Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[QCity]

9 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said:

I'll also take only one loss since December 24th ... by my count that's almost 10 months.

 

 

 

Hahaha this is a new one. Bless your hearts, Pollyannas. 

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

4 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Meaning you don't believe he has accuracy? or that you don't believe he has a deficit with accuracy?

I don't believe that accuracy is one of his deficits. Throwing people open, throwing with anticipation, sure... those things have been issues. He's also been improving on all of them, IMO.

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don't believe that accuracy is one of his deficits. Throwing people open, throwing with anticipation, sure... those things have been issues. He's also been improving on all of them, IMO.

That's what I mean and there has been some improvement. Only so much you can improve what is not natural to you under pressure though.

 

Like was said in earlier threads the weakness is exposed under pressure.

[GG]

Remember the old debates about a certain QB unable to throw receivers open?  Do we have the same issue again?

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/3/2019 at 1:30 PM, SoTier said:

This is simply untrue. 

- Roethlisberger took over for injured Tommy Maddox in the first game of his rookie season, and led the Steelers to a 15-1 record.  The next year he led them to a Super Bowl win. 

- Favre played in a totally different environment than today -- and his poor play got him traded away to the Packers.  

 

Oh, Stop right there.  Favre threw a total of 4 attempts in 2 games with Atlanta.  Their trade to GB had absolutely nothing to do with poor play from Favre.

 

OK while we're here....it's true that the Steelers were 15-1 Roethlisburger's rookie season, but they hardly rode there on his arm.  He threw less than 200 yards per game, and 11 picks.  They were 28th in the league in passing yards, 32 in passing attempts, and #1 in rushing attempts.    Roeth developed hugely to become the QB he is today.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 1:30 PM, SoTier said:

- Drew Brees played decently as a sophomore but struggled in his third year on a very poor Chargers team.   Brees came out in his fourth season, 2004, with his act all together.  He was named a Pro Bowler that season.

 

Brees played so poorly his first 3 years the Chargers believed he could not play.  His sophomore season was his first playing season, and he threw almost as many picks as TDs - 17 TD to 16 picks - the Chargers were bottom-third of the league in passing and relied on a good rushing attack for their offense.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[WideRightRevenge]

16 hours ago, ngbills said:

Here is the problem. You left out what the "Goat" did in the weeks prior to week 5 vs MIA. In week 1 it was 300 yds and 3 tds. In week 3 it was 400 yds and 4 tds. He had been throwing for at least 270 yds each game and completing 70% of his passes. 

 

Going back to final game last year against Miami (and not including last week's Pats game)  ... Josh is completing 64% of passes  .. he has 6 TD's 4 INT's (and these TD's are horrid looking vs. throwing the ball away) .. but also 4 Rushing TD's.  So that's 10 TDs vs.

 

The Bills won ... all 4 games (quality of opponents aside) ... the Pats had not given up an offensive TD all season .. Josh came out in the 2nd half and drove the team right down and scored.

 

Again my point is I'll take Wyoming Josh and no I have not started lost faith as the Op asks.

[WideRightRevenge]

14 hours ago, QCity said:

 

 

Hahaha this is a new one. Bless your hearts, Pollyannas. 

 

 

 

OK .. I'll let you enjoy last year's 1-3 start I guess .. I'll take 1 loss since December 24th .. trust the process

[JoPar_v2]

Can’t adjust expectations on a guy who has barely enough time to set any. “Faith” is a stupid word for it. 
 

Allen has exceeded my early expectations by a long shot despite the misfire or two. So no. 

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, Stop right there.  Favre threw a total of 4 attempts in 2 games with Atlanta.  Their trade to GB had absolutely nothing to do with poor play from Favre.

 

OK while we're here....it's true that the Steelers were 15-1 Roethlisburger's rookie season, but they hardly rode there on his arm.  He threw less than 200 yards per game, and 11 picks.  They were 28th in the league in passing yards, 32 in passing attempts, and #1 in rushing attempts.    Roeth developed hugely to become the QB he is today.

