These last 2 drafts have been incredible and McBeane deserve more credit.

[SoTier]

This thread is at least 90% BS.  The only thing about the last two drafts that has been "incredible" is all the bull manure that McDermott/Beane cheerleaders on TSW make up about them -- and the outright lies they make up to "prove" their points.

• The only 2017 draft that Brandon Beane had a hand-in was the Carolina Panthers' draft -- if he had all much to do with it at all as his responsibilities as Assistant GM in Carolina did not seem to include college player evaluation.

• Sean McDermott was in charge of the 2017 draft as he won the power struggle with GM Doug Whaley who was fired immediately after the 2017 draft.

• The 2015 and 2016 Bills teams were pretty talented teams that McDermott and Beane chose to dismantle for their own reasons, and that's proven by the fact that several of the players that the Bills chose to get rid of in 2017 and 2018, most notably Stephon Gilmore (All Pro CB), Robert Woods, and Cordy Glenn, went on to play well/great with their new teams -- and certainly better than the players that McDermott and Beane kept or added to the team to replace them.

• Moreover, the 2015 and 2016 Bills were considered poorly coached exactly because they had pretty good talent.  The problem with the 2015-2016 teams was that they could not "finish" out games, too frequently giving up leads late in games.  They weren't teams that were over-matched often, having only lost by 2 TDs or more 4 times in 2 seasons.  Instead of building on that talent base, McDermott and Beane choose to strip the Bills of most of that talent and replace it with 2nd and 3rd rate talent as part of McDermott’s “process”.  The result was that while McDermott-Beane's Bills have the same aggregate 2 year record (15-17) as Whaley-Ryan's teams, they lost 4 games by 2 TDs or more in 2017 and added 5 more 14 point or more losses in 2018.  

• The Bills got one quality starter out of the 2017 draft: Tre White.  Dawkins and Milano are decent starters but nothing spectacular – and Dawkins’ play without Pro Bowl LG Richie Incognito beside him seriously declined in 2018, and exposed the fact that he would make a better guard than a tackle.

• The real story of the Bills 2017 draft is the missed opportunities, and that makes it a terrible draft. 
  • Passing on Patrick Mahomes was a major faux pas no matter how great a CB White turns out to be career wise.  Arguing that Mahomes wouldn’t have put up numbers like he does in KC is simply displaying ignorance.  Mahomes is a play-maker fully capable of lifting the play of his teammates and covering team flaws the same way that great QBs like Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady have done. 

  • The Bills traded up in the second round to take Zay Jones when they could have had Juju Smith-Schuster.  Smith-Schuster has been a good WR from the get-go while to say that Jones has struggled is an understatement.  Yes, he improved in 2018 but his play in 2017 was so bad that he had nowhere to go but up.  If he winds up as a starter in 2019, it’s because the veteran FA WRs the Bills brought in failed or got injured.

  • The Bills wasted a fifth round pick and a roster spot on Nathan Peterman in 2017 – and lost games because of it in both 2017 and 2018.  That fifth rounder could have been much better used on just about any other position on the team and the Bills would have been better off. 

• It is still at least two years too early to judge the 2018 draft.  Some of the rookies who barely played will emerge to become stars in the league, and some of the rookies who looked the most promising will sink.  It’s highly unlikely that all five of the QBs taken in Round 1 will still be starters by the end of 2020 because most drafts yield only 1 franchise QB at best.  Maybe 20 or 25% of drafts produce 1 franchise QB and 1 or 2 other QBs who are at least quality starters for several years.  Rarely do drafts produce more than 1 bonafide franchise QB, and many drafts don’t produce any. 

• Hopefully, Allen develops into a franchise QB at least on the level of  QBs like Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan or Matthew Stafford.   Because the Bills spent so much to get him, he needs to be better than just an Alex Smith or Joe Flacco.  If Allen fails to progress, the McDermott-Beane regime is doomed.

