Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 29 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ultimately if you think josh is the guy you are in your 2-3 year window and outside QB getting a stud DE might be the biggest impact and we CAN and SHOULD spend a little belligerently for a minute. If not him, I’m down for other suggestions but he seems the prototype for us. They already showed an interest in AB (who I’d argue is the other big need). In addition, to “if Josh is the guy” the roster is deep. It’s not like they are going to have 10 draft picks make the team in 2020. They have the most cap space in the league already. This is the EXACT type of investment that the Bills should make. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, Virgil said: Wait, where is this coming from? This is all from the trending part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Agree, I think Shaq is a really good football player. My dad always says that he reminds him of Phil Hansen and I think that’s a decent comparison. He’s stout against the run and a decent pass rusher. He’s just a solid NFL player. He’s the kind of guy that the Patriots always have. Yeah he brings a physical element they otherwise lack at DE and even though he's not been a good one-on-one rusher he has always been an opportunistic vulture if others can force the chaos. On paper Shaq loses snaps to Clowney but since Clowney can be moved all over I think Shaq gets more opportunity to make plays in a defense with Clowney. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: They already showed an interest in AB (who I’d argue is the other big need). In addition, to “if Josh is the guy” the roster is deep. It’s not like they are going to have 10 draft picks make the team in 2020. They have the most cap space in the league already. This is the EXACT type of investment that the Bills should make. Bingo. It regularly blows my mind how many here think we’ve nailed it with this regime but also think our window is years away. If you aren’t willing to put some chips on the table now, I don’t know when you will. I agree beane is thinking in these terms despite many citing it not being process-y 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike in Syracuse said: Honestly, the Bills had the #2 defense last year with a hobbled Murphy. Is adding Clowney really going to make that big of a difference? Especially on a one year rental? We had the 18th ranked defense. Points allowed is all that matters. Yards allowed is meaningless if you can't keep your opponents from scoring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 I am surprised to see Miami mentioned in the rumors. They are a prime candidate for the #1 overall pick - are they going to give that up for Clowney in a rebuilding year? That is the last team I would expect to make this trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I am surprised to see Miami mentioned in the rumors. They are a prime candidate for the #1 overall pick - are they going to give that up for Clowney in a rebuilding year? That is the last team I would expect to make this trade. No, the talk is Tunsil and a pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, msw2112 said: I agree with those who want to take a pass on Clowney. I see him as a Dareus-like player (albeit with a much better physique). He is highly talented and would be paid top dollar as such, but is not highly motivated. Whatever team signs him to a large, long-term deal will regret it later. Clowney is the exact type of player (like Dareus) that causes teams to get into salary cap jail. I hate the Patriots as much as the next guy, but they manage their cap extremely well. They get rid of guys like this and let some other team take on the headaches and salary cap issues. When they do get "problem child" types of players, which they sometimes do (see Josh Gordon, Randy Moss, etc.), it's usually on the cheap, when the guys are running out of chances and trying to re-establish themselves. If it works out, they get a bargain and if it doesn't, they can get rid of them with little cap impact. Watch Clowney play and don’t focus on raw sack numbers. Look at tackles for loss, for instance. It’s where he excels. He is a truly elite player and doesn’t underproduce. By PFF, he has been elite-level the past two seasons. This is indicative: https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/30/jadeveon-clowney-deandre-hopkins-post-blistering-pff-scores-vs-seattle/ Edited August 13, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I am surprised to see Miami mentioned in the rumors. They are a prime candidate for the #1 overall pick - are they going to give that up for Clowney in a rebuilding year? That is the last team I would expect to make this trade. I’d assume 33 not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Youd quite literally be spending the high pick hoping to get a guy not as good as this. Because we are not spending on a qb, we don’t need to horde picks and pray for luck. We can go get the guy we need and win now. Ill keep echoing- if you think josh, McD and beane are the trio; then you need to