 

 

Brees played so poorly his first 3 years the Chargers believed he could not play.  His sophomore season was his first playing season, and he threw almost as many picks as TDs - 17 TD to 16 picks - the Chargers were bottom-third of the league in passing and relied on a good rushing attack for their offense.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

 

Even the Big Ben and Brees examples are a long time ago. The NFL is a very different environment for young QBs to where it was in the early 00s. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Even the Big Ben and Brees examples are a long time ago. The NFL is a very different environment for young QBs to where it was in the early 00s. 

 

Keep hearing this, but outside of Mahomes, who's really been in videogame mode? Watson's been DECENT. Trubisky? Bortles? Who?

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Keep hearing this, but outside of Mahomes, who's really been in videogame mode? Watson's been DECENT. Trubisky? Bortles? Who?

 

 

Watson has been more than decent. He has been very, very good. If he hadn't been the same class as Mahomes people would be raving even more. His career through 26 starts is almost historically good. Kyler Murray has put up numbers, Trubisky even (who is not a top talent) has put up decent numbers. Goff. Wentz. Prescott. Lamar. Mayfield. And I think Josh too has benefitted even if the numbers are not on par with some of those other guys. 

 

NFL offenses and college offenses have many more concepts in common now than they did even 10 years ago. Shanahan deserves the credit because he started a trend with how they incorporated Baylor stuff for RGIII his rookie year to ease the transition. That is absolutely standard practice when you draft a QB high now and as a result it is much easier to transition now than it was 15 years ago. 

[JoPar_v2]

30 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Keep hearing this, but outside of Mahomes, who's really been in videogame mode? Watson's been DECENT. Trubisky? Bortles? Who?

 

I agree with you, but Watson’s been more than decent considering his line is tissue paper. Outside of him and mahomes yeah - people can make a case for Goff and Wentz I guess. but there ain’t many.

[billsfan_34]

No way- 16 games under his belt- he has to clean some things up but he has all the tools to be successful- now he has to pull it all together.

[LyndonvilleBill]

Definitely have not lost faith. I actually have more faith in the team and his ability to lead a comeback then I have since Kelly (Reich). It has really made the games more enjoyable to watch knowing were not out of a game. I'll take a few INT's over the overly conservative TT days... He's a smart kid and still learning.  One thing I've noticed (maybe it's just me) but when Josh has more time at the line before the snap he seems to be better. Whether it's up tempo or just the call getting in earlier, he seems to be more comfortable. Again maybe it's just my old a$$ eyes...

[GG]

1 hour ago, JoPar_v2 said:

I agree with you, but Watson’s been more than decent considering his line is tissue paper. Outside of him and mahomes yeah - people can make a case for Goff and Wentz I guess. but there ain’t many.

 

The final book hasn't been written yet, but Jones & Minshew so far have looked competent running an NFL offense without resorting to gimmickry to hide their flaws (Rudolph).  We'll see how defenses adapt now there's tape of them.  For me, the key plays for those two were finding the right guys to throw to that are NFL open, not just college open.

[Woodman19]

Ever read the forum? People live and die by the bills play to play so i would expect people to lose and gain faith 30 times a game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

If you are losing faith in Allen the the truth is you never understood what kind of QB he is and never had any real conviction in him to begin with. I've been saying since the Jets game that this is who Allen is. And again after the Bengals. Great examples of our hearts being ripped out momentarily but then Allen leading us to victory. He will rip your heart out multiple times but he will also lead the team to glory.  Last week was a rip your heart out game. No doubt about. But let's not over react. It was game against a team that has been punking us for two decades now and has a defense playing at a historically great level dating back to last yeas Super Bowl where they made the Rams offense look like the Trent Dilfer led Ravens.

 

If heaving the ball into double and triple coverage and being picked off multiple times a game becomes the norm AND Allen stops producing scoring drives then I will have an issue and have to reconsider my thoughts on the kid. But for now I am totally fine with Allen and fully expected games (plural) like last weeks. But I expect to see more games like the first three. And yes, that includes the Jets game where the turnovers were more flukey in nature and Allen was moving the ball exceptionally well and was able to do what he does best in the fourth quarter. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 hours ago, ngbills said:

Here is the problem. You left out what the "Goat" did in the weeks prior to week 5 vs MIA. In week 1 it was 300 yds and 3 tds. In week 3 it was 400 yds and 4 tds. He had been throwing for at least 270 yds each game and completing 70% of his passes. 