• Edmunds played decently as a rookie but displayed the faults that scouts noted before the draft, notably the ability to instinctively react to plays.  Maybe that’s something that he’ll develop or maybe he should be playing on the outside to take full advantage of his talents as many have suggested.

• Wyatt Teller might be a “diamond in the rough” but he might also be only slightly less incompetent than the incompetent guard he replaced.  The Bills OL in 2018 was one of the worst in the league, so becoming a starter on it for less than half a season doesn’t make anybody on it something to write home about.  Would Teller be starting on teams with even mediocre OLs?

 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Right.. right.. 

 

His 2016 draft was quality..

 

They were attempting to re-tool an obsolete wrecks scheme. It’s why you don’t let needs dictate picks. 

 

Its doesnt have have to be such a polarizing extreme.  Whaley could have positively contributed to the ‘17 draft.  It doesn’t mean everything that’s happened since wasn’t good for the franchise. 

 

 

[BillsFan1988]

53 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. You never know how a pick is going to work out. The consensus on Mahomes is pretty much the same across the board: if he hadn't landed in KC with Reid and that supporting cast he's probably nowhere near the QB he's become. And look at the other players you mentioned, they're all playing with franchise QBs, except maybe Kittle because he did what he did last year without Garoppolo. Kamara has Drew Brees and Sean Payton, one of the most creative offensive minds ever, JuJu has Ben and now he'll be "the guy" without AB there, Galladay has Stafford and Kupp has Goff. Maurice Hurst was diagnosed with a heart condition at the combine last year and fell down a lot of boards. He racked up 30 tackles and 4 sacks last year, I wouldn't exactly call that game changing. Milano, drafted two rounds later than Hurst, had 78 tackles, 13.5 of them for loss, forced a fumble, recovered three fumbles and had three interceptions. That's six separate times he got the ball back for the offense. I'd say that can be game-changing. It's easy to sit back and say "oh they missed out on that guy!" once that guy has an outstanding season. But guess what? 31 other teams missed out on that guy as well. It's just how it goes.

I actually follow the draft pretty closely every yr it's a hobby of mine . Mahomes I had him rated #1 that yr and I wish the Bills had taken him.  U can say all u want about hindsight if u like but don't know me buddy. 

 

Now to your football acumen.  You compared Hurst a DT3 to a Will LBer in Milano. Cmon man. 30tks and 4sacks is great for a rookie DT on a horrible team. How many times did Hurst get to tee off and pass rush while his team was winning gms? Not many huh. 

 

I said the Bills were headed in the right direction but it's getting borderline overboard with the Beane love when we haven't done anything yet. Imagine had we won 11gms last yr the Beane posts would never stop. Don't get mad at me for pointing out mistakes this administration has made these last 2yrs. Btw I was saying these were mistakes during the draft so I known I have a foot to stand on. 

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I know people will talk about Beane not being GM yet but him and McDermott have their fingerprints all over the 2017 draft.

 

Just off the bat , these drafts were 'Franchise Changing'. We're going to have 8-10 starters from these drafts entering week 1 of the upcoming season! And most these guys are high end starters. That's pretty amazing. 

 

Milano - Edmunds

Tre -Taron - Levi

 

Totally rebuilt the D in 2 years, that's incredible.

5 legit starters that all played a huge part in the #2 pass defense.

 

Harry Phillips plays a key role and can only improve.

Siran Neal is okay depth but again , he can only get better.

 

Even minus Neal , we added 6 legit contributers on defense in 2 years.

 

Dawkins - Teller (?)

            Allen

Foster

 

So there's 3 legit starters , including Franchise QB .

Then you got Zay , Teller , Croom as good depth and should be major contributers.

 

That's 6 legit contributers on offense going into next year.

 

In that 2 year span we averaged 4 starters and 6 impact players. That's amazing when you think about it. These 2 drafts already have and will continue to have a huge impact on this franchise.

 

This is how you build a team and set them up for long term success. 

