn't know what their doing. It gets good QB's injured and ruined is what the current draft accomplishes.

 

Reward teams for playing well... 

The middle of the pack Bills would have done well with this format.

 

I'm just saying...

[Buffalo03]

17 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

had nothing to do with Manning missing entire season did it?  
 

 

how many first overall QBs have won a SB recently. 
 

football isn’t the NHL or NBA tanking DOESNT fix teams immediately 

Manning missed the whole whole season but there's no way if you watched that team that you could say they weren't tanking. This was a team that went to the playoffs every year with Manning under center and he misses one year and they only win 2 games? I would believe that if they were a 7-9 team but 2-14? That's not because they lost Manning, it's because they saw an opportunity to draft what at time considered a once in a generation QB coming out of college the following year and they knew what they had to do. If they weren't tanking they could have easily traded for a halfway decent competent QB to try to at least be average until Manning returned but they chose not to. It was cleared to see when you watched them play.