 

And Allen had been passing for 250+ and completing over 60%. Which for Allen was a great improvement over last year/his first six games. That is something that you want to see. Is the guy improving? Then he ran into a buzz saw last week. The New England Patritos defense which is literally on the greatest 5 game run dating back to last years super bowl that the league has ever seen. And heck, Allen and all of his rawness was the only QB to score a TD and lead their offense to double digit point against the Patriots defense during that stretch. Not Goff and the Rams offense. Not Big Ben. And well, certainly not any of the other garbage the Pats played. But still.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:51 PM, Bangarang said:

 

How so?

 

Perhaps I  missed them but which reasons?

 

 

His completion percentage in college was 56% and so far in the NFL it's 55% (60% this year). His completion percentage this year is definitely an improvement over last year though but I never thought Allen was the kind of QB that would stay in the low 50's for completion percentage. I just equate that to having really bad receivers and a bad o-line. 

 

See what I mean about linear growth? He had a step back against the pats, but he is progressing again. The general trajectory is still up. 

[prissythecat]

Do some Bills fans lose faith too quickly.  Just like the Ed Oliver is a bust threads?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I like this trend. Instructional.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, prissythecat said:

Do some Bills fans lose faith too quickly.  Just like the Ed Oliver is a bust threads?

To be fair Ed Oliver wasn't playing good football early on and fans thought he was. I had many arguments. Glad he's showing up as a pass rusher. We needed him, glad to be proven wrong about him. Long way to go still, but encouraging.

[Nitro]

The more I read this post the more amused I am.  The guy is a young QB growing into his role and learning how to be a pro QB.  Progress is made weekly and I think the kid is good.

[freddyjj]

So can we start a "Have you lost faith in Devin Singletary yet?" post now?

[Teddy KGB]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:57 AM, Teddy KGB said:

Hell no.      If he finishes the game we probably win.  

 

All these sky are falling at 3-1 posts are pretty lame 

 

Nailed it ?????

[Phil The Thrill]

10 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

So can we start a "Have you lost faith in Devin Singletary yet?" post now?

Oh please.... you have to remember the context when this thread was started.  Josh had many subpar moments over the first few weeks of the season, and then play arguably his worst game at QB vs. New England.

 

I think at the time, it was a reasonable question to ask, though you can make a point that I should have considered the long term

[H2o]

I love how people are finding these old threads and giving them a bump back to relevance. Pretty entertaining. 

[ngbills]

27 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

Do some Bills fans lose faith too quickly.  Just like the Ed Oliver is a bust threads?

I look at as discussion. If someone is not playing well why not have a conversation about it? Some dont want to hear anything negative. Reality is Oliver was not playing great and was losing snaps. Maybe that was the wake up call he needed to motivate himself. I would say the Allen debates are slightly different, but still why are other QB's doing xyz and Allen is not. Worth a discussion though some will again say your a hater etc. My point of view is always if you dont like what your reading and dont want to actually discuss it then go to another thread. There are plenty out there. If I come across a discussion about baking cookies I am going to move on to the next one, not get all fired up and attack people for talking about cookies.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Oh please.... you have to remember the context when this thread was started.  Josh had many subpar moments over the first few weeks of the season, and then play arguably his worst game at QB vs. New England.

 

I think at the time, it was a reasonable question to ask, though you can make a point that I should have considered the long term

 

Yes, that’s always important to consider. 

[Victory Formation]

And there will still be other bumps in the road that cause some fans to tumble off of the wagon. Until he has another good game and they pile back on again. Isn’t that how things work here?