If we can continue to draft this well , we'd have long term,. Sustainable success. I've been saying that since they were hired . I've just had this gut feeling about them . 15 wins with their rosters is extremely impressive. Both seem to have the exact same vision and blueprint and work well together. Calculated, intelligent , patient .  Big things are in store for this franchise. 

Wallace and Foster were not drafted but I get your point to a degree. I hope they focus a bit more on blocking.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Bill from NYC

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

It's really tough to say anything about the 2018 class.  Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Harrison Phillips, Taron Johnson and Wyatt Teller - along with Levi Wallace and Robert Foster (UDFA) all flashed various levels of long-term starting potential.  But it will be another season or two before we can be confident whether they will work out or not.

 

 

I saw flashes from Allen, Edmunds, Johnson, Teller, Foster and Wallace. Not so much from Phillips. Granted he played a limited amount of snaps, but I don't think he should be viewed as anything more than depth at this point.

 

I would have liked to see him flash a bit more than never.

[26TrapDraw]

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Fair comments, but I think most reasonable posters here have said they have drafted pretty well the last 2 years..

Don't you dare accuse us of being reasonable. I'm offended and frankly hurt.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Needs to pull another draft day double down... Manage to snag Bosa and Hockenson.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

It seems these guys are on the same page. Keep having drafts where you nail three starters and you will be successful for a long time

 

Well, being named a "starter" on a team that doesn't have a competent starter at that position isn't quite the same as being named the starter over a competent veteran who could be starter on most teams in the league.   Stephon Gilmore was gone before Tre White was drafted.  Cordy Glenn was injured in 2017 and then traded away in 2018, and when Dion Dawkins didn't have Richie Incognito helping him out in 2018, he sucked.  In 2018 Allen, Edmunds, and Teller had absolutely no viable competition to beat out, and in Allen's case, the Bills brain trust of McDermott and Beane made sure of that by trading away Taylor before the draft and McCarron before the regular while keeping Peterman on the roster.

 

1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I know what I said and u must not of understood me.  The team was gutted so u can't bring Sammy or Gilmore into the discussion.  Opportunity for guys like Foster and Wallace to prove there good NFL players come from the lack of talent on this team.  If Gilmore and Sammy was here the only opportunity these guys would of had was watching them perform on the bench . Teams that suck usually find more UDFA then teams that are great.  Matter of fact the better UDFA choose to go to those teams because they have more of an opportunity to stick on those teams. 

 

I understood you perfectly.  You claimed that the Bills lacked talent before the arrival of McDermott and Beane, and that's simply untrue.  They had talent but chose to get rid of it rather than build on the foundation that they had.   So, the absence of Gilmore, Woods, Goodwin, Watkins, Brown, Glenn, Taylor, Dareus, etc and all the others are very much in play in any discussion of the McDermott-Beane regime.

 

Talent recognition is the major function of any team's GM or HC/GM combo, and at best, McDermott and Beane have done a mediocre job at best.  They shed good talent for nothing or next to nothing.  They have overpaid and/or totally missed on poor talent like Jones and Peterman.  They gamble on projects and apparently think that hard work and practice can somehow turn poor players into good ones when the talent simply isn't there.

 

If White beat out Gilmore for the starting job, THAT would be an accomplishment.  Beating out air ain't nothing to brag about.  If Dawkins beat out a healthy Glenn, then he's the real deal.  Beating air ain't nothing.  Allen beating out Taylor would be a big deal -- that's exactly what Mayfield did in Cleveland -- but beating out Nate Peterman is less than nothing.

 

[ndirish1978]

44 minutes ago, SoTier said:

This thread is at least 90% BS.  The only thing about the last two drafts that has been "incredible" is all the bull manure that McDermott/Beane cheerleaders on TSW make up about them -- and the outright lies they make up to "prove" their points.

 

 

I didn't bother reading this tome of a post beyond the opening sentence. I presume I can summarize it by saying "some guy ?s on our last 2 drafts for whatever reason." Did I get it right?