think we are contenders now and be making moves to put a trophy in the shelf within the next 18 months. to the guy talking about the pats- it’s just apples to oranges. You need to be looking at the rams, and eagles, or the 9ers and Seahawks of a couple years ago. We need to be that team that fans in Tampa bay and Arizona say “how do they keep adding these guys.” At the end of the run if josh is the dude then you retool into a pats style model. It’s not who we should be today though. I remember this argument at draft time. Clowney in all probability is better now than any DE that we would draft in 2020 and he is a proven player. It seems like he has been around for years, yet he is only 26. He would probably fit in the Bills defense seamlessly. Edited August 13, 2019 by Rocket94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I’d assume 33 not 1 I assumed a 1st round pick was the floor for a Clowney trade. Maybe with the weird contract situation he wouldn't cost that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 How are his feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: How are his feet? Rex? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 clowny is a type of defensive player you have to game plan for or he wrecks your offense. He’s not the best d end in the league but a dangerous one nonetheless. He’s a great grab for this defense if we can get him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: This doesn’t seem like a very “processy” move to me. Several picks for Clowney? No thanks..... Yep. Multiple picks plus big $ if they are able to sign him in next off-season. Doesn't like a Beane thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wild Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Am I giant Clowney fan? Not at all. But the thought of Hughes, Oliver and Clowney going after Brady and the other QBs sounds great. I would be okay with a 2nd or a 3rd/4th and Shaq Lawson. Saying we could get an extension of course 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Big money and giving up high picks doesn’t work. Anything above Shaq Lawson and a 3rd is a dealbreaker for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 If he was a free agent I'd be hesitant to give him that much money but having to give up a likely 1st round pick along with that much money would be a gigantic mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: I remember this argument at draft time. Clowney in all probability is better now than any DE that we would draft in 2020 and he is a proven player. It seems like he has been around for years, yet he is only 26. He would probably fit in the Bills defense seamlessly. It would have been a better trade at draft time for both sides. Texans get a 2019 pick and Bills have opportunity to sign him to an extension. Now Texans need a player in return in addition to a 2020 pick and Bills are past the timeline to sign him to an extension, which is a big risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Unless he is getting a big deal, it would make sense. Or not getting the deal or turning down. I can see it. But people are trending like Michael J Fox for no reason. If it is that he is dying it would be one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Would you trade Hughes straight up for Clowney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mr Wild said: Am I giant Clowney fan? Not at all. But the thought of Hughes, Oliver and Clowney going after Brady and the other QBs sounds great. I would be okay with a 2nd or a 3rd/4th and Shaq Lawson. Saying we could get an extension of course That’s the risk I highly doubt they would take. Giving up valuable picks next year for a guy you don’t know you will have past this year. That’s a poor use of assets. They could do a handshake deal i suppose but I wouldn’t trust that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDman Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Would you trade Hughes straight up for Clowney? nope hughes is on a great contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 My guess is Clowney ends up in Washington and both Clowney and the Skins end up regretting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wild Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: That’s the risk I highly doubt they would take. Giving up valuable picks next year for a guy you don’t know you will have past this year. That’s a poor use of assets. They could do a handshake deal i suppose but I wouldn’t trust that. I know it is against the rules but I feel like most teams would not trade without at least a deal in place. It is basically what happened with AB (I know he isnt the best example right now but at the time they were happy) It all depends if we want to do the Seattle and LA thing. Stack the defense during their QBs rookie deal. If we are trying to win a title in the next two years a 3rd wont be the reason we dont do it but Clowney would help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Wild said: I know it is against the rules but I feel like most teams would not trade without at least a deal in place. It is basically what happened