[GoBills808]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:28 AM, jrober38 said:

 

Two QBs who look like they might be done in the NFL. lol

 

Sure, there's more to it than just stats, but when your stats are as bad as Allen's, it's just a matter of time until you get benched.  lmao

 

You can't be at the bottom of the NFL in passer efficiency and be a legit franchise QB. At some point the excuses run out and you actually have to put up numbers.  lolololol so good

Attention jrober38...jrober38 your awful takes are running around on aisle 3...jrober38 please come pick up your terrible takes

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I look at as discussion. If someone is not playing well why not have a conversation about it? Some dont want to hear anything negative. Reality is Oliver was not playing great and was losing snaps. Maybe that was the wake up call he needed to motivate himself. I would say the Allen debates are slightly different, but still why are other QB's doing xyz and Allen is not. Worth a discussion though some will again say your a hater etc. My point of view is always if you dont like what your reading and dont want to actually discuss it then go to another thread. There are plenty out there. If I come across a discussion about baking cookies I am going to move on to the next one, not get all fired up and attack people for talking about cookies.

 

You make all the bitching sound benign. it wasn't. ever.

 

[H2o]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:45 AM, H2o said:

No, not at all. Josh had an absolutely horrible first half. He was pressing in this game like no other because he wanted to beat the Pats in front of the home fans. That led to the hero ball we all talk about at times. In playing hero ball he missed a few WIDE open guys underneath that had the potential to catch and run with the ball afterwards for big gains. He was under pressure all day though, ALL day. For all of the work done to the offensive line, you couldn't tell in pass protection most of the time. Even still let's note that on the first drive of the 2nd half he came out 6 for 6 passing with a rushing TD. I truly believe that if he had not been knocked out of the game the result would have been different. The thing that is concerning me this year is where Josh was hitting those deep routes last year, this year he is about 2-5 yards off with every throw. His short and intermediate accuracy is better for the most part, but he seems to have lost his touch on the deep ball. 

And now that I have watched Josh connect on a few of these, along with the steady improvement in the rest of his game, I couldn't be happier.  It is funny to watch people get all bent out of shape about what they previously posted though. 

[GregPersons]

Bills play well — They were always good, you idiots! Even when they were losing! How could you not see this at the time??

 

Bills play bad —  They were always bad, you idiots! Even when they were winning! How could you not see this at the time??

Edited December 2, 2019 by GregPersons

[freddyjj]

14 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Oh please.... you have to remember the context when this thread was started.  Josh had many subpar moments over the first few weeks of the season, and then play arguably his worst game at QB vs. New England.

 

I think at the time, it was a reasonable question to ask, though you can make a point that I should have considered the long term

Sorry Phil the Thrill, just having a laugh here.  Some people on here have their Cody Ford, Ed Oliver and Dawson Knox pitchforks out too!

[Phil The Thrill]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Sorry Phil the Thrill, just having a laugh here.  Some people on here have their Cody Ford, Ed Oliver and Dawson Knox pitchforks out too!

If it means that Allen will continue to play well well, I am happy to be everyone’s laughing stock.  

[Buffalo Boy]

47 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I like this trend. Instructional.

 

Better yet is knowing you are somewhere in the thread telling them to “ Relax” ?

[BillsFanSD]

10 minutes ago, Sunshower said:

And there will still be other bumps in the road that cause some fans to tumble off of the wagon. Until he has another good game and they pile back on again. Isn’t that how things work here?

I fully expect to transition seamlessly back to doom-and-gloom if we lose a close game to Baltimore.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

Bills play well — They were always good, you idiots! Even when they were losing! How could you not see this at the time??

 

Bills play bad —  They were always bad, you idiots! Even when they were winning! How could you not see this at the time??

Nah try again

[colin]

On 10/5/2019 at 9:10 AM, LyndonvilleBill said:

Definitely have not lost faith. I actually have more faith in the team and his ability to lead a comeback then I have since Kelly (Reich). It has really made the games more enjoyable to watch knowing were not out of a game. I'll take a few INT's over the overly conservative TT days... He's a smart kid and still learning.  One thing I've noticed (maybe it's just me) but when Josh has more time at the line before the snap he seems to be better. Whether it's up tempo or just the call getting in earlier, he seems to be more comfortable. Again maybe it's just my old a$$ eyes...

 

 

bro, hammer on the nail!