[HappyDays]

I think people underrate the importance of good coaching and planning. You can't just scout and draft talent. You need a plan for what kinds of players you need for your scheme, and then you need to coach them up. Maybe if Matt Milano had been drafted by the Raiders he would be a backup instead of a future Pro Bowler. That's what sets this regime apart so far. They're creating an identity and finding players that fit, and then they're actually developing them.

[blacklabel]

39 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I actually follow the draft pretty closely every yr it's a hobby of mine . Mahomes I had him rated #1 that yr and I wish the Bills had taken him.  U can say all u want about hindsight if u like but don't know me buddy. 

 

Now to your football acumen.  You compared Hurst a DT3 to a Will LBer in Milano. Cmon man. 30tks and 4sacks is great for a rookie DT on a horrible team. How many times did Hurst get to tee off and pass rush while his team was winning gms? Not many huh. 

 

I said the Bills were headed in the right direction but it's getting borderline overboard with the Beane love when we haven't done anything yet. Imagine had we won 11gms last yr the Beane posts would never stop. Don't get mad at me for pointing out mistakes this administration has made these last 2yrs. Btw I was saying these were mistakes during the draft so I known I have a foot to stand on. 

 

If you think Mahomes would've had the same success here as he did in KC you're mistaken. 

 

And I compared Milano to Hurst to show that a guy drafted in the fifth had more of an impact than a guy drafted two rounds earlier. Milano also made more game-changing plays which is something you feel their draft picks lack. You came back with "oh, you can't compare a linebacker and a DT" except you didn't point that out in your initial post. You just said their picks haven't been game-changers and I highlighted a draft pick of theirs that has made some game-changing plays in terms of turnovers. 

[BillsFan1988]

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Well, being named a "starter" on a team that doesn't have a competent starter at that position isn't quite the same as being named the starter over a competent veteran who could be starter on most teams in the league.   Stephon Gilmore was gone before Tre White was drafted.  Cordy Glenn was injured in 2017 and then traded away in 2018, and when Dion Dawkins didn't have Richie Incognito helping him out in 2018, he sucked.  In 2018 Allen, Edmunds, and Teller had absolutely no viable competition to beat out, and in Allen's case, the Bills brain trust of McDermott and Beane made sure of that by trading away Taylor before the draft and McCarron before the regular while keeping Peterman on the roster.

 

 

I understood you perfectly.  You claimed that the Bills lacked talent before the arrival of McDermott and Beane, and that's simply untrue.  They had talent but chose to get rid of it rather than build on the foundation that they had.   So, the absence of Gilmore, Woods, Goodwin, Watkins, Brown, Glenn, Taylor, Dareus, etc and all the others are very much in play in any discussion of the McDermott-Beane regime.

 

Talent recognition is the major function of any team's GM or HC/GM combo, and at best, McDermott and Beane have done a mediocre job at best.  They shed good talent for nothing or next to nothing.  They have overpaid and/or totally missed on poor talent like Jones and Peterman.  They gamble on projects and apparently think that hard work and practice can somehow turn poor players into good ones when the talent simply isn't there.

 

If White beat out Gilmore for the starting job, THAT would be an accomplishment.  Beating out air ain't nothing to brag about.  If Dawkins beat out a healthy Glenn, then he's the real deal.  Beating air ain't nothing.  Allen beating out Taylor would be a big deal -- that's exactly what Mayfield did in Cleveland -- but beating out Nate Peterman is less than nothing.

 

No I didn't claim before they arrived that's were u misunderstood me.  I was talking in reference to the rookies that started like Wallace and Foster . Basically we didn't have talent so they got there opportunity to play and prove there worth.  If they went to a more stable situation they would still be in Flux. Maybe not even in the league at all.  I wonder how many players are just a casualty circumstances. 

[BillsFan1988]

23 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

If you think Mahomes would've had the same success here as he did in KC you're mistaken. 