with AB (I know he isnt the best example right now but at the time they were happy) It all depends if we want to do the Seattle and LA thing. Stack the defense during their QBs rookie deal. If we are trying to win a title in the next two years a 3rd wont be the reason we dont do it but Clowney would help It’s different. With AB, Raiders were able to do a new deal with him because it took place in March. Bills (or anyone) cannot do a deal with Clowney until after this season because he’s on the franchise tag and it’s past the July 15 deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 No, only because a DE named Yannick Ngakoue (JAX) will be an unrestricted FA next year. While everyone trips over themselves going for Clowney, McBeane should have Ngakoue on speed dial. He held out this preseason and does not seem to be too happy that he wasn't extended. He is 24 right now so will be 25 entering his 5th season as an unrestricted FA. He has 29.5 sacks in 3 years, almost 10 a year. Jacksonville drafted Josh Allen as his replacement. Jacksonville is 8 million over the cap in 2020 as of now (according to Over the cap). https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/jacksonville-jaguars/ I'll take a motivated 25 yr old averaging 10 sacks a year to be my new bookmark DE to pair on the DL with Oliver. Jax can't resign him without doing roster damage. Why lose picks and get a rental that hasn't produced, when the answer to DE is a UFA next year? And we can stick it to Marrone a bit. https://www.jaguars.com/team/players-roster/yannick-ngakoue/career (not updated for 3rd year) Originally drafted by Jacksonville in the third round (69th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft PRO (Games played/started - 32/31, 3/3) • Made his NFL debut in team’s season opener in 2016 • Owns the franchise rookie record for sacks in a single season (8.0) • Of his first 20.0 career sacks, 10 have been strip-sacks • His 20.0 sacks in first 32 career games are the most by a Jaguars player in franchise history • Led the league with six forced fumbles in 2017 • Earned his first career Pro Bowl nod in 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Clowney would make this defense elite. Few other players that are potentially available would do that. We have the resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It would have been a better trade at draft time for both sides. Texans get a 2019 pick and Bills have opportunity to sign him to an extension. Now Texans need a player in return in addition to a 2020 pick and Bills are past the timeline to sign him to an extension, which is a big risk. Yes it would have, but Beane probably found it necessary to stick to his draft board. Now that preseason is here, the Bills have a much better idea of what this team is and how to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Rocket94 said: Yes it would have, but Beane probably found it necessary to stick to his draft board. Now that preseason is here, the Bills have a much better idea of what this team is and how to move forward. If Clowney walks in March, he’s stuck both without Clowney and what I assume would be a high 2020 pick. I can’t see Beane taking that risk. I could have seen him trading a pick and signing Clowney to an extension back in April when he still could. Now it’s just a high risk trade for anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkollidas Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It was a good not great defense that was pumped up by getting stomped in a few games where teams took their foot off the pedal in the 2nd half. if this defense got an elite pass rusher, it has potential to be great. I don’t think JC is an elite pass rusher but he would be the best DE on this team. Definitely isn’t worth what he is going to get paid though. I am kinda indifferent on getting him because of his lack of elite pass rush skills. You could also argue that they were hurt by having a bad offense that often put them in bad field position throughout the season. There’s always a flip side, but I think the defense was very good last year. I do think the one thing they’re missing is an elite pass rusher. But I agree with you that Clowney is not it. Also, Hughes may not have put up huge sack #’s, but he did put up great pressure numbers and was amongst the top players in the league. I think adding Oliver and having Murphy healthy will be a big deal for the pass rush. Lastly, I believe Darryl Johnson could become a player. Small school guy who put up very good numbers there and has elite size for the DE position while still having good speed & burst (especially considering the size/length he carries). I honestly think they'll look to draft there and wide receiver early on next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, YoloinOhio said: If Clowney walks in March, he’s stuck both without Clowney and what I assume would be a high 2020 pick. I can’t see Beane taking that risk. I could have seen him trading a pick and signing Clowney to an extension back in April when he still could. Now it’s just a high risk trade for anyone. I understand that. That is why I stated earlier