PlayoffsPlease Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 To me, more wins. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I expect more from the RB than the WR. But football is a team sport. So what I expect is for them to do their part and hopefully everyone else does theirs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) You mean the 27th highest paid WR in the league. I actually expect a pretty solid season. 750 and 6-8TDs in the first year. He may exceed that depending on the Offense and the Oline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 McCoy - 100+ yards/gm (rushing & receiving) Brown - 2-3 deep attempts/gm (in addition to any other medium/short range plays), 8 TDs on the year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) I will start with WR - based upon Spotrac both Brown and Beasley are around 30th to 35th WR contracts in the league. So that is low end starter level - so what would I expect - at that level and price - I expect complimentary pieces that are going to make plays and keep the offense moving. I am not expecting 1500 yards and 100 catches from either. At that level we should be looking for 60 catches and maybe 750 to 1000 yards for Brown - maybe mid 15+ YPA and for Beasley probably 50-60 catches - maybe 600-750 yards and a bunch of 3rd down conversions. I do not consider John Brown a high priced piece based upon the recent WR contracts as he is paid as one of the lower starting guys in the league with additional FAs and contracts coming. Edited March 17, 2019 by Rochesterfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said: McCoy - 100+ yards/gm (rushing & receiving) Brown - 2-3 deep attempts/gm (in addition to any other medium/short range plays), 8 TDs on the year 8 isnt unthinkable but he isnt the only deep threat in this offense of which Allen already has chemistry with Foster. 8 is probably the max with 6 being more likely. Only time will tell. Him an Foster could be a real nightmare on crossing patterns and pick plays. Edited March 17, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'd expect the same level of performance if they were paid the league minimum or the highest salaries at their respective positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I think the question itself is meaningless. It's a team game, and who accumulates yards and points simply doesn't matter. Offensive total yards and total points and defensive total yards and total points are what matters. By far, the only individual stats that matter are the QBS stats. The relationship between a player's compensation and his stats is really, really pointless. If Shady gains 114 yards on the season and catches 12 passes, and if the Bills go 12-4, why Wil I care how much he was paid? It's a team game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 47 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think the question itself is meaningless. It's a team game, and who accumulates yards and points simply doesn't matter. Offensive total yards and total points and defensive total yards and total points are what matters. By far, the only individual stats that matter are the QBS stats. The relationship between a player's compensation and his stats is really, really pointless. If Shady gains 114 yards on the season and catches 12 passes, and if the Bills go 12-4, why Wil I care how much he was paid? It's a team game. If you read the initial post, you would realize that I 100% covered your point about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 There's really not anything McCoy can do this season to justify his contract, he's not that player anymore, and probably won't have enough touches to reach his former levels. But he can still have a very good year if he stays healthy, and I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) I'd hope McCoy can have a bounce back season and put up around 4.5 ypa on about 150 carries. John Brown should get 800+ yards with 5+ TD's if he can stay healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: 8 isnt unthinkable but he isnt the only deep threat in this offense of which Allen already has chemistry with Foster. 8 is probably the max with 6 being more likely. Only time will tell. Him an Foster could be a real nightmare on crossing patterns and pick plays. Can Brown & Allen hook up on the deep ball, we'll have to see. I think if Zay can get 7 TDs last year, Brown can get 8 this year. Zay hasn't been good either year he's been here. 176 balls have been thrown his way and he only has 83 catches. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Can Brown & Allen hook up on the deep ball, we'll have to see. I think if Zay can get 7 TDs last year, Brown can get 8 this year. Zay hasn't been good either year he's been here. 176 balls have been thrown his way and he only has 83 catches. ? This year is the year for him to show it. It can take 3 years for a college WR to adjust and develope. He has definitely gotten better as time has gone on. Really showed some flashes last season. Edited March 17, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 basic numbers for me on $9 million RB-1400 total yards and 12 tds-can be 900 rushing and 500 receiving or any combination but that makes $9 million a good investment. For a receiver it is harder for me to say because if John Brown is taking top off D and it allows Zay to go for 1200 yards he is worth it, but I expect John Brown to go for about 600 yds and 4 tds which I think will not be worth it-though I will gladly be wrong about Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: I'd hope McCoy can have a bounce back season and put up around 4.5 ypa on about 150 carries. John Brown should get 800+ yards with 5+ TD's if he can stay healthy. I’d like to see McCoy get 30-40 receptions as well.... out in created space preferably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Wins and losses tell the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: You mean the 27th highest paid WR in the league. I actually expect a pretty solid season. 