 

And I compared Milano to Hurst to show that a guy drafted in the fifth had more of an impact than a guy drafted two rounds earlier. Milano also made more game-changing plays which is something you feel their draft picks lack. You came back with "oh, you can't compare a linebacker and a DT" except you didn't point that out in your initial post. You just said their picks haven't been game-changers and I highlighted a draft pick of theirs that has made some game-changing plays in terms of turnovers. 

I dont consider Milano a game changer i consider him a borderline pro bowler.  Which is great for a 5th rd pk. He makes plays there's no doubt but that's not all that makes a player a game changer in my opinion.  A game changer is a player the other teams must account for in a major way in there gm plan a player that opens it up for other teammates.  Milano plays well in our system and is a great fit for Mcd. But he is not a game changer yet. 

[blacklabel]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I dont consider Milano a game changer i consider him a borderline pro bowler.  Which is great for a 5th rd pk. He makes plays there's no doubt but that's not all that makes a player a game changer in my opinion.  A game changer is a player the other teams must account for in a major way in there gm plan a player that opens it up for other teammates.  Milano plays well in our system and is a great fit for Mcd. But he is not a game changer yet. 

 

Fair enough. Kid always seems to be around the ball, that's why I think he has the potential to be really good.

[Rufridr101]

Beano has been here for one draft 

[dezertbill]

I have more confidence in this regime than any in the past when it comes to the Draft.

 

I expect top 5 rounds to either start or be competitive, and atleast 1 or 2 UDFA's making the team and an impact

[HOUSE]

Zay Jones is a rug pee'r,

Edited March 21, 2019 by HOUSE

[John from Riverside]

I think where a lot of the debate comes in is when did Beane actually start shotcalling the draft picks

 

Some ppl think it was 2 drafts ago and Whaley was just a maniquin

 

Some ppl thing that 2 years ago it was Whaley's draft

 

I would so...no matter what....the last 2 BILLS drafts have been excellent

[FeelingOnYouboty]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

I think people underrate the importance of good coaching and planning. You can't just scout and draft talent. You need a plan for what kinds of players you need for your scheme, and then you need to coach them up. Maybe if Matt Milano had been drafted by the Raiders he would be a backup instead of a future Pro Bowler. That's what sets this regime apart so far. They're creating an identity and finding players that fit, and then they're actually developing them.

 

Happy Days

[Seoulful Soul]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

My biggest question about the 2017 draft..

 

Who found Milano?

 

Hope that dude got a raise..

 

I love me some Milano!  Dude, with Edmunds, are the lynch pin of that defense.  Dude better not be allowed to get away ever!

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Well, being named a "starter" on a team that doesn't have a competent starter at that position isn't quite the same as being named the starter over a competent veteran who could be starter on most teams in the league.   Stephon Gilmore was gone before Tre White was drafted.  Cordy Glenn was injured in 2017 and then traded away in 2018, and when Dion Dawkins didn't have Richie Incognito helping him out in 2018, he sucked.  In 2018 Allen, Edmunds, and Teller had absolutely no viable competition to beat out, and in Allen's case, the Bills brain trust of McDermott and Beane made sure of that by trading away Taylor before the draft and McCarron before the regular while keeping Peterman on the roster.

 

 

I understood you perfectly.  You claimed that the Bills lacked talent before the arrival of McDermott and Beane, and that's simply untrue.  They had talent but chose to get rid of it rather than build on the foundation that they had.   So, the absence of Gilmore, Woods, Goodwin, Watkins, Brown, Glenn, Taylor, Dareus, etc and all the others are very much in play in any discussion of the McDermott-Beane regime.

 

Talent recognition is the major function of any team's GM or HC/GM combo, and at best, McDermott and Beane have done a mediocre job at best.  They shed good talent for nothing or next to nothing.  They have overpaid and/or totally missed on poor talent like Jones and Peterman.  They gamble on projects and apparently think that hard work and practice can somehow turn poor players into good ones when the talent simply isn't there.