that any deal for Clowney would contain an understanding on both sides, or if the Bills were convinced that he would. Why trade for a player if your not certain you can sign him. If the Bills did trade for Clowney...it would be for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: I understand that. That is why I stated earlier that any deal for Clowney would contain an understanding on both sides, or if the Bills were convinced that he would. Why trade for a player if your not certain you can sign him. If the Bills did trade for Clowney...it would be for the long haul. That “understanding” would need to last until March 2020. Just not realistic to trust something like that, for a trade right now to be feasible with Clowney. Too much can change in that length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: No, only because a DE named Yannick Ngakoue (JAX) will be an unrestricted FA next year. While everyone trips over themselves going for Clowney, McBeane should have Ngakoue on speed dial. He held out this preseason and does not seem to be too happy that he wasn't extended. He is 24 right now so will be 25 entering his 5th season as an unrestricted FA. He has 29.5 sacks in 3 years, almost 10 a year. Jacksonville drafted Josh Allen as his replacement. Jacksonville is 8 million over the cap in 2020 as of now (according to Over the cap). https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/jacksonville-jaguars/ I'll take a motivated 25 yr old averaging 10 sacks a year to be my new bookmark DE to pair on the DL with Oliver. Jax can't resign him without doing roster damage. Why lose picks and get a rental that hasn't produced, when the answer to DE is a UFA next year? And we can stick it to Marrone a bit. https://www.jaguars.com/team/players-roster/yannick-ngakoue/career (not updated for 3rd year) Originally drafted by Jacksonville in the third round (69th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft PRO (Games played/started - 32/31, 3/3) • Made his NFL debut in team’s season opener in 2016 • Owns the franchise rookie record for sacks in a single season (8.0) • Of his first 20.0 career sacks, 10 have been strip-sacks • His 20.0 sacks in first 32 career games are the most by a Jaguars player in franchise history • Led the league with six forced fumbles in 2017 • Earned his first career Pro Bowl nod in 2017 Because he will be most sought out FA next year and they have no idea if they can sign him. A trade lands you the player you covet. That being said, I won’t be mad if we trade for Clowney, but my preference is to stay the course. We’ve been crushing the draft and I also love what I we are hearing and seeing about a healthy Murphy this year. Its more the inevitable contract that I’m least attracted to with Clowney. But he would be an exciting add. Edited August 13, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Rumors are he is about to get traded. Teams that are mentioned in the trend are Redskins - Their Disgruntled LT Ravens - Jimmy Smith and more Dolphins - Tunsil and more Bills - Multiple Picks Colts - LT and Picks that is all the teams I have seen mentioned in the Trend. For what it is worth An NBA Writer dating To Dolphins for Tunsil and Picks. A blockbuster trade for Clowney just seem to be consistent with the moves Beane and McDermott would make. I would bet anything he doesn’t get traded to Buffalo. I think that Indy could be an interesting candidate for a trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: That “understanding” would need to last until March 2020. Just not realistic to trust something like that, for a trade right now to be feasible with Clowney. Too much can change in that length of time. Oh absolutely! This is all speculative at best. This story has been "trending" for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Jeez, I think this FO has shown that they can identify elite talent in the draft. So, to me, it makes little sense to go after an elite high dollar run defender vs an elite pass rusher like Mack. Mack was worth the money and draft picks. JMO I kinda hope the Dolphins do trade for him and give up the farm. They had Suh and it got them nowhere...on that thought the Bills had the #4 overall defense, the #1 pass rush in the NFL in 2014 and it got them to 9-7, which was second in the AFC East behind the 12-4 Patriots. At this point I'm glad the Bills didn't sign Brown with his foot/helmet issues. Build through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Holy *****. Is this really happening? Http://espn.go.com/schefter82749.rumor928282.billstexans 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeIGiveADarn Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Virgil said: Holy *****. Is this really happening? Http://espn.go.com/schefter82749.rumor928282.billstexans You know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, Virgil said: Holy *****. Is this really happening? Http://espn.go.com/schefter82749.rumor928282.billstexans Dishonor. Dishonor on you. Dishonor on your family. Dishonor on your cow! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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