750 and 6-8TDs in the first year. He may exceed that depending on the Offense and the Oline. I expect 600 yards and 4-5 TDs from Brown (3rd best season of his career) and 900 yards and 4-5 touchdowns from McCoy (Second best season in 5 years). Any more than that is unfair to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I expect 600 yards and 4-5 TDs from Brown (3rd best season of his career) and 900 yards and 4-5 touchdowns from McCoy (Second best season in 5 years). Any more than that is unfair to the players. That is a likely outcome as this offense will spread the ball around based on matchups. Had Flacco remained his QB last season I believe Browns numbers would have been much higher. Edited March 17, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 10 wins minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Super Bowl rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said: McCoy - 100+ yards/gm (rushing & receiving) Brown - 2-3 deep attempts/gm (in addition to any other medium/short range plays), 8 TDs on the year Wow, 100+ yards per game? You realize that's at least a 1600 yard season, right? That's a lot to expect from an older RB. I'll be happy if he gets 1000 yards this year, which is about 63 yards per game. 35 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: That is a likely outcome as this offense will spread the ball around based on matchups. Had Flacco remained his QB last season I believe Browns numbers would have been much higher. Yeah, Brown was having a good season until Flacco came out and the offense changed to a gimmicky run first offense. His numbers fell off a cliff after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: basic numbers for me on $9 million RB-1400 total yards and 12 tds-can be 900 rushing and 500 receiving or any combination but that makes $9 million a good investment. For a receiver it is harder for me to say because if John Brown is taking top off D and it allows Zay to go for 1200 yards he is worth it, but I expect John Brown to go for about 600 yds and 4 tds which I think will not be worth it-though I will gladly be wrong about Brown. 850 and 6 would be good for 27th WR if thats what ppl want to measure it buy. For me I just want him to do his part as that is all he can control. Edited March 17, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, MJS said: Wow, 100+ yards per game? You realize that's at least a 1600 yard season, right? That's a lot to expect from an older RB. I'll be happy if he gets 1000 yards this year, which is about 63 yards per game. Yeah, Brown was having a good season until Flacco came out and the offense changed to a gimmicky run first offense. His numbers fell off a cliff after that. Apparently McCoy must have an AllPro season to earn his 9 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 5 hours ago, MJS said: Wow, 100+ yards per game? You realize that's at least a 1600 yard season, right? That's a lot to expect from an older RB. I'll be happy if he gets 1000 yards this year, which is about 63 yards per game. Wow. You do realize I wrote 100+ yards per game rushing AND RECEIVING? Something like 70 rush, 30 receive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 11 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: I expect more from the RB than the WR. But football is a team sport. So what I expect is for them to do their part and hopefully everyone else does theirs. Stop being logical you’re ruining the thread ...,,, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Money well spent if the QB gets them the ball & the OL blocks for the QB & RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: Stop being logical you’re ruining the thread ...,,, Sorry I thought it was my week to be the reasonable one. I will go back to being overdramatic and unrealistic till tomorrow. If he even plays close to the value of that contract he should have 2000 yards and 40 TDs. If he doesnt it means we should have drafted Rosen and should fire everyone.?? Edited March 18, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 In this offense Brown should end up around 1000 yards and 10 tds. Give or take. A little more maybe a little less. Last year he was pacing that with Flacco under center. The Lamar Jackson Wing T killed his production. His best wr was with Carson Palmer who threw a good deep ball. Doubling down on Allen's strengths makes sense. I see no issue with Browns deal. Imo If larger deals were done, and Buffalo was closer to the cap shady would get the first call. They are going running back by committee. McCoy third down and passing back Gore short yardage. A rookie as future not so future feature back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 For $9 million, I hope we can start with a guy who doesn’t pee like a dog on the kickers net. How is the kicker supposed to feel good pulling his ball out of there? I