 

If White beat out Gilmore for the starting job, THAT would be an accomplishment.  Beating out air ain't nothing to brag about.  If Dawkins beat out a healthy Glenn, then he's the real deal.  Beating air ain't nothing.  Allen beating out Taylor would be a big deal -- that's exactly what Mayfield did in Cleveland -- but beating out Nate Peterman is less than nothing.

 

 

What a hot take. I mean all time.  Glenn couldn't stay on the field and Dawkins wasn't awful last year he was pretty good while the interior was flat all time bad.  White is every bit as good as Gilmore.  They chose to shed later in the career large contract guys to get their guys in there and after two drafts we are looking very good. Lots of rookies are given their starting job because of draft position especially qbs so your argument is flawed.  They've put together a great secondary, very good couple young lbs in milano and edmunds and all around our defense is you know...near the top of the nfl but you dont mention that.  You can't expect a team just rebuild the entire roster in a year or two it takes a few years and that's what they're doing. Name another team that just nails all pro talent left and right? If teams hit on every pick they'd win a title every year.  Even the pats miss on talent but they hit on enough and bring in solid free agents to fill in the gaps.  

 

Oh and Taylor won the starting job over Mayfield but then Taylor lost the job week 2 or whatever it was. lol

[GreggTX]

I'm not hating on Beane, but it's been a mixed bag so far.

1. Whaley passed on Mahomes so I'm not blaming 'McBeane ' as some mistakenly do.

2. The jury is still very much out on both of last year's 1st round picks. They still have a very long way to go.

3. Day 3 and the UDFA's may, in the long run, outperform Allen and/or Edmunds. Not good.

4. Last year's FA crop didn't impress me much so I reserve judgement on this year's group.

[The Senator]

11 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 

Someone was talking about Cookie Gilchrist and the guy at the table misunderstood and thought they wanted Milano.

 

Yes, I believe we drafted him right from Pepperidge Farm

.

[mannc]

4 hours ago, blacklabel said:

 

If you think Mahomes would've had the same success here as he did in KC you're mistaken. 

 

 

This right here is the all-time dumbest argument in the history of TSW.  And I don't mean to pick on you, because I see lots of people make the same argument: "[Fill in name of perennial pro bowl player] would have sucked in Buffalo because [fill in excuse]." 

 

Totally unprovable and in this case, absolutely absurd.  Mahomes was the freaking league MVP in his first year as a starter!  So what if his numbers wouldn't have been exactly the same in Buffalo?  That means exactly zero.     

[chris heff]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think where a lot of the debate comes in is when did Beane actually start shotcalling the draft picks

 

Some ppl think it was 2 drafts ago and Whaley was just a maniquin

 

Some ppl thing that 2 years ago it was Whaley's draft

 

I would so...no matter what....the last 2 BILLS drafts have been excellent

I agree, but we would really have a story if Beane was running the Bills draft while still in the employ of the Panthers. Just kidding, I do believe that McDermott made the final call on the picks in 2017.

[blacklabel]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

This right here is the all-time dumbest argument in the history of TSW.  And I don't mean to pick on you, because I see lots of people make the same argument: "[Fill in name of perennial pro bowl player] would have sucked in Buffalo because [fill in excuse]." 

 

Totally unprovable and in this case, absolutely absurd.  Mahomes was the freaking league MVP in his first year as a starter!  So what if his numbers wouldn't have been exactly the same in Buffalo?  That means exactly zero.     

 

It ain't about his numbers, man. It's about the coaching and the supporting cast he has around him. Plus he sat and learned for a year behind Alex Smith. Then he steps into an offense coached by one of the smartest offensive minds ever, has Pro Bowl players at every skill position and a solid OL. Circumstances matter, that's all I'm saying. The circumstances in Buffalo would likely not have helped him reach the level of success he has in KC.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I dont consider Milano a game changer i consider him a borderline pro bowler.  Which is great for a 5th rd pk. He makes plays there's no doubt but that's not all that makes a player a game changer in my opinion.  A game changer is a player the other teams must account for in a major way in there gm plan a player that opens it up for other teammates.  Milano plays well in our system and is a great fit for Mcd. But he is not a game changer yet. 

By your defination there are literally like 10 players in the entire league that are game changers.

 

(hint.   A borderline pro bowl bowler IS a game changer....if they make plays in a game that affect the outcome of the game.....they are game changers.)

 

The question really is......can they be game changes consistantly and not every once in a great while?

[CBD]

14 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I know people will talk about Beane not being GM yet but him and McDermott have their fingerprints all over the 2017 draft.

 

Just off the bat , these drafts were 'Franchise Changing'. We're going to have 8-10 starters from these drafts entering week 1 of the upcoming season! And most these guys are high end starters. That's pretty amazing. 

 

Harry Phillips plays a key role and can only improve.

Siran Neal is okay depth but again , he can only get better.

 

The drafts have been good and have promise for the future. I would comment that in my opinion currently the only "high end" starter is Tre White. I would also comment that I like Phillips, maybe Neal less so, and this may just be a pet peeve of mine - but both, or any of the players you listed, can become much worse. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by CBend

[Bangarang]

I think it’s really dumb to try and give Beane credit for a draft where he was still employed by another team.

 

Do people really think he was sneaking around and feeding McD information?

 

The most logical and likely scenario is McD called the shots using the information Whaley and his staff put together.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Bangarang

[ngbills]

Lets not confuse playing or starting with a successful draft. Seriously go back and look through the drafts of the past. There are many Milano's, let alone a ton of Taron and Levi's. The 4-5 years before Milano - Ragland, P Brown, Alonso and Bradham. Pretty solid list. DB's during that time - Seymour, Darby, Gilmore, Brooks. When you create holes its easy to fill them with rookies and say we draft so well. 

 

You mention Dawkins and Teller - not earth shattering. Dawkins could turn into a good player or be a John Miller and lose his job, especially with all the signings. Zay, Croom and Foster could all see smaller roles next year and eventually gone. Not trying to be down but many of these guys played because the lack of talent more than  their own talent. Or WR were awful and have gotten better. Same for our TE and OL. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I think it’s really dumb to try and give Beane credit for a draft where he was still employed by another team.

 

Do people really think he was sneaking around and feeding McD information?

 

The most logical and likely scenario is McD called the shots using the information Whaley and his staff put together.

Entirely possible.

[Punching Bag]

14 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

My biggest question about the 2017 draft..

 

Who found Milano?

 

Hope that dude got a raise..

 

The scout who did report on him was fired.  Maybe he was one of the three who were rehired.

[Augie]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think where a lot of the debate comes in is when did Beane actually start shotcalling the draft picks

 

Some ppl think it was 2 drafts ago and Whaley was just a maniquin

 

Some ppl thing that 2 years ago it was Whaley's draft

 

I would so...no matter what....the last 2 BILLS drafts have been excellent

 

True!

 

Was that addition by subtraction.....just get Rex out of the room and things look up? 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Each new GM gets tons of love the first couple years..........everything was done to precision according to a master plan..........it's all roses.?

 

I remember when the Bills drafted Lynch, Poz and Edwards and a year later people were saying it might be the greatest Bills draft ever........Bill Walsh dubbed Trent the next Montana dontcha' know!

 

Doug Whaley was the golden child around here for a while..........pre-anointed, his ascension was eagerly awaited............people were fighting to give him credit for trading back before drafting his QB of the future and getting Kiko too......and then stealing Jerry Hughes.........he was THE MAN on TSW!

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[Albany,n.y.]

12 hours ago, gjv001 said:

I think Croom will be more than "depth". He could be a top 10 TE this season.

If the Bills go crazy & keep 10 TEs, then he'll be a top 10 TE on the team. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

I'm not hating on Beane, but it's been a mixed bag so far.