think we will draft a RB round 3-4 who will get serious carries by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 shady has the 3rd highest RB cap hit in the league.....anything less than pro bowl is a bust. john brown has the 28th highest WR cap hit in the league......1000 yards & 10 TD's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Playoffs please...and 14-16 games played for each. We can re-evaluate their relative worth to the cause on or before this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 14 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) Helping Allen progress, that is the ultimate goal and both players can do that, Allen doesn't have to put the entire team on his back/arm. Shady and Gore should take some of the pressure off. John Brown is the veteran deep threat who's been doing it for quite some time now, like I said in another rant he was well on his way to putting up his best numbers ever as a pro until Flacco got injured. We have the deep threats in Foster/Brown and the guys catching all the underneath stuff in Beasley/Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 13 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: If you read the initial post, you would realize that I 100% covered your point about winning. Your post was about good performance for the investment. My post was about the pointlessness of that comparison. There is no stat that meaningfully captures the performance of players other than qbs. Nothing measures Beasley's route running or blocking, nothing measures Gore's pass protection or locker room presence. Even YP reception and YP carry aren't very useful measures of value. Putting dollar values on performance makes even less sense. 1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Helping Allen progress, that is the ultimate goal and both players can do that, Allen doesn't have to put the entire team on his back/arm. Shady and Gore should take some of the pressure off. John Brown is the veteran deep threat who's been doing it for quite some time now, like I said in another rant he was well on his way to putting up his best numbers ever as a pro until Flacco got injured. We have the deep threats in Foster/Brown and the guys catching all the underneath stuff in Beasley/Jones. Right. If Brown contributes meaningfully to Allen's success, then Brown was worth it regardless of his stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I will start with WR - based upon Spotrac both Brown and Beasley are around 30th to 35th WR contracts in the league. So that is low end starter level - so what would I expect - at that level and price - I expect complimentary pieces that are going to make plays and keep the offense moving. I am not expecting 1500 yards and 100 catches from either. At that level we should be looking for 60 catches and maybe 750 to 1000 yards for Brown - maybe mid 15+ YPA and for Beasley probably 50-60 catches - maybe 600-750 yards and a bunch of 3rd down conversions. I do not consider John Brown a high priced piece based upon the recent WR contracts as he is paid as one of the lower starting guys in the league with additional FAs and contracts 18 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) I think when it comes to Brown it's not just stats which I think will be reasonable. He'll get about 700yds and 6-8 tds. It's the attention he will command that can really be the difference for this offense. Edited March 18, 2019 by BillsFan1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 What performance metric did you demand last year from your 9 million dollar rb?? He was the highest paid rb in the entire league. Lets hope they kick ass this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 20 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The two high priced cogs in the Bills offensive machine are McCoy and John Brown. What level of performance will be considered good performances for the investment this year? I realize there are no substitutes for winning, so if the team goes 19-0, no one will care even if they are cut. Just a question on what would be considered good results for the investment. (I also realize McCoy is a sunk cost, but still what are people hoping for from him to consider his season a success? ) Depends on the QB and O-Line. $9 million is cheap as hell though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I want Brown to catch 90% or more of the balls thrown to him. Actually, I want all of our receivers to do that. I want Shady to stay healthy and get > 3.5 yards per carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 RBs: They better run the ‘damn ball’. WRs: They better catch the ‘damn ball’. It’s Monday morning, and I’ve got nothing...☹️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 It's all about winning, and whether those players are helping us do it. I couldn't care less about stats. If we load up on weapons, there is no way that every receiver is going to get 70+ receptions and 1000+ yards. I want John Brown and Robert Foster to force defenses to keep their safeties playing deep. Then Cole Beasley, Zay Jones (and maybe a rookie TE) start picking them apart underneath. When they adjust to the shorter passing game, we hit them with a deep shot. When they start bringing in more DBs to defend all the receiving weapons, we run them over with LeSean McCoy and Frank Gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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