1. Whaley passed on Mahomes so I'm not blaming 'McBeane ' as some mistakenly do.

2. The jury is still very much out on both of last year's 1st round picks. They still have a very long way to go.

3. Day 3 and the UDFA's may, in the long run, outperform Allen and/or Edmunds. Not good.

4. Last year's FA crop didn't impress me much so I reserve judgement on this year's group.

.....who knows?...I'm still not sure if Whaley had the actual GM horsepower and final say....he was a personnel gopher IMO.......besides hindsight is a beautiful "I told you so" thing......how many posters frowned on Mahomes because he was from a leper like "Air Raid" background?...the landscape was littered with "NO Air Raid QB EVER makes it in the NFL" quotes....probably the SAME gang now spouting "I told you so" because of his year 2 accolades....

[ngbills]

34 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

If the Bills go crazy & keep 10 TEs, then he'll be a top 10 TE on the team. 

He will dominate. Nevermind he was undrafted and cut multiple times. This is the entertaining mindset around here at times. Random guys we have now are destined to be stars and better than anything in the past. Then fast forward a few years when they did nothing and its what did you expect Croom was terrible, player xyz who was also undrafted and cut multiple times is so much better because new gm is a genious. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think where a lot of the debate comes in is when did Beane actually start shotcalling the draft picks

 

Some ppl think it was 2 drafts ago and Whaley was just a maniquin

 

Some ppl thing that 2 years ago it was Whaley's draft

 

I would so...no matter what....the last 2 BILLS drafts have been excellent

 

There really isn't an actual debate.  Beans was hired after the 2017 draft.  Suggestions that he was in a shadow Bills war room are sad retellings of history.

 

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

 

It ain't about his numbers, man. It's about the coaching and the supporting cast he has around him. Plus he sat and learned for a year behind Alex Smith. Then he steps into an offense coached by one of the smartest offensive minds ever, has Pro Bowl players at every skill position and a solid OL. Circumstances matter, that's all I'm saying. The circumstances in Buffalo would likely not have helped him reach the level of success he has in KC.

 

What did he learn form Alex Smith?  How to improvise on the fly?  Sidearm crazy throws to thread the needle through the secondary or the LBs in the middle?  How to keep his passing yards under 4000?  TDs no more than 25 per year?  

 

Great talent is great talent--even on mediocre teams (see Andrew Luck).

52 minutes ago, ngbills said:

He will dominate. Nevermind he was undrafted and cut multiple times. This is the entertaining mindset around here at times. Random guys we have now are destined to be stars and better than anything in the past. Then fast forward a few years when they did nothing and its what did you expect Croom was terrible, player xyz who was also undrafted and cut multiple times is so much better because new gm is a genious. 

 

uhhh, what?

[PlayoffsPlease]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think it's pretty hard to make your case. Bills were 7-9 and 8-8 for the two years before those drafts, and they had crappy coaching except for Lynn in the second tear.  How bad could the talent have been?

And they went 9-7 and 6-10 the next two years.  All optimism for the Bills begins and ends with Josh Allen.  If He is hits stardom, Beane is a hero.  If he fails, the Bills just become the guys who traded the pick used for Mahomes. 

[mcdamit]

21 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

 

Actually....  it isn't even close and a false equivalency.  The Nix/Whaley saga is a "thing" because Whaley was the heir apparent to Nix and was working for the Bills in the capacity to influence the Bills' draft selections as Nix was being phased out.

 

Beane, on the other hand, was with a different competing NFL team (Panthers) in a capacity to influence their respective draft.  So not only were they on different teams, it would have highly "illegal" to do this type of "influence" and when eventually discovered Beane would have lost his career and he would have incurred the wrath of NFL sanctions (along with Buffalo). If people have learned ANYTHING about Beane, by now, it should be his professionalism and seemingly desire to do the right thing.

Yeah... seems that folks twist reality to fit their narrative as well to confirm their bias - and THIS topic comes up in an inordinate amount of times.

hhmm what i meant was we don;t know who picked the players Whaley or nix /or whaley /mcdermott .  We can assume the coach picked them but Whale's team did all the